I installed the Pro Cats and CAI today. It took me about 5 hours to do the Pro Cats and 2 for the CAI.

For the Pro Cats I used the following install notes:

Originally Posted by Black_05_TL_6SP
If you are handy with tools it is something you could do yourself. It was really hard, you ust have to take alot apart. To do this install, you will need to put it up on jackstands, then

1)Remove all the plastic shrouding under the hood, the strut bar and the engine cover.

2) You will need to remove the passenger side electric fan. They are sepereate so one can be removed with out the other having to come out.

3) The Cruise Control Module on the passenger side of the motor will need to be unbolted and just moved out over the motor. (This will free up room to bring the cat up through the engine bay.

4) Remove the Plastic under carrage cover that runs under the drivers side of the car.

5) You can then remove the mid pipe, this is the pipe that connects the front cats to the back cat.

6) Then the rear cat can be removed.

7) You will need to unplug the O2 sensor and pull the harness loose from the car, do not try to remove it from the cat while still in the car.

8) You can then remove the front cat.

9) Now on the rear, you will want to remove the heat shielding from the cat before unbolting it from the head.

10) Once shroud is removed you can unbolt it. You will want to pull it up and out of the top of the engine.

To put back together, do it all in reverse order. This is the quick and easy steps. Its really not that bad, and with minor install ability, you should be able to do this.


The only thing I would add to this is I installed the Rear Cat by bringing it up from under the car. I couldn't get it lined up from bringing it in up top. I had to remove the axcel sheild to get it in from the bottom. I got it lined up and put on the nuts on but before I tighten them up I had to put the sheild back on. Other than that it went pretty well.

I did take a couple of shots and they can be found here:

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/quentinc...60762384690908

For some reason I cant post Pics or PM anyone. Whats up with that?

I went for a test drive and you can tell the deffernce right away. A huge difference from stock. When I get more time I will test drive some more and post more info and keep an eye on my MPG.

 

Thanks for the install advice, the pics are only rear shots of the exhaust tips?

 

The rest of the pics should be up now.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/quentinc25/albums

 

Verrrryy Nice, very nice!

Nice install write up.

...time to update the signature!

 

I'm still on the fence about the Pro-cats......

Thinking about doing Procats and Comptech exhaust (@ the same time) But thats like $2,100 + installation!! Since my wheels are going to take a 2-3 months....I think i'm just gonna go with that combo for now and get the wheels next fall...

 

Looks good Quentin.

And Jim there are some basic instructions for you. If you have any other questions call me about it.

 

Quentin, do the heat shields not go back on the pro-cats?

 

No.
The pro-cats are a lot smaller.

They have thier own heatshields.

 

Ya beat me to it. I just drove the car about 60 miles and everything seems to be fine. It is a bit lounder when it is idling or when you get into it pretty good but not loud at all. I am hoping to put on the UR pulley and intake spacers Sunday.

 

I think the Pro Cats give you the greatest HP and TQ gain besides an SC. I have noticed a very good increase in power in just the little time I have had to drive it. Motor seems to rev up a lot faster.

 

good luck with the pro cats.. they deteriorate quickly.. mine just threw a check engine light yesterday.. they fall apart.. there are people on this board who had the same problem. not many are actually saying anything.. for a 1000k.. i gained 11 hp and 4 lbs torque.. and they are done in under 10k miles.. biggest waste of money... good luck

 

Isn't this a problem only if you have the SC as well?

 

i think you mean 1k haha and yeah i thought it was only with the sc since it runs rich ... thus burning away the procats faster???

 

anyone aware of N/A TL burning out pro-cats? think its just the F/I types.

 

I searched the forums and everyone I came across with the problem of them burning out had a SC. SC's create a lot more heat so that is why they burn out faster may be. I am not a fan of putting an SC on a motor with some what high Compression. Any one out there that has had a Pro Cat burn out on NA motor?

 

I remember your post about that when you parted out the car.
These things have only been on the market for little over a year, so there's been little "field test" time.

I do certainly think the SC has an effect of accelerating deteriotion, and the same may be true for the stock cats... accept the stock cats are bigger (which would imply it would take longer for the damage to the cats to show via CEL). The problem is, you'll never know there's a problem until you get a CEL.

I do know if my pro-cats deteriorate by 10-15K miles in a N/A car, I'll be taking them back to ESP for a prompt refund. For the 1G these things cost, they better last the lifetime of the car.

