I've read dozens of threads about TL (I have an S-type, but I think they're all the same) sound systems, and have learned a lot.

What I haven't found an answer for is:

1. What is the deal with this sound system? It's ridiculously "bright" on the high end.

2. Has anyone optimized (with an RTA) the equalization for a stock setup? From measurements, what are the best settings for a stock system.

(I've been trying to tune this by ear but don't trust my expertise--so far I have: Dolby Surround = Off (crap), Treble -5, Bass +1, Center =off, Sub +5, Balance +1 toward Right, Fader +2 to Front. This sounds reasonable, but not great. (I'm using several excellent CDs as my source material)

Can someone help who has really measured and tuned this system?

 

I have not seen anyone do a "tune" on the stock equipment. Your pretty limited by the available adjustments in the HU. Your method is going to be the best as everyones ear is different anyway. I believe your looking for acoustic quality that just isnt possible using the OEM amp and drivers.

 

Thanks for the input, I get the limitations of the stock system. I'm just wondering if someone has used measurements or techniques to maximize and balance its sound. Because I have big maintenance items needed on my S, I can't invest in the sound for a while. Any ideas?

 

a member did some tests on the ELS system and found the optimal setting to be -2 for both bass and sub. here's a link to the thread: https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-audio-bluetooth-electronics-navigation-94/improving-your-els-sound-system-542017/

 

From the OEM systems I have heard, something is wrong with yours or your ears.

 

Elliot Scheiner tuned it.

 

THAT'S RIGHT!!!


although he appeared to have ran out tuning juice by the time he got to mine

 

Agreed.

The only time my stock system sounded anything resembling good was with a GOOD DVD-A disk. I really enjoyed the one that came with the car. That was also before I had heard an actual SQ system so my opinion might be different if I heard it today.

 

For a stock car audio system, I find it to be very good. With that said, it's not very good.

If I don't pay much attention to it, and its at a low volume, its good enough to make me not want to bother touching it. Here's the settings I have been using. Definitely a bit too much boom coming from the sub at higher volumes. Probably a bit bright too, but I prefer that at my typical low levels. I would prefer the balance to be shifted about 0.5 to the right, I just left it at 0 to keep the sound better for the passenger. I'd like a low pass filter on the rears as well.

Bass - +6
Treble - +1
Fader - +2 FR
Balance - 0
Center - Off
Subwoofer - -2
Dolby Pro Logic II - Off
SVC - High

I'm not sure I ever used the radio. I had XM for a little while, but the compression is just too obvious, so I'm still running CD's.

 

IIRC
Bass +1
Treble +5
Fader +1 rear
Balance 0
Sub +6
Center +3
And I bought Cirlinca to burn DVD-A discs to play...
BTW the type of music people listen to, makes a huge difference on audio settings. I listen to old school rap, Dubstep, a LOT of beastie boys, 80's...

 

08 Type S

Bass right around in the middle
Treble all the way up (can't believe you have yours so low, must sound like shit)
Sub about 3/4 the way up
Everything centered
Dolby stuff off (doesn't sound that great on the 3G, but does sound good on the 4G)

The biggest thing that I found that will determine if the stereo sounds good is to eliminate any rear deck lid rattles. I had one simple easy to fix rattle and I am sooooo much happier with the sound now. Actually pounds halfway decent now, although I wish the 3G stereo sounded as good as the 4g's.

 

I've got mine all the way to the front, everything centered, sub off.

 

Thanks guys, I'll try some of these combinations that you've had luck with and see how they help.

 

I get the best sound from my ELS system using either my iPhone or MP3 player. It automatically recognizes the DolbyII surround signal and sounds great. My buddy has been talking a lot about Line Drivers quite a bit and it piques my interest?? anyone use one? or familiar with the pros and cons?

 

My thoughts exactly. I am well aware there are better sounding systems out there, but I am way too lazy to even consider tearing my car apart. The sound is way more balanced than my wife's Equinox, but doesn't have near the bass of her car.

Or our ears are shot and we have to crank up our treble.

 

From the title of this thread I thought someone had stuck a processor on the stock speakers. I never thought of adjusting the stock bass, treble, and subwoofer controls as tuning.

 

I tune mine by using different protectants on the various interior surfaces.

 

Just reading through the above threads makes me believe it is all personal preference. I run neutral on everything and run Prologic with my XM classic rock station. Sounds good to me..

 

Thanks for all the input. Here are the settings I've ended up with after allot of listening:

Treble: -1
Base: +2 (or +3)
Bal: 0
Fader +2 front
Center Off
Dolby Off
Sub + 1 (or +2)
SVS Off

It's still a pretty hot mix on the top end, but doesn't sound bad. Hope this helps somebody.

 

IMHO:

I did quite a bit of experimenting with the stock equipment using RTA equipment. As for my findings.... The stock drivers can actually sound pretty good by themselves as far as stock drivers go... especially the door speakers. You could try unhooking the tweeters to see what I mean. The tweeters suffer from bad coloration from the housing they are placed in. I believe ELS was rather limited in how he could tune the system and so he ended up doing a bunch of boosting to upper midrange frequencies to suit his listening preferences. The boosting is likely degrading the SQ although it sounds okay at lower volumes. At higher volumes it is harsh and unpleasant (distortion). It just so happens that some people believe the boost in this region sounds good. I don't like it. I like a smooth and gradual downward slope starting at around 60hz or lower.

