Experiments on air intake temperatures
09-11-2012, 12:04 PM
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Experiments on air intake temperatures
Hey all. I've been a bit of a threadstarter lately but wanted to share some experiments I've ran lately on air intake temps (AIT's). I recently picked up a Garmin which monitors AIT's and have dinked around with various configurations to lower them as much as possible. For the most part, they're consistent with what's been said here already but with a few caveats.
First, I've noticed that the TL is especially sensitive to AIT's. Yes, I know this is already well established around here. But there are several videos and threads discussing the real power output effects of AIT's with some of them stating that it's not as big a deal as some think. With some cars, this may be true. But with the nature of the j-series engines (aggressive timing, compression ratio, etc.) AIT's are a pretty big deal and can significantly affect power output.
My current setup is as follows: Cheapo eBay CAI w/ AEM dryflow filter. Outlaw spacer kit (intake manifold and throttle body). UCM - Ultimate cooling mod.
Short Ram vs. Cold Air Intake - Using a cheapo eBay CAI and an AEM dryflow filter, my AIT's are between 8-20F higher than ambient temps as recorded on the MID. Typical is 10-15F higher with 20F being more common when idling for over a minute. This is pretty consistent regardless of ambient temp (ie. Ambient temp 70F, I'll see 80-85F IAT. Ambient temp 100F, I'll see 110-115F IAT). I've rarely gone over 20F above ambient. For example - it was 95F outside according to the MID about a week ago. The highest AIT I got was 114F when in line at the ATM for about two minutes.
My CAI can convert into a short ram. Since I'm all about weight loss, I figured I'd remove the lower pipe and give this a try. The filter was at the far right side of the engine bay behind the battery. I figured I'd get a little higher temps since some of the air would be from the engine bay. However, there's a pretty big area that exposes this part of the bay to outside air so I expected AIT's to be maybe 25-30F above ambient. I was wrong. Average AIT's were around 45-50F above ambient with it peaking at nearly 60F . It was 65F outside and my AIT's were hovering between 110-125F. My car probably thought it was 95F outside when it was a nice cool morning. The afternoon was even worse. 85F or so. AIT's? Probably the highest the car's ever seen - 135-145F. Power loss wasn't just significant, it was depressing. You'd think two or three of the cylinders were misfiring, or that I was towing a trailer. But I wanted to confirm my findings so I left it on for another day. Next day? Same thing. CAI went right back on and temps returned back to normal. Moral of the story - Short Ram is a boatload of fail.
CAI insulation - I fabricated a CAI insulator similar to Tim's in this thread: https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=606142&page=2
I had some of the Styrofoam that he used wrapped the home depot insulation over it. I used metal tape like his. Mine didn't look as good but I feel it's probably the same as far as effectiveness . What I've noticed is that idle AIT's seem to have decreased a bit, maybe 2-3F. And that it takes longer for heatsoak to hit, where AIT's are a consistent 10-15F above ambient rather than 5-8F like in the first several minutes of driving. But after heatsoak hits, it's about the same. AIT's have decreased a negligible amount after heatsoak kicks in. It delays heatsoak a bit but in the end it's the same. Maybe 1-2F reduction after heatsoak. I'll leave it on because it's light and certainly doesn't hurt. But I wouldn't spend a ton of time or money on this.
Outlaw TB and IM spaces - I was very excited to install my outlaw spacers. However, I have noticed almost no change to AIT's
. I almost wonder if I did it wrong, though you can't really screw it up. I think that the UCM might negate the benefit of the spacers by keeping a constant flow of air hovering above the IM, therefore eliminating a lot of the heat that would otherwise heatsoak it. Before I ever installed the spacers I noticed what Tim (inaccurate) said: That the intake manifold was quite hot after driving, to the point that touching it for more than a second or two would result in a burn. But with the UCM, it was cool enough to the touch to place your hand on it. Either way, negligible reduction in AIT's.
Anyway, I hope this info is helpful to someone interested in reducing air intake temperatures. If anyone has further ideas to close my 10-15F gap, I'm all ears.
But at this point, I'm pretty happy with it.
First, I've noticed that the TL is especially sensitive to AIT's. Yes, I know this is already well established around here. But there are several videos and threads discussing the real power output effects of AIT's with some of them stating that it's not as big a deal as some think. With some cars, this may be true. But with the nature of the j-series engines (aggressive timing, compression ratio, etc.) AIT's are a pretty big deal and can significantly affect power output.