 

I have had no issues with 18,000 miles, and passed emissions inspection with no issues.

 

WHOOAA ... WHAT THE? 2004 TL your TL came up with those numbers in your signature with only those mods???? That sounds too good to be true @___@

 

Thanks for the response. Nice numbers in your signature! You must have a MT?

 

It is lol

 

I would guess that they would tell you its a performance part...and it contains no warrantee. I have seen NO verbiage whatsoever concerning a warrantee anyway? Did you get warrantee papers for yours...I know I didnt....but I was about the third person to get em and first out of their general immediate trading area...so maybe they eventually developed out a warrantee for em? But my guess...if you didnt buy em from Excellerate....they would say that they were custom built for you to order at your request (as we all got right on the list asking for em to be built for us) therefore...are you not kind of "at your own risk" to some degree? I mean...I get the flavor of what you are saying...but it was a custom built part that as you have already put in writing....had little "field test" time, so it seems as if you also understood the risk up front? Not sure...hope if they DO go out though...that they would warrantee them...but I certainly wouldnt go into it expecting it, given the nature of the part you purchased and the size of the company. (not exactly Edelbrock we are talking about here) If they ALL went out....wouldnt that kind of most likely put them out of business if they were to warrant all of em? Just a thought?

I heard some of them that were superchared that have went out have been a result of the AFR running way off from where it should have been at WOT, resulting in the soaking of the unit with fuel....which yep....will cause it to go out. Now is that a result of the procat or the supercharger? Personally...mine adjusted out just fine...but I know others have not have the same thing happen. I think I have just gotten lucky in developing out the correct combination of air intake and exhaust flow the first time by chance....but I know my AFR's run right where they should? Dont expect any problems....(crossing fingers) But if they go out...I certainly cant blame e-shift! And I think in your case...given you are still NA.....you STILL would fall into a nonwarrantee case in that I dont believe these were sold with any expressed warrantee whatsoever.

 

UR pulley and intake, TB spacers are now installed. Unless someone can come up with a Turbo, I Think I am done under the hood. I am thinking about a RonJon areo kit but I would like to see a set installed in person.

 

Exactly what are you saying by "lol"?

 

Well you are right, I do have a MT. I responded to this question previously on another thread as to how I acheived these numbers with my mods, and the answer is getting the clutch/tire slip just right while timing the engine revs perfectly. Tire temp and road surface need to be optimal, and in most places this is not the case. I think that the lay driver would get numbers about 2-4 tenths slower in most cases, but I have tested my car many times and have seen almost the exact performance within a few .01 everytime. This is pure technique in handling the clutch and feeling the car. I have raced professionally before so I mastered this years ago on the track.

 

Well, do you have any time slips?

 

Well firstly, many of the TL guys w/ S/Cers are running a little rich, dipping into the 10.XX:1 AFR's. Unburnt fuel will accelerate the decline of the cats, aftermarket or OEM, b/c there have been others on this board with OEM cats that have burnt out. Also, many of you S/Ced guys are running water methanol or alcohol and that also eats up cats. I believe there were only a few that had issues and I know for a fact that both you and another were running rich and also running methanol or alcohol injection. That being said why don't you talk to E-Shift before bashing their product? First, Metal Cat warranties their cats and E-Shift warranties their product. I have spoken to Mike about this before and he does offer a very good warranty on these and he has always been willing to help. It is also known that you will only gain about 10-15whp w/ the S/C kit where as the N/A guys are experiencing more like 20whp.

 

I wanna see your dyno sheets . What type of dyno? If it was dyna-pak, they are usually 4-8% high w/o the wheels on

 

I had them a while ago, but I felt no need to keep them. If you are in the field of non-believers, so be it. I am not going to get into a batttle over this. My performance figures are accurate, and anyone who feels otherwise is entitled. Have a lovely day.

 

yeah it is known after the fact.. was only running rich for a bit.. and never use the methanol injection.. still unacceptable.. i know you are defending the product that you sell.. i was expecting you to chime in and defend these things.. bottom line.. bang for my buck? hell no.. can't argue that one ..

 

I could have swore at the E-Shift meet you had the methanol injection kit or was it just water/alcohol? I have to find the article on what that stuff does to the cats. I can't find it right now.

