Inaccurate

I feel that the J&R ECU does have something to offer to the N/A crowd. It would require work but it would be worth it. A person would be very pleased with the J&R ECU once it was mapped to be at the cutting edge of the ignition timing. When I say cutting edge, I mean encountering detonation periodically (for N/A, not FI engines) in all parts of the map (including wot and part throttle, hot weather and cold weather) to be assured of being at the highest timing possible. The N/A J-Engine is extremely sensitive to ignition timing. Meaning that if the timing drops a little, the power DROPS a lot. With my ghetto tuning via no knock sensor and relocated IAT sensor (among my other many mods as groundwork), I stay at the cutting edge of the ignition timing map. It did make a big difference to me. I feel that my performance has been bumped up a notch or two by my ghetto tuning.

It is not really what I did to increase the timing. I just allowed my car to use the fullest timing possible from the oem map (which is plenty or too much).

The TL is equipped with an oem ECU that has the potential to offer TOO MUCH timing to the stock TL. If a stock TL (versus my lightweight version) was to run with the fullest possible timing, it would have massive detonation all the time. We see what happens when the stock TL does get a bit too close sometimes (see link below) under light-to-mid throttle.

Valve Chatter/Pinging/Knocking in 2007 TypeS (click here)

When I was preparing for my Nitrous Methanol Injection System (NMI) (click here), I made some mods to allow me to run with the fullest oem timing possible to assist burning the methanol. But, I discovered that it was great for n/a also.

To get the maximum timing from the oem map via my ghetto tuning, I lie to the computer. If the ecu sees any knocking from the knock sensor, it will retard the timing for a long time (approx 15 minutes). After the 15 minutes, the ecu will just partially restore the timing back to what it was beforehand. Furthermore, I would be a bit paranoid by *if* the knock sensor is picking-up rattling from something and making the ecu think that it is detonation.

Also, the ecu heavily depends on the IAT sensor to decide how much timing to give the engine. I feel this is one of the primary methods by which the the Ultimate Cooling Mod (click here) works. IF the underhood temps are lowered, the IAT sensor will run cooler (not the intake air itself, but the whole sensor). When the IAT sensor gets warmer, the ecu drops the timing.

These two things, a warm IAT sensor and knocking, is what makes the oem ecu drop the timing. If the ecu thought that there was absolutely no detonation and the air was cooler, then the engine would receive the fullest timing possible from the oem map..... which is a lot of timing. I stay perfectly at the cutting edge of detonation all the time (part throttle, wot, cold weather, hot weather).

The PCV Delete and EGR Delete slightly bumped my performance too. So for anyone doing the J&R ECU, I recommend this too. It bumped my performance mainly at light-to-mid throttle. I feel that it did bump my performance up a very small notch at wot.

Plus for the 5AT people, install new 3rd/4th Pressure Switches for the 5AT. If a person was to do all of these mods (cutting edge ignition timing, PCV Delete, EGR Delete, 3rd/4th Pressure Switches, and UCM) after getting the J&R ECU, this person would be one happy camper if my experiences extrapolate over to them.

My car totally freaks me out now after these changes. Whenever I am not scared zhitless by it, I am laughing my azz off by what my car just pulled-off. Sometimes it makes me happy to just drive the wife's RL.... not having to deal with the hyper-ness of my car.

Here are the links to these mods being discussed and other related links -

IAT Sensor Relocation (click here)

Removing the oem Knock Sensor (click here)

How To Trick the ECU (click here)

Knock Monitor (click here)

The Ultimate Cooling Mod (click here)

Insulating your CAI? (click here)

TB Coolant Bypass Mod...anyone do this? (click here)

Crankcase and Coolant (TB) Bypass Modification (click here)

My EGR Delete (click here)

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ great post Inaccurate....am almost half way down

JuamPs 69

Here are the links from my very first installation until now. It provides specific numbers from stock all the way up to current add ons. As you can see the car started at 253whp/229tq STOCK Manual Tranny. These results state the big difference between auto vs manual.

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/08-mt-tl-type-s-dyno-results-643461/

Second link provides the dyno pull results with the pre-cat deletes...In between i purchased the catback which i never dynoed to see the improvement. Numbers where at 290whp...So far for the money and power nothing better than the pre-cat deletes...

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/08-mt-tl-type-s-new-dyno-results-796580/


After a while the lower intake runners were ported and polished providing an additional 4whp to 294...for a final number of 294/262tq...My mechaninc claims to do one last pull that gave him 296whp but i do not have a graph or anything.

