Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Will the Aeromotive 340 support pulse with modulation or is that why the 325 pump is more expensive? Are you saying the stock fuel sock will be good since 425 WHP on E85 is a lot more flow of fuel than 425 WHP using Gas?

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

The 340 supports PWM. For confirmation, see here: http://www.aeromotiveinc.com/tech-he...th-fuel-pumps/

Yes, my point was that if it can support 30+% more volume required for 425whp on E85, then it can support Gasoline with ease.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I can't believe Andy came out of his cave...

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Update:

After 5 weeks in the shop I finally have the car back in the garage and ready to drive. I am going to try and be more detailed in what was involved and the costs with this build. I don't have the room to do much in my garage, so I have a shop do most of my work. This will give you a better idea of what exactly goes into theses builds and some line by line charges to see exactly where these crazy/ scary amounts we come up with come from. The invoices are for mostly labor with a few low price parts( except the tranny housing. ). As far as parts in addition to the invoices' I bought a flash pro ($600), Spec clutch and flywheel ($1400), 07 TL auto ECU ($120), New 3.2 block ($650). AEM boost gauge and controller ($350), AEM wideband ($160), Gate racing timing belt ($100), Hondata Map sensor ($100)' and Wiseco 9.5:1 Pistons ($900). This is a car that has been build for boost and has been thru 3 engine changes, so I am changing out some parts that I already had to better versions, but I had everything to run the car prior to the build.

Now to the frustrating part of builds, the car will not boost higher than 12 Psi for some reason. I have the boost controller set to 90% duty cycle ( highest it will go) and 12 Psi is all I can get. I think it is the spring in the waste gate having gone bad and not holding back much Psi before opening. The car had been at the shop for more than 5 weeks, the bill was mounting and I didn't have access to a new spring right away so I took the car home with the hope of running at this power level for a break in period before having it retuned to my desired Psi level. If anyone has any insight into what's happening let me know. The car was running 15-18 Psi using the MS3 connected to the same AEM boost solenoid I'm using now.

UTAH TSX

Looking good, might as well get a new diaphragm with the new spring, what spring rate are you getting ? I would recommend getting at least a 10-12 PSI spring it will give you better control from it being blown open

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

could be that the diaphragm is either ripped, issue with the spring, or it is leaking air. I think your car should be making a lot more power than 372whp @ 12 psi

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I think so too, I will drive it a little and replace those parts before a retune. I'm down about 80 WHP from the damaged engine. Friday was super hot (100+) so I think that played a role in the lower than desired power. The start up and smoothness seems much better with the Hondata. Thanks again for your help with the ECU, it worked perfectly. I had the OBD II wires in the wrong place when we were trying to pair the ECU. I repinned the OBD port without unwrapping the wires from the harness and only had like 2 inches to work with in the garage so if it didn't start I would be ok (slanted driveway). The shop laughed at me, showing how they unwrap the wires to expose 11-12 inches of play to get at the back of the OBD port.

Congratulations on the wedding. I bought my Ron Jon wheels when I was on my honeymoon.

screaminz28

iTrader: (1)

Do you have a dyno with the boost curve? The power does seem a tad low @ 12psi. I'd be cautious until you figure out the boost issue - if you're only getting 12psi at the intake, if you have a leak somewhere, couldn't you be spinning the turbo more than needed causing excess heat?

I'm assuming you have a 3 bar map sensor sense you ran 18psi on the MS3. Is the boost cut setting checked in the Flashpro software possibly? I'd assume not since it would limit rpm once you hit 12psi.

It looks like it's not hitting full boot until 4500 or 5000 from the dyno graph. That seems pretty late for 12 psi - it's a 62mm turbo right?

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

I think Hi_speed turbo is the same as accordflex. So he should be closer to 400+ with a smoother curve @ 12 psi.

