Project Water Methanol Injection
#121
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^^^ I hate you bro....just when the list of mods are coming to an end, someone somewhere adds something LOL....
Inaccurate get your butt in here....we need to know your impressions on WMI
Inaccurate get your butt in here....we need to know your impressions on WMI
#122
Safety Car
^ It has me thinking. That much is for sure.
For normal people that do not have a weight phobia like me, I HIGHLY recommend jumping on this mod.
I have for years thought that WMI on the N/A TL would kick ass. But for me, this morphed into the NMI, which got cancelled due to my weight phobia.
For normal people that do not have a weight phobia like me, I HIGHLY recommend jumping on this mod.
I have for years thought that WMI on the N/A TL would kick ass. But for me, this morphed into the NMI, which got cancelled due to my weight phobia.
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Inaccurate (04-12-2012)
#126
Safety Car
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There are different views on this, mine is just my opinion but I don't really see the need for it. As long as you get the distribution good by the time it hits the plenum I think there are advantages of having the one nozzle upstream. There's more of a cooling effect. Methanol flashes off pretty fast so I'm not sure how far it needs to be from the intake valves to have the full cooling effect. My guess is not far.
I think that if the intake manifold does not distribute air evenly like some suggest the Tl's manifold does, I would think you end up with more meth to the leaner cylinders which could be good.
I can see the point of a direct port nitrous system, you have fuel and air (nitrous) being injected so it's very precise plus it's a little safer. I run enough meth to put a nice chill on the throttlebody and intake manifold. It's very cool to the touch on a hot day, down in the 50s at times. I was running about 20% methanol as my supplemental fuel and due to the rear 2 cylinders running lean (on the GN) I chose to keep the kit as is with the nozzle upstream of the TB.
That's just my opinion, I really haven't done a lot of research on it. Maybe Inaccurate knows more on the subject.
I think that if the intake manifold does not distribute air evenly like some suggest the Tl's manifold does, I would think you end up with more meth to the leaner cylinders which could be good.
I can see the point of a direct port nitrous system, you have fuel and air (nitrous) being injected so it's very precise plus it's a little safer. I run enough meth to put a nice chill on the throttlebody and intake manifold. It's very cool to the touch on a hot day, down in the 50s at times. I was running about 20% methanol as my supplemental fuel and due to the rear 2 cylinders running lean (on the GN) I chose to keep the kit as is with the nozzle upstream of the TB.
That's just my opinion, I really haven't done a lot of research on it. Maybe Inaccurate knows more on the subject.
#127
I'm wondering if this system will be able to completely fix the J series heatsoaking issues. Do you think WMI will lower the IATs comparably to using the 3G TL-S or 4G TL SHAWD magnesium manifold along with the Ultimate Cooling Mod?
I'm excited to see your results once the summer heat gets here. Will you be using a USB OBD2 reader?
I'm excited to see your results once the summer heat gets here. Will you be using a USB OBD2 reader?
#128
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^^^ bro you dont need WMI
Ultimate cooling mods and Coolant Bypass makes my 05 Manifold and TB soooo cool to touch....on a 80degree weather day i can stick my tongue on the TB after an hour of city driving !!!
Ultimate cooling mods and Coolant Bypass makes my 05 Manifold and TB soooo cool to touch....on a 80degree weather day i can stick my tongue on the TB after an hour of city driving !!!
#129
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the past few days its been 90 in CA. The under hood temp is so hot it vaporize the water/meth after the fast acting valve. WTF? lol
I also swap back to 87 and the car drives the same like it was when I used 91. The 2.5 gallon tank last about 2-3 fill up.
I am monitor it through the obdII using the ELM327 obd2 reader with some software on my laptop. I don't remember what it is called off the top of my head. not the best way to monitor it but its still pretty good.
I also swap back to 87 and the car drives the same like it was when I used 91. The 2.5 gallon tank last about 2-3 fill up.
I am monitor it through the obdII using the ELM327 obd2 reader with some software on my laptop. I don't remember what it is called off the top of my head. not the best way to monitor it but its still pretty good.
#131
Safety Car
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the past few days its been 90 in CA. The under hood temp is so hot it vaporize the water/meth after the fast acting valve. WTF? lol
I also swap back to 87 and the car drives the same like it was when I used 91. The 2.5 gallon tank last about 2-3 fill up.
