thedeadmanx

So I need to upgrade my system, I've been doing research and I have come to the conclusion of what I want to do. Now I just need some suggestions on the best way to go with the upgrade. I now know the 04' TL has 8 speakers total in it. Here is what I want to do and would like advice on what to get, I'm looking to spend 1500 around if I can get away with it, I can go over a bit if need be.

1. Upgrade the "front stage" tweeters and woofers in the front door panels, I assume these are a component set and I would like to replace them with components. Some people have said ID is really good, or JL C5's. Opinions on that?
2. I want to keep my stock head unit. What does the center channel actually do for you in the car? Is it used at all? I know there is a factory amp in the car that controls it. If I splice into the line before the factory amp so I can keep my steering wheel controls and voice prompts, do I really need the factory amp? Will I need a line booster to make everything sound proper from the stock head unit?
3. I want to replace the two rear deck speakers as well in the car, any suggestions?
4. I believe I should do a dual sub setup, any ideas on those?
5. Which amps should I use to power all these speakers and subs? Also I'd like to NOT have to use a capacitor or an extra battery to power this system properly and have it be efficient with no line noise, would this be possible? What would be the right thing to do? I have an Xtant 404M amp, wondering if this would be good enough to incorporate into my system either to power speakers or subs....

Lets discuss! I will add photos of installs

abirvalg

$1500 for all the stuff you had listed is unrealistic

Even IF you skip the sound deadening, in which case you'll end up with a noisy rattle box and a lot of money wasted on the sound system you can't hear without the road noise an the interior noise mixed into the tracks.

On top of that i see no mention of any processor, which is what you'd really want if you care at all about sound quality, no amp and a number of subs will let you fix EQ and time alignment.

As for the stock stuff. NAV talks through center ONLY (you need an amp for it, if you remove the stock amp. as a workaround leave the stock amp just for the center channel and either use simulated center or, if you take the actual center speaker for the new sound system, mount another 3" under the dash still hooked to the factory amp center), HFL talks through fronts. All the muting and steering wheel controls are in the HU, so no worries there.

Another thing to keep in mind is 5.1
I you have a lot of DVD-A's and need that functionality you'll need a processor that supports it (360.3, PXA-H800, PS8 etc.), in which case stock up on measuring equipment and time or money to have a pro tune it.

If 5.1 is not needed MS-8 will allow you to save a lot of money as if has a built-in amp, which matches the factory volume very well and even goes a bit louder than stock. You'll only need a mono amp for the sub/subs. MS-8 will also allow you to skip any extra batteries, caps and alternator upgrades.

With any processing a signal delay is possible and may create an echo for the other party while using HFL. (very tolerable IMO)

Stock HU outputs low level signal, some amps and processors take it straight in the lows, no LOCs needed.

At the lowest get ready to spend $2000+ if you catch most components on sale.

stevemk07

If you're willing to put time and effort into it you can save a lot of money. I put my own components together and tailored the sound to my liking electrically. Used, junky equipment that works and does what it is intended to do will get the job done as long as you design the system right. Of the most expensive but probably most important parts of my system, the JL CL RLC ($60), converts our stock HU signal and provides a clean signal for two amps, one with lossless remote level control. All together my system costs a little under 700 (including dynamat, cables, speaker wires, custom grill materials, etc) and sounds incredible, literally. No processing other that what the line driver and HU do with the preamp signal, just clean clear sound that flows in phase and with nearly no distortion or noise. Listening to a sine sweep from 20 hertz to 5000 hz over 20 seconds I can hear no noticeable peaks or valleys in the sound although the rta shows smooth but rather steep slope beginning at around 38hz.

You can do a lot with the stock speakers if you want. Actually I think the stock 6.5s in the doors are great with a clean signal, the tweeter is okay too but I would put a 1.8 ohm resister on it to tame it down just a little bit. The circuit impedance would also be improved for the use with most aftermarket amps. Deaden and seal the door, speaker locations, amp them, take the preamp signal and convert using a line driver or amp with balanced differential inputs.

I figured out that the stock amp was likely introducing distortion into the signal even at low volumes to compensate for system design flaws (or rather someone else' listening preferences because the car sounds better without it IMO). That distortion is fatiguing to listen to.

thedeadmanx

I understand on the cost, and if it costs more I can deal with it. I do not really want to put in a processor in if I can avoid it, I'm not a total "audiophile" I just mainly don't want bad line noise. I hear the one of the best amps for a decent price is the JL audio XD700/5 to boost the signal from the stock head unit and be very good with the power, if I get two of these to do my whole system...would that be enough? To do the component front stage, 2 subs, 2 rear speakers....do I even need to keep the stock amp at all for the center channel? Could I just hook it in to the JL amps? Also does anyone know exactly what the lines look like previous to the stock amp, because if I'm to tap into it, what sort of conversions will I need if any?

thedeadmanx

If I go with the JL audio XD 700/5 , would this be a good component set to run at 2 ohms for the front stage?

