'08 TL-S Steering rack in Base 04 TL Auto.
04-16-2009, 06:22 AM
#41
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The steering really isn't as bad as everyone is saying, then again I don't remember how my car handled stock...but it really isn't THAT bad. Its still firmer than the Lexus IS350 I test drove, and after driving a loaner 09 Altima 2.5S for 3 weeks, I can safely say you can't even begin to compare the two. Get into and Lexus or Mercedes, then talk about numb steering 
I swear, it felt like there was nothing attached to the steering wheel in the IS i drove, kind of like those wheels they used to have at playgrounds.
With that being said, there is still room for improvment. I might try this mod out....but that damn PS pump is $265 alone! The steering column is $209...I wonder if you have to install the radiator with the PS pump...
I swear, it felt like there was nothing attached to the steering wheel in the IS i drove, kind of like those wheels they used to have at playgrounds.With that being said, there is still room for improvment. I might try this mod out....but that damn PS pump is $265 alone! The steering column is $209...I wonder if you have to install the radiator with the PS pump...
04-16-2009, 09:55 AM
#42
04-16-2009, 11:48 AM
#43
Also on a side note I also put in the 08 TL-S power Steering pump but you don't need it. I did it couse over 3250RPM's it cuts back flow to make the Steering harder at higher speeds.
But if you can't find a TL-s rack at a good price I still have my Base Rack you can have for $100+Ship
But if you can't find a TL-s rack at a good price I still have my Base Rack you can have for $100+Ship
04-16-2009, 11:57 AM
#44
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no
You need pretty much the entire picture... If yo buy used, they ship the entire picture. Here's one on ebay (for a 2004, probably the OP's OE rack)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Acura...Q5fAccessories
04-16-2009, 03:34 PM
#45
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I like this mod. I'm not a huge fan of the looseness with the base at higher cornering speeds. I'll be on the lookout for a crashed Tl-s maybe save a little bit of money but having to buy new is not bad at all either.
04-16-2009, 03:54 PM
#46
I love my TL-S steering..except when I have to park in very very tight spots... @ 0mph it's a bit annoying...
But on spirited driving, especially highway.. The response is excellent, plus I can safely let go off my wheel..and even when the car hits a bump..the steering wheel will remain in its position.
But on spirited driving, especially highway.. The response is excellent, plus I can safely let go off my wheel..and even when the car hits a bump..the steering wheel will remain in its position.
04-16-2009, 08:26 PM
#47
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It's a good and cheep Mod for a base TL if you can find the parts used. I love it the feel is just what I was looking for in my Base Auto. Hope it helps many of you.
05-10-2009, 11:11 PM
#48
Must have mod!
I can vouch 100% for Anarchy919......everything he has claimed about this mod is absolutely and unequivockly true.
I met Anarchy919 today in Orlando for the first time. I have a 2004 6MT which i drove to our meet and then a little while later he graciously let me drive his car around for a bit. The difference is NIGHT and DAY! A must have! I am already working on gathering the money for this ASAP.....the earlier the better....gotta do it!
Thx bro....great idea.
I met Anarchy919 today in Orlando for the first time. I have a 2004 6MT which i drove to our meet and then a little while later he graciously let me drive his car around for a bit. The difference is NIGHT and DAY! A must have! I am already working on gathering the money for this ASAP.....the earlier the better....gotta do it!
Thx bro....great idea.
12-21-2009, 07:30 AM
#52
$260 for a lightly used rack and pump from a 2008 TL-S with 24K on it.
Showed up in great shape, one of th few times I've ordered parts from a junkyard that didn't show up with something wrong with them.
www.car-part.com is your friend.
Showed up in great shape, one of th few times I've ordered parts from a junkyard that didn't show up with something wrong with them.
www.car-part.com is your friend.
12-24-2009, 10:22 AM
#57
Unlike many mods people do here and rave about, this is one that actually truly improves the performance handling of the car. Granted, it may be useless to you, as you drive an 07-S, My 2006 Supercharged 6 speed would greatly benefit from the tighter steering.
and I got plenty of money to blow on the car... but thanks.
Myron, go test drive a TL-S... then you'll understand.
Last edited by Kennedy; 12-24-2009 at 10:26 AM.