I am monitor it through the obdII using the ELM327 obd2 reader with some software on my laptop. I don't remember what it is called off the top of my head. not the best way to monitor it but its still pretty good.
I also swap back to 87 and the car drives the same like it was when I used 91. The 2.5 gallon tank last about 2-3 fill up.
I am monitor it through the obdII using the ELM327 obd2 reader with some software on my laptop. I don't remember what it is called off the top of my head. not the best way to monitor it but its still pretty good.
Are you running a mix or straight meth?
#132
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^ I am determining this when I open the hood of the car and checking the lines. you can see steam/ condensation in the line. lol
I am running mix.
The valve is about 1 foot away from the nozzle. I am going to flush the line and see if it happens again.
I am running mix.
The valve is about 1 foot away from the nozzle. I am going to flush the line and see if it happens again.
#133
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^^^ condensation in the line or on the line ???
if its in the line, you are prolly vaporizing the meth and what you have left is the water LOL....
if its on the line, then thats good news....means that the water meth line is cold so the heat/vapors of the engine is condensation on the line.....
if its in the line, you are prolly vaporizing the meth and what you have left is the water LOL....
if its on the line, then thats good news....means that the water meth line is cold so the heat/vapors of the engine is condensation on the line.....
#137
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sweet pix KN....
since you used the windshield water reservoir, i bet you must have changed the lid on it....just making sure you did.....
since you used the windshield water reservoir, i bet you must have changed the lid on it....just making sure you did.....
#138
Team Owner
Very nice, clean work KN.
#141
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looks awesome, kurt.
i'm going to have to start looking into this setup after i get everything tuned and functional on my end.
couple of n00b questions.
1. effective on N/A and why?
2. total cost for setup?
3. do i need to get re-tuned afterwards?
i'm going to have to start looking into this setup after i get everything tuned and functional on my end.
couple of n00b questions.
1. effective on N/A and why?
2. total cost for setup?
3. do i need to get re-tuned afterwards?
#142
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i would just use a balloon (cough NOT condom cough) and make sure to make it air tight.....that is just me thow.....
read the thread
#143
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^or, perhaps, just maybe...you could answer the 3 questions and save me from reading through 4 pages of stuff.
just a thought
just a thought
#144
Safety Car
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The main advantage in any application is octane boost. The secondary benefit is cooling.
With an MS3 setup, you would need the fast acting valve, a pump, tank, lines and fittings and you'll also need to build buffer circuits for the pump and valve.
FAV - $140
Pump - $200 (max)
Fittings and such depends on plastic vs SS braided.
Nozzle - $20(?)
Electronics - $10
Tank - $50 (?)
Level switch - $30
I'm sure I am forgetting something.
You can log the results and then you need to decide if you want to retune to push the timings where you need the WMI. Or just run being a bit rich but enjoy the results of lower charge temps and higher octane.
Live Tune can tweak the A/F but I "Think" the timing is a separate beast. Haven't gotten that far in my reading.
This is where you can take advantage of table switching
With an MS3 setup, you would need the fast acting valve, a pump, tank, lines and fittings and you'll also need to build buffer circuits for the pump and valve.
FAV - $140
Pump - $200 (max)
Fittings and such depends on plastic vs SS braided.
Nozzle - $20(?)
Electronics - $10
Tank - $50 (?)
Level switch - $30
I'm sure I am forgetting something.
You can log the results and then you need to decide if you want to retune to push the timings where you need the WMI. Or just run being a bit rich but enjoy the results of lower charge temps and higher octane.
Live Tune can tweak the A/F but I "Think" the timing is a separate beast. Haven't gotten that far in my reading.
This is where you can take advantage of table switching
Last edited by KN_TL; 04-26-2012 at 09:52 AM.
#145
Whats up with RDX owners?
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From what Ive gathered:
1) Yes, but not as much as a boosted engine. It reduces IATs and raises octane levels.
2) Havent looked into it, yet.
3) For the most gains, yes, Id retune.
EDIT - Or just read the above post
1) Yes, but not as much as a boosted engine. It reduces IATs and raises octane levels.
2) Havent looked into it, yet.
3) For the most gains, yes, Id retune.
EDIT - Or just read the above post
#146
Safety Car
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Unless I come up with a recovery or closed loop system, I don't think it can be completely sealed because it's gravity fed.
