I hate cars

I think I am going to read the full thing again tonight. I guess my reasoning behind not doing some of the mods is that the car is so bad when it gets hot, something is wrong with it. Pull your ebrake up until it almost locks the rear tires and drive around. That's pretty close to how the car feels in the summer. In the winter, I've bumped into other TLs and I've somehow won every race lol. So the car runs right in the winter. I guess eliminating the trigger to the problem is pretty useful.

Inaccurate

IHC,

The only post that you really need to read is the opening post of the UCM thread. For your level of problem, I would love to see you try the full version (hence why you I don't want you to read the other post in that thread regarding the bastardized UCM (aka Semi-UCM)). Try the full version just as a form of troubleshooting if nothing else.


How do I nicely say "Do the full version or stay home"?

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

Here some more update. Damn there is a major difference in power when the methanol kicks in. I have it set to trigger at 20% fuel injector pulse. It was set between the 2nd and 3rd tick line. I am using a .5mm nozzle. I didn't play with the gain yet, but I think the car could use some more water/meth. Run 50/50 mixture if you want the best of both world. Car is using 91 OCT.

First of all the car feels faster and has more tq. Before it would feel like its making a lot of noise, but the response want a little bit slow. Especially when it goes into VTEC is sounds fucken Awesome, but it wasn't super fast. But now its just like o shit my ass is pushed back into the seat

test video


line to the p2r spacer. *P2R spacer threads were shit. Someone obiouvly doesn't know how to properly thread a 1/8 NPT size hole. I had to use my tap and die set to retread the hole. This is the second time a P2R product as cause me issue. Anyways, I am running it without the white thermal gasket so there is some clearance issue with the Nozzle/hose hitting the control unit on the TB.




Here is where I mounted the fast acting valve



Here is where I ran the line from the tank to


Here is where my control box for the W/M is. I will be tucking it behind the glove box.


Okay so here is my theory on why the car feels faster. First cooler IAT, secondly higher Octane level which reduces knock. Thus preventing timing from being pulled. Thirdly when the mist goes into the cylinder it expands after compression and helps push the piston back down, and lastly lower Exhaust Gas Temperature.

All these in combination work with the car ECU to achieve optimum parameters so that the car can and will run at its full potential. The ECU is smart and knows if you full one parameter is can look up the other sensor and see if it matches up. If it doesn't it detune things. For example trimming fuel only with the Apexi Neo. now if you trick the system as a whole. The car will be like hmm okay I guess it true. Safe to run full timing

I hate cars

Glad to see it works. I'll probably be transferring my meth kit over very soon or maybe buying a new one.

It's likely a few things... Cooler IAT, no detonation, IAT sensor seeing the cooler charge.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

^ thanks. yeah I am really impressed with this unit. *sorry for the grammar error, I was in a rush*

I wish I took better video tho, but I didn't want to use up all the water/meth and stuff.

I still need to rewire the 12v since I have it on a power source that is always on, and I need to mount my switch.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

It looks to me like the injector is behind the IAT sensor, so it shouldn't be effected. You could check it with a scanner to see, but I think the IAT sensor is the black box on top of the TB and in front of the methanol injector.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

^ nope you are wrong. The injector is in front of the IAT sensor. It is will always be behind the injector regardless if its a 3.2 or 3.5IM. The only difference is the distance. The 3.2 IAT will only be 2-3 away from the injector, the 3.5L im has about 6in between the injector. So it has more time to cool the intake charge. However, the newer acura and honda have it in the intake.

the black box on top of the TB is the MAP sensor. IAT is the one with the green and red wire on the side of the IM

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Nice, I guess on my car it is so close I thought it was part of the TB.

gwiffer

iTrader: (7)

I like your progress so far!

Do you think the injected mix is reaching all of the cylinders uniformly?

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

I am going to say no since it is injecting pretty close to where it splits off. So cylinder 1 & 4 are not getting as much as 3&6. I wish I could put it further down the intake so that it can mix more with the air.

Still trying to find a good point for it since I want it to spray the max amount while not bogging down the engine because it put out the flame and also for all the molecule of water that gets sucked in. Tht means less air can occupy the same space. I need to find the balance. Since for a N/A car the engine can only take in a set amount of air. Whereas a supercharged or turbocharged car can take In a great amount

I hate cars

Once you hit the point where you start losing power, change the mixture using less water than meth if your system will allow it. Power should come back.

I just looked at mine, it's a no go for the TL. I would have to order another nozzle. I forgot what a huge shot I was running, this would stall the engine the second it came on. Time to start looking at another kit I guess but even if it only brings summer performance back to that of a normal TL it would be worth it.

Looking forward to your progress, especially at what point it starts to bog. The NA tuning is interesting, look at it this way, if you ever have an intake backfire, at least it's not going to be a compressed air/meth mixture that's going to blow the lid off the intake manifold.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

I rather just run 50/50 that way if I can't find 100% methanol I can use the winter washer fluid since I am moving to the east coast. I also can't store 100% methanol since I will be moving into a dorm again. lol

From what I have read most people tune it to where the engine starts to bog down and they back it off. However, the proper way to do it would be on a dyno.