12-27-2009, 09:52 AM
#60
Safety Car
to my understanding the pumps are the same the racks are the same what makes the differences are the coolers, piping and P/S pressure switch, extended piping that uses wider inner diameter rubber hoses instead of smaller metal ones. the coolers work faster because they look like radiators instead of just a pipe returning fluid and the pressure switch kicks in faster. they've prob updated the seals on the components as well to take a lot more abuse....the torque steer was corrected with the ecu as well not only mechanically
12-27-2009, 03:35 PM
#61
So basically replacing the pump and the rack is won't do much?
to my understanding the pumps are the same the racks are the same what makes the differences are the coolers, piping and P/S pressure switch, extended piping that uses wider inner diameter rubber hoses instead of smaller metal ones. the coolers work faster because they look like radiators instead of just a pipe returning fluid and the pressure switch kicks in faster. they've prob updated the seals on the components as well to take a lot more abuse....the torque steer was corrected with the ecu as well not only mechanically
12-27-2009, 06:20 PM
#62
I think you need to read the OP's first post on this topic. He and two others, who have actually done this mod, have clearly stated a significant improvement in steering handling by simply replacing the rack...
From the 1st page of this post:
The TL uses torque-sensing, variable power-assisted rack and pinion steering. The engine-driven variable-output pump provides the kind of steering feel that driving enthusiasts like: modest steering effort at low speeds and precise feel at higher speeds.
For 2007, the TL Type-S receives revised power steering pumps and steering gearboxes to improve steering effort build and feeling while maintaining a confident and stable feel. To this end, the power steering pump has been retuned for decreased flow at 3250 rpm for increased effort build up. Additionally, the steering gearbox tuning increased effort by 15 percent at high speeds for better on-center feel. The rack has also been retuned for better damping feel. To keep up with the demands of spirited driving, the TL Type-S also features a new aluminum power steering fluid cooler.
Hydraulic steering dampers built into the system further improve stability during cornering and at high speeds. A one-way kickback valve decreases kickback to the steering wheel that can be caused by road irregularities. The hydraulic valve closes when it senses road irregularities, impeding disturbances to the steering wheel.
Increasing the stiffness of the steering gearbox mounting and the rear sub frame also maximizes steering linearity.
Call me crazy, but none of that sound like larger diameter PS lines or a larger PS cooler. New pump and steering rack valving, mouting bushings, etc is how this accomplished.
I may do the PS cooler too, I bet it's bolt on... It was to upgrade the cooler on the Odyssey. I'm pretty certain the line that get replaced as part of the recall is of the larger rubber variety.
I threw on the pump today, but couldn't tell much of a difference. Rack is going in Wednesday.
Originally Posted by tripnbeats
to my understanding the pumps are the same the racks are the same what makes the differences are the coolers, piping and P/S pressure switch, extended piping that uses wider inner diameter rubber hoses instead of smaller metal ones. the coolers work faster because they look like radiators instead of just a pipe returning fluid and the pressure switch kicks in faster. they've prob updated the seals on the components as well to take a lot more abuse....the torque steer was corrected with the ecu as well not only mechanically
The TL uses torque-sensing, variable power-assisted rack and pinion steering. The engine-driven variable-output pump provides the kind of steering feel that driving enthusiasts like: modest steering effort at low speeds and precise feel at higher speeds.
For 2007, the TL Type-S receives revised power steering pumps and steering gearboxes to improve steering effort build and feeling while maintaining a confident and stable feel. To this end, the power steering pump has been retuned for decreased flow at 3250 rpm for increased effort build up. Additionally, the steering gearbox tuning increased effort by 15 percent at high speeds for better on-center feel. The rack has also been retuned for better damping feel. To keep up with the demands of spirited driving, the TL Type-S also features a new aluminum power steering fluid cooler.
Hydraulic steering dampers built into the system further improve stability during cornering and at high speeds. A one-way kickback valve decreases kickback to the steering wheel that can be caused by road irregularities. The hydraulic valve closes when it senses road irregularities, impeding disturbances to the steering wheel.
Increasing the stiffness of the steering gearbox mounting and the rear sub frame also maximizes steering linearity.
Call me crazy, but none of that sound like larger diameter PS lines or a larger PS cooler. New pump and steering rack valving, mouting bushings, etc is how this accomplished.
I may do the PS cooler too, I bet it's bolt on... It was to upgrade the cooler on the Odyssey. I'm pretty certain the line that get replaced as part of the recall is of the larger rubber variety.
I threw on the pump today, but couldn't tell much of a difference. Rack is going in Wednesday.
12-28-2009, 12:01 AM
#63
I think you need to read the OP's first post on this topic. He and two others, who have actually done this mod, have clearly stated a significant improvement in steering handling by simply replacing the rack...
From the 1st page of this post:
The TL uses torque-sensing, variable power-assisted rack and pinion steering. The engine-driven variable-output pump provides the kind of steering feel that driving enthusiasts like: modest steering effort at low speeds and precise feel at higher speeds.
