Good to hear. The SC is a god choice for more boost. How is the tranny? Anything out of the ordinary?

 

No. The tranny is fine. I have experienced the "surging" issue but it's not that big of a deal. Some of the SC guys rewired around the Comptech ACM directly to the stock ECU to get around it. I think Josh didn't do this as it may end up doing more harm than good.

 

That surging thing, what is the feeling? I can't picture it for some reason.

 

For me it was from the knock sensor retarding timing. The slight surging is the DBW trying to figure out what you want to do. For me atleast I take it pretty easy on the streets, so when the ECU see's me go from 14% throttle to 70-80% it thinks that must be a mistake and only gives me 40%.

If I am going to go from 20% to 80-100% or want to smoke someone from a light, I blip the throttle to warn the ECU we are about to go hi speed.

So depending on how you drive the ECU may need some warning.

 

Finally someone that gets it.

On my turbo car the difference is drastic. From 14psi on crap CA 91 octane to 28psi with meth. My charge temps are actually below ambient at 28psi. I estimate about 20% of my fuel at WOT is coming from the meth and that pretty much goes along with the fact that I'm around 720ish at the crank on 60lb injectors, I'm 20% short on fuel at 80% DC with those injectors.

With the primative "tuning" that was offered with the Comptech blower, methanol should've been included to keep these things from blowing up.

 

I wish I had a supercharged Car.

 

...thats how i ended up breaking the ring lands twice... first time on 4 & 6, and 2nd time on 4,5,6 pistons... with the stock boost (4-5 psi) . Thats when i got tired and just got forged lower compression (9.5:1) pistons and gas nitrided rings, (now up to 9-10 psi)

and at the same time running water/meth injection

I dont know how they're running that turbo they made at over 9 psi, on stock setup with emanage...i know for a fact the ring lands on the TL are very weak...and the domed pistons dont like boost either, as it forces the pressure towards the outer edge of the pistons forcing its way through the ring lands.

I just have a bad feeling it wont last... i wouldn't be surprised if some ppl are driving around with broken ring lands...a cracked piston can sometimes still hold compression (experienced it) and you wouldn't even know, untill ur pushing boost through it again, which in that case relieves the pressure...but most wouldn't even notice, they're too busy listening to the whine of the SC...

but oh well. what else can i say...

cheers:::

 

I've broken a forged piston, broken ringland between the top and second rings and about 2 inches of the crown gone near the edge. It had a bad miss but as soon as it went under boost it fired back up and ran surprisngly well. I laughed when I pulled it apart and the second ringland fell into my hand.

The key to making it live is to keep it out of detonation. Every time it pings cylinder pressures can triple and that's what kills parts. Most people are surprised at what stock engines will take with a conservative tune. The first time my GN pings, I'm likely going to drive over the crank lol.

 

It's almost like a stalling sensation where it's not getting enough gas and just putters along. You ever start off in first gear and it's seems like there not enough gas and so you add more and then there's too much so you back off creating that back and forth jerking...only not nearly as much jerking but just enough to notice it.

 

So Opel & I hate cars...I was thinking about adding a 50/50 meth kit. The shop that I did the dyno at seemed pretty knowledgeable and was saying that it's actually safer for the car as it cools the intake temperature.

My concerns are (1) I remember reading some posts saying that most of the people who had engine failure was because they added the meth kit - from my understanding of how it works, my guess is that something else must have happened??? and (2) my air/fuel ration right now is pretty spot on. If I do add the meth kit, would this cause me to go lean and therefore need to use emanage or some other kit to add fuel?

 

i hear ya man, thats just how it is....

i had a funny experience also....the spark plugs supplied from CT along with the SC kit, ended up breaking, the insulator inside, which insulates the electrode, broke on the same cylinders where the pistons broke, exposing the electrode completely... which made me think, i ran the car with faulty plugs, which lead to pre-ignition. at the same time, the plugs supplied from CT were 1 step colder than the stock plugs...(denso IK22).... after this, i ended up getting NGK 2 steps colder.

 

Meth increases reliability by preventing detonation. There was some speculation a long time ago that it was the cause of the procat failures but that was disproven a long time ago. My reason for suggesting it is for reliability, not for extra power.

Meth is fuel so it will richen the mixture slightly. You typically want the car a few points on the rich side on the dyno because once you put a real load on it on the street it will lean out just a little.