I was still very eager to break the 300whp NA untuned...About 2 months ago kingmotorsports...AKA Mugen distributor for the USA...Did the matching of my intake manifold to the bored TB...It was a little bit expensive, but it is top notch quality in my opinion...NOTHING BETTER THAN MUGEN when it comes to HONDAS.

So hopefully next week we will dyno the car with this bored TB to see the numbers while we wait for the ECU...

To review...the mods for the power are as follows:

Intake: AEM CAI, TB heatshield gaskets and Spacers, Bored TB, IM matching, IM heatshield gasket, port and polished lower intake runners.

Exhaust: RV6-pre cat deletes, ATLP Jpipe, ATLP race pipe (third cat delete), XLR8 Quad resonated catback.

I have also mods to lots of other stuff like tranny etc, suspension, brakes, etc.

It is a very powerful car with FULL INTERIORS still killing 2011 audi s4 with exhaust, 370z stock manual tranny, g37, g35, 350z(all modded), M3e46 modded, Lexus IS350 with exhaust.

The links provide videos with dyno clips and sound clips...

This video has been so far the only one randomly recorded racing an RSX...it was fun times:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-V8wZkWjwk

rush

iTrader: (1)

Nice tread....,...., my next mod should put you well over 300whp especially TQ it's almost done then will be available to public 

FCVadi

iTrader: (3)

Swoosh, now I understand what you are getting at

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

Juam....I thought you had your manifold porter and polished as well....

though you had bored TB, pnp Intake Manifold, pnp Runners....

JuamPs 69

Nope...manifold its just matched to the bored TB...porting and polishing manifold will be later not just yet

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ i think you will see slight gains from that as well hence I asked....after being fully bolted in and standalone ECU your type - S 6MT will be a beast (not that its not now) but damn....cant wait to see this....

JuamPs 69

Thanks man i will keep you all posted...The port and polish will be the next project in conjunction with the entire headwork...

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

Yeah....heads + Cam will be pretty extensive and exclusive....make sure you add bigger injectors....

Sonnick

If you are at 320 once tuned, which I think you will be, I'd expect you to trap between 105-106. Once you port the manifold, heads, and put a cam in, I'd expect easily 350-360 and traps exceeding 108mph.

Gerzand trapped 103.x with his Base TL 5AT with bolt ons/cams/basic porting/tune on heavy 19s. With his lightweight 16s, I'd expect 104-105. The 5AT usually traps a solid 3-4 mph less than it's 6MT counterpart, leading me to believe if he were 6MT he'd be trapping upwards of 107-108 like ethenol. That's fast!

mY sLOW UA6

With 350-360 whp I would expect to see traps of around 110+

bouncer07

I wouldn't think he'll break that much on a tune. 320 sounds too much for N/A.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

Lets not compare this to Gerzand....we all do not know what mods he had....what exhaust setup he had....we are all confused....I have an email from him saying if I get the ECU + Type S Cams + tune, I will be at 320 to the wheels coz he was around that much....i did double check, he was on Type S cams....

So my point being, lets see Juam's setup and make that as a baseline for comparison since he has documented everything on here....i do feel the dyno is a tad bit more optimistic, but thats couple hp's, which we can ignore and learn to live with....

its been done on a base 5AT....Juam has a Type S 6MT....so he has an advantage of ~20-30hp....i think with supporting mods i do see Juam hitting 400 (assumption, dont quote me)

jnc2000

Just for the record here I have seen Andy's (Gerzand) setup.. have video's [which were also posted on Azine] of Andy's setup and all the information regarding his MOD's are out there in one form or another. While yes this was done on a 5AT with a BSI Stage 2 CAM... he now has a 6mt and is swapping everything over. For the record I'm not the only Azine member who has heard / seen this setup...

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ i have heard his setup too and he is a great guy always ready to help....

what i meant to say is that his progress is not documented well like Juam is doing....he did tell me i could buy couple things off his BASE once he is done swapping out the major stuff to the Type S 6MT....

can you tell me his exhaust setup ?

jnc2000

Richie's PCD, Long tube j-pipe and ATLP quads... second resonator in there due to the PCD... forget the exact model number ATM.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ he told me he was on stock jpipe....ethenol and him had switched back to stock....either way....he is doing a great job with the car....i was going to meet him and get some work done on my car but decided to do it in the spring....

lets get back to the topic....

Sonnick

I don't disagree with why you think that. However, the dyno in this thread of a Type S 6MT with less mods than Juam making an additional 20whp/20wtq with higher amounts in the midrange leads me to believe 320 is achievable. The car in question had I/Jpipe/Catback. Juam has a bored TB/matched intake manifold/PCDs on top of what the other Type S had. That Type S made I believe 280 or so. I'd say it's pretty feasible based on that dyno that Juam can exceed 320whp with a good tune.