For 2007, the TL Type-S receives revised power steering pumps and steering gearboxes to improve steering effort build and feeling while maintaining a confident and stable feel. To this end, the power steering pump has been retuned for decreased flow at 3250 rpm for increased effort build up. Additionally, the steering gearbox tuning increased effort by 15 percent at high speeds for better on-center feel. The rack has also been retuned for better damping feel. To keep up with the demands of spirited driving, the TL Type-S also features a new aluminum power steering fluid cooler.
Hydraulic steering dampers built into the system further improve stability during cornering and at high speeds. A one-way kickback valve decreases kickback to the steering wheel that can be caused by road irregularities. The hydraulic valve closes when it senses road irregularities, impeding disturbances to the steering wheel.
Increasing the stiffness of the steering gearbox mounting and the rear sub frame also maximizes steering linearity.
Call me crazy, but none of that sound like larger diameter PS lines or a larger PS cooler. New pump and steering rack valving, mouting bushings, etc is how this accomplished.
I may do the PS cooler too, I bet it's bolt on... It was to upgrade the cooler on the Odyssey. I'm pretty certain the line that get replaced as part of the recall is of the larger rubber variety.
I threw on the pump today, but couldn't tell much of a difference. Rack is going in Wednesday.
From the 1st page of this post:
The TL uses torque-sensing, variable power-assisted rack and pinion steering. The engine-driven variable-output pump provides the kind of steering feel that driving enthusiasts like: modest steering effort at low speeds and precise feel at higher speeds.
For 2007, the TL Type-S receives revised power steering pumps and steering gearboxes to improve steering effort build and feeling while maintaining a confident and stable feel. To this end, the power steering pump has been retuned for decreased flow at 3250 rpm for increased effort build up. Additionally, the steering gearbox tuning increased effort by 15 percent at high speeds for better on-center feel. The rack has also been retuned for better damping feel. To keep up with the demands of spirited driving, the TL Type-S also features a new aluminum power steering fluid cooler.
Hydraulic steering dampers built into the system further improve stability during cornering and at high speeds. A one-way kickback valve decreases kickback to the steering wheel that can be caused by road irregularities. The hydraulic valve closes when it senses road irregularities, impeding disturbances to the steering wheel.
Increasing the stiffness of the steering gearbox mounting and the rear sub frame also maximizes steering linearity.
Call me crazy, but none of that sound like larger diameter PS lines or a larger PS cooler. New pump and steering rack valving, mouting bushings, etc is how this accomplished.
I may do the PS cooler too, I bet it's bolt on... It was to upgrade the cooler on the Odyssey. I'm pretty certain the line that get replaced as part of the recall is of the larger rubber variety.
I threw on the pump today, but couldn't tell much of a difference. Rack is going in Wednesday.
12-30-2009, 05:01 PM
#69
Helpful post... Thanks for your useless opinion.
Unlike many mods people do here and rave about, this is one that actually truly improves the performance handling of the car. Granted, it may be useless to you, as you drive an 07-S, My 2006 Supercharged 6 speed would greatly benefit from the tighter steering.
and I got plenty of money to blow on the car... but thanks.
Myron, go test drive a TL-S... then you'll understand.
Unlike many mods people do here and rave about, this is one that actually truly improves the performance handling of the car. Granted, it may be useless to you, as you drive an 07-S, My 2006 Supercharged 6 speed would greatly benefit from the tighter steering.
and I got plenty of money to blow on the car... but thanks.
Myron, go test drive a TL-S... then you'll understand.
your welcome
12-30-2009, 06:18 PM
#70
You're 2 for 2 in useless posts in this thread... Good work!
Rack is in gents.
Grade A mod in my book. Any one in a non-TL-S should look hard at this.
Got a lot done today. Rack swap, TL-S front sway bar with Energy Suspension bushings, and ATLP race pipe with bung for A/F sensor.
Rack swap was kinda difficult... Had the help of a mechanic buddy with a lift, still took about 4 hours to do all three items above. We had to lower the subframe rear section (per the service manual), unsure how you would get the rack out without lowering it, there's just not enough clearance. You might as well plan for that, but you don't have to lower it all the way, just the rear section. There's no way to access the hydraulic lines at the rear of the rack without the subframe lowered as well.
What made install a pain was all the bolts are awkward to get to, and mildly corroded from a couple years on the road. It's just a PITA environment to work in... especially without a lift.
I'm pretty handy, and do all my own work... including supercharger and suspesnion installs on this TL. This is one I'd take to a shop again after doing it with my mechanic buddy.
