Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Here are a few more pics to show the tops more clearly.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

The valve relief is identical by spec.

I was referring to the discussion about the clearance for squirters. The bottom corners have circular machining in 4 places. If there it was built for a J35, one of those corners will be milled higher up the skirt.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Looking at them they do look like they are are clearances for the squirters since the skirt is milled higher. Don't think this will cause any issues and is due to using Gerzand's specs since he is running a J35.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Here are some pics of the skirt to see what I think is the clearance for oil squirters.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Definitely different than what I got but I don't think it's going to matter. Works in a J35 so no reason it won't work in a J32.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

its soo pretty

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

The engine is almost done being assembled and the exhaust wrap on the piping has seen better days so I decided to rewrap everything. I bought one roll of 2 inch by 50 foot roll of the DEI titanium exhaust wrap and 10 14 inch SS exhaust ties from Summit Racing. This stuff is very nice, looks amazing and is easy to put on.

Started with the down pipe and everything was going great. Did the under oil pan connector, installed the ties and noticed there was a little part not over lapped right. So I cut the ties and rewrapped 2 more times but, couldn't get the wrap to cover all the way again. I used the last piece I had to wrap the smallest piece (back exhaust collector ) and that piece was too short to make work as well. I decided to unwrap the under oil pan connector and use that piece to wrap the smallest piece.

The 4th piece of the turbo kit is still connected to the turbo and I will wrap that later before install, hopefully using the 2 pieces I wasted. I still need to buy another 50 foot roll to finish up the piece I messed up. The more gentle you are with this stuff the better is turns out, I was trying to wrap it too tight and that ended up messing me up and leaving a exposed seam after I had used 3 of my 10 ties. It comes out looking so amazing I'm not too mad about messing up and needing more wrap.
Here are a few pics.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

Thats some good tip!

UTAH TSX

Yeah , looking good can't wait to see it up and running. I have never bought enough wrap always short by 3-4 feet, I wrapped my whole exhaust trying to reduce droan (didn't help much felt like I just wasted a ton of money) When do you think this will be up and running ?

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I'm very close, engine is done at the machine shop and is all assembled. I just need tie up some loose ends and start the install. I'm switching over to Hondata, so I'm hoping that won't be a struggle. I give it another 2 months before I'm up and running, just to be safe. I'm sure you know all too well this is the time when shit goes sideways with the build. Time to see how all these parts fit back together and work with the new parts. I have changed the engine, gauges, clutch and flywheel, boost controller, and engine management. Tuning is another stressful area, $150 per hour and the MS3 took 8-9 (paid $650)hrs to set a good tune. The Honda better be easier and faster to tune or my tuner is not going to return my calls.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

No flat rate tuning in San Jose?

screaminz28

iTrader: (1)

I recall you said you had some issues with the MS3 - what all were they?

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Funny idle and throttle response. Ease of setup and complexity of tuning is a pain. As far as flat rate or cheaper tuning, I have too much money and time in the car to risk it. Part of the many hours of tuning is sitting on the dyno adjusting fueling at every rpm and gear to get the best street manners possible. The MS3 is more of a race car setup, were you have to set each parameter versus I'm hoping the Hondata will be a little more refined and OEM interms of behavior.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

I had the same issue with wandering idle. Because the MS3 is a piggyback to the stock ECU, the idle control was still in the hands of the stock ECU to some degree. It monitors IIRC the brakes and AC to compensate the idle.

Andy had it dialed better by I believe by increasing the resolution at the low end of the map to get the idle more stable.

The one thing I liked about the MS3 compared to the Hondata solution is the extra I/O. But it was very difficult to find a tuner with experience.

I have an IACV that I was going to try implementing but decided to do the ECU for Hondata instead.

screaminz28

iTrader: (1)

I know Andy is running a Hondata and is advertising his Rotrex setup as "reliable" but I really wonder if the majority of his success has been due to the multi-port heads he's running.

I really hope the Hondata isn't contributing to any of the failures we've seen so far, but I'm still not convinced that the stock ECU logic is "completely decoded." Hondata is a great company and super-knowledgeable guys so no offense to them at all. I bought one of the first 300 Hondata Stage 3Bs back when they were just getting started. My concern is with the newer ecus, 'features' and tables are added in each update as more is learned about how the ecu functions. I'm still not convinced that there is a full understanding or control over the 'knock control' method Honda uses in the TL. If I recall in the Civic, they lobbied to be able to turn off knock control completely yet still maintain the coolant temp retard, which we lose (or used to - i haven't kept up if they did that for the TL yet). If they did, I'd disable that mess in a split second.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

has anyone tired k-tuner yet?

