BostonSilverTypeS

thanks for the good info IHC....will go with 2qt Redline Racing and 1qt of the lightweight at every Drain/Refill.....Or might just go with 100% Racing Redline with no lightweight at all since there is no firmer shift over the other

Inaccurate

The RedLine Lightweight is thin. Too thin?

However, I do run pure Lightweight. I am crazy enough and willing to take the risk. My main priority is performance at the risk of maybe longevity.

Even while I was researching ATF at the "Society of Automotive Engineers" website, I learned that having too thin ATF will cause severe wear on the gears. There are several SAE papers discussing this very issue of too thin ATF.

Development of the Fuel Saving Low Viscosity ATF (click here)
Advanced ATF Technology Meets Future Global OEM Needs (click here)

However, the RedLine Racing is too thick for my taste, Cst 10.

Below is your options to choice from. Listed from thinnest to thickest. Note that typical ATF (most common brands) are in the 7’s (7.1 – 7.9). For example, Mobil 1 Synthetic Multi-Vehicle Formula is 7.4.


cSt @ 100º C
---------------------
RedLine Lightweight = 4.9
Mixing 1 qt Racing + 2 qts Lightweight = 6.6
Typical ATF = 7'ish
Mixing 2 qts Racing + 1 qt Lightweight = 8.3
RedLine Racing = 10

chayos00

Good info, I'm debating now if I should go straight Type F or mix with Lightweight when I do my wife's car. Looks like I'm gonna try doing it when her next oil change is due, she's about half way there. So probably in another month or 2.

Maybe I will be the first to try doing 50/50 with the fluid changes.

I hate cars

As always, good unbiased info.

I'll be watching yours closely. It will be interesting to see if an outstanding base oil can overcome the viscosity loss.

I've also got a theory that Z1 when driven hard on a hot summer day probably gets as thin as the lightweight fluid and you don't have the great base oil there to protect it.

I believe the new Honda fluid that Z1 is supposed to be replaced with is going to be in the upper 5cSt range so who knows how this will play out. GM is already using a low 6cSt fluid (Dex VI).

You may just be on to something but I don't have the guts to go that far in my DD. I'm glad someone does.



Way off topic but I've got to leave azine for a few days, going to the Barret Jackson auction in Vegas.

I hate cars

Either will be fine. If you do a mix I would recommend the first drain and fill to be the regular racing fluid if you plan on spacing out the drain and fill intervals. If not it doesn't matter what order you do it in.

BostonSilverTypeS

Good Stuff....I'll do the mix of 2/1lightweight so 8.3 will do for now, also I'll be keeping an eye on how your trans is running over time and how running pure lightweight is working out over time, so far so good right?...If running pure works out then I will eventually change to pure racing lightweight as well or at least 2qt pure lightweight and 1qt racing....

08TLEE

ARGH! F*&king Amazon...first, the weekend turns my 2-day shipping into 5-day shipping...so today, I come home, and lo and behold, there on my porch, is a brand new case of...Redline Power Steering Fluid. Power Steering Fluid...Racing ATF...oh yeah, easy mistake to make, guys. They're like, right next to each other on the keyboard.

Fortunately, I was in a good mood...I don't know if it's positive ions from the rain that came through earlier or what, but the TL is running like a raped ape...I guess it's all relative, but, if I had held out for a Type-S, I might be dead by now. 3 months in, I still can't keep it under 80 on the highway, which I'm barely in the freakin' power band at that Radar detector is coming in handy...

*sigh* well, the packing slip assures me that "returns are easy!" so I guess I'm going to find out...hopefully they send FedEx out for pickup, I really don't have time to do the shipping shuffle. And I guess the Z1 gets a reprieve...a short one, I hope.

Inaccurate

Mine is still performing excellent.

The Racing fluid still brings a smile to my face.

The trans drain plug is the cleanest that I have ever seen it. The magnetic snub has zero metal stuck to it and very little grime on it. The least that I have ever seen since owning my car. And, I have drained my ATF approx 21 times since owning my car. So, I have a lot of experience looking at that drain plug and what it attracts.