I hate cars

Even on a dyno you'll find there's more than one way to set it up. Roughly 20% of my fuel is from the methanol injection and there were tradeoffs during tuning. More boost/more meth always made more power but once the turbo started running out of efficiency around 31-32psi running more meth showed more torque especially in the lower range and a slight loss of hp. Or said another way, once boost was static, I had to choose between more hp or more torque.

I saw the same trend when we were tuning my friend's CL65 AMG Mercedes. While it's a turbo car, the boost isn't readily adjustable so the tuning is somewhat similar to NA. We could gain torque from a larger shot, up to 65lbs at the wheels but lose about 15 peak hp or go for the hp and lose the torque. The weird thing about methanol is it will make more torque with a larger shot up to a point even without turning boost up. For the first time in my life I went with the hp because the car is traction limited below 65mph.

This is one case where the dyno might come in handy in order to know what's going on. If it reshapes the powerband, the butt dyno is no longer accurate lol. If it gains a lot of low end torque it's going to feel a lot quicker and it might or might not actually be quicker. Some of it will be determined by the way the ECU reacts to the meth shot especially if it tries to compensate by altering ST FT.

I'm not saying there's a right or a wrong way of setting it up, trial and error and personal preference are usually the deciding factors. I personally wouldn't bother going to the dyno but my standards are lower, I would be happy if it just drove normal on a 100 degree day. However, 100% meth will always make more power.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

haha yeah. I am super new to this so I am kinda making it up as I go along. Not too much info on w/m for NA cars.

gwiffer

iTrader: (7)

Ever think about direct port injection? You're always messing around with the runners...you could plumb some nozzles in no problem. It would probably be bad if a leak formed under the manifold, though.

Is there a filter anywhere in the system now to prevent the nozzle from getting clogged?

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

the filter is in the tank. There is no filter in the nozzle like the other company because there shouldn't be any crap inside the lines in the first place. lol

Never though about direct port injectors. Going to cost too much money. I already spend cost to 700 bucks on this project.

540 for the kit + 60 for the tank + 31 for the meth + 3 bucks for 3 gallon of DI + msc stuff like drill bits and stuff.

I hate cars

Direct port meth injection is not necessary, especially in this application. 20% of my fuel was meth. If it was not distributed evenly or if it failed at 30psi boost, I'm in trouble. If anything, my application would have needed direct port for the more precise metering. This particular TL with a very small shot of meth that's not relied on to keep the engine together is fine as is. If the intake manifold has uneven distribution of air, it will have unequal distribution of meth as well. If you have one lean cylinder that flows more air than the rest, it will bring more meth with it as well, injecting the way he does it which is a good thing. The main worry would be getting it into the split evenly and you should be good from there.

gwiffer

iTrader: (7)

^Do you think mounting the single nozzle before the TB and in the intake tubing would help at all?

Would the meth damage the TB?

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

^ I think it would help alot with the mixture since its further down the flow. So it can mix with the air more and potentially give a lower IAT reading.

It won't hurt the TB unless your run 100% meth. Methanol is highly corrosive to aluminium. This is why I don't plan to run higher then a 50/50 mixture.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...4221708AANLnjN

I hate cars

Corrosion is not a concern in meth injection. I've run 100% for years and never any corrosion. Even in engines that run on pure methanol, corrosion isn't really an issue, at least not in the intake tract. Oil must be changed sooner though. You wouldn't want to run aluminum fittings for your meth kit or to leave aluminum in direct contact with meth for long periods of time. In the intake tract, it flashes off nearly instantly and is a non issue. Some people argue that a water mix can increase the rate of corrosion.

Inaccurate

I agree. I have researched this topic (pure methanol corroding aluminum) fairly well via google searches. The only cases of methanol harming aluminum always involved having the methanol being stagnant (not used) for a prolonged period of time. As long as the system is used on a regular basis, causing fresh pure methanol to flow thru the system, the aluminum will not corrode,

TRIOD3SIGNS

OK, I think Im just about sold, I understand what this is for and my only concern is placement. I have 2 kids that ride in the back, and am not willing to risk any kind of methanol poisoning. For the last 4 years of owning the car, I have never used the windshield washer fluid. Is this a feasible tank for the methanol? and if so, could I use the AEM V2s extra hose nipple spot for the injector. As shown in this pic. (just below left of the sticker) BTW not my pic, I have a base TL

I hate cars

Roger, where have you been?

That nipple would work fine.

Winshield reservior is fine as well. Back in the day, many of the early kits were made to tap into the factory reservior. Many of the ones for GNs actually come with a new factory reservior with the fitting already installed. Make sure to buy one of the good kits with braided lines and good materials that will give you years of leak free, trouble free operation. I suggest alkycontrol.com.

PS, have you grown the pony tail back yet?

TRIOD3SIGNS

Been busy growing out my tail. Braided & ready for you straight from my a$$ hairs

Now that the glorious tears of joy have dried from your face, lets get back to the topic. Alkycontrol lists a custom kit but I am assuming I wont need the tank. (PS I havnt called for price yet) What is the best way of tapping into the WW reservoir tank. And of course your going to help me install it right?