My current setup is as follows: Cheapo eBay CAI w/ AEM dryflow filter. Outlaw spacer kit (intake manifold and throttle body). UCM - Ultimate cooling mod.
Short Ram vs. Cold Air Intake - Using a cheapo eBay CAI and an AEM dryflow filter, my AIT's are between 8-20F higher than ambient temps as recorded on the MID. Typical is 10-15F higher with 20F being more common when idling for over a minute. This is pretty consistent regardless of ambient temp (ie. Ambient temp 70F, I'll see 80-85F IAT. Ambient temp 100F, I'll see 110-115F IAT). I've rarely gone over 20F above ambient. For example - it was 95F outside according to the MID about a week ago. The highest AIT I got was 114F when in line at the ATM for about two minutes.
My CAI can convert into a short ram. Since I'm all about weight loss, I figured I'd remove the lower pipe and give this a try. The filter was at the far right side of the engine bay behind the battery. I figured I'd get a little higher temps since some of the air would be from the engine bay. However, there's a pretty big area that exposes this part of the bay to outside air so I expected AIT's to be maybe 25-30F above ambient. I was wrong. Average AIT's were around 45-50F above ambient with it peaking at nearly 60F . It was 65F outside and my AIT's were hovering between 110-125F. My car probably thought it was 95F outside when it was a nice cool morning. The afternoon was even worse. 85F or so. AIT's? Probably the highest the car's ever seen - 135-145F. Power loss wasn't just significant, it was depressing. You'd think two or three of the cylinders were misfiring, or that I was towing a trailer. But I wanted to confirm my findings so I left it on for another day. Next day? Same thing. CAI went right back on and temps returned back to normal. Moral of the story - Short Ram is a boatload of fail.
CAI insulation - I fabricated a CAI insulator similar to Tim's in this thread: https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=606142&page=2
I had some of the Styrofoam that he used wrapped the home depot insulation over it. I used metal tape like his. Mine didn't look as good but I feel it's probably the same as far as effectiveness . What I've noticed is that idle AIT's seem to have decreased a bit, maybe 2-3F. And that it takes longer for heatsoak to hit, where AIT's are a consistent 10-15F above ambient rather than 5-8F like in the first several minutes of driving. But after heatsoak hits, it's about the same. AIT's have decreased a negligible amount after heatsoak kicks in. It delays heatsoak a bit but in the end it's the same. Maybe 1-2F reduction after heatsoak. I'll leave it on because it's light and certainly doesn't hurt. But I wouldn't spend a ton of time or money on this.
Outlaw TB and IM spaces - I was very excited to install my outlaw spacers. However, I have noticed almost no change to AIT's
. I almost wonder if I did it wrong, though you can't really screw it up. I think that the UCM might negate the benefit of the spacers by keeping a constant flow of air hovering above the IM, therefore eliminating a lot of the heat that would otherwise heatsoak it. Before I ever installed the spacers I noticed what Tim (inaccurate) said: That the intake manifold was quite hot after driving, to the point that touching it for more than a second or two would result in a burn. But with the UCM, it was cool enough to the touch to place your hand on it. Either way, negligible reduction in AIT's. Anyway, I hope this info is helpful to someone interested in reducing air intake temperatures. If anyone has further ideas to close my 10-15F gap, I'm all ears.
But at this point, I'm pretty happy with it.
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09-11-2012, 12:24 PM
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Very nice observations. Should be a useful thread for those comparing or questioning which mods to do.
hopefully this will get "stickied" and other members can add their experiences as well. Not butt dyno, but real world measurement like the above post.
hopefully this will get "stickied" and other members can add their experiences as well. Not butt dyno, but real world measurement like the above post.
09-11-2012, 01:48 PM
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Thanks! My experiences may not reflect everyones. For example, the spacers may be more effective for those not doing the UCM (which are most of us). And insulation effectiveness may vary from one compound to another.
Also, the Short Ram would probably be effective if some sort of ice box or fresh air source was fabricated like what Meko did. The short ram did sound pretty cool. But I'd like to think the majority of the TL crowd would do mods for the purposes of performance with sound being an afterthought or side effect. And if the sound came at the cost of performance, well, that just doesn't make any sense to me.
If I still had my stock intake I'd be interested in reinstalling it to see what kind of temps it would introduce. Granted, there's a little restriction in it as well so it's not completely apples to apples. But with the stock intake taking air from the front bumper and the abs/plastic material resisting heat soak, I'd think AIT's might be pretty good with it.