Last time I was at the dyno tune the owner told me there were so issue and glitches in the flashpro. But that has been over a year ago. So I know if it has been fixed at all or not. Most of the flashpro update had be towards the new cars.

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

For the record, my success is not related to the head swap in regards to my Rotrex supercharger solution. My customers will see the same success as I have, all while running single-port exhaust (heads).

The reason that heads were swapped was primarily done in preparation for my 225 shot nitrous oxide setup as a method to best remove heat from the engine heads. Exhaust gas temps in a nitrous application are high in comparison to equivalent horsepower achieved by Rotrex supercharging the jseries engine. In a turbo application it would also be beneficial to swap to multi-port exhaust exit (heads), or to use extremely long exhaust primaries as some jseries owners have done with their exhaust manifold designs.

screaminz28

iTrader: (1)

Doh! I recently read your head swap thread and I do recall your mentioning the large nitrous shot being the reason you did the swap.

I was just thinking that the multi-port heads may have had an ancillary benefit of being more reliable than the single port in an FI engine.

I would think that the rotrex would behave similar to nitrous in its preference for larger exhaust primaries, would it not? What makes the rotrex more reliable than a turbo then? Is it merely that since the boost is RPM based, there won't be the potential for 'too much boost at a low rpm'?

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

No, its not a big deal with the Rotrex supercharger due to low charge temps (at the throttle body).

There are many different reasons why 3rd gen Acura TL's and many accords do not work well with turbo setups and therefore why I consider them to be generally less reliable that my Rotrex supercharger kit design .

1) There is no exhaust backpressure in a supercharged engine. Therefore, even given identical charge temps between any given turbo TL and Rotrex supercharged, less heat is retained inside the cylinder due to better exhaust gas scavenging which evacuates the cylinder more thoroughly of said exhaust gases. This in turn means that less heat energy is absorbed by the cooling system (radiator). An engine running at a relatively normal operating when under stress will live a longer life, as engine oil can do its job better, thermal expansion of engine internals is minimized, and risks for pre-detonation (outside of the realm of fuel system, fuel quality, or spark component failure) is lowered.

2) Rotrex gives the advantage of lower engine bay temps in the 3rd gen TL engine bay. As we all know quite well, air circulates quite poorly through the bay, which isn't made any worse with a Rotrex supercharger setup since any major source of heat (aside from the engine block itself) is absent. In an in-bay turbo setup, pressurized exhaust gases makes everything extremely hot. This includes, but is not limited to: the turbo manifold piping, turbo itself, oil (and possibly coolant) used to cool the turbo which is then sent back to the engine, etc. This heatsoak then begins to impact IATS, charge Temps, and the engines cooling system's ability to maintain great temperatures under 200 degrees. Its a vicious cycle. The Rotrex supercharger on a jseries avoids 99.9% of this, as it is generates very little heat, has its own oil supply, allows exhaust gases to evacuate quickly, and doesn't burden the engines cooling system. It takes a half of a liter of fluid, and needs emptied similarly to a hydraulic power steering, albeit once every 2years or 60k miles.

3)The horsepower and torques curve on an otherwise stock J-Series engine are generally quite linear, due to the onset of boost being linear and rpm based. This also results in a car which has instantaneous response and can make power to a high rpm, all while saving a transmission (or even engine internals) when driven aggressively due to the steady onset of torque which doesn't shock the drivetrain when "boost comes on". Even though belt driven, in my kit boost can be controlled using a wastegate to build low end rpm torque marginally quicker by driving the blower with a smaller pulley that still falls within the blowers peak input shaft rpm/efficiency range. This allows the car to be boost controlled dynamically through boost settings in the tune with an Electronic Boost Controller (EBC) or manually through the same wastegate port settings utilizing vacuum ports on a Synapse Synchronic unit. It's awesome.

4) No need for water, water/meth, meth, etc injection, even at 11:1+ CR due to many of the points listed in points 1 through 3 above!