CXS62 V2 - Image Dynamics 6.5" 2 Ohm Component System - will these mount into the 2004 acura TL doors properly?

Will the JL amp provide sufficient power to that set with nice loudness does anyone think @ 2 ohms? Also what would be a good set for the rear deck running at 2 ohms as well off the same JL amp? Opinions please...

abirvalg

i installed my first one not knowing what to expect
after that i HAD to have one in the TL
you don't have to be and audiophile to hear the difference

Stock system on the TL isn't bad and for most it's loud enough, by throwing amps at it all you do is make it louder, better speakers will help a little, again stock ones aren't very bad, but neither of those will do anything for the stage. You will still feel like you're in a car and be able to point where your speakers are located with your eyes closed.

But, enough pressure do what feels right for you.

You'll need 5+1 channels on the amps if you go passive fronts and 7+1 for active crossover. No need for a separate amp for the center, just run it like any other channel through whatever multi-channel amp(s) you end up with. MS-8 is among those very few devices that won't cooperate well with the center. With processor out of the picture there's no worries about it, the HU will do all the muting and mixing just like it does it with stock amp.

EvilJoker

what are the stock brand and wattage speakers in the TL? I know Honda cars use to come with Pioneer speakers...

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

^ i think its panasonic for the TL els sound system

thedeadmanx

Can anyone suggest a few subs that can thump but not break the bank, like I'm looking to possibly connect them up to the JL 700/5 , or to a xtant 404M amp...any ideas?

eggyhustles

xd is nothing special imo.

JL HD or gtfo.

but..for 1500..uhh..


3sixty.3 $430
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-ROCKFORD...item416f3bd253

JBL MS62
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-JBL-MS-6...item53f360ed79

Soundstream STL 4.500
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOUNDSTREAM-...item4ac07ec70b

2gto 15's
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-GTO-1514...81055124201%26

STL 1.600
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOUNDSTREAM-...item4abc59c6d2

Didn't add it up, but should be less than 1500.

Still need misc interconnects & sound deadening.

You can possibly stuff those amps under the seats.

Gregerst

iTrader: (1)

^^^ Those are some good prices. A lot of bang for the buck there.

abirvalg

he said he didn't want a processor ...
so that saves $400+

wiring and deadening however can add up quickly, without doing anything to the hood i spent 4 boxes of hushmat (~$400), a box of damplifier Pro (~$100), a basic RAAM kit (~$120) plus some more closed cell and MLV totaling another ~$150. And that hasn't even covered it all

besides let's not forget a handful of misc clips and plastic parts that love to break at dis-assembly time

pohljm

That amp works extremely well with the stock HU. if it had a subsonic filter it would be even better, but you can get them for a deal. not an HD but works well.

dont even waste time on the rears. bridge the 700 to the front components. I would not recommend the 700/5 undridged to those components.

thats what I am running. you will need spacers and trim the doors

pohljm

Go IB and you can save lots on a sub

thedeadmanx

Well boys, I ended up getting a ridiculous deal off craigslist and it caused me to go all JL audio for the whole build. Which I am happy about. I was able to obtain the following for $480.00 , all in brand new condition.

JL Audio HO112R-W6v2: Single 12W6v2 H.O. Wedge (Settled on one sub for now , because this is good quality)

JL Audio Slash v2 500/1v2: Monoblock Class D Amplifier, 500 W

Remote bass control that connects up to amp

Battery pack for amp and optional grill for the HO Wedge....

My question, will this amp be good for not having to boost the bass signal from the head unit? (Because I'm keeping the stock head unit and tapping in before the factory amp)

I will be picking up the XD400/4 to do the set of components in the front and I'm doing a set in the rear deck just for fun. Both sets will be JL C5 650's. I know the XD amp will be fine with not having to have a line booster...or should I be getting a stronger amp for the C5's?

The cap is no longer at 1500, it's gotten to the point where I just need to get the job done right. I have a few buddies of mine , one who is an AV installer to help do the install so I will save a lot on not having to have this professionally installed.

eggyhustles

no price cap, but no processor?

I don't really understand why people like to half ass things.

Ah well.

thedeadmanx

What exactly does a processor do for you? I get that it processes signal, but what is it doing, does it boost the signal?