My experiences may not reflect everyones. For example, the spacers may be more effective for those not doing the UCM (which are most of us). And insulation effectiveness may vary from one compound to another.Also, the Short Ram would probably be effective if some sort of ice box or fresh air source was fabricated like what Meko did. The short ram did sound pretty cool. But I'd like to think the majority of the TL crowd would do mods for the purposes of performance with sound being an afterthought or side effect. And if the sound came at the cost of performance, well, that just doesn't make any sense to me.
If I still had my stock intake I'd be interested in reinstalling it to see what kind of temps it would introduce. Granted, there's a little restriction in it as well so it's not completely apples to apples. But with the stock intake taking air from the front bumper and the abs/plastic material resisting heat soak, I'd think AIT's might be pretty good with it.
09-11-2012, 07:28 PM
#6
Hey all. I've been a bit of a threadstarter lately but wanted to share some experiments I've ran lately on air intake temps (AIT's). I recently picked up a Garmin which monitors AIT's and have dinked around with various configurations to lower them as much as possible. For the most part, they're consistent with what's been said here already but with a few caveats.
First, I've noticed that the TL is especially sensitive to AIT's. Yes, I know this is already well established around here. But there are several videos and threads discussing the real power output effects of AIT's with some of them stating that it's not as big a deal as some think. With some cars, this may be true. But with the nature of the j-series engines (aggressive timing, compression ratio, etc.) AIT's are a pretty big deal and can significantly affect power output.
My current setup is as follows: Cheapo eBay CAI w/ AEM dryflow filter. Outlaw spacer kit (intake manifold and throttle body). UCM - Ultimate cooling mod.
Short Ram vs. Cold Air Intake - Using a cheapo eBay CAI and an AEM dryflow filter, my AIT's are between 8-20F higher than ambient temps as recorded on the MID. Typical is 10-15F higher with 20F being more common when idling for over a minute. This is pretty consistent regardless of ambient temp (ie. Ambient temp 70F, I'll see 80-85F IAT. Ambient temp 100F, I'll see 110-115F IAT). I've rarely gone over 20F above ambient. For example - it was 95F outside according to the MID about a week ago. The highest AIT I got was 114F when in line at the ATM for about two minutes.
My CAI can convert into a short ram. Since I'm all about weight loss, I figured I'd remove the lower pipe and give this a try. The filter was at the far right side of the engine bay behind the battery. I figured I'd get a little higher temps since some of the air would be from the engine bay. However, there's a pretty big area that exposes this part of the bay to outside air so I expected AIT's to be maybe 25-30F above ambient. I was wrong. Average AIT's were around 45-50F above ambient with it peaking at nearly 60F . It was 65F outside and my AIT's were hovering between 110-125F. My car probably thought it was 95F outside when it was a nice cool morning. The afternoon was even worse. 85F or so. AIT's? Probably the highest the car's ever seen - 135-145F. Power loss wasn't just significant, it was depressing. You'd think two or three of the cylinders were misfiring, or that I was towing a trailer. But I wanted to confirm my findings so I left it on for another day. Next day? Same thing. CAI went right back on and temps returned back to normal. Moral of the story - Short Ram is a boatload of fail.
CAI insulation - I fabricated a CAI insulator similar to Tim's in this thread: https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=606142&page=2
I had some of the Styrofoam that he used wrapped the home depot insulation over it. I used metal tape like his. Mine didn't look as good but I feel it's probably the same as far as effectiveness . What I've noticed is that idle AIT's seem to have decreased a bit, maybe 2-3F. And that it takes longer for heatsoak to hit, where AIT's are a consistent 10-15F above ambient rather than 5-8F like in the first several minutes of driving. But after heatsoak hits, it's about the same. AIT's have decreased a negligible amount after heatsoak kicks in. It delays heatsoak a bit but in the end it's the same. Maybe 1-2F reduction after heatsoak. I'll leave it on because it's light and certainly doesn't hurt. But I wouldn't spend a ton of time or money on this.
Outlaw TB and IM spaces - I was very excited to install my outlaw spacers. However, I have noticed almost no change to AIT's. I almost wonder if I did it wrong, though you can't really screw it up. I think that the UCM might negate the benefit of the spacers by keeping a constant flow of air hovering above the IM, therefore eliminating a lot of the heat that would otherwise heatsoak it. Before I ever installed the spacers I noticed what Tim (inaccurate) said: That the intake manifold was quite hot after driving, to the point that touching it for more than a second or two would result in a burn. But with the UCM, it was cool enough to the touch to place your hand on it. Either way, negligible reduction in AIT's.