Thanks for the good narrative.

Have you thought about maybe keeping the PS fluid. I use Amsoil Full Synthetic PS....... well, until that runs out. I will then get the RedLine PS fluid.

My vote.... I do get a vote, right ...... is to keep it. Below is a link that you will maybe find timely

A-104: DIY-Power Steering Fluid Flush (click here)

I hate cars

I would like to try Redline power steering fluid but that's one area you have to be careful on. I've run Amsoil and liked it but the Honda PS fluid is nearly twice as thick as most PS fluids and has a different add pack. I believe it has a lot of ZDDP or just zinc, not sure. This is one area that can cause leaks and issues if the wrong fluid is used. I haven't looked in a long time but hopefully the Redline is listed as being compatable with Honda PS.

antlive

so after reading this thread 5 times, I believe the conclusion is if you want a quicker shift with less comfort (feeling the shift) then moved to the mixture of racing and lightweight ATF....if you want to use a better ATF just move to the D4 application and keep somewhat the shift comfort...but all in all move off Z1

I hate cars

In the beginning it was based on assumption that the racing fluid would give harsh shifts. After running it for a while we now know it takes very, very little comfort away if any. I highly recommend skipping the D4 and going with the racing even if you're stock and never go past the speed limit. You can still barely tell when it shits without looking at the tach or listening to the sound. Shifts are harsher with worn out Z1 and old switches than with the racing fluid.

The #1 reason myself and I assume Inaccurate recommend the racing is there is much less wear on the clutches when it shifts and the shift harshness is not really increased so the downside is pretty much nothing but the upside is a trans that will last a lot longer.

antlive

well it seems if you guys have run this in your cars for at least 6 months with no issues...how many miles you guys racked up since? I have purchased the switches and I will be changing the ATF and you guys have been very informative about switching from Z1..I did the 3x3 Z1 around 60k and now I have 111k...

Inaccurate

I now have 7 months and 9,800 miles of running the Lightweight Racing Type-F ATF

After all of this time, I am still amazed by how my trans will shift with Racing ATF

My car does *not* shift like a new TL. It hasn't since I drained that crappy Z1 out of my trans. I would be embarrassed to say that my car shifts like new. The new TL sucked golf balls better than it shifted gears with the Z1 fluid.

I bought my 2006 TL new in January 2006.

I had just 14,700 miles on Z1.

I had 39,786 miles on Mobil1 Synthetic ATF.

I have 9,800 miles on Lightweight RedLine Racing ATF.

At 14,700 miles on the odometer on March 17 2006, I drained out the oem Z1. Replaced it with Mobil1 Synthetic ATF. I did a 3-quart drain for four times. Yes, 12 quarts of Mobil1 Synthetic ATF. The trans had much snappier, quick shifts with the Mobil1 Synthetic ATF than the oem Z1.

For every 3,500 miles thereafter, I did a single 3-quart drain of the ATF every time I changed the engine oil. Thus, from 14,700 odometer to 54,486 odometer, I did 13 refills of my trans with Mobil1 Synthetic ATF.

At 54,486 odometer on March 2 2010, I drained out the Mobil1 and refilled with RedLine Lightweight Racing ATF. From 54,486 odometer to 64,300 odometer, I have done 4 refills of my trans with RedLine Racing ATF. The trans shifts gears so quickly that it sounds like a sports bike shifting gears.

Lazer187

iTrader: (1)

Is it possible if it can be heard from inside the cabin, that you do a audio clip of your car accelerating and shifting through the gears. I, and i assume among others would love to hear how quickly your car does shift. I would love for my car to shift like a sports bike. I at 17k did a complete fluid flush and added Mobil 1 syn. atf. and that made a huge difference! i would be amazed at what difference it would be to go from Mobil 1 syn to your Redline.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

Im using amsoil super shift type F fluid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H76IUErIj2U

I hate cars

I like that vid. A stock TL with type F will be slightly snappier too. It's amazing yours shifts better than stock even at nearly double the hp.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

Why is that?