I highly suggest a 100% mixure. I spent many years experimenting and there's no doubt the most power comes from straight meth and it protects just as well as a mix.

 

just like "i hate cars" states... its a safety device, there's absolutely no harm from it, unless ur spraying it into the intake charge as if ur watering ur garden.

dont look at it as a way to make power. look at it as a way to keep ur motor from blowing....remember...on the dyno it may seem like air/fuel ration is good and safe...but on the street, all it takes is a split sec of detonating at 6500 rpm... the CT SC is a hairdrier,

as far as the mixture... "i hate cars" suggests 100% meth, and that really depends on the application as far as im concerned... if ur only running stock boost...id recommend 50/50 mix of meth and distilled water... with a 275 or 375 mil nozzle, based on my dyno tests....it added plenty of fuel, and also being that water has better cooling capabilities, it lowerd intake air temps by a lot...

methanol will not cause u to go lean...it does the opposite... it does 2 things, add fuel and cool intake charge temps

straight meth also is "dangerous stuff" last thing u want is a leak of 100% methanol.

so do your research and do as u wish...i can only recommend and share my experience...

as far as recommending this... hands down...for any boosted car, turbo or SC... its not an expensive mod either and great great benefits.

picture this.... 91 octane pump gas + methanol injected into charged air= 116 octane fuel mixing with air into ur combusting chamber.... that my friend, has the near benefits of "race fuel"

 

We actually tried to get my father's car to detonate when it had a built 4.5L engine on the stand waiting to go in. It took 32psi boost and a lot of timing to get it to finally detonate with the very large shot of meth we were running on that car.

Opel is right, a meth and water mix is ok at stock boost levels. I get caught up in the "most power" thing and meth provided the most power on my car but I have it tuned to the ragged edge right now. You would likely never see the difference on the TL.

One difference I noticed is the charge air is definately cooler with pure meth. The water has more cooling capacity but it doesn't have time to fully evaporate in the intake tract like meth does. Water does most of it's job in the combustion chamber. The problem I ran into when injecting very large amounts is water doesn't burn and you end up losing power but that's only in large quantities.

 

Thanks for the feedback. This is great info.

Safety would be the main reason I would get the meth kit. I'm pretty much sold on the kit but do you think I would need to get a management system after I add the meth kit? I don't think I can afford to do both at once. I may be able to spring for the emanage in another 5-6 months or so. Not sure if this matters but the AFR is around 12.5 at around 3.2k rpms and starts to lean out from there. It's at 11.6 at around 5.3k rpms and goes up slightly to 11.8 at 6.4 rpms

From your comments, it seems like I can let it run a little rich and not worry about it too much? Am i reading it right?

 

If you use water methanol as a safety device to prevent detonation then you don't really need to tune for it. Of course, if you want to make more power, then you need to tune for it. The ECU will adapt somewhat to the water meth and might advance timing a bit but not much. Your AF ratios seem fine. I wouldn't do more than a 50/50 mix on the stock 4-5 psi.

 

Thanks Josh

 

11.6 is richer than 12.5. The number is parts of air per one part of fuel. So your AF isn't that bad at all.

 

^^LOL...my bad...I was thinking the lower the number the leaner.

So do you think I should be ok adding a 50/50 Meth kit without a tune? What's the risk of running a little rich?

 

u will be fine....the risk is that, from time to time, you might smell ur exhaust lol

 

Hey, I like your avatar. Now I can see your car. Looks nice.

Tim

 

What aprox would the S/C take off the 1/4 mile?

 

lol, thanks..... ill post some pics soon

 

I've decided to add a meth kit for safety and reliability reasons...for now. I say for now because I want the SC to run cooler to minimize the risk of something happening. I'm not planning on buying an emanage or any of the other kits out there to tune the car so I'll be running a little rich.

I understand that the cooler air will result in a little more horsepower but if I'm running rich, I will be losing HP as well. It's likely that I may even lose more than I gain resulting in a net loss in HP but again my intentions now are for safety/reliability reasons!

The shop was recommending 100% meth. I know I Hate Cars has always recommended 100% but it seems like most people are going with 50/50. What are the pros/cons going 100% meth vs. 50/50?

 

because 50/50 is cheaper.