Anyway, I hope this info is helpful to someone interested in reducing air intake temperatures. If anyone has further ideas to close my 10-15F gap, I'm all ears. But at this point, I'm pretty happy with it.
First, I've noticed that the TL is especially sensitive to AIT's. Yes, I know this is already well established around here. But there are several videos and threads discussing the real power output effects of AIT's with some of them stating that it's not as big a deal as some think. With some cars, this may be true. But with the nature of the j-series engines (aggressive timing, compression ratio, etc.) AIT's are a pretty big deal and can significantly affect power output.
My current setup is as follows: Cheapo eBay CAI w/ AEM dryflow filter. Outlaw spacer kit (intake manifold and throttle body). UCM - Ultimate cooling mod.
Short Ram vs. Cold Air Intake - Using a cheapo eBay CAI and an AEM dryflow filter, my AIT's are between 8-20F higher than ambient temps as recorded on the MID. Typical is 10-15F higher with 20F being more common when idling for over a minute. This is pretty consistent regardless of ambient temp (ie. Ambient temp 70F, I'll see 80-85F IAT. Ambient temp 100F, I'll see 110-115F IAT). I've rarely gone over 20F above ambient. For example - it was 95F outside according to the MID about a week ago. The highest AIT I got was 114F when in line at the ATM for about two minutes.
My CAI can convert into a short ram. Since I'm all about weight loss, I figured I'd remove the lower pipe and give this a try. The filter was at the far right side of the engine bay behind the battery. I figured I'd get a little higher temps since some of the air would be from the engine bay. However, there's a pretty big area that exposes this part of the bay to outside air so I expected AIT's to be maybe 25-30F above ambient. I was wrong. Average AIT's were around 45-50F above ambient with it peaking at nearly 60F . It was 65F outside and my AIT's were hovering between 110-125F. My car probably thought it was 95F outside when it was a nice cool morning. The afternoon was even worse. 85F or so. AIT's? Probably the highest the car's ever seen - 135-145F. Power loss wasn't just significant, it was depressing. You'd think two or three of the cylinders were misfiring, or that I was towing a trailer. But I wanted to confirm my findings so I left it on for another day. Next day? Same thing. CAI went right back on and temps returned back to normal. Moral of the story - Short Ram is a boatload of fail.
CAI insulation - I fabricated a CAI insulator similar to Tim's in this thread: https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=606142&page=2
I had some of the Styrofoam that he used wrapped the home depot insulation over it. I used metal tape like his. Mine didn't look as good but I feel it's probably the same as far as effectiveness . What I've noticed is that idle AIT's seem to have decreased a bit, maybe 2-3F. And that it takes longer for heatsoak to hit, where AIT's are a consistent 10-15F above ambient rather than 5-8F like in the first several minutes of driving. But after heatsoak hits, it's about the same. AIT's have decreased a negligible amount after heatsoak kicks in. It delays heatsoak a bit but in the end it's the same. Maybe 1-2F reduction after heatsoak. I'll leave it on because it's light and certainly doesn't hurt. But I wouldn't spend a ton of time or money on this.
Outlaw TB and IM spaces - I was very excited to install my outlaw spacers. However, I have noticed almost no change to AIT's
. I almost wonder if I did it wrong, though you can't really screw it up. I think that the UCM might negate the benefit of the spacers by keeping a constant flow of air hovering above the IM, therefore eliminating a lot of the heat that would otherwise heatsoak it. Before I ever installed the spacers I noticed what Tim (inaccurate) said: That the intake manifold was quite hot after driving, to the point that touching it for more than a second or two would result in a burn. But with the UCM, it was cool enough to the touch to place your hand on it. Either way, negligible reduction in AIT's. Anyway, I hope this info is helpful to someone interested in reducing air intake temperatures. If anyone has further ideas to close my 10-15F gap, I'm all ears.
But at this point, I'm pretty happy with it.Trending Topics
09-12-2012, 07:03 PM
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Wow, a very interesting read. Especially since I have a Short Ram.
09-13-2012, 09:28 AM
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Yes, I should have mentioned this. I've done the coolant bypass already. Now that you mention it, I'm almost tempted to put it back to stock to see if it actually makes a difference. 
Yes. I thought about relocating it but based on what I've read here, I'll proabably leave it alone.