If you do this mod, take the time to upgrade the FSB to the TL-S version. With the subframe dropped, the swaybar comes right out with 4 bolts. The stock bar is hollow, the TL-S bar is solid, much stiffer. This will provide better handling balance if you install that 24mm solid progress bar in the rear (like most do). If you do that, get the energy suspension poly bushings to go with it. They're bulletproof, and will really tighten up that front sway. This was a great mod within itself.
Other than that, the rack and the sway bar slide right in, with some wiggling. The steering tension is much stiffer now. It feels much more stable at higher speed... Haven't been in the twisties hardcore yet, but I already feel more confident in the handling. Some of this is likely due to the swaybar too...
I looked at the hydraulic lines, thinking about the upgraded cooler. Maybe later. I change my fluid every year, so it's of very lmited value, and it looks like I'd have to replace a whole bunch of lines in tight areas of the engine bay, lots of work for a "meh" mod.
For, $250, this is an awesome mod. Considering a new deck spoiler, ipod interface, etc costs the same... this dramatically imroves the steering handling of the car, and you feel this difference every time you drive... and I can sell my stock pump and rack for likely what I have in this, maybe less $50.
With both the tie rods on the rack being replaced, and the subframe being lowered, an alignment is a must afterward.
Quick question for you guys. Have you done the PS hose recall? I was looking at this, and wondering if they drop the subframe to remove the hose (I don't see how they don't). That said, are they doing alignments after the warranty work? I haven't done my recall yet, hoping I can get a free alignment out of it.
Anyone need a stock PS pump or rack? FSB? or meghan racing 3rd cat resonator?
Now I'm off to think of more ways to waste money, instead of buying "more better things".
Rack is in gents.
Grade A mod in my book. Any one in a non-TL-S should look hard at this.
Got a lot done today. Rack swap, TL-S front sway bar with Energy Suspension bushings, and ATLP race pipe with bung for A/F sensor.
Rack swap was kinda difficult... Had the help of a mechanic buddy with a lift, still took about 4 hours to do all three items above. We had to lower the subframe rear section (per the service manual), unsure how you would get the rack out without lowering it, there's just not enough clearance. You might as well plan for that, but you don't have to lower it all the way, just the rear section. There's no way to access the hydraulic lines at the rear of the rack without the subframe lowered as well.
What made install a pain was all the bolts are awkward to get to, and mildly corroded from a couple years on the road. It's just a PITA environment to work in... especially without a lift.
I'm pretty handy, and do all my own work... including supercharger and suspesnion installs on this TL. This is one I'd take to a shop again after doing it with my mechanic buddy.
If you do this mod, take the time to upgrade the FSB to the TL-S version. With the subframe dropped, the swaybar comes right out with 4 bolts. The stock bar is hollow, the TL-S bar is solid, much stiffer. This will provide better handling balance if you install that 24mm solid progress bar in the rear (like most do). If you do that, get the energy suspension poly bushings to go with it. They're bulletproof, and will really tighten up that front sway. This was a great mod within itself.
Other than that, the rack and the sway bar slide right in, with some wiggling. The steering tension is much stiffer now. It feels much more stable at higher speed... Haven't been in the twisties hardcore yet, but I already feel more confident in the handling. Some of this is likely due to the swaybar too...
I looked at the hydraulic lines, thinking about the upgraded cooler. Maybe later. I change my fluid every year, so it's of very lmited value, and it looks like I'd have to replace a whole bunch of lines in tight areas of the engine bay, lots of work for a "meh" mod.
For, $250, this is an awesome mod. Considering a new deck spoiler, ipod interface, etc costs the same... this dramatically imroves the steering handling of the car, and you feel this difference every time you drive... and I can sell my stock pump and rack for likely what I have in this, maybe less $50.
With both the tie rods on the rack being replaced, and the subframe being lowered, an alignment is a must afterward.
Quick question for you guys. Have you done the PS hose recall? I was looking at this, and wondering if they drop the subframe to remove the hose (I don't see how they don't). That said, are they doing alignments after the warranty work? I haven't done my recall yet, hoping I can get a free alignment out of it.
Anyone need a stock PS pump or rack? FSB? or meghan racing 3rd cat resonator?
Now I'm off to think of more ways to waste money, instead of buying "more better things".
12-31-2009, 08:10 AM
#71
Quick question for you guys. Have you done the PS hose recall? I was looking at this, and wondering if they drop the subframe to remove the hose (I don't see how they don't). That said, are they doing alignments after the warranty work? I haven't done my recall yet, hoping I can get a free alignment out of it.