 

Depends how much boost ur running...and ur AFR numbers that will determine wether you should use straight 100% meth (btw it can only be 99% lol) or 50/50... If you need to depend on meth to bring ur AFR to a safe level, then pure meth is the way to go, because if you need to inject so much so ur AFR gets to safe levels, then doing so with a 50/50 mix would increase the amount of water being injected...and u don't wanna soak ur combustion chamber with too much water.. But if ur running 4-5 psi, or 6..anything along those numbers where a 225-375 mil/min nozzle would take care of ur AFR...then by all means, go 50/50...

Water has great cooling capabilties, and it will do wonders in the combustion chamber temps...and with those size nozzles, its not in exessive amounts... Its also safer to run that kinda mix in ur car vs.pure meth...pure meth is very flameable, and the last thing u want is a leak somewhere (didn't mean to scare you lol)

If u wanna mix ur own, you can buy pure meth and mix it with DISTILLED water... Don't just use tap water... Not even "poland spring" lol

You can also buy pre-mixed ready to use 50/50... Such as Boost Juice from Snow Performance...they go for like $30-4 gallons...but shipping is just as much.. Or use alternative sources..

I run 50/50 with a 370 mil/min nozzle... My AFR is fine with this setup..

Hope this helps with anyones decisions.

 

^^^Thanks Opel. I'll talk to the shop on Monday some more about this. I have another one and a half weeks to make my decision before they install it.

 

Very good info here, i just ran my 04 tl auto at the track and dyno, results.

1/4 mile - 14.986 at 94.67 r/t- .006
dyno hp-232.35 torque-204.42

i went from a 95 Trans Am with hp- 362 torque-342 1/4 mile- 13.2 to the TL
I love the car, i think the numbers are good, but what numbers are you guys getting in the 1/4 mile with the supercharger?
my 04 TL has fujita cold air,atlp j-pipe and 3rd cat delete, i also by-passed the coolant from the throttle body.
also have any of you guys sprayed nos on stock motor? what power gains 1/4 mile gains have you gotten.
how about supercharged and nos? anyone?

 

talk about amazing weather. i ran my car when it was 80 degrees and 100% humidity, and got slower times LOL but a higher trap speed

 

Before the SC, my best time was 15.283 at 94.13. That was my first run ever down the 1/4 and I had my traction control ON and my buddy in the car! Funny thing is, I ran w/o traction control after that and my friend wasn't in the car but I couldn't beat that time. I really need to work on my launching!

I've only been that one time a couple years ago but I'm itching to go back and see what the SC can do. Maybe in a month or two.

 

agreed! im one of these..
now im lookin into a new motor cuz my motor is toast..
but i will for sure be running meth on the next one as well as emanage or ultimate blue..this is a must..from what i've now experienced...

i know most people think ( as i did myself) that the charger is just a simple bolt on and go thing..actually,u NEED to tune it properly..or yes, you like most of us SC'd guys, will have a blown motor in 6 months..took me just over a yr to blow mine...

but good luck

 

I have had my blower on for 2 yrs and 26K with no problems. I am not sure how you drive but, seems to me like people are beating the shit out of the car and wondering why they have blown the engine.

The tl was not built or designed to be boosted and is very hi compression to make the most of the fuel it uses N/A.
With the extra power the car now makes it is easy to get carryed away and that is what people did. Staying in boost for minutes at a time, going WOT and a hot day for miles at triple digit speeds, and pushing the car way too hard.

Just because you paid $5000 for the blower and you drive a Honda doesn't mean you can beat on it like a N/A honda.

My car is a hi performance luxury car and that is how I treat it, like the sweetest car I have ever been in, much less owned.

 

Give it time, yours will be blown too.

Driving style does have something to do with it but it's minor.

The problem is the fact that it pings like crazy. These things would never break but would wear out normally over time if the car was tuned and didn't detonate with the blower. The supercharged TLs aren't making enough power to break anything from power alone.

Cylinder pressures can quadruple when it detonates. You're putting the equivilent of 800+hp on the internals when it pings.

I've been though this with my other car. I didn't know how to tune, blew it up in the 400hp range. Now, 15 years later on the same stock parts it's making over 600 and staying together.

 

If you do a search, you'll see where I predicted these things blowing up over a year ago when I saw what type of "management" they used.