And you are welcome with the ECU. I was pretty confident that the ecu was working since I had tested it on my car. Glad you found out that it was the wrong wire that was plugged in that was causing all the trouble.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-p...-887133/page3/

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

The change in compression ratio may have some effect, but the car would hit full boost much earlier with the other engines. I have only driven the car home, so I didn't get much chance to see how its running. I will get under the car this week and check all the hose connections. It might be a leak from my methanol injector, the kit is not working and one of those lines could have come out during install. I just thought about that.

I was actually using one way vales to bleeding air around the stock map sensor to keep the ECU happy. Now I'm running a 3 Bar Hondata Map. I don't think flash pro has any control of the boost since I'm running a boost controller. Yes it's a 62mm turbo. It was so hot I didn't want to keep pushing the car and the tuner needed to go so I decided to call it a day. I will monitor IAT temps when I take it out to see if they seems to be high.

screaminz28

iTrader: (1)

The hondata for the tl can't control boost like with a boost control solenoid but it has a fail-safe so you don't exceed a certain amount but it's rpm based. If you kept turning the body controller and just never saw more than 12 psi, it's not the ecu. Since you had dyno runs to redline it's safe to say it wasn't limiting your rpm.

If I recall, usually a lower cr will spool faster. It sounds counter intuitive but there is math behind it. If IHC was around I think he would say the same thing.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

Flashpro has a boost limiter cut. The dyno tuner sent me a base map that cuts fuel and ignition if the car reaches 1 psi. So if your car is not cutting fuel/ignition then it has to be something else.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I drove the car around yesterday after washing it and the start up is much better. Other than that the car runs like complete trash, will not go above looked like 4 psi and was struggling to make power. Seems like something must have gotten worse since the dyno because it is not making near the power it made there and boost is fluctuationing like crazy.

Can I buy the spring and diagram on their own or do I need to buy another waste gate? Guess I will be dropping the car back off this week to look for the issue. Nice thing about a build like this is that you have been without the car for so long that it's not a big deal for it to go back to the shop for a while. I was hoping to be done with this project and move on, but I guess not. Thanks everyone for your help, it's a little embarrassing to post such low numbers after so much work, but I'm confident that I'm close.

UTAH TSX

pull the vacuum hoses off the wastegate and drive it see if you get steady boost it could be the boost controller giving you problems with the fluctuating boost (vacuum hoses not in the right place) ?

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I'll try that and see if it changes anything. Car needs to go back to the shop to fix drivability issues. I think tuning on a 100+ day was a bad idea.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

What wastegate do you have? You can buy replacement for it if it is a tial one. They are 50 bucks for the diagpharm and 30 for the wastegate spring. Try running the car and bypass the boost controller. It might be leaking from the boost controller solenoid.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I think it's a Tial, need to look at it. It's mounted upside down and is hard to get a good look at. I will pull the boost controller out of the equation and see if that changes anything.

If I hit a higher boost level than the tuner did on the dyno for my tune, will I damage the engine? I don't plan to do this, but have always been curious it you are tuned to 15psi and happen to over boost 3-5 psi over if there is no info for what to do at this psi and you lean out hard and kill the engine or the injectors shut off. I have this idea in my head that if you don't fill out the amount of fuel to inject in all situations the computer will not know what to do since you are already operating outside of the stock computers maps.

screaminz28

iTrader: (1)

The short answer is - it depends. The long answer is - if he was a smart tuner, he tuned to 12 psi, and then reduced timing for any maps above that, at least a degree or two per psi.

Typically the boost maps are defaulted - and having a large drop in timing (while much safer than a large increase) isn't that great at all.

For the fueling, I'd be shocked if the tuner stopped at 12 psi on the table and didn't make it richen up above that, just as a safety mechanism.

If you want to send your calibration, I, and I'm sure others would be glad to make sure there isn't anything that sticks out that would be an OMG WTF type of setting.