BTW, RAD thread thisaznboi88, perfect for the Cen-Cal summer heat.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

That nice boost saved my ass today. Fucken Dodge ram didn't know how to merge. Almost merged into my car. SO I smash vtec and barely got away. I need better tires the Hankook evo 12 sucks in the rain. I spin them for a stop... thats with 70% life on them.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

sub'd

will go home and read the thread

FCVadi

iTrader: (3)

I've pushed my former Conti DWS in the rait really well.. before those twires I would be very grandma like but with the DWS I felt like I just cut through any water on the ground.. weird part is sometimes I felt like I had better control in the water than on dry surface.. I am guessing for Cali you can use just the Conti DW.. I almost got that for my new set of wheels

also if you are going to the East Coast for school and just want one set of tires i cannot say enough abou the Conti DWS.. well worth it.. truly is the best set of all season tires I have owned.. I am trying out a set of General GMAX right now (conti owns them).. just want to know if they are good or not compared to the DWS

ok folks, sorry for going off topic

onto the topic, what about if you put your battery in the trunk and place the tank where the battery is now in the engine bay?

I hate cars

Contrary to what most people think, max performance summer tires usually offer the best traction in the rain. Unless you're going through really deep stuff all the time where you need a more specialized tire, summer tires do a great job in the rain. Even my NT05s do extremely well but unfortunately with the shallow tread depth I keep speeds reasonable in standing water. If the road is just wet without standing water, it makes you feel like you could go racing in the rain.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

I used my windshield washer bottle for my tank by bending a piece of 16ga flat steel and fit it just in front of the tank to mount the pump. Used to have pictures but lost them on photobucket and can't figure out where I put them locally.

Matt,

What do you think about multiport injection for someone like me? I want to move to using the Megasquirt with the fast acting valve as used here. But wondering if going multiport would be worth the effort and cost.

Inaccurate

Sorry to bring this topic up again. But, I ran across this just now and thought some readers might be interested -

Health Hazards of methanol (click here)

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

Thanks for the suggesiton. I am actually looking at those tires, G-max, and 4poxies for my new wheel set up.


I need to check my tire pressure. Cuz I know they are suppose to be good in the rain, but it was really annoying spinning tires and freaking out the VSA on the car.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

Ken great great thread....just went thro it....

I might be doing this soon....will be using the windshield washer reservoir for the tank, will be using the MS3 to control the spray and finally the nozzles will go in my custom air intake....

i am thinking of changing couple things thow....instead of one .6mm nozzle why not two 0.3 nozzle spraying at an angle....prolly get better atomization....

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

I was planing to use the wiper fluid however on the accord there are not a lot of places I can put it on. The surface is not complete flat and the tank is really really small. Maybe 3qt? Instead I would suggest you put a tank under your hood and relocated the battery in the trunk like someone suggested.

I only put it in the trunk since I want to pass visual inspection.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ aaahhh....

am also thinking about getting a braille battery....i know it occupies less spacer so might try to fit it in there....well we will see....will only do this is the MS3 can control the WMI....

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

It probably can but you can't get the basic kit. You will need this kit.

http://howertonengineering.com/produ...ection-system/

its 700 bucks + shipping and without the tank.

call and ask

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ might as well get what you got and sell the tank + controller.....

but this will have to wait for a little bit....

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

Cuz the one I got does not have a failsafe, and there is no tank. I can turn it off, turn it off, do the adjustment, and when the meth runs slow it turns off. But it won't tell your ECU that it has ran out. So I don't know how important that will be to your application. I am not tuning my car to the water/methanol.

I hate cars

Not too important in your application. In a turbo application, especially one where it relies on the meth as a supplemental fuel, it can be a disaster when it runs out. I have a wall of blown head gaskets to prove it lol.

Interestingly, I ran the wire for my low meth light to the factory dash cluster. GM did extensive water and water/meth injection testing. They never used it but there's a warning light for low meth and a trouble code in the ECU for the system. I tapped into that light so it looks factory when it's low.

I hate cars

There are different views on this, mine is just my opinion but I don't really see the need for it. As long as you get the distribution good by the time it hits the plenum I think there are advantages of having the one nozzle upstream. There's more of a cooling effect. Methanol flashes off pretty fast so I'm not sure how far it needs to be from the intake valves to have the full cooling effect. My guess is not far.

I think that if the intake manifold does not distribute air evenly like some suggest the Tl's manifold does, I would think you end up with more meth to the leaner cylinders which could be good.

I can see the point of a direct port nitrous system, you have fuel and air (nitrous) being injected so it's very precise plus it's a little safer. I run enough meth to put a nice chill on the throttlebody and intake manifold. It's very cool to the touch on a hot day, down in the 50s at times. I was running about 20% methanol as my supplemental fuel and due to the rear 2 cylinders running lean (on the GN) I chose to keep the kit as is with the nozzle upstream of the TB.

That's just my opinion, I really haven't done a lot of research on it. Maybe Inaccurate knows more on the subject.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

Took the car out for another test run on private road. Damn Soo much tq steer now. lol