How "aggressive" would you have to be driving to make this happen? If the end link did pop out, what would be the result? Thanks...

 

Interesting... jmbnova has the Comptech bar too eh? I hear what your saying now. The stiffer bar, by doing it's job, transfers the force to the endlinks. The endlinks now are the weak link. That stinks...
It doesn't matter how stiff your bar is... if your endlinks are not upgraded you'll realize little benefit as the links will fail when you push too hard.

 

I have been autocrossing my car for a year now with no problems whatsoever and probably turn harder in most of those runs that most turn ever push it out on the open road....no end link trouble here yet... And I am talking pushing it to the absolute limit to where shit is sliding, front end pushing through the turns....everything torqued and leaning BIG time. I am running a CT sway and the normal bushings that came with it w/ same end links.

 

Anyone know of Endlink upgrades for the TL?

 

I am putting my energy bar on tomorrow, i have never heard of having the end links pop out before.. Will be keeping on eye on it def. though

desper

 

I have No experience with a RSB in the TL. However, I do have experience with Rancho race suspension that I used in my younger days. And, what Kennedy is saying is TRUE in a general sense. This happened to my car with the STIFF AS HELL Rancho. After about four years, the bracket tore right off of the frame. The car's frame expereinced metal fatigue where the mount bolted to the frame. The Rancho mount was designed good and beefy. However, that force got transfered to the car frame. The car frame could not handle it after several years, leading to metal fatigue (cracked).

 

The fact is...the car needs an upgraded FRONT swaybar. (hear they are NOT fun to change in this car and quite involved) The car pushes through the corners so bad at high speeds....I almost wonder if getting overly stiff at the rear would only make this worse? (just theorizing a bit) I was going to upgrade my tires to the Toyo R-888 tires and somebody in the know the other day was recommending I change only the fronts and run the Yokohamas on the rear still as he stated this would loosen up the rear end a bit more to help bring it around the corners better. I was gonna do all four...but he says...no...on your car...only do the fronts....it will grab in the front better then and the rear will swing around like you are wanting it to on the autocross and help the front not to push into the corner so bad. Still thinking that one out...not sure this guy is on track there...but he swears he can prove it to me and has done it before?

 

how about using a wider tires in the front? it's quite a common tunning method in japan...

 

The problem is not with the CT sway bar it is the Progress sway bar. I'm wondering if the type S has beefier end links?

 

Thats a good idea Lee....and wouldnt take much more than going to a dealer and checking underneath on a sunday when they are closed!! That or I guess we could check the part # and see if its the same. Yes...I sounds like this is just on the Progress....must just be too stiff for the end-links...I see what you guys are saying.

 

Somebody else just mentioned that same method....I might check into this...but would how much more width can we get under a 3G TL front end? Can we get a 10" wide rim on there without rubbing issues? Never checked/noticed any others specs to see if anybody else was running a 10" wide wheel...is it possible?

 

Yeah there are a few things which might be going on

a) thicker bar is stiffer
b) the stiffer setting on the progress bar is higher up and closer together, 'pulling them inwards more'

the combination of stiffness + tautness might be a little much for end links designed for the oem bars. Dennis was showing me an endlink he got somewhere which had a ball & socket design that could not possibly pop out. Too bad he cant remember or find where he got it from.

btw, he mentioned that he only saw this end link problem on cars that were dropped, so in addtion to the above factors we have

c) addtional stress from lowered suspension directly absorbed by the rsb + end links instead of by the suspension

 

I am going to talk with Progress on Monday to see what they think. I am sure their R&D team considered this but we will find out further. Also the Type S shares the same end links as all the 3rd gen TL's.

 

Actually that's not good advice Mike.
Most REAL performance FWD cars (that autocross) run a smaller or NO front sway bar to reduce understeer. Upgrading the front bar will give the car a much stiffer (on rails feel), but in a turn it will understeer like bitch. This really is one instance of bigger isn't better.

You are correct in that you have to lower the front subframe to replace the bar. Had to do the same on my MKIV VW. I ordered a set of Energy Suspensions 27mm poly bushings, and I'm gonna try and get them in without dropping the subframe. the poly bushing will be all that i think the front bar will need "ungrade wise.

http://www.houseofthud.com/cartech/swaybars.htm
All of this trickery applies to a FWD car too, and since the front tires share all of the motive AND most of lateral traction (because most of the weight is in front), all the things that happen with big bars at either end are even more extreme. A big front bar stabilizes the body lean more but also creates a lot more understeer, and may make the inside front tire spin madly under power in a corner. A big rear bar can't give you back much lateral grip up front, but it can give you back some motive traction. Basically lettting you accelerate out of the turn, even when the front end is sliding pretty badly.

 

Excellent article! Thanks! Gonna cross post that one on my autocross site we are running....good info there! Fact is....you should copy that entire page and make a new post in this section with that info Kennedy....and also request RonA put a link to it in the 3G garage afterwards. I think that info is so good...I would do it myself...but its your find and your contribution...you should do it!

 

I don't have experience with wide tires. But, I can imagine that the limiting factor would be as shown below. Using a different rim offset could get around this limitation, but at what expense to handling and appearance ?

By the way, with my 255 wide tires on oem rims, there is about 3/4 inch clearance in this area.