The worst case is if you overboosted past the point of the map - then it will just have the timing and fueling from the highest MAP portion of the table and it won't go any higher - definitely a case where it could run lean.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I haven't even connected the flash pro to my laptop yet to check it out, I will do that and see if I can figure out how to make a copy of the tune to have someone look at.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

On flashpro just download your map and save to the system. Just make sure you know where you saved it to. I had to set my own my directory

DomGSR-T

iTrader: (1)

If you want, I can check your tune above 12 psi to make sure you are safe if any ''overboost'' occurs just ask

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I will try to play with the flash pro today and see if I can make a copy of the tune. I tried this morning, but didn't get anywhere because I needed to download Flash pro manager and couldn't figure it out in the time I had.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

Any luck or waiting for the weekend to do it?

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I'm pretty sure I was able to save a copy of the tune and a short data log that I sent to Dom to look at. I am really happy with the flash pro and the ease of data logging, just need to figure out my boost issue. Don't think I can even boost 2 psi at the moment.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I got a text from Ken ( Thisaznboi88 ) today about how the blow off valve can cause a boost issue if the spring is not installed or possibly the vacuum line was not hooked up. So I decided to look at it tonight and this is what I found. No wonder it wouldn't go into boost and the tune is asking strange. The blow off valve blew off of the intercooler. Yikes, hopefully this is my only issue and I can tune and finally drive this car.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

Glad I could help you out Hopefully, you didn't over spin the turbo with that massive boost leak.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

That thing was a pain to get seated correctly with the snap ring and it can be easily knocked out. Glad you found the problem!

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

Before you go on a WOT drive reset your boost controller since you cranked it all the way to max. You dont want to see 20PSI after fixing that boost leak issue.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Last Friday I brought the car back to the shop to fix the blow off issue and retune it to bring things closer to the number I'm looking for. The issues with drivability were undoubtedly caused by the lack of BOV and huge hole it left in the intercooler where it was connected prior to making its escape. Lucky for me the C- clip was still in the bumper connected to the BOV and the shop was able to get a O-ring to reconnect the BOV. As soon as the car was up on the dyno it made an additional 50 WHP and 70 TQ with about 1 more pound of boost about 12 PSI. The last tune was about 10-11 PSI and I'm pretty sure the BOV fell off on my way home, so this drive home was much better. The car runs amazing, boost comes in much faster and more smoothly. I am still having an issue that won't let me boost higher than 12-13 PSI, but I'm close enough to my goal that I'm going to drive it as is for a while. I'm pretty sure there is still something wrong with the BOV that I will look into in the future. There is definitely some concern about the damage done to the turbo during the runs I did trying to figure out the issue. I knew there was something pretty wrong so I only took it out twice, but I hit 4 PSI on a nice WOT run with a 2 inch hole in the intercooler. When I got home I noticed smoke from the turbo blanket and thought it was just oil burning off from the recent build. Now looking back I think that was the turbo burning the 1800 degree insulation of the turbo blanket. Again I'm very happy with the result, the car moves well outside of boost which was a concern with the 9:5 to 1 compression and absolutely explodes with power when on it. I'm going to drive it a little to see what the coolant temps are like and decide if a better radiator is in my future. I have been looking around for a 3 row all aluminum radiator that will fit, if anyone knows of one. Here is a pic of the dyno sheet to see the final results.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Not sure where you could find an off the shelf radiator of that thickness. Something like that would have to be custom I'd think.

Also, though you didn't explain the exact issue, I'm assuming you're seeing elevated coolant temps as most of boosted cars are seeing. I've had the best experience with a combination of a few different things. The most recent (and the best so far) has been the use of a low temp Mishimoto thermostat. It's easily dropped my temps down from an average of 200+ down to around 180-185 even after WOT runs and rarely climbs above 190 most of time. I was able to reinstall my slim Mishimoto fans (1100cfm each, ugh) after the install of the low temp thermostat. And though I did tune for it and modify my calibration to adapt things to the lower coolant temps, there was very few things that were done.

Prior to that, I ran some Oem Nissan Altima fans that are shrouded almost perfectly for the 7th gen Accord (same as TL I believe) and that did great things for the car as well and definitely helped maintain lower temps WHILE running AC. Side note: I'm no longer running AC as of now. Those fans were the shit. Pulled around 24 amps and hummed like a hurricane. Highly recommend these fans over your stockers any day!