Hope this helps

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Finished up wrapping the last piece today and of course I need more ties even with two summit orders this week. Two rolls ended up working perfectly, with a small amount left over. I have everything wrapped just need those last ties and I'm done. One step closer to install, the old wrap was super nasty and this stuff seems much better.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

Jack what brand did you use? I might just redo my thermal wrap also because it is very flaky

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

It's DEI titanium exhaust wrap. $52.97 for a 50 foot by 2 inch roll. Got it from Summit Racing just to have it faster and to get the stainless steel zip ties, $12 for 8 ties. It's lava rock so no fiberglass nastiness, doesn't have to be wet and applies very well. Definitely use gloves to remove the old wrap, I went full face mask, gloves and long sleeve shirt for removal. Ebay might have it cheaper but, with all the super cheap "lava rock /carbon fiber wrap" I wanted to make sure I was getting the real stuff and didn't want to wait a week. I used a regular zip tie to see how long of a tie to use and ended up getting the 14 inch long version just to be big enough for the larger down pipe. I also screwed up a lot of ties and recommend ordering more than you think you will need. This stuff looks so amazing in person, the pics don't do it justice.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Went by the shop today to drop off the turbo kit all nice and wrapped. I got some pics of the new block and Pistons ready to be installed. I was also able to get a look at the old pistons and assess the damage. Took a few pics to show what happened. I think this must have been why the engine was burning oil even when Bert had it. Still need to get a Gates racing timing belt , which I'm still trying to decide if it's worthwhile.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

You can see the ring lands are bent on both Pistons, it makes sense with the amount of oil it was using and the speed at which it would foul that oil. Half the excitement is to have the car done and the other half is the ability to use the garage again by moving the car out. My driveway is slopped so the car has been sitting in the garage unmovable for awhile.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Wow! Looking at the pistons in that shot, they don't look crowned.

I am looking at switching over to Andy's setup and selling my turbo and exhaust piping to help cover the cost.

Not sure if anyone will be able to get this detonation under control with the single port heads.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Are you going to the Rotex kit or both the older heads and Rotex? What do mean by crowned? I was thinking the Rotex kit might be nice for all the emissions stuff we have out here in terms of being more easily removed.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Crowned meaning high compression pistons.

I'm thinking just the kit. Andy stated that the SC won't have the heat related issues we are all seeing with the turbo.

The swap to J32A2 heads may help with the turbo but we are looking at head work and new exhaust piping.

Still deciding. Will be running without FI for a while to break in the engine.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

It there a site where Andy has more info on the kit ? Pretty sure I'm on the last chapter with modifying the TL, just interested to see the costs and power increases.

CBP08TL

iTrader: (2)

"Full kits starting at $4,650 for 425+whp and 400+wtq"

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

No website I know of but he's got different packages pre-defined. Can't post here since he's not a vendor. Contact him directly.

UTAH TSX

Do you know what cylinder the bad pistons came out of ??

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

The old block is at the shop so I can look at it. I do remember 2 scored cylinders, I'm thinking on the rear bank. My plan is to make a coffee table out of the old block and Pistons with a glass top If I can talk my wife into it. If not I will try to selling it, the scrapes are pretty minor. The one thing I can't do is have two j32 blocks sitting in the garage taking up space.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

Coffee table sounds nice.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Engine is together, ready for install.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

The car is almost done, while tuning the fuel pump died. It is going to be a few weeks before the tuner can get back to it. I am trying to figure out which fuel pump to buy. I was running a Walbro 250 and am looking into going with a better pump. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I think some members are using the Aeromotive pump, I am just concerned about the new pump fitting in my fuel pump basket

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

I heard DEATSCHWERKS 265LPH was also good and didn't have the overheating problem that the walbro 250 had. Don't quote me on that though

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I'm looking at the Aeromotive 340. Aeromotive has a 325 that summit lists as working with Honda! Acura and some others, but I don't see how it differs from the 340 and the 325 cost $50 more. I need to get a look at the fuel pump basket I have in the car, I had to use a basket from another year Honda to make the return fuel system work. Just want to make sure it will fit and whether I need the more expensive pump.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

I just went back into the old thread and it looks like I have the 340.

It was first setup in the non-return install so it's the same height as the stock pump. But there are different options for the pickup.

I'll see if I can dig up any pics of my pump

flexer

I would go with the aeromotive 340. Should work perfect for what you're trying to accomplish. Your close now.

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

The stock 3rd gen TL basket requires slight modifications to fit the Aeromotive 340 pump, but after those mods it can still insert and seal. Stainless metal ties will be needed to secure the pump, however.

BTW, the stock pickup sock is good for 425whp with the OEM PWM (pulse width modulation) pump control on E85 ethanol with no pressure drop at the rail with a stock supply line and -6an return line. This is at 55psi base fuel pressure with a vacuum assisted Aeromotive A1000 -6an regulator on a 970cc (rated at 43.5psi) on 7psi boost pressure J35.