Yeah, it might be worth looking into. But I've modified my engine bay quite a bit which has likely changed the air flow dynamics compared to stock. Replacing the battery with a braille, removing the battery mount, plastics and lower air dam, doing the UCM, etc. A stock engine bay might receive more air flow in that corner than mine does due to pressure from the air comming over the engine from the UCM as well as my removal of the front air dam pieces. In other words, you may be receiving more fresh air in that area than I am which may result in lower AIT's even if using a short ram. If you're really interested, I'd experiment a bit and gather some emperical evidence before you change anything.
Yes. I thought about relocating it but based on what I've read here, I'll proabably leave it alone.
Yeah, it might be worth looking into. But I've modified my engine bay quite a bit which has likely changed the air flow dynamics compared to stock. Replacing the battery with a braille, removing the battery mount, plastics and lower air dam, doing the UCM, etc. A stock engine bay might receive more air flow in that corner than mine does due to pressure from the air comming over the engine from the UCM as well as my removal of the front air dam pieces. In other words, you may be receiving more fresh air in that area than I am which may result in lower AIT's even if using a short ram. If you're really interested, I'd experiment a bit and gather some emperical evidence before you change anything.
Last edited by Steven Bell; 09-15-2012 at 02:10 PM. Reason: Merged Posts
09-13-2012, 10:14 AM
#12
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Great observations! In terms of the UCM, you took out the "mesh" where the hood meets the windshield, correct? I may try this when I go to the track to see if it makes a significant difference. You know...it'd be interesting to see what the Garmin thinks 
In regards to what you said about the relationship between the IM spacer and UCM, I agree. I'm going to order one of the spacers because even with the 3.7 manifold, it gets pretty hot. Not quite as hot as the aluminum manifold, but still hot.
In regards to what you said about the relationship between the IM spacer and UCM, I agree. I'm going to order one of the spacers because even with the 3.7 manifold, it gets pretty hot. Not quite as hot as the aluminum manifold, but still hot.
Last edited by Sonnick; 09-13-2012 at 10:16 AM.
09-13-2012, 11:14 AM
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^ I took out the entire plastic cowell which includes the built in mesh. Pic from Tim:
Here's the thread:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/ultimate-cooling-mod-739098/
Here's the thread:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/ultimate-cooling-mod-739098/
09-24-2012, 09:21 AM
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^ Sorry for the delayed response
The general feel I get from searching is that relocating the temp sensor would result in more agressive timing which could result in detonation or knock and decreased mileage. That's probably a worst case scenario however. I'd bet this wouldn't be the issue most of the time since we're talking a pretty mellow timing difference (ie. if the ecu thinks it's pulling in 70F air when it's really 80F).
It's something I could see myself experimenting with but haven't bothered just yet. Also, I'm getting stellar mileage right now. Averaging 32 MPG's between highway and city. This has been a gradual change with weight loss and efficiency mods. I've really got the car right where I want it: the most output it's had since I purchased it with the best mileage at the same time. There's a part of me that doesn't want to mess it up. Obviously if relocating the sensor goofed up the mileage significantly then I could just put it back. Maybe reset the ECU for good measure though it would probably be unnecessary. But the paranoid side of me just wants to let it be since I've never messed with manipulating sensors before.
The general feel I get from searching is that relocating the temp sensor would result in more agressive timing which could result in detonation or knock and decreased mileage. That's probably a worst case scenario however. I'd bet this wouldn't be the issue most of the time since we're talking a pretty mellow timing difference (ie. if the ecu thinks it's pulling in 70F air when it's really 80F).
It's something I could see myself experimenting with but haven't bothered just yet. Also, I'm getting stellar mileage right now. Averaging 32 MPG's between highway and city. This has been a gradual change with weight loss and efficiency mods. I've really got the car right where I want it: the most output it's had since I purchased it with the best mileage at the same time. There's a part of me that doesn't want to mess it up
. Obviously if relocating the sensor goofed up the mileage significantly then I could just put it back. Maybe reset the ECU for good measure though it would probably be unnecessary. But the paranoid side of me just wants to let it be since I've never messed with manipulating sensors before.
Last edited by losiglow; 09-24-2012 at 09:26 AM.