 

I been trying to search as well for an end-link upgrade, here's what i found: I went to Mark Auto, and a friend of mine working there told me that he had the same issue while upgrade the sway bar on his car. He told that he used ball&socket style end-links from a company called MOOG. He tells me that this company specializes only on end-links, when i looked at a box, it had the nascar logo on it (so i'm guessing its good)... for our cars the price is about $35

I'm also going to Autopro tomorrow since a guy will be there who also knows about this kind of stuff.

 

Excellent, thanks for that reference, do you have a link or something to where these can be found?

In my own searching for these I came across these other end links made by Blox:

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread/1775892

I sent an inquiry into whether they will fit our TL's

 

^^nice pics in that link, our end-links look like they are multi-peice and flimsy. The one i checked out was one solid bar with ball joint sockets.

No link, then again maybe on MarkAuto's site we might see them...

 

i'm really liking those end links by blox, where can these be found? hopefully its not too much $$

 

Hey Leedog, I was gonna suggest something like the Blox. My Neuspeed bar for my VW came with endlinks like those.

Those BLOX links are adjustable in length... provided our endlinks are no longer than the BLOX maximum adjustment, they should bolt right up.

Looks like you found the answer Lee... and I'll be ordering a set too.

 

but will the bolts fit the same? or is it just the same universal fitment?

im having trouble on finding where to order them... where do you guys find them?

 

There is a guys on honda-tech selling them... he's a sponsored vendor... good luck...

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread/1717355

 

I just emailed that guy from tuner mag... I'll let you know what he says.

 

I also asked another person over there (whoisdan) about prices. I also asked about possible group prices, you should do the same if we could get a couple people here interested.

Also if excelerate or anybody over here can get us group prices cheaper than these, that would be preferrable

 

Those mounting bolts appear to be the same size... but i'm speculating. no doubt I'm waiting for Lee to figure this out before I order. I do the LED testing only.

 

So i went to the guy at Autopro, I told him my situation. He asks me why am i changing my sway bar; so i tell him um to improve handling... he knew nothing.. while i'm talking about end links, he's talk about bushings and how they are all the same!? i had no idea how that dude can keep straight face with such bs lies.. so thats that..

I went back to Mark Auto and took pics of the MOOG end links, These are greasable also. ::::These are not the exact ones for our car, just an example:::: Anyone with experience or better knowledge of this stuff help some of us out.

 

Hey Josh,

Did you get any good info from Progress? My RSB is still sitting in my trunk until there is some sort of clarification. Thanks...

 

This is what Progress said:

We don’t do anything for the end-links with that bar. The TL that we used for prototyping that bar has been running his on the stock end-links for well over a year now with no issues.


It can't hurt to upgrade the end links but I don't think it's necessary and neither does Progress.

 

I wonder if it was lowered.

 

Good question.

I'm thinking that if it's a car they use to test Progress' parts then yes it probably was lowered.

hmmmm

 

My car was Progress's "test vehicle" and yes, it's lowered on their Progress Sport springs. I have had no issues with the end links (brackets). And I have brought the car in about 10 months into having the equipment installed and no signs of wear or compromise of structural integrity. A very nice setup guys. You won't be disappointed.

 

Good to know... Now maybe I can install mine

 

^^Me too, just got mine today! woohoo! ^_^

 

Alright I'll provide some impressions from my experience with the bar.

I got it last Friday and did the install on Saturday.

The install took me and my neighbor roughly 3 hours. This number is high simply because we were taking our time and relaxed trying to insure that we did it correctly. Also, we were limited with the tools and only ONE floor jack. I ended up having to disconnect the passenger side rear lower exterior A-arm to get the bar to swing up into position, but don't worry I got an alignment soon after.

The larger size of the bar makes it much more difficult to put in when compared to how easily the stock one came out. But that's always true. Easy to take apart, hard as shit to put back together...

The bushings were maybe a little bit too large for the brackets provided, but with enough pressure and perserverance they squeezed in there.

The car feels great! The marginal understeer that is common with FWD cars is all but completely neutralized. The turn-in response is much more crisp and the back end feels planted in turns. Body roll was greatly reduced. Overall... it just feels like a new car. I used to drive a Quattro A4 and to be quite honest the TL mimicks the A4 now (at least a little bit). I put the bar on the softer setting to start, but I can see myself going back and moving the notch at a later time.

I'm impressed! For a sub $200 mod it seems to have a great impact on the car's overall performance.

Like I said earlier, it took us about 3 hours. That included a beer run and lots of standing around strategizing type time. I bet a motivated and capable person or team could do it in under an hour and a half.

If you're still on the fence, JUMP!

 

very nice review!

I too came from an A4Q and I also just installed my CT RSB last weekend. The bar greatly improved the handling and I definitely felt the rear more planted than before. I can also take turns at higher speed without the tires howling.

I should've done this mod a long time ago.

 

I would like to hear from someone who switch ed from a CT RSB to this one. I wouldn't think there would be any mesurable difference in feel.......or would there be>?

 

thats what i'd like to know also

 

I came from the CT sway bar to the Stiffest setting of the progress bar... My impressions are exactly as 07WDP expressed...

It feels like when I changed the stock sway bar to the CT sway bar...

PS: Took us less than 1/2 hour to install (only removing the rear passenger wheel)...

http://www..com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=524

 

I ordered a set of blox links a few days ago, will see how they work out