The difference in boiling point vs water is 149 vs 212. So will evaporate about as much as twice as fast as water (VERY Rough estimate). It being outside the engine bay I would think be fairly low temps except in the dead heat of summer. So I don't think I need to worry about it.
The difference in boiling point vs water is 149 vs 212. So will evaporate about as much as twice as fast as water (VERY Rough estimate). It being outside the engine bay I would think be fairly low temps except in the dead heat of summer. So I don't think I need to worry about it.
Last edited by KN_TL; 04-26-2012 at 09:54 AM.
#147
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Aaron....i would only do this mod if I was in Texas or running boost or running higher CR or had a ton of cash.....
#148
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I need to run a compression check. I accidently Messed up the car yesterday. I was purging the lines and I forgot to remove the jumper from test mode. It kept spraying at 100% and the engine sucked a little too much in. Best way to describe it would be when your doing seafoam and you pour it a little too much, and the engine gets mad and wants to die. I turned off the car right away and pulled all the plug and cranked. Nothing shot out. Then Open the IM. There was no pool of water in the plenum, but there was some in the are where the bolts were, this probably saved my motor since all 6 of them were almost fulled with water. *this also answer anyone question of whether or not all the cylinder gets an equal share. Yes they do cuz all of the areas were equally filled.*Then I put the car back together. Seem okay, but I am going to be safe and drive the car like a granny before I have the compression checked to see if I mess things up.... *cross finger, I hope now* I also hope that since its not 100% water and that the fluid was 50% methanol and that the car was idling should have minimum damage. I hope.
Moral of the story. Check once, twice, and three time. When your out for more power than there is a higher chance of damage.
Moral of the story. Check once, twice, and three time. When your out for more power than there is a higher chance of damage.
Last edited by thisaznboi88; 04-26-2012 at 07:45 PM.
#149
Team Owner
I need to run a compression check. I accidently Messed up the car yesterday. I was purging the lines and I forgot to remove the jumper from test mode. It kept spraying at 100% and the engine sucked a little too much in. Best way to describe it would be when your doing seafoam and you pour it a little too much, and the engine gets mad and wants to die. I turned off the car right away and pulled all the plug and cranked. Nothing shot out. Then Open the IM. There was no pool of water in the plenum, but there was some in the are where the bolts were, this probably saved my motor since all 6 of them were almost fulled with water. *this also answer anyone question of whether or not all the cylinder gets an equal share. Yes they do cuz all of the areas were equally filled.*Then I put the car back together. Seem okay, but I am going to be safe and drive the car like a granny before I have the compression checked to see if I mess things up.... *cross finger, I hope now* I also hope that since its not 100% water and that the fluid was 50% methanol and that the car was idling should have minimum damage. I hope.
Moral of the story. Check once, twice, and three time. When your out for more power than there is a higher chance of damage.
Moral of the story. Check once, twice, and three time. When your out for more power than there is a higher chance of damage.
So again, absolutely nothing to worry about. I wouldn't have shut the engine down, leaving it running and allowing any puddles (there probably weren't any of significant size) evaporate before giving it throttle would be best. At least you got a visual to show that the meth is making it to all cylinders.
#150
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Thank you the the reassurance. I was totally freaken out yesterday. lol I was like shit I am not ready for a j36 build just yet.
But I am doing a compression test anyways just to make sure, and my car has about 90k on it now.
One thing that I notice when I pulled the spark and IM. They were very clean. No PCV or ERG crap in the IM. All I could see was bare metal. But on the P2R tb spacer there is a little bit of corrosion where the metal wasn't powder coated. It was a whitish residue.
But I am doing a compression test anyways just to make sure, and my car has about 90k on it now.
One thing that I notice when I pulled the spark and IM. They were very clean. No PCV or ERG crap in the IM. All I could see was bare metal. But on the P2R tb spacer there is a little bit of corrosion where the metal wasn't powder coated. It was a whitish residue.
#151
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PHEW !!!
close call eh.....am glad you posted to caution all of us buddy....
close call eh.....am glad you posted to caution all of us buddy....
#152
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yeah I was scared as hell yesterday. lol it also didn't help that I swap back to .6mm to see if I could get it work. Honestly for my j30a5 application N/A l believe .5mm is the way to go for now. So maybe people with a 3.2L or 3.5L can try .6mm and up.