09-25-2012, 04:24 PM
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GREAT INFO BRO !!!
observations were spot on....
got couple questions thow, do you have pix of your setup? each of em? I would like to see where exactly was the filter sitting.
with my insulated CAI, I could drive in 100deg weather and the manifold and TB would still be cool to touch....with my SRI, its kinda the same...only difference being i ditched the splash guard which sits under the bumper and pushes air up....
but yeah now the IAT sensor is siting in the bumper opening and the IAT's is always very close to the ambient temp
observations were spot on....
got couple questions thow, do you have pix of your setup? each of em? I would like to see where exactly was the filter sitting.
with my insulated CAI, I could drive in 100deg weather and the manifold and TB would still be cool to touch....with my SRI, its kinda the same...only difference being i ditched the splash guard which sits under the bumper and pushes air up....
but yeah now the IAT sensor is siting in the bumper opening and the IAT's is always very close to the ambient temp
09-26-2012, 02:18 PM
#18
^ Sorry for the delayed response
The general feel I get from searching is that relocating the temp sensor would result in more agressive timing which could result in detonation or knock and decreased mileage. That's probably a worst case scenario however. I'd bet this wouldn't be the issue most of the time since we're talking a pretty mellow timing difference (ie. if the ecu thinks it's pulling in 70F air when it's really 80F).
It's something I could see myself experimenting with but haven't bothered just yet. Also, I'm getting stellar mileage right now. Averaging 32 MPG's between highway and city. This has been a gradual change with weight loss and efficiency mods. I've really got the car right where I want it: the most output it's had since I purchased it with the best mileage at the same time. There's a part of me that doesn't want to mess it up. Obviously if relocating the sensor goofed up the mileage significantly then I could just put it back. Maybe reset the ECU for good measure though it would probably be unnecessary. But the paranoid side of me just wants to let it be since I've never messed with manipulating sensors before.
The general feel I get from searching is that relocating the temp sensor would result in more agressive timing which could result in detonation or knock and decreased mileage. That's probably a worst case scenario however. I'd bet this wouldn't be the issue most of the time since we're talking a pretty mellow timing difference (ie. if the ecu thinks it's pulling in 70F air when it's really 80F).
It's something I could see myself experimenting with but haven't bothered just yet. Also, I'm getting stellar mileage right now. Averaging 32 MPG's between highway and city. This has been a gradual change with weight loss and efficiency mods. I've really got the car right where I want it: the most output it's had since I purchased it with the best mileage at the same time. There's a part of me that doesn't want to mess it up
. Obviously if relocating the sensor goofed up the mileage significantly then I could just put it back. Maybe reset the ECU for good measure though it would probably be unnecessary. But the paranoid side of me just wants to let it be since I've never messed with manipulating sensors before.
09-26-2012, 03:15 PM
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GREAT INFO BRO !!!
observations were spot on....
got couple questions thow, do you have pix of your setup? each of em? I would like to see where exactly was the filter sitting.
with my insulated CAI, I could drive in 100deg weather and the manifold and TB would still be cool to touch....with my SRI, its kinda the same...only difference being i ditched the splash guard which sits under the bumper and pushes air up....
but yeah now the IAT sensor is siting in the bumper opening and the IAT's is always very close to the ambient temp
observations were spot on....
got couple questions thow, do you have pix of your setup? each of em? I would like to see where exactly was the filter sitting.
with my insulated CAI, I could drive in 100deg weather and the manifold and TB would still be cool to touch....with my SRI, its kinda the same...only difference being i ditched the splash guard which sits under the bumper and pushes air up....
but yeah now the IAT sensor is siting in the bumper opening and the IAT's is always very close to the ambient temp
By "efficiency mods" I'm just referring to exhaust (HFPC's and jpipe) and weight loss. Neither "add" any power. They just free it up.
09-26-2012, 03:42 PM
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^^^ not a problem dude....none the less great observation....and 535lbs are a lot....
i might cross the 700lb mark once I get lightweight rims/tire setup
i might cross the 700lb mark once I get lightweight rims/tire setup
09-26-2012, 04:00 PM
#21
Drifting
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700lbs. would be sweet. I'm amazed at the difference in 500lbs+. I drove a customers 2004 TL back from lunch with them about two weeks ago. I realized very quickly how much I took for granted the quick maneuvering and launches I enjoy in my car. Granted, his was an auto. But I don't think that was it. It was the fact that my car weighed 1/7th less than his. 700lbs. loss would get to to 1/5 less. 20% is a big number
09-26-2012, 04:08 PM
#22
takin care of Business in
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yup I am at 620 right now....hoping to drop around 60lbs with tire/rims setup....and nother 20 lbs with steering wheels/rotor splash gaurd/ebrake/etc
09-27-2012, 11:12 PM
#24
Team Owner
Awesome thread. Thanks for the information, I'll have something to refer people to instead of writing a novel every-time people make crazy claims. Got to go but I have more to say later.