I hate cars

More power makes shifts slightly slower. The clutches will have an easier time engaging with 258hp than your 400+ at the crank.

Inaccurate

I gave up on using videos to communicate the shifting quickness. Below is a video of before I used Racing ATF and another video of after switching to Racing ATF. Before RedLine, I was using Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF.

The videos illustrate no difference in the shifting speed. However in real life, I perceive a big difference in the shifting speed. Thus, I quit using videos to illustrate the shifting quickness



Below is a video with Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBLiaq6j32E




Below is a video with RedLine Racing ATF

Note – The 1-2 shift at 20 seconds into the video sounds sloppy because I was spinning all thru first gear. Although the TCS was not flashing at the top of 1st gear, it was indeed still spinning all thru first and making the shift sound sloppy.

I recommend using headphones/ ear phones to listen the audio. If so, please ignore the background sound in the first 20 seconds. That is a train in the background, not the sound of my car idling.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UxL95AUFoU

08TLEE

Sure, you get a vote...and that's not a bad idea, but...a case seems a bit excessive. The poster in the linked thread required 26 oz., and they talk about service intervals of ~60K. I'm at 20K right now...

Guess it depends on work, right now I'm doing 90 miles a day (opposite direction from the predominant traffic pattern, thankfully!) but hope that doesn't last...karma for the 2 years I worked at home I guess, and the 8 or 9 before that where I was doing 10-20 round trip...the long drive was one of the big reasons I finally jumped on the TL.

So, if I decrease the interval, use it in the van, get the Camaro back on the road...yeah, maybe a case isn't so much after all, I might do that!

Thanks for the link, BTW, that's a keeper...I bought a Service Manual, but it's nice to have it electronically & just run it off the printer as needed, no worries if it gets greased, oiled, ATF'd or PSF'd, as the case (no pun intended) may be... Hoping to get my garage built next year

08TLEE

LOL, let me guess...you always run on <1 gallon of gas...part of the Diet?

08TLEE

Hmmm....okay, that's something I'll have to check then, would the compatibility list come from Honda or Redline? And thanks!

Inaccurate

08TLEE,

I need to retract my advice (vote) to you. Earlier today, "I Hate Cars" cautioned against using the RedLine PS fluid in our cars. It would be best to heed his warning. Below is his post.


Regarding the <1 gal of gasoline - Don't worry..... We can go another 300 miles on that !!!

Right, part of the diet. Sorta reminds me of that Seinfeld episode were Kramer tries to see how far his car will go past "E".

Inaccurate

It would come from RedLine. I checked the RedLine website. Redline does *not* specifically state that their PS fluid can be used in Honda/Acura.

Below is from RedLine's website -


RED LINE POWER STEERING FLUID satisfies the service fill requirements of most auto manufacturers and can be used where the manufacturer calls for any automatic transmission fluid such as Dexron®, Dexron II-D®, II-E®, or Dexron III®, Ford Type-F, Mercon, or M2C138-CJ such as required by Ford, AMC, Toyota, Nissan, Lexus, Infiniti, Jaguar, VW, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, SAAB, Subaru, Volvo, Porsche, Mitsubishi, Mazda, and many others.

This fluid also satisfies power steering units requiring GM PN 1050017 or 1052884 (Spec Number 9985010), Chrysler Spec Number 5931, and Ford Spec Number M2C33-F. It also satisfies the hydraulic specifications of Denison HF-O, Vickers vane pumps, and Sundstrand piston pumps.

Disbe

iTrader: (1)

Innacurate, even though you warned about the train in the background in the first 20 secs of that second vid I still thought to myself "Why is his timing so off, is he about to hit the NOS? lol"

Inaccurate

Eight months ago when I called RedLine and talked with Dave, I asked him if the lightweight fluid was too thin to safely use in a daily driven car.

Dave’s answer was exactly as you stated. Dave said that after a regular atf has sheared down that the lightweight would be a comparable viscosity. Not to mention the superior quality of the base and additives of the lightweight to compensate for the low viscosity.

