For all the SC Guys!
08-21-2009, 07:03 AM
#1
boost 3G
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For all the SC Guys!
im gettin my sc put in this next weekend and was wondering what gauges you all are using and where they are setup. would really help if you could post pics!
and would i be ok with just boost and wideband gauges or do i need oil pressure as well?
thanks for the help!
and would i be ok with just boost and wideband gauges or do i need oil pressure as well?
thanks for the help!
08-21-2009, 03:01 PM
#2
im gettin my sc put in this next weekend and was wondering what gauges you all are using and where they are setup. would really help if you could post pics!
and would i be ok with just boost and wideband gauges or do i need oil pressure as well?
thanks for the help!
and would i be ok with just boost and wideband gauges or do i need oil pressure as well?
thanks for the help!
08-21-2009, 05:12 PM
#4
boost 3G
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hi speed- you have and pics of your setup? or are they on the steering consule like most ppl?
erick- thanks bro! haha moreise? nice name for the car....def different
erick- thanks bro! haha moreise? nice name for the car....def different
08-21-2009, 05:32 PM
#5
Team Owner
Do yourself a favor. Get a knock guage that ties into the knock sensor and you will be waaaaay ahead of everyone else with a supercharger.
Why do you monitor boost? To make sure it doesn't go too high and cause knock.
Why do you monitor AF? To make sure it doesn't run too lean and cause knock.
See where I'm going? You should never ever ever run a forced induction car without a way to monitor knock. This is the single most important thing to monitor.
If you're limited to just a couple guages, you might find and oil temp guage more useful than an oil pressure guage with an aftermarket blower.
In the end, you WILL blow it if you don't run methanol injection. It's just the way it is. You may get a year or so out of it but eventually the blower will cost you an engine if you don't run meth.
Why do you monitor boost? To make sure it doesn't go too high and cause knock.
Why do you monitor AF? To make sure it doesn't run too lean and cause knock.
See where I'm going? You should never ever ever run a forced induction car without a way to monitor knock. This is the single most important thing to monitor.
If you're limited to just a couple guages, you might find and oil temp guage more useful than an oil pressure guage with an aftermarket blower.
In the end, you WILL blow it if you don't run methanol injection. It's just the way it is. You may get a year or so out of it but eventually the blower will cost you an engine if you don't run meth.
08-21-2009, 05:43 PM
#6
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Do yourself a favor. Get a knock guage that ties into the knock sensor and you will be waaaaay ahead of everyone else with a supercharger.
Why do you monitor boost? To make sure it doesn't go too high and cause knock.
Why do you monitor AF? To make sure it doesn't run too lean and cause knock.
See where I'm going? You should never ever ever run a forced induction car without a way to monitor knock. This is the single most important thing to monitor.
If you're limited to just a couple guages, you might find and oil temp guage more useful than an oil pressure guage with an aftermarket blower.
In the end, you WILL blow it if you don't run methanol injection. It's just the way it is. You may get a year or so out of it but eventually the blower will cost you an engine if you don't run meth.
Why do you monitor boost? To make sure it doesn't go too high and cause knock.
Why do you monitor AF? To make sure it doesn't run too lean and cause knock.
See where I'm going? You should never ever ever run a forced induction car without a way to monitor knock. This is the single most important thing to monitor.
If you're limited to just a couple guages, you might find and oil temp guage more useful than an oil pressure guage with an aftermarket blower.
In the end, you WILL blow it if you don't run methanol injection. It's just the way it is. You may get a year or so out of it but eventually the blower will cost you an engine if you don't run meth.
I agree. You need something that monitors knock most importantly. You don't have to have meth though. With some timing retard and fuel set to a healthy afr that doesn't cause knock, you are fine.
If you are running a tune that you car will knock on without meth, beware. If your meth system encounters a problem your engine could blow. E-85 in my opinion is a WAY better way to go, you may want to do some research on the subject.
08-21-2009, 06:17 PM
#7
Team Owner
I agree. You need something that monitors knock most importantly. You don't have to have meth though. With some timing retard and fuel set to a healthy afr that doesn't cause knock, you are fine.