09-28-2012, 08:04 PM
#25
the overexplainer
I'm curious to find out the AIT of both the CAI and SRI at different speeds, up to highway cruising, and if possible at what speed/duration do AITs for both types of intakes match (if ever). Nice findings though
Last edited by ez12a; 09-28-2012 at 08:07 PM.
09-28-2012, 08:33 PM
#26
Team Owner
I don't have a direct answer to that but I can tell you what happens in my turbo car. I used to run a CAI, not really possible anymore. I run the TL equivalent to a SRI. Filter is under the hood. I have two IAT sensors, one screwed into the filter neck and after the intercooler and methanol.
My results back when I had a CAI and the SRI are extremely close to the results posted in this thread. I have a front mount intercooler so even with the SRI's high IAT by the time it makes it through the intercooler it's nearly ambient.
The interesting thing is when the car starts moving and when you go full throttle. Moving makes a little difference but unless you're going 60mph or quicker it doesn't make as big of a change in temps as you would think. This is an older car with no plastic engine covers or underside covers. In fact, when I work on the engine I stand in the engine bay, between the radiator fans and the engine with my feet on the ground. There's about 2' of open space where you can perfectly see the road in the engine bay. I suspect the TL would have even less of a temp change with all of the shielding.
When you go full throttle, that's when the interesting stuff starts. My filter IAT sensor basically goes to near ambient in a few seconds. The engine pulls roughly 1,200CFM and it must be enough fresh air to completely cool the engine bay almost immediately. The TL should draw close to 300CFM. I'm not sure if that's enough to cool much if any but it's worth trying out. My theory is that even if the engine pulled enough air to cool things off, with the TL's engine bay almost sealed, most of the air would probably come through the radiator with some help from the radiator fans. In theory temps could go either way during full throttle. Cooler from outside air being drawn in (what a CAI does all the time), no change, or hotter from 200+ degree air being drawn through the radiator though obviously you're going to get plenty of air "through the cracks" .
Again, interesting thread, thanks to the OP. Data is always good. I'm glad it agrees with my own data from a completely different car and backs up what I've been saying but even if it didn't it's so nice to have facts to look at instead of opinions and feelings all the time.
Any chance of doing some full throttle runs with the SRI? I have a feeling with the CAI, even unwrapped, IAT will be ambient.
11-08-2012, 02:51 PM
#27
Excellent thread. I recently got an OBD reader and the Torque app and I've been tracking my IAT sensor temp for a week now.
For the the OP...I've noticed my IAT temps are consistently between 90-98 degrees when driving. When stopped, it get's up to 100+ degrees.
My guess is it is consistent because I'm completely stock and the coolant running through the TB keep the temps within a narrow range.
The ambient temps here in South TX have been between5-78 degrees.
I'll see if I can log it for a while, then do the TB bypass and see what that does.
For the the OP...I've noticed my IAT temps are consistently between 90-98 degrees when driving. When stopped, it get's up to 100+ degrees.
My guess is it is consistent because I'm completely stock and the coolant running through the TB keep the temps within a narrow range.
The ambient temps here in South TX have been between5-78 degrees.
I'll see if I can log it for a while, then do the TB bypass and see what that does.
Last edited by 08WDPTL; 11-08-2012 at 02:53 PM.
11-08-2012, 03:06 PM
#28
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Thanks for the info. That kind of confirms what I thought about the stock setup, that is, that it already pulls relatively cool air. Your ambient temps are cut off, but I'm guessing you meant 65-78F. If that's the case and you're seeing 90-98F in motion with 100+ at stop, then you're really not doing bad at all just at stock. You're still a bit warmer than me, probably around an average of 20-25F above ambient it looks like. But I've implemented inaccurates 'ultimate cooling mod', have most of my plastic gone and already have the TB bypass in place. According to your data, they make a difference but it's not completely night and day.
11-08-2012, 10:10 PM
#30
Excellent thread. I recently got an OBD reader and the Torque app and I've been tracking my IAT sensor temp for a week now.
For the the OP...I've noticed my IAT temps are consistently between 90-98 degrees when driving. When stopped, it get's up to 100+ degrees.
My guess is it is consistent because I'm completely stock and the coolant running through the TB keep the temps within a narrow range.
The ambient temps here in South TX have been between5-78 degrees.
