your car confuses me.
I actively look at the front brakes to determine auto or 6mt.
I'd be scratching my head if i ever saw your car.

 

I use the brakes to tell the difference too. With the old ones being blue, you knew they were aftermarket. With the black ones and without the drilled rotors, they look a lot like the Brembos. From a difference you might mistake the Stoptech for Acura and the .8" difference in rotor diameter might not be noticed.

 

I haven't had time to make an entire thread and sorry to thread jack. We just got a stocking order of these brake kits. All colors are in stock (black, silver, red) in both rotor finishes (slotted or drilled). If anyone wants to place an order please do so in the following links (if you want a red or silver caliper just specify that in the Customer Comment box).

Slotted:

http://store.excelerateperformance.c.../i-533156.aspx

Drilled:

http://store.excelerateperformance.c.../i-533157.aspx

 

By all means use this thread. I'm going to do one big detailed and organized summary along with the objective data and ask the mods to clean it up and delete posts. Maybe retitle it. It could be a new product intro with first impressions and data.

 

Well, I got some 60-0 stopping numbers today. I'm very sick, I've been very fatigued for the past week and finally took a day off after no improvement after 12 straight hrs of sleep over the weekend. But I got bored of watching TV and acurazine and quickly did some stopping distances before sleeping some more.

I drove the car around for several miles to get the tires and the whole car up to temp. I did a few practice stops to get my timing right. The tires leave light marks on the road as soon as I hit the brakes so I can see right where I'm hitting them and I can add or subtract distance if I'm off a little which I was most of the time. I gave the brakes a couple minutes to cool between stops. I'm sure they were hotter with each stop but that was fine, I wanted to see how the friction coefficient of the pads changed with temp and the Nittos seem to be slightly better at slightly higher than average temps. I only did 10 stops but it's enough to get a good idea.

First thing, I had no idea the difference would be this big. If I remember right, the best I ever got with the Rotoras was 112', got to find the paper still. To be fair I think I had a lot more weight in audio equipment back then.

I averaged 91.5' 60-0mph. They were all surprisingly close. The best technique seemed to be to let the ABS do the work surprisingly.

I didn't bring my temp gun with me but I know the brakes and tires were getting slightly hotter with each stop. Pedal feel remained about the same. The pads seemed to get a little more aggressive with more temperature and the stopping distances more or less got shorter in the later stops.

I'm still a little surprised at the difference. I'm sure my speedo is as accurate now as it was then but I might put my GPS in the car and use that for the 60mph starting point just in case. Tires are the same as last time, suspension is the same except the rear shocks have a little more rebound damping. I honestly can't remember if the larger FSB was there last time but I believe it was, not that it would make much if any difference.

So there you have it, Stoptech 13" 1pc BBK + NT05= 91.5' 60-0 times. I don't know how this compares to other cars, I'm not sure it can be compared to other cars since the surface has to be taken into account.

 

91.5 feet? wow that is impressive because I've just watched that and it does not beat 100 ft from 60-0

although there are other factors i.e) surface and tires to be taken into consideration as you said

I sent you a pm rsb related a while ago too if you don't mind answering

thanks

 

I did search out the stickiest surface I could find. It ended up being a place I used to drag race the GN many years ago. I debated on this but came to the conclusion that I should not limit myself to a mediocre surface when I have to assume that most other people doing this testing are also trying to find the best surface. It's not all about the best numbers, more about comparing changes but it doesn't hurt to try and get the shortest stopping distances possible.

I spent hours researching stopping distances after posting the numbers last night. The TL is deep into exotic territory it looks like. But you have oddball cars that stop really well. One of the older Lexus sedans outstop most exotics. I also found a little Peugeot economy car that outstopped a 911 and pulled higher skidpad numbers as well. Tires and weight seem to be the biggest influences and IMO, braking balance lets all 4 tires function at their limits instead of just 2. Having the F-R bias back, the ABS is MUCH more effective. The tires are screeching the whole way to zero. With the Rotoras it had a few really harsh pulses and then it's like the brakes were working at 50% capacity. The best stops with the Rotoras were threshold braking without ABS intervention.

I found this article this morning, I don't know whether to be very happy or to redo the tests using GPS.

http://www.motortrend.com/features/m...t/viewall.html

 

read the article, they were all vented in the rear and had 4 caliper bbk in the rear.. the vettes had almost same size rotors front and back while the others were about 10-25% different in sizes

what confuses me is that the same "model" did different in the years.. 2010 stopped the worst, 2009 did better then 2011 did the best for the vettes... wish I knew more of what was different.. be nice if they listed the weights for the cars

that said be real curious to know if the GPS measurement/speed will show anythin different.. also trying to figure out how to measure the distance correctly.. you might need someone to spot the actual placement of first stop and then measure it out... dont know.. 91ft for the TL would be awesome.. heck even if being 10% off would be great

 

Back when I started the test a couple years ago I had someone with me but the tires lay down rubber exactly where I was first hitting the brakes so I stopped using another person. I put a cone where the car stopped and measured to the beginning of the rubber.

The Vettes have the transaxle in the rear and a very good weight distribution along with the magnatec or whatever their active shocks are called that nearly eliminate from end dive so I can see where brake sizes would be very close front and rear. Same with most 911 Porsches. My guess is the difference in stopping distances was surface or tire related between the years. Maybe even software changes in the ABS.

For the TL, 13" front brakes aren't that big at all. The only reason they're acceptable is because most TLs even modded are under 300hp and most people don't track them. With a car that puts this much weight on the front tires under braking I think 14" would be a good start if it was like the usual 400+hp supercars and tracked. For the hp and weight level, the 13" are more than enough but I did want to point out they're far from oversized considering the rears aren't doing a whole lot.