08TLEE

Thanks...I replied to your post, then saw his I think. I appreciate the follow-up, though.

LOL, I actually cringe watching that, like *I'm* the one who's about to run out of gas...

Yeah, I guess Honda's like "OHMY*GOD* don't EVER EVER EVER use ANY kind of EVIL NON-OEM fluid, EVER!"

Cool, I hadn't had time to check it out...again, I appreciate both the advice, and the follow-up.

Guess the case will go back, I can't see keeping it just for the van ('04 Sienna, I have to double-check but I think it's Dex-III, as suggested by Redline's list).

Unless I can make up my damn mind about the Camaro...I want to keep it, but it's going to be a money-pit, and I don't have the mad wrenching skills to dig in to the top end. *sigh* I can't wait for the future, when I can download knowledge straight to my brain... Thanks again for your help, and for taking the time to follow-up.

antlive

I went to go do this with the red line racing and I had a conversation with the oil dealer...he suggested that I not use the red line racing if I weren't going to be running car on the track....he said its harder on the transmission and will eventually damage the trans....I went the the 3x3 z1 to Amsoil Universal ATF....everything feels great...time will tell the longevity....I still have to do the oil pressure switches...I had a little problem with trying to replace them...Can someone post a DIY for Type S, I don't believe there is one.

I hate cars

You should not have listened. 99% of so called "experts" are ignorant when it comes to ATFs. Your transmission would only last longer if you had used the Type F. I'm going on 75,000 miles with a "non recommended" fluid.

I would bet he has never tried it in a TL nor could he back up his statement with how Redline could possibly damage the trans. Ask him about the relationship of the DBW and non FM fluid or what the common failure point of the 5at is and how the fluid could affect it. I don't know why people have the constant urge to make blanket statements and give out piss poor advice with no knowledge of the subject.

antlive

I'll ask him, next time I go there when I'll change my fluid again...

I hate cars

Nice. I would love to hear what he has to say.

What type of place was this?

The reason it bothers me so bad is he talked you out of something that would have made your trans last longer and the advice was based on no facts. Anytime I'm not sure, I qualify my statement with "I think" or "I believe" but it's bad practice to state an opinion as a fact.

antlive

Synthetic oil dealer, http://www.synlubes.com/

chayos00

Hey I've got to ask, why is everyone changing out their tranny pressure switches? I have never noticed an issue with my wife's TL with the shifting, are people over zealous about changing them or what?

I hate cars

There's a big thread explaining it all.

Inaccurate

Very interesting conversation with my transmission builder on the TL (click here)

Mkarl

I posted my test results there of the old and new sensors along with pictures of the sensor cut open.

The pressure switches solved two slight annoyances with the trans that I felt were out of place

BTW - Love you write ups and the work you and Inaccurate put into inspiring everyone with a brain to question long held beliefs.
Your post on racing fluid has given me more insight into how the TCU-ECU control this transmission.

08TLEE

I don't think it's any different between Type S and base; I think the issue is that the '07 and '08 models got the trans that was previously used only in the RL. Either earlier in this thread, or in the other thread (see Inaccurate's post above), someone posted service manual pages and/or diagrams of both trannies; the '07-'08s have three pressure switches as opposed to two, and they are in different locations. Also, it seems that our filters can't be changed without dropping the trans.

It remains to be seen whether the pressure switches in the '07-'08s go bad as quickly or at the same rate as the '04-'06 models; going through both threads, I don't think anyone with the RL trans has done it and stated that it improved shifting as with the older ones; but it could just be that:

a) no one has done it yet; or
b) no one whose switches have gone bad has done it yet.

I guess time (and mileage) will tell...

libert69

iTrader: (7)

I came across this post and got a good laugh. How times have changed



https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...1&postcount=35

Inaccurate

That's cold hearted Bert

Whatever you, don't read post #31 in that thread

I hate cars

Yep. I bought into the Kool aid too. There was a time when I thought Z1 had LESS FM. How times have changed lol.