If you are running a tune that you car will knock on without meth, beware. If your meth system encounters a problem your engine could blow. E-85 in my opinion is a WAY better way to go, you may want to do some research on the subject.
If you are running a tune that you car will knock on without meth, beware. If your meth system encounters a problem your engine could blow. E-85 in my opinion is a WAY better way to go, you may want to do some research on the subject.
The entire reason we need meth is because there is no way currently to pull timing or add fuel in a reliable way. The meth supplies fuel and octane to make up for the lack of tuning.
It's pretty normal to tune in such a way that requires meth to be safe. I run 28psi boost on my turbo car. I can only run 16psi on straight 91. If the meth fails I'm in a world of trouble but that's why you go with the best. The TL doesn't rely on meth as much. If it fails, it's not instant blown headgaskets.
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08-21-2009, 07:19 PM
#8
For the ct supercharger not built or anything or reworked. I would honestly not run a knock gauge. I have built setup for turbo on b series motors multiple times and have family, friends etc and never had a problem with just oil press, afr, water temp, . Thats with all of us making over 370whp and up to 650whp. obviously not all on 91 but with 91 street tuned have made over 400 with most of our setups. We also have had a few sc (jackson racing) type r's and gsr's worked on and never had a problem either. I mean its always something to think about. but i have never even thought about buying a knock gauge. Just me though. guess i havnt had bad luck or anything and i hate cars is right the tl motor isnt going to have to worry as much about blown headgaskets and other damage.
08-21-2009, 08:44 PM
#9
Three Wheelin'
For the ct supercharger not built or anything or reworked. I would honestly not run a knock gauge. I have built setup for turbo on b series motors multiple times and have family, friends etc and never had a problem with just oil press, afr, water temp, . Thats with all of us making over 370whp and up to 650whp. obviously not all on 91 but with 91 street tuned have made over 400 with most of our setups. We also have had a few sc (jackson racing) type r's and gsr's worked on and never had a problem either. I mean its always something to think about. but i have never even thought about buying a knock gauge. Just me though. guess i havnt had bad luck or anything and i hate cars is right the tl motor isnt going to have to worry as much about blown headgaskets and other damage.
08-21-2009, 08:56 PM
#11
Team Owner
That's because you guys always had tuning means, one way or another...it was never a prob for 4 cylinders...can't apply the same to the TL..this thing runs lean everwhere...not to mention 11.0:1 compression..which isn't found in the 4 cylinders, exept for the s2000... Boosting a 4 cylinder is one thing and the TL is another. U won't blow head gaskets in the TL, you'll just simply shatter ring lands
08-21-2009, 09:05 PM
#12
Team Owner
For the ct supercharger not built or anything or reworked. I would honestly not run a knock gauge. I have built setup for turbo on b series motors multiple times and have family, friends etc and never had a problem with just oil press, afr, water temp, . Thats with all of us making over 370whp and up to 650whp. obviously not all on 91 but with 91 street tuned have made over 400 with most of our setups. We also have had a few sc (jackson racing) type r's and gsr's worked on and never had a problem either. I mean its always something to think about. but i have never even thought about buying a knock gauge. Just me though. guess i havnt had bad luck or anything and i hate cars is right the tl motor isnt going to have to worry as much about blown headgaskets and other damage.
I understand where you're coming from. You can throw octane at it and likely you'll be safe. I do this too, C-16 and meth. But keep in mind, the TL crowd knows nothing whatsoever about tuning, detonation, or octane with a couple exceptions. If everyone would run on 100 unleaded I would say forget the gauges and enjoy the boost.
