I have an idea, Gurus get in here
10-11-2010, 04:55 PM
#1
I have an idea, Gurus get in here
I got to thinking the other night. A colder denser air charge yields more horsepower and better fuel economy right? The TL has trouble with heat soak under the hood so really a CAI has little effect because the air coming in is heated by the hot CAI tube.
The idea I had was utilizing the factory AC system to cool the CAI tube resulting in less heat getting to the cooler air coming in from the CAI. If you touch the freon lines under the hood of the car while the AC is on they get very cold. What if you were to coil addition freon lines around the CAI tube? This would cool the tube and help keep the air coming in cooler.
Now if this would work and actually do what I think that it should do(which I could be wrong) the hardest part would be rerouting the lines would be the hardest part. The system would have to be evacuated first and filled after.
What do you guys think?
The idea I had was utilizing the factory AC system to cool the CAI tube resulting in less heat getting to the cooler air coming in from the CAI. If you touch the freon lines under the hood of the car while the AC is on they get very cold. What if you were to coil addition freon lines around the CAI tube? This would cool the tube and help keep the air coming in cooler.
Now if this would work and actually do what I think that it should do(which I could be wrong) the hardest part would be rerouting the lines would be the hardest part. The system would have to be evacuated first and filled after.
What do you guys think?
10-11-2010, 05:21 PM
#2
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it does sound like something that might work....but a lot of people have the CAI insulated and also with re-routing the AC lines i rather just get a nice CF vented hood...
10-11-2010, 07:27 PM
#4
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ahhh search is ur best friend....i think someone on here does have a vented hood....also getting a vented hood made out of ur existing hood shouldnt be too bad....
yes the insulation only keeps the heat out....and what your way would do is just cool the CAI so that the warm air will get a little cooler....the rate at which the air is flowing through the CAI, you will be able to marginally drop the air temp....again ur trying to cool the air by cooling the CAI.....the vented hood or a different method (inaccurate's shark mouth and/or cooling mod) would cool the air directly (more ventilation = cooler air) and hence will be a way cheaper + better way to go about it.....
props for thinking creatively though....again am not discouraging you....and just thinking out loud....
yes the insulation only keeps the heat out....and what your way would do is just cool the CAI so that the warm air will get a little cooler....the rate at which the air is flowing through the CAI, you will be able to marginally drop the air temp....again ur trying to cool the air by cooling the CAI.....the vented hood or a different method (inaccurate's shark mouth and/or cooling mod) would cool the air directly (more ventilation = cooler air) and hence will be a way cheaper + better way to go about it.....
props for thinking creatively though....again am not discouraging you....and just thinking out loud....
10-11-2010, 07:33 PM
#5
Three Wheelin'
Your A/C compressor would run more (and take away your power gain otherwise) due to coolness lost to the tube that was meant for the passenger compartment. Insulate the tube really well I say. Remember, the throttle body is hot and that big intake is too.
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10-11-2010, 10:12 PM
#9
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What's UCM?
BTW - look up threads started by member "innacurate". He did a really good DIY on insulating the CAI and also on one improving air flow under the hood to reduce heat soak. And he did one for the Throttle Body Coolant Bypass as well.
BTW - look up threads started by member "innacurate". He did a really good DIY on insulating the CAI and also on one improving air flow under the hood to reduce heat soak. And he did one for the Throttle Body Coolant Bypass as well.
Last edited by Bearcat94; 10-11-2010 at 10:15 PM.
10-11-2010, 10:15 PM
#11
Your Friendly Canadian
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General rule of thumb is that A/C systems take up ~10% of an engine's power. The base TL is rated at 258 hp with the new SAE rating system. So to break even, your cooling system would have to effective enough to cool the intake air 25 horsepower's worth. And that nets you 0 crank horsepower gain.
Factor in the fact that it's very rare to see any CAI generate more than a claimed 20 crank horsepower, and that Hondas/Acuras for the most part tend to respond not so well to intake mods, and it looks like this mod is more trouble than it's worth, and unless you're an engineering whiz, you'll end up losing horsepower.
My
based on probably incorrect calculations.
Factor in the fact that it's very rare to see any CAI generate more than a claimed 20 crank horsepower, and that Hondas/Acuras for the most part tend to respond not so well to intake mods, and it looks like this mod is more trouble than it's worth, and unless you're an engineering whiz, you'll end up losing horsepower.
My
based on probably incorrect calculations.
10-11-2010, 10:15 PM
#12
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UCM: Underhood cooling mod? By Inaccurate.
10-11-2010, 10:33 PM
#13
, shimming the hood up looks like the car was wrecked. I did the TBCB mod when I did the P2R spacer
.Nope, thats what the shop is for haha
General rule of thumb is that A/C systems take up ~10% of an engine's power. The base TL is rated at 258 hp with the new SAE rating system. So to break even, your cooling system would have to effective enough to cool the intake air 25 horsepower's worth. And that nets you 0 crank horsepower gain.