#153
Safety Car
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Well I decided that I wanted my windshield washer function back so I removed my pump and re-plumbed the windshield washer pump.
Took Inaccurate's advice and went to US Plastics for the bottles, Howerton for the remote fill and DigiKey for the level sensors.
Now I just need to see if I can fit the 2.5 gallon and if not, going with the 6qt tank.
Took Inaccurate's advice and went to US Plastics for the bottles, Howerton for the remote fill and DigiKey for the level sensors.
Now I just need to see if I can fit the 2.5 gallon and if not, going with the 6qt tank.
#154
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SICK update KN !!!
#156
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I suggest you use the longer bottle because the water slosh around a lot with the rectangular one. Its going to be a bitch when you need it to spray meth and it doesn't spray since the water slosh to the other side.
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Inaccurate (05-04-2012)
#157
Safety Car
Highly recommend a tall slender shape like pictured below to control slosh and preventing exposing the outlet.
It is best to lap the mouth of the US Plastics tank. The sealing surface is not completely true (level). The untrue surface could allow a minuscule amount of methanol vapors and liquid to escape. The lapping will ensure a good sealing surface for the cap. To lap the tank, tape a piece of fine sandpaper (400 or 600 grit) onto a flat surface (glass or marble) and slide the mouth across the sandpaper.
The best bulkhead AN fitting by far is the MagnaFuel AN Bulkhead Fitting PN# MP-3014 (click here). It is double the price of the typical brands. But, I took a chance and ordered one to check it out. It is designed great because it uses a sophisticated o-ring design that in molded onto the metal washer. If I need to order another #8 bulkhead, it will be this MagnaFuel brand. The one that I did order is the bulkhead that you see in the bottom of my fuel cell (purple color).
In the pic above - This shows where the vent is located along the exterior of the car. The vent is located in the recessed area for the shock absorber. I realize that there is a small chance for dirt/grit to find it's way into the fuel cell. However, I am taking a calculated chance that this won't be an issue. There will be a fuel filter on the high pressure side of the pump to catch any debris. If I am wrong about the fuel cell staying clean, I will be buying a replacement pump and installing a wire mesh on the vent bulkhead.
A stripe down the center of the fuel cell was left unpainted to allow the fluid level to be seen from outside of the tank.
To mount fittings, I advise anyone to not use the raised bosses on the US Plastics tanks. The bosses are a nice idea, but poorly executed. On every boss, there is molding flash along the center. The molding flash creates a leak-prone surface for fittings. Furthermore, the backside (inside surface of tank) of all bosses has an extremely irregular surface. Again, creating a leak-prone surface for any AN bulkhead fitting. It is much easier to get a great sealing surface along most flat areas on the tank.
PARTS LIST & PRICES
Aeroquip AN Flare Adapter PN# FBM3155 (click here) = $23 x 2 = $46
Aeroquip AN Flare Adapter PN# FBM3156 (click here) = $19 x 2 = $38
Earls Performance AN Plug PN# 580606ERL (click here) = $6
Earls Performance AN to NPT Adapter Fitting PN# AT981608ERL (click here) = $5
Earls Performance AN to NPT Adapter Fitting PN# AT981666ERL (click here) = $8
Fragola Performance Systems P.T.F.E Hose Assembly PN# 370096 (click here) = $56
Fragola Performance Systems P.T.F.E Hose Assembly PN# 380012 (click here) = $26
Fragola Performance Systems P.T.F.E Hose Assembly PN# 382030 (click here) = $42
MagnaFuel AN Bulkhead Fitting PN# MP-3014 (click here) = $25
Russell Performance Fuel Cell Bulkhead Fitting PN# 670860 (click here) = $13 x 2 = $26
Last edited by Inaccurate; 05-04-2012 at 10:53 PM.
#160
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I have this tank since I hate refilling. its 2.25 gallon and last me 2-3 full tank of gas.
it still slosh even though it has a sump. Its only slump at the very end of the corner. I have that small square edge pointing towards the rear of the car so it doesn't suck in air when I accelerate. I had it mounted horizontally and that really messed with the fluid level sensor.
it still slosh even though it has a sump. Its only slump at the very end of the corner. I have that small square edge pointing towards the rear of the car so it doesn't suck in air when I accelerate. I had it mounted horizontally and that really messed with the fluid level sensor.
Last edited by thisaznboi88; 05-06-2012 at 09:15 PM.