Last but not least, go crazy on your ducting and shrouding. Direct as much airflow through the core as possible. I used standard aluminum sheet from Lowes and used tin snips to cut out custom ducts of which helped quite a bit. Be careful not to stack cores as commonly done. If you throw a massively thick intercooler in front of your radiator, massive airflow or not, it WILL restrict flow into the radiator not to mention become a blockage for the intercooler in the first place. It's better to spread out heat exchangers as best as possible so that each has its own airflow path and allows exiting air to flow without blockage.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

The radiator is seeping some coolant, no high coolant temps that I know of. I'm going to take the car out and monitor temps to see if there are issues. I have the oil cooler off to the side of the bumper and away from the intercooler, but as far as the intercooler and radiator locations they are pretty fixed and everything is all sandwiched together. I'm looking at a 2008 WRX 3 row performance radiator that is pretty close in size to stock, fans and a shroud are the issue since I'm sure it's thicker.

screaminz28

iTrader: (1)

Much nicer numbers! Do you happen to have a copy with it logging boost by chance, or one with torque as well? I'd like to see where you are hitting full boost and how the torque curve looks. Have you ever used WinPep? It's a free download and you can get a copy of your dyno run files. Pretty handy software.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I don't have a log with boost since the dyno has no idea what the boost pressure is. I will try to get a print out like posted earlier of the dyno sheet from the shop, I haven't used WiinPep. I forgot while I was there and only have the pic of the screen showing the Hp and TQ curves. I think it's making full boost at lower Rpm on the street than the dyno chart indicates. Not sure if the flash pro will log that info in terms of manifold vacuum or boost, but maybe.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

nice!! looks like you got good numbers and constant boost pressures. i am still street tuning my car.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Took the car out today and it's very fast, hit the 17psi boost cut at 5k rpm so that adds another chapter to the story. Not sure why is would only boost 12-13ish in the Dyno and try to hit 20 on the street. 17 psi felt really strong, much more than the dyno would suggest. Coolant temps were not too bad 185-195 most of the time some in traffic. I will take it on some longer drives to see how it behaves, but so far wow.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

maybe the dyno was not loading the car correctly? glad your car is fum again

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Thanks, I may employ Dom's services to help me get my o2's back on line and get the boost set right. Going to try to back down the duty cycle on the boost controller to see if I can get control of the boost. Looked over and saw 17 on the boost gauge and thought yikes, makes sense because that felt like a 500 + WHP run. Fuel tables are filled out to boost cut, gauges are hard to look at at that boost level. The aem boost gauge also displays in 10th of a psi so it makes reading the boost level more difficult.

screaminz28

iTrader: (1)

I would expect it to spool faster on the street. A dynojet simulates a 2400lb car, so there's less load than on the street. Back in my turbo B series days, guys would get mad when their 2000lb CRXs and HF Civics wouldn't spool as fast on the street as they did on the dyno.

Dynojet now does have an add on load module but I'd wager most places don't have it. While dynojets are the most popular dyno, it doesn't mean they are the "best" for every scenario, but they work good enough for repeatable results, and their the easiest to use.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I have been playing with the car this week trying get the boost under control and discovered the boost solenoid is not working properly causing the car to behave strangely at low throttle positions. I turned the boost controller all the way off to see much much boost I could make on the spring alone, which was 3.5 psi. I decided to change out the solenoid and turning down the duty cycle on the boost controller so I could finally get the boost under control. At 50% DC I was still hitting the 16 psi boost cut, so I adjusted it to 45% DC and am able to hold 14 psi. The 90% DC setting I was using had the turbo spool extreamly fast, so the new setting is not as aggressive in terms how fast it makes boost. The high duty cycle settings combined with the failing solenoid made part throttle more rough than I was comfortable with. The new setting will be easier on the engine and the car at the expense of some spool speed, but the build is becoming more and more refined.