I can't argue your opinion and I'm not here to argue with you (actually I enjoyed talking to you at the E-Shift meet). However, I can chime in to my experiences with the cats. The only two or three issues posted thus far have been from S/Ced guys, and the rich AFR leave unburnt fuel which kills the cat. And I believe both of them were running the Snow Performance Methanol Injection kit.

But to be honest, if you are so upset why not call E-Shift? They are willing to warranty the product. Mike even told me the cat cores were warrantied for a few years by Metal Cat and he warranties his craftsmanship for even longer.

 

I know when a Cat goes out it will throw up a CIL but what is the effects of it going out? Does is cause the engine to run bad or is it just the fact that you cant pass inspection?

 

when you get a malfunction indicator lamp(MIL....AKA cel) for catalyst inefficient (P0134) this is the secondary 02S(oxygen sensor) doing its job of checking that the cat is working. the secondary 02S(narrowband) cross references what the primary 02S is seeing before the cat. the primary 02S is what the ECU uses to handle closed loop tuning, the secondary is only there to check for catalyst efficiency. therefore, if you throw the MIL P0134 the ECU is still going to tune the engine the same while in closed loop. the ECU will throw the hard code and will keep it there until it is cleared. after it is manually cleared, the ECU will constantly do its job of checking it various sensors, once it sees a voltage issue on the secondary 02S it stores the code as a soft code for a certain amount of time, after that time is up and the ECU determines the problem is not intermittent, it then moves the code to a hard code status and throws the MIL.

To reiterate, this code does not effect closed loop operation, and therefore is safe. It will cause you to fail emissions though.

CJ

 

so the comptech piggyback is running these guys in the low 10:1 afrs? wow.... why do you guys feel the need to run methonol/water injection with only 5psi? especially when afrs are too rich. are you running into detonation? i have not researched what the spark maps are after the comptech piggyback is installed but i would be willing to say it is too advanced for 5psi, hence why they felt the need to run afrs soooo rich, to "drown" out the over advanced ignition timing. which is a common mis practice when using a piggy map clamp that has no real control over ignition timing other than theside effects of clamping the map sensor voltage to alter injector duty cycle.

CJ

 

YOu know...mine ran into low 10's right after I put it on...but soon adjusted out and now runs right around 12 - 12.5ish at WOT. I am not sure if that is just the combination of intake/exhaust that could account for this or what? But yes...several other people have been running very rich at WOT. The reason they were running meth was to cool the intake charge as they were having heat issues and there is no real room for other alternatives at the front of the car. Personally...I am not running meth or nitrous though..and it seems fine to me?

 

the biggest reason you want to run a methonol/water mix is first and formost to increase the detonation threshold in boost by increasing octane. Methonol has a octane rating of about 140, so this increases the detonation threshold. Water is used to cool the fuel/air mixture. You usually do this to increase boost presures above what is capable with your current fuel system and help counteract the fact that you are boosting on a high static compression engine.

CJ

 

futhermore, it should not be needed at 5psi unless there is a serious flaw in the comptech tune. i suspect, with my knowledge of how a map clamp afc works, the ignition timing is over advanced causing preignition which is eventually leading to detnation at WOT in boost. you guys should not need meth/water on such a low boost pressure. if properly tuned, there would be no need for it.

CJ

 

How are you measuring afrs? Are you using a wideband 02s or a tail pipe sniffer on the dyno? Afrs in the mid to upper 12's is too lean. You ideally want to be in the low 12's high 11's for best realiablity.

As for why you leaned out after running in the 10.xx:1 range, whenever you reduce backpressure, you typically lean out afr and lower egts. If afrs get too lean, obviously egts rise again.

Do you ever hear knock at wot in boost?

Also, are you using the stock plugs? What is your gap set at? (stock .044)

CJ

 

No...I have never heard it knocking whatsoever. I am running the plugs that came with the comptech kit. Denso IK22. I am not sure of the gap...my guess is...it is whatever they recommended out of the box from Comptech or whatever they were pregapped at. Checking AFR's with AEM UEGO wideband.

 

They weren't running methanol b/c of detonation. They were running it to reduce the IAT. It was more for driveability than to reduce detonation. Now there were a couple who were running nitrous too and they may have been running methanol too b/c of the chance of detonation.

 

I was kinda wondering why he got into that whole line of thought...but figured either way...good info...so was trying to learn. But yes....if you didnt understand that before....that IS the reason people ran meth in this case....lower intake temps. Sorry...