08-21-2009, 10:33 PM
#13
Three Wheelin'
The suggestion about E85..someone else asked in another thread..and here..while IHC is right about lack of injection capabilities, even if u threw some bigger injectors (u would need about 40% more E85 than gas) , of course ud need management means, but its beyond that....
you can't just run e85 on just any car...there's certain things that need to be changed. fuel pump must be capable of operating with electrically conductive ethanol instead of non-conducting dielectric gasoline fuel. Fuel injection system should be upgraded to have a wider range of pulse widths to inject approximately 40% more fuel than current pump gas. stainless steel fuel lines, sometimes lined with plastic, and stainless steel fuel tanks in place of terne fuel tanks are used. cars with fuel-tank mounted fuel pumps, additional differences to prevent arcing , as well as
flame arrestors positioned in the tank's fill pipe.
e85 has an octane rating of about 105.....while gas at 91-93 octane when you run a methanol injection bumps to about 116 octane,
Using E85 in a gasoline engine has the disadvantage of much lower fuel economy as more fuel is needed per unit air to get the correct afr to run the engine in comparison with gasoline.
so, for now, pollution is better
93 octane pump gas through ur injectors + methanol through ur intake =116 octane in ur combustion chamber....question is, HAVE YOU GOT BOOST?
flame arrestors positioned in the tank's fill pipe.
e85 has an octane rating of about 105.....while gas at 91-93 octane when you run a methanol injection bumps to about 116 octane,
Using E85 in a gasoline engine has the disadvantage of much lower fuel economy as more fuel is needed per unit air to get the correct afr to run the engine in comparison with gasoline.
so, for now, pollution is better
93 octane pump gas through ur injectors + methanol through ur intake =116 octane in ur combustion chamber....question is, HAVE YOU GOT BOOST?
08-21-2009, 11:14 PM
#14
Team Owner
You're right. One interesting thing we've (the TR community) learned is that we can run about the same boost levels as C16. I know it's only rated at 105 octane but it acts like it has more.
08-21-2009, 11:29 PM
#15
Three Wheelin'
08-23-2009, 12:59 PM
#16
boost 3G
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im a bit of a noob but what is this "knock" you all are talking about??
hi spped- can you get me some of those pics?? and where do you get the cluster that goes over your center speaker??
hi spped- can you get me some of those pics?? and where do you get the cluster that goes over your center speaker??
08-23-2009, 02:29 PM
#17
Team Owner
Knock is the killer of engines. You hear it as a ping.
Detonation, pre-ignition, pinging, all have the same result.
Pre-ignition is when the charge is ignited too soon. Sometimes by a hot spot in the combustion chamber, sometimes by too much compression, but the result is the charge being ignited before the spark plug fires and while the piston is still moving up in the bore.
You can also have two flame fronts, one from the spark plug and one from a hot spot colliding together to produce the ping. The result is the charge burning too quickly and producing peak pressures too early in the event while the piston is still moving upward. The charge is supposed to begin igniting while the piston is moving upward but the full burn is not supposed to happen until it's right at top dead center.
Detonation is an uncontrolled explosion in the chamber. The AF charge burns and burns quickly. Detonation is usually pre-ignition too if that makes any sense but not always.
No matter what the means, it means up to a 1,000% spike in cylinder pressures that destroys pistons, headgaskets, rod bearings, etc.
Generally, hp is not what kills these things, it's the detonation. You figure each ping you hear is the equivalent cylinder pressure as 1,000+hp so you can see how it kills parts.
Ways to avoid this is
Less timing
More fuel
More octane
Cooler charge
I prefer the cooler charge and more octane as that will give you max power.
The blower:
Heats up the charge
Increases the effective compression ratio, thereby increasing the octane requirement.
Methanol is great because it does most of these things.
Charge cooing
Octane boosting
Fuel enrichment
08-24-2009, 09:48 AM
#19
That's because you guys always had tuning means, one way or another...it was never a prob for 4 cylinders...can't apply the same to the TL..this thing runs lean everwhere...not to mention 11.0:1 compression..which isn't found in the 4 cylinders, exept for the s2000... Boosting a 4 cylinder is one thing and the TL is another. U won't blow head gaskets in the TL, you'll just simply shatter ring lands
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-s...fications.aspx
And there are plenty of Honda 4 cylinder motors with weak ring lands. Tuning options are available for the TL: AEM FIC and Greddy Emanage.