On the side note, how do you like the SC? I got mine installed in the summer, and haven't really got a chance to try it's full potential. I was waiting for the AEM FI/C and the modified harness from "NVA-AV6" to come back, so I could get the car tuned before taking it out for a "spirited drive"
01-01-2010, 10:15 PM
#72
Team Owner
I think this has been really overcomplicated but to clarify, you're getting two things:
A quicker steering ratio via the TL-S rack.
Revised steering boost via the TL-S pump.
I wouldn't mind the quicker steering at all, it really helps when the rear slides and you need to catch it quickly. Has anyone ever actually looked up the turns lock to lock in the mags to see the difference in ratio between the TL-S rack and base?
I would also check what the differences are in the TL-S pump. It's most likely a valving change and not an entire pump change. You may just have to buy a TL-S pressure regulator spring or valve and be done with it.
A quicker steering ratio via the TL-S rack.
Revised steering boost via the TL-S pump.
I wouldn't mind the quicker steering at all, it really helps when the rear slides and you need to catch it quickly. Has anyone ever actually looked up the turns lock to lock in the mags to see the difference in ratio between the TL-S rack and base?
I would also check what the differences are in the TL-S pump. It's most likely a valving change and not an entire pump change. You may just have to buy a TL-S pressure regulator spring or valve and be done with it.
01-01-2010, 11:23 PM
#73
really on a roll there huh?
I am definitely interested in executing this upgrade as my steering feels ... for the lack of a better word ... DANGEROUS at times
. Mainly driving on shit LA highways, my car enjoys moving about at its own will whenever hitting even the slightest bump/crevice ...
Anybody have any idea as to how much it would generally cost to have this installed? Also, how difficult is it to drop the subframe? I actually have energy suspension swaybar bushings for the front but never got to install them due to that damn subframe ... maybe ill kill two birds with one stone if I do find a type-s rack/pump
I am definitely interested in executing this upgrade as my steering feels ... for the lack of a better word ... DANGEROUS at times
. Mainly driving on shit LA highways, my car enjoys moving about at its own will whenever hitting even the slightest bump/crevice ...Anybody have any idea as to how much it would generally cost to have this installed? Also, how difficult is it to drop the subframe? I actually have energy suspension swaybar bushings for the front but never got to install them due to that damn subframe ... maybe ill kill two birds with one stone if I do find a type-s rack/pump
01-01-2010, 11:25 PM
#74
Team Owner
really on a roll there huh?
I am definitely interested in executing this upgrade as my steering feels ... for the lack of a better word ... DANGEROUS at times. Mainly driving on shit LA highways, my car enjoys moving about at its own will whenever hitting even the slightest bump/crevice ...
Anybody have any idea as to how much it would generally cost to have this installed? Also, how difficult is it to drop the subframe? I actually have energy suspension swaybar bushings for the front but never got to install them due to that damn subframe ... maybe ill kill two birds with one stone if I do find a type-s rack/pump
I am definitely interested in executing this upgrade as my steering feels ... for the lack of a better word ... DANGEROUS at times
. Mainly driving on shit LA highways, my car enjoys moving about at its own will whenever hitting even the slightest bump/crevice ...Anybody have any idea as to how much it would generally cost to have this installed? Also, how difficult is it to drop the subframe? I actually have energy suspension swaybar bushings for the front but never got to install them due to that damn subframe ... maybe ill kill two birds with one stone if I do find a type-s rack/pump
01-01-2010, 11:51 PM
#76
really on a roll there huh?
I am definitely interested in executing this upgrade as my steering feels ... for the lack of a better word ... DANGEROUS at times. Mainly driving on shit LA highways, my car enjoys moving about at its own will whenever hitting even the slightest bump/crevice ...
Anybody have any idea as to how much it would generally cost to have this installed? Also, how difficult is it to drop the subframe? I actually have energy suspension swaybar bushings for the front but never got to install them due to that damn subframe ... maybe ill kill two birds with one stone if I do find a type-s rack/pump
I am definitely interested in executing this upgrade as my steering feels ... for the lack of a better word ... DANGEROUS at times
. Mainly driving on shit LA highways, my car enjoys moving about at its own will whenever hitting even the slightest bump/crevice ...Anybody have any idea as to how much it would generally cost to have this installed? Also, how difficult is it to drop the subframe? I actually have energy suspension swaybar bushings for the front but never got to install them due to that damn subframe ... maybe ill kill two birds with one stone if I do find a type-s rack/pump
01-16-2010, 01:36 PM
#77
Three Wheelin'