If you improve the installation of the stock door speakers you can improve things quite noticeably. Amping them will also improve things... taking the signal before the stock amp, amping the stock speakers, and improving their installation will be the best you can do before replacing the stock speakers.. but you will want something that can utilize the balanced differential signal from the HU. I picked up a JL RLC- Line driver (around $70?) which does the job and has two RCA outs, one with a remote level control (hence the "RLC").

To improve installation add deadener to the door installation area and also put some open cell foam weather stripping to the inside of the plastic area where the door panel meets the speaker location to eliminate reflection closest to the speaker. Also put some around the plastic speaker mount to reduce sound escaping into door and causing unwanted resonances in the door. It will smooth out the response and sound more natural (less like it's in a door).

As for the tweeters, my ears told me adding a 2 ohm resister in series on the negative side and adding some foam cutouts over them (reducing midrange output) helped. If I were going to work with the stock tweeters some more I would get rid of the existing housing and make new ones to reduce reflections and coloration.

Just my $0.02

Like you I was trying to do things as cheaply as possible but finally ended up upgrading speakers to Dayton RS150-4 ($36/ea.), and Morel MDT-12 ($35/ea). 65w/channel and sounds great.... don't even need a sub when installed correctly. I am just using first order passive filters which cost around $10 to put together and some know-how. My next project is the install a decent centre channel to see if that will pull the stage more towards the center of the car and help with the midrange (probably the only thing you might say is lacking in my system from a SQ perspective; if being overly critical)

 

There are some you tube interviews with Elliot Scheiner that gives you his reasoning behind the development of the ELS Surround audio system. It was definitely designed with a certain type of music such as Steely Dan, Fleetwood Mac, Diana Krall, etc. not the bass busting music that a lot of younger people listen to these days. And it seems that Elliot listens to the DVD audio in his Acura all the time. He stated his purpose for developing the system was to "have the music sound as good in the car as in the studio". Given that, I see where a lot of people can be disappointed with this system and wholesale changes are required to provide a system that optimizes the type of music you like to listen to.

 

Thanks for that insight into the design. I was actually impressed with how good the demo DVD-Audio sounds. I also have a couple others DVD-As, including Donald Fagan's "Morph the Cat" that sound very good--My takeaway from hearing this quality is that the ELS system indeed has the inherent capacity to sound excellent. Schneider's statement quoted above sounds like an excuse to me--the type of music I listen to is Steely Dan, and the like. The system should sound good from a CD as well--CDs provide a full range of sound, and many are wonderfully recorded.

My conclusion from the fact the system appears to be tuned to make DVD-A sound optimized is that the issue with sound system simply comes down to one thing--equalization. If it could be properly tuned for normal CD audio, I think it has the potential to sound very good. Unfortunately, it is currently set up very hot on the high end, and dry (lacking) in the mid and low base (I'm not talking about rap music boom, but just good, balanced warm and natural base.) I like your idea of attenuating (or replacing) the tweeters--this could help balance the sound out immensely. Have you measured the frequency response on an RTA?

I do know what a good stereo system sounds like as I have been into high-end audio for 25 years. I'm really interested in what folks have done to fix this equalization issue, without replacing the whole system--I have limited time to mess with it. Thanks! Keep the ideas coming!

 

I was listening to Linken Park the other day returning from a trip and I played around with the setting I was playing through my blue tooth interface and found the music sounding much better in Prologic than without. The system pick up the bass nicely but still may not be what some people are looking for.

 

Yeah easiest/cheapest improvements would be to improve installation and replace tweeters with anything and level match to taste.

 

He's baaaaaaaaaack. I knew you couldn't resist. So you upgraded the "awesome" stock midbasses? I thought they were better than my Dynaudio midbass with just a 1"x1" square of damper on the door? The stock tweeters too? I thought a little Armor All on the dash made them the best ever and helped midbass too?

Your new midbass speakers lack midbass by your own admission yet the system has enough bass without subs? WOW! Entertainment at it's best. Please continue.

 

I think post #17 must have triggered something!

 

I know, that was hilarious.

 

reported.

 

Guys.......really?


Are we REALLY going to do this?

 

I am not and that is why I reported this first thing. These guys mean about as much to me as a mosquito before it gets squished.

 

Don't contradict yourself (lie) with every post and make false statements (lies) that someone who doesn't know any better might believe. You're going to be called out when you lie. If you like I can dig up your contradictory posts. I don't even have to say anything, I'll just post the facts. Ill show the posts where you said your stock speakers have lots of midbass, where your stock system with a little damper sounds better than my Dyn system, where you said armor all makes your tweeters and midbass sound better, etc, etc. Its all here. Lets not forget that we only have to go as far as this thread to see that you said midbass is lacking yet they have enough bass to run without subs. Seriously, reporting my post to a mod like a little girl when everything I said was completely true, wow. Theres nothing wrong with posting the facts or correcting someone who constantly posts false info. If you continue posting nonsense I'm going to continue proving you wrong. Now take your ball and go home.


That mosquito comment was personal, it will be reported.

 

I thought I said midrange was lacking.... *shrug*

edit: yup I did.

Yes, the stock speaker did have a lot of midbass after I was done working on them and the installation..... without sub the peak frequency was 48hz with the bass set to +1. Of course that's all gone now.... new equipment... new level... and yes, my stock system sounded better than your dyns.... because you do not know what to do with them.

Sorry to bust your ego.

Good bye.