And while the Comptech ACM isn't the best solution (a Hondata reflash would be better) it has worked on plenty of TL's for a long time. I've supercharged a number of TL's and there a handful on here who are still running the ACM and still running strong.
08-24-2009, 01:49 PM
#21
Well you mentioned, "which isn't found in the 4 cylinders, exept for the s2000... Boosting a 4 cylinder is one thing and the TL is another."; so it seems like you were implying all 4 cylinder Hondas. And either way, you referenced the S2k, which isn't a B Series. It's an F20 or F22.
08-24-2009, 02:22 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
neither is ur civic! but then again...i should also be implying all the 4 cylinder honda bikes too, right? geeez...u know what the problem is...i think u got a hard-on for me ever since i bashed out on ur exhaust thread, which by the way had nothing to do with you in any way shape or form, but you had to get insecure about it and start defending it one way or another, instead of letting the product speak for itself... i think we should drop this...its really getting outta hand... ur corrections are very irrelevant, and dont change the points being made at all... the point is...there HAVE ALWAYS been available tuning means for the 4 cylinders...get it? thats the only point, and ur response doesnt change that! that is the difference between the 2.
look, i never had and still dont have anything against you, so remember that...you shouldn't expect everyone to "take it as they come" , too bad that you feel threatened that ur product wont be bought by a member that was convinced the product doesnt do anything, so you decide to fight it to death. You gotta remember, that when most ppl ask about "a mod", 99% of the cases, they have already made up their minds, and are just looking for approval, and even if you tell them "NO" they will still do it...they just feel better about having another one agree with what they're about to do.
good day, bud
look, i never had and still dont have anything against you, so remember that...you shouldn't expect everyone to "take it as they come" , too bad that you feel threatened that ur product wont be bought by a member that was convinced the product doesnt do anything, so you decide to fight it to death. You gotta remember, that when most ppl ask about "a mod", 99% of the cases, they have already made up their minds, and are just looking for approval, and even if you tell them "NO" they will still do it...they just feel better about having another one agree with what they're about to do.
good day, bud
08-24-2009, 07:23 PM
#25
neither is ur civic! but then again...i should also be implying all the 4 cylinder honda bikes too, right? geeez...u know what the problem is...i think u got a hard-on for me ever since i bashed out on ur exhaust thread, which by the way had nothing to do with you in any way shape or form, but you had to get insecure about it and start defending it one way or another, instead of letting the product speak for itself... i think we should drop this...its really getting outta hand... ur corrections are very irrelevant, and dont change the points being made at all... the point is...there HAVE ALWAYS been available tuning means for the 4 cylinders...get it? thats the only point, and ur response doesnt change that! that is the difference between the 2.
look, i never had and still dont have anything against you, so remember that...you shouldn't expect everyone to "take it as they come" , too bad that you feel threatened that ur product wont be bought by a member that was convinced the product doesnt do anything, so you decide to fight it to death. You gotta remember, that when most ppl ask about "a mod", 99% of the cases, they have already made up their minds, and are just looking for approval, and even if you tell them "NO" they will still do it...they just feel better about having another one agree with what they're about to do.
good day, bud
look, i never had and still dont have anything against you, so remember that...you shouldn't expect everyone to "take it as they come" , too bad that you feel threatened that ur product wont be bought by a member that was convinced the product doesnt do anything, so you decide to fight it to death. You gotta remember, that when most ppl ask about "a mod", 99% of the cases, they have already made up their minds, and are just looking for approval, and even if you tell them "NO" they will still do it...they just feel better about having another one agree with what they're about to do.
good day, bud
And I have read a number of your posts and I feel that you shouldn't expect everyone to agree with you. You make claims as if they are truth; you have been on this forum a few weeks and I have patiently watched as you dominate thread after thread with non sequitur information. I am just offering an opposing argument to the thread. I'm not saying that you don't present good information most of the time; but there's no need for you to post in every thread and dominate it with unnecessary and sometimes incorrect information.
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