Gregerst

iTrader: (1)

Generally speaking a car is a very poor environment for listening to audio. Small space, different objects, hard material, soft material, listen angles etc can all mess with the sound. Home audio is like a 1000x easier. Anyway a processor will let you adjust the audio signal in different ways with time alignment, EQ, X-over, etc. to get the music back to the way it's supposed to sound.
I don't have one yet. every time i think about getting one I see ppl having issues with them. In particular the RF seems to have some buggy software.

Gregerst

iTrader: (1)

The XD400 will be fine without a line driver. It's a good quality amp. Most ppl will tell you that investing that much $ in the rear speakers will be a waste and I'd agree. When you have a good set of components up front you'll barely even hear the rear spkers. Leave factory rears on the stock amp and use that money toward sound deadening the crap out of your front doors or toward a processor.

This is what I would do. Grab the Front R+L preamp signal and run them to your sub amp. Go from the sub amp to the XD400.

abirvalg

although i myself picked the other half of the proverbial ass - processor with a built-in amp
but it turned out loud enough, to were if it had more volume my hearing won't have lasted long

plus i still have my spare!

thedeadmanx

So that sub amp will work well enough with the stock head unit I won't have to boost the signal? Also what I have was a capacitor with the equipment, not an actual battery. My bad on that.

Gregerst

iTrader: (1)

iirc the TL puts out .8v signal from the HU. that JL will handle it just fine. Set it's input voltage selector to Low. I'd recommend putting your amps as close to the HU as possible. Like under the seats if possible. Obviously you'll want to keep the signal wires away from power cables and use high quality RCA cables. Don't cheap out here. Especially if your going to mount the amps in the trunk. With that low voltage signal it can pick up noise if your not careful.

niebur3

At full volume.

Gregerst

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the clarification.

thedeadmanx

Hmm....it seems the JL amps don't really have an aux input for my iphone.....anyone know how to integrate an iphone input into my system? (iphone 5 and ipad 4)

kdybread

I know nothing about the technical points being made, but I DO know that my front left speaker is blown and I need to replace it; and the rattle from my sub has caused me to keep it at -3 so it doesn't even turn on but I love bass so I want to be able to use it or replace it with something better that works and doesn't rattle. I was thinking or replacing the entire system with something that sounds better, but I don't want to spend more than $1K if possible, but from what I've read, that may be unreasonable. Who can suggest a setup, and is there anybody in the DC/MD/VA that can install it for me?

pohljm

iSimple

Gregerst

iTrader: (1)

Or USA-SPEC. A quick search will pull up lots of info about these on the forum.

Gregerst

iTrader: (1)

$1k for everything including wiring and deadening the doors would be pushing it but definitely doable imo.

pohljm

Only if your able to do the install yourself

kdybread

ok cool

thedeadmanx

With this JL component set....

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...io_C5-650.aspx


will the xd 400/4 amp be sufficient power to get these going loud enough? They are 75 watts RMS at 4 Ohms, and the amp puts exactly that out for 4 channels, how much power SHOULD be sent to these components to get these going loud without messing them up? I'm asking this because I wanted to just do 2 sets of these in the car, pair in the front and pair in the back...

eggyhustles

Bridge is down to 2 channels to power the fronts.

No rears. Please.

Tweets and mids everywhere with no TA is gonna sound bad.

Gregerst

iTrader: (1)

iirc aren't the rear speakers on the stock amp bandpassed so they won't sound as sh*ty?

eggyhustles

Still got a tweet in the rear to throw the soundstage out of whack.

Would work if it were midbass only with a very steep slope.

...but no processing.

niebur3

Buy the best front components you can afford and either forget the rears or use the factory rears. Rears completely screw up the soundstage, unless you have a very power processor that can utilize the rears for ambiance.

If you need further front stage suggestions and pricing, send me a PM and we can talk.

Gregerst

iTrader: (1)

I'm thinking about upgrading my front stage, I was looking at the 660GTi's.. jhust curious what would you suggest for
Budget
Middle
Highend

eggyhustles

660's are awesome

IMO, once you hit a certain price point, you might as well diy raw drivers.

Gregerst

iTrader: (1)

Is there something better in that price range?

thedeadmanx

Once again I have to ask this question. I had a guy who installs professionally tell me that I will absolutely need a line convertor installed where I tap into the stock system. (Keeping stock head unit, everything else is changed out) To send to my JL audio amps. Is this a necessity? I was planning on tapping in to the LF and RF wires before the factory amp and RCAing them directly back to my JL slash 500 1v2 amp and then over to my xd 400/4 amp....does anyone see a problem with this?