I do want to get a few more tests in because the last thing I want to do is mislead people. I'm confident in the measurement of the stopping distances. My tires are about 1/4" shorter in diameter than stock so the speedo will read about 1mph fast at 60mph but I *think* the navi equipped models automatically calibrate the speedo to different sized tires. 1mph could add a few feet to the stopping distance but that's easy enough to figure out with GPS. Whether or not the absolute distance is correct, the difference between the Rotoras and Stoptechs is staggering. I really don't think we're going to see much of a difference with GPS but if it eliminates another variable it's worth it. I can perform another test on a different surface and see how that affects distance as well.

I looked at the video of the GTR and it seems like they're using g-force to calculate the stopping distances. I hope they're measuring the old fashioned way but if not, that could help or hurt the GTR. Most of the G-tech style devices have been very liberal with the mph when being run at the strip.

 

Loving the data. I really appreciate the technical feedback.

 

whoa what a yummy thread

i have a question tho, your calipers look like they're stoptech ST-41.

Is there a special something about it to be chosen over ST-40?? weight maybe?

 

so is this kit front and rears? I would like to do a BBK for all around.
I was looking at the Wilwood's a little while back.

I've been wanting to redo the brembos on my TL-S, cuz with all the extra power you gota be able to stop too, lol.

 

O and IHC, i don't think u answered why you would not go back to slotted and drilled rotors?

 

Slotted, yes. Drilled, never again on the street. Every single hole in the Rotora rotor had a crack originating from the hole. There were two major cracks that were the reason why I had to get rid of them. One of them was brought to my attention by the noise it produced when stopping and a slight pulse in the pedal... it was that bad.

One of the white papers I purchased said that a drilled rotor will crack 100% of the time. It's just a matter of time. I took those odds, thinking that I would need to replace the rotors due to wear before the cracks developed but I lost that bet.

 

Here is Porche's recommendation for monitoring cracking on their blingy "street" rotors. You will not find a drilled rotor on any modern race car. Drilled rotors are for fools who like to impress other fools.

 

The 1 pc BBKs by STOPTECH use the ST-41 caliper. The ST-40 caliper is typically for the 2 pc BBKs.

This is just a front kit. The majority of braking is done in the front and if we did a rear kit it would require a 2 pc disc and that would double the cost of this kit. But this kit is for the non-Brembo TL.

 

so is there a weight advantage 41 over 40?

41 does look smaller than 40 but 40 uses lighter rotors,,, (btw stoptech site lists 1pc for 40 too)

in general, why would you recommend (if you did) this kit over ST40 kit with 1pc slotted?

 

I researched the difference once upon a time but forgot it. I believe it's piston sizes. The 40 uses a larger pad which will reduce pad wear. For the same rotor diameter I would use the same piston size as Stoptech did. The bias is significantly improved with this kit over other big brake kits and even from stock. This is the only place you might see a reduction in stopping distances.

 

Question which i have not seen answered, is there a bbk kit for us 6mt guys with factory brembro setup. And if yes please what company and price beause i will soon be interested and p.s for the 3g TL.

 

I could not find a single info regarding st41 lol.

Thanks ihc. I love you. No homo

 

Lol. I looked up piston sizes between the two. They both offer a ton of options, the same options except the 40 goes up to 46mm I think, one size larger than the 41. I wish I had written my piston sizes down but I think the two large ones were 46mm. Its probably in this thread but I'm on my phone now and it would take way too long to find it.

One thing you will love is the pedal feel, especially under hard braking. The stiffness of the caliper shows. I haven't seen too many that use a bridge. If you do a good job bleeding, there's practically zero pedal movement.

 

You could pick piston sizes?!? Or do I just order from xlr8 and they have the ones you have??

 

I have the ones that came with the kit. They do a lot of testing to determine piston sizes for proper bias unlike other manufacturers like Rotora and it really shows in stopping distances.

 

Hmmm *checks piggy bank* I think I know what I want for Christmas this year

 

[QUOTE=

This is just a front kit. The majority of braking is done in the front and if we did a rear kit it would require a 2 pc disc and that would double the cost of this kit. But this kit is for the non-Brembo TL.[/QUOTE]

Yea. I just want a full bbl. I hate the dinky little calipers on the rear.

 

The ST-41 caliper is smaller and uses a different pad. The ST-41 caliper is used in most, if not all, STOTPECH touring kits, which is basically what the XLR8 BBK for the 3G TL base is.

http://www.stoptech.com/products/big-brake-kits/touring

The ST-40 caliper comes with the standard STOPTECH 2pc disc BBK, which costs about $500 more.

Yes, we can get you a ROTORA BBK. PM me for more details; include your vehicle info and zip code.

No, the kit was designed by STOPTECH for optimum brake balance and bias. We do not offer different piston sizes.

 

final question : these clear 07-08 base split 5spoke 17" rims right?

 

Yep. This is one of the few if not the only BBK that will actually cut your one stop stopping distances.

 

what about under 300hp and tracked(downhill twisty(?) from 3200ft elevation down to 1500?)?

13.5? lol

 

http://hardbrakes.com/index.php?main...products_id=52

^ i was researching for if i should go for ST40 or ST41 then randomly found that.. just some accessory for the XLR8 BBK.

 

Have a little dillema here with my stoptech bbk. When trying to install the bracket the stock calliper bolt that connects to the spindle doesnt fit into the bracket. Is it possible i have the wrong bracket?the manual that came with them doesnt say TL on it so it worrys me.

 

I don't think this BBK is for Type S (sorry if i'm wrong, your front bumper looks lilke Type S)

 

I have a base. Type s lip.