I believe he is in Florida as well which houses both Rodney and P2R (both very knowledgeable with the J).

Side note: Juam, where in Florida are you (once you return safely )? There are a couple cars that I have seen on other forums in SFL that I'm sure would be interested to run a bolt on/tuned Type S 6MT. A few cammed RSX's, SI's, GTI's, etc. But again, I'm not sure where you are from, nor do I know these people personally. Just seen them post a lot of races online. May be a good benchmark as well

the fenda rolla

Quick troll update....

Spoke with Rodney, he was very helpful about answering my questions concerning adjustment to the VTEC, cam angle adjustments, and overall benefit of this ECU for a N/A application. He said VTEC can be changed, cam angles cannot be changed (he said the J-series is not like the K-series in that regard), and that by adjusting the fuel and timing, a N/A can gain some power.

I also asked him if N/A engines would need different tunes for different climates or regions and he said no, one tune would do the trick and the stock ECU would make the fine tune adjustments for those conditions. He also said the unit is end-user adjustable (which we already knew) and that if someone who is knowledgeable with tuning the megasquirt (such as himself) were to tune it, it would only take about 30-45 mins (I'm assuming for N/A engines...).

It was good to chat with Rodney and getting better informed about this solid product...

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ BRAVO !!!

thanks for posting the reply....i am interested in this as well but waiting on pulling the trigger....

JuamPs 69

Sonnick you forgot the ported and polished lower intake runners LMAO...Actually the runners were the one that helped me achieve from 290whp to 294whp with 5lbs of tq more...

During the time that I am deployed, the TL stays @ Orlando, but I live in Miami closest guy is P2R. Rodney is far more north. The video of me racing the RSX he has not worked on his new mods yet, but he promised to contact me once he is cammed and puts his k-pro.

Meanwhile I've got set up one race on my return with an s2000. Sounds like CAI/Headers/Exhaust and a few other things that they dont wanna disclose LMAO...Anyways...ill be ready for them after this tune.

the fenda rolla

No prob Swoosh! I'm definitely interested in purchasing this as well and driving to Ft. Lauderdale to have Rodney tune it...possibly the week between Christmas and new years...

rush

iTrader: (1)

Any thing about n2nd gen Cl 

the fenda rolla

^^^ sorry bro, I forgot to ask :/ But if you give him a call he'll def let ya know! Go to his website: jandrnextlevelperformance.com

JuamPs 69

Fenda Rolla...if you are in the south florida area during that time...Ill be arriving right after new years...We should set up a match lol watcha think?

Sonnick

Whoops, forgot about the runners.

So the RSX wasn't tuned? It had bolt ons only? I had initially thought he was tuned with KPro. I mean, it looks like you still put about 8 cars on him lol.

the fenda rolla

Ha! Sounds good! I think you might have the advantage though...mine is 5AT, no cams, no PnP, no pulley, no cat-back...

BUT, I will definitely post pics/vids/dynos when it happens...in my soon (another month) complete build thread...it won't be much, just what I have in my sig...

JuamPs 69

LMAO just messing with ya...Sonnick yeah..it was a 40mph...he was in first gear with vtec all ready opened...I was in second gear 4,000rpms 40mph...i knew where it was going...i asked him to do it both from a 10mph roll or full stop...but he said no lololol...Its all good

JuamPs 69

he has an aftermarket manifold too...It would be a god race once he is cammed and kpro

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ i love 50mph rolls

your bam in the power zone and when you thro into 3rd your still in the power zone

FCVadi

iTrader: (3)

I read through the thread but did not see this answer

Can we change DBW to be more responsive? i know we can change luanch point/ignition but thinking of throttle response when in traffic or down shifting so there is no lag..well I dont have too much lag but curious since in my older hondas it was easy since it wasnt a DBW

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

The sprint booster will increase throttle response.

FCVadi

iTrader: (3)

ya... didnt want to get the sprint booster...

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Reset the ecu each morning before you leave.

FCVadi

iTrader: (3)

so wondering if JR ECU will do what the sprint booster or resetting ECU does

I do the reset but hate having to do it every day.. which I dont.. usually just once every two weeks

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

They don't. Answer is here:

http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...=43222#p304903

pass427

thanks for answering that kn we actually use the oem ecu to control dbw this allows us to retain all luxury features in return makes the car still a master piece..

FCVadi

iTrader: (3)

thanks for the find KN

BostonSilverTypeS

hey Juamps when did you get back I was around your neck of the woods after new years right before i left wish I had known this It would have been nice to see your TL-S versus my TL-S after the JnR ECU tune....

I know you would still pull on me but interested to see how much by!!! maybe next time I come down lol!