I'll see if I can log it for a while, then do the TB bypass and see what that does.
For the the OP...I've noticed my IAT temps are consistently between 90-98 degrees when driving. When stopped, it get's up to 100+ degrees.
My guess is it is consistent because I'm completely stock and the coolant running through the TB keep the temps within a narrow range.
The ambient temps here in South TX have been between5-78 degrees.
I'll see if I can log it for a while, then do the TB bypass and see what that does.
Thanks for the info. That kind of confirms what I thought about the stock setup, that is, that it already pulls relatively cool air. Your ambient temps are cut off, but I'm guessing you meant 65-78F. If that's the case and you're seeing 90-98F in motion with 100+ at stop, then you're really not doing bad at all just at stock. You're still a bit warmer than me, probably around an average of 20-25F above ambient it looks like. But I've implemented inaccurates 'ultimate cooling mod', have most of my plastic gone and already have the TB bypass in place. According to your data, they make a difference but it's not completely night and day.
I tried to save a screenshot of the chart, but for some reason I can't find it. I'll try again in the morning and see if I can post it.
11-09-2012, 07:52 AM
#31
I logged my IAT sensor again this morning..
68 degrees outside. IAT temps ranged from 100 to 120 degrees. City driving during mild rush hour traffic.
Observations:
68 degrees outside. IAT temps ranged from 100 to 120 degrees. City driving during mild rush hour traffic.
Observations:
- The high points in the chart are where I was stopped at a light or stuck in traffic.
- The lowest points on the chart are where I was accellerating up to speed (40-50 MPH) and kept a constant throttle. This makes sense because the temp continues to decrease as the air is being pulled in from the outside.
- Once I got to cruising speed (40-50 MPH) the IAT rose and stayed constant between 110 and 115 degrees.
11-09-2012, 08:55 AM
#32
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Wow. Thanks for the info. Well, they're still not quite as bad as when I tried the short ram intake 
. Especially when you consider that I had a bunch of other cooling mods with the SRI and was still logging temps a little higher than yours (ambient vs. IAT).
Those are the exact trends I see as far as stopping, accelerating and cruising. All of which makes sense when you consider air flow over through the engine compartment and fresh air velocity through the intake.
I guess this pretty much confirms that if you want cool air to the engine CAI > Stock > SRI. Arguements can still be made over turbulance, vacuum, weight, sound, etc. But I think this shows beyond a doubt which option provides the coolest air to the engine.
. Especially when you consider that I had a bunch of other cooling mods with the SRI and was still logging temps a little higher than yours (ambient vs. IAT). Those are the exact trends I see as far as stopping, accelerating and cruising. All of which makes sense when you consider air flow over through the engine compartment and fresh air velocity through the intake.
I guess this pretty much confirms that if you want cool air to the engine CAI > Stock > SRI. Arguements can still be made over turbulance, vacuum, weight, sound, etc. But I think this shows beyond a doubt which option provides the coolest air to the engine.
11-09-2012, 10:07 AM
#33
Team Owner
Great info, guys. Keep it up.
11-09-2012, 01:44 PM
#34
Wow. Thanks for the info. Well, they're still not quite as bad as when I tried the short ram intake . Especially when you consider that I had a bunch of other cooling mods with the SRI and was still logging temps a little higher than yours (ambient vs. IAT).
Those are the exact trends I see as far as stopping, accelerating and cruising. All of which makes sense when you consider air flow over through the engine compartment and fresh air velocity through the intake.
I guess this pretty much confirms that if you want cool air to the engine CAI > Stock > SRI. Arguements can still be made over turbulance, vacuum, weight, sound, etc. But I think this shows beyond a doubt which option provides the coolest air to the engine.
. Especially when you consider that I had a bunch of other cooling mods with the SRI and was still logging temps a little higher than yours (ambient vs. IAT). Those are the exact trends I see as far as stopping, accelerating and cruising. All of which makes sense when you consider air flow over through the engine compartment and fresh air velocity through the intake.
I guess this pretty much confirms that if you want cool air to the engine CAI > Stock > SRI. Arguements can still be made over turbulance, vacuum, weight, sound, etc. But I think this shows beyond a doubt which option provides the coolest air to the engine.
1. TB bypass
2. Resonator removal
I think the resonator removal may have pretty good results because it will allow a more direct flow of the outside air into the manifold.
11-09-2012, 02:10 PM
#35
Senior Moderator
Awesome post, OP.
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