Factor in the fact that it's very rare to see any CAI generate more than a claimed 20 crank horsepower, and that Hondas/Acuras for the most part tend to respond not so well to intake mods, and it looks like this mod is more trouble than it's worth, and unless you're an engineering whiz, you'll end up losing horsepower.
My based on probably incorrect calculations.
Factor in the fact that it's very rare to see any CAI generate more than a claimed 20 crank horsepower, and that Hondas/Acuras for the most part tend to respond not so well to intake mods, and it looks like this mod is more trouble than it's worth, and unless you're an engineering whiz, you'll end up losing horsepower.
My
based on probably incorrect calculations.Great responses guys, I was thinking about this for a few days. Right now Im switching my interior from Camel to Black so I am in car mode...
10-11-2010, 10:58 PM
#14
UCM stands for ultimate cooling mod and involves the removal of the cowl between the top of the hood and bottom of the windshield. No hood shims, just good old ventilation. Air flow is what you want, an Evo style hood would just attract civics. I agree that the air moves too fast thru the intake to be cooled by it.
How do I attract Integras LOL
10-12-2010, 11:10 AM
#18
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OP no i was referring the UCM as vented hood.....someone on here does have the vented hood....let me try looking it up and post a link here.....
10-12-2010, 11:31 AM
#19
Why reinvent the wheel?
DEI makes something to cool the intake charge but it's not going to make that significant of a difference on a N/A car.
http://store.excelerateperformance.c.../i-245275.aspx
DEI makes something to cool the intake charge but it's not going to make that significant of a difference on a N/A car.
http://store.excelerateperformance.c.../i-245275.aspx
10-12-2010, 09:29 PM
#20
94 DC4 RS LSV/Turbo
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^ the guy knows his stuff I was about to link to the very thing
ps... I did the whole "vented" thing, it resulted in a dirty filter and good looks lol
ps... I did the whole "vented" thing, it resulted in a dirty filter and good looks lol
10-12-2010, 09:37 PM
#21
Team Owner
AC takes about 5hp to run. The compressor shuts off at WOT so that shouldn't even come into effect. I know 110% for sure because I accidentally did a couple dyno pulls with the AC on and they were all within 1/10th of a hp from one another.
The CAI makes more power because of where it draws the air from. The air has very little time to heat up as it travels through the intake tube to the engine. I would call it insignificant.
Insulating the CAI tube will greatly help.....until you shut the engine off.
There was a mod like this many years ago for the GNs. It circulated ice water around the up pipe into the intake manifold. It was found to make 0 extra hp. There was also a kit that used the car's AC system to chill a bunch of water around the factory intercooler while driving around normal. It never caught on. I believe the AC system does not have the capacity to make a significant difference.
Basically, once you are drawing air from a cool source outside of the engine bay, you've got 95% of the gains. Even if the pipe were below freezing all the time I doubt you would gain any measurable hp.
If you're willing to go to the trouble of plumbing in freon and some type of jacket around the pipe, I would look into CO2 spray, nitrous (for it's cooling effect) or methanol injection. With nitrous and meth, you will get the intake charge going into the engine below ambient. They each have their drawbacks but it you don't mind investing a lot of time tuning and messing with it, this is your best bet. CO2 would be sprayed on the induction system and probably would not be very effective. Something that sprays into the actual airstream will always be much more effective.
The CAI makes more power because of where it draws the air from. The air has very little time to heat up as it travels through the intake tube to the engine. I would call it insignificant.
Insulating the CAI tube will greatly help.....until you shut the engine off.
There was a mod like this many years ago for the GNs. It circulated ice water around the up pipe into the intake manifold. It was found to make 0 extra hp. There was also a kit that used the car's AC system to chill a bunch of water around the factory intercooler while driving around normal. It never caught on. I believe the AC system does not have the capacity to make a significant difference.
Basically, once you are drawing air from a cool source outside of the engine bay, you've got 95% of the gains. Even if the pipe were below freezing all the time I doubt you would gain any measurable hp.
If you're willing to go to the trouble of plumbing in freon and some type of jacket around the pipe, I would look into CO2 spray, nitrous (for it's cooling effect) or methanol injection. With nitrous and meth, you will get the intake charge going into the engine below ambient. They each have their drawbacks but it you don't mind investing a lot of time tuning and messing with it, this is your best bet. CO2 would be sprayed on the induction system and probably would not be very effective. Something that sprays into the actual airstream will always be much more effective.
10-14-2010, 11:16 AM
#22
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Vented Hood + UCM = FTW
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