 

so what kind of management do you suggest?
im gettin my new motor put in in about 2 and half weeks..so i need to find a management system by then, as well as meth kit..this way i'll be safe while i build my blown motor..which by the way is now dead...
it finally went today..well still runs and drives..but wont go over 4k rpm and sound like its running on a dead cyl

 

Got to run but meth by itself at stock boost levels is fine.

 

in all actuallity, our motors are blowing because this whole kit was nothing but a poor design...while its true the tl wasnt meant to be boosted, doesnt mean it cant. if properly done it can actually take the abuse, but ive mentioned this too many times, comptech took a very short route, and this whole thing missed its #1 component, A/F/T control! its bad enough that the blower is a giant hair drier to begin with, and to add to that, the ACM is just a complete radioshack-built contoller... and i mean come onnnnn, a fucking crushed fuel pressure regulator??? thats a fucking jokeeee...how about a goddamn $100 walbro pump? i dont wanna hear, the tl's ECU is hard to crack, and blah blah blah...it was built and programmed somehow, so it CAN be cracked!!!! but no "lets just give these guys a matchbox to control the a/f and timing"

after most of us shell out $4000-5000, you expect to just babysit the car? whats the point of the investment? just so you could have it, and u know u have it, and thats satisfying enough, knowing??? i know this for a fact, that a lot of ppl dont even push their cars hard enough...they creep through 2 gears, and thats the end of it.... those are the ones that haven't blown yet... and dont forget the fact that, no car runs the same, even if theyre built the same! but this setup is way off being RIGHT.

u mention staying in boost continuously for minutes....how that even possible? with NA setup, and few bolt ons...it would take me about 19-20 seconds to hit 130 mph from a dead stop, now imagine with a SC.

u also mention that ur car is a "high performance luxury sedan"....while i agree with "luxury sedan"... its nowhere near high performance... but since u view it that way...then who wouldnt try and take advantage of thier "high performance" car

not bashing on you... but again... the SC was a poor design, period!!!

 

ill tell u why it wont go over 4k rpm... low oil pressure...that sets off the safety of avoiding you from reving higher with lack of sufficient oil... thats bcs whatever pistons are cracked, you're loosing all pressure through there, blowing it down into the oil pan...i bet ur burning crazy oil.... ur vtec is now set at 4000 rpm with the ACM, ...vtec activation is attempted at 4000 rpm and with lack of sufficient oil pressure, it fails, which sets off the high reving safety... sometimes, when you push it hard, and the oil pressure is so low that, when vtec tries to switch over, it fails miserably, setting off every possible code..ABS,VSA, CEL, that stops you from reving past 3000 completely, and also from idle to 3000 it climbs so slow, you could spin the motor faster by hand!

dont ask how i know this but this is a safety feature on the car, hardly anyone knows

 

i totally agree with the ACM being a POS. i think its very emarrasing for a co. with comptechs reputation, to put out an incomplete and poorly r&d'd SC kit just to turn a quick profit. that ACM is very scary and i cringed the few days i was forced to install it while my PnP harness was being repaired for broken pin connectors. i new about its shortcomings from the getgo, which is why i decided to tune my charger kit from the day i installed it.

however, i do give comptech credit in courting hondata for a possible reflash for the boosted guys,, but after a year and 1/2 or so of trying, they both decided to tank the project. it just wasnt worth it for hondata to continue anymore. their are a few members here that were fortunate to have their cars tested, but after looking at their charts, i believe my a/f tune even with the lack of timing and vtec control had better results. ive preached to people here about the importance of a good a/f tune for some time now and the emanage ultimate was proven for that. timing control isnt that big a deal for only 4psi and the vtec can be lowered using the ACM. now we have another option in the FI/C which is an all in one EMS and nobody is jumping on the bandwagon either

like IHC says, its a ticking time bomb that will undoubtledly consume your engine sooner or later. whats another 600-800 bucks invested for something that will not only protect your investment, but give you much performance/reliability

 

So for a stock 4 psi boost from the SC, just need the meth kit (Snow)? Or BOTH meth kit and some sort of emanage (ie, AEM or Greddy)?

Let say the meth kit is not required, and just going with the emanage. So basically the emanage will replace the ACM...what kind of tunning is required? Just the A/F? Or everything that the ACM was "intended" to do...ie, dropping the VTECH rpm, and other things that I can't remember.