I hate cars

Let me start with the new system. I'm tired of not planning this out and always wanting to upgrade so here's what I have or I'm in the process of collecting.

What's going in for sure:

I have a ton of second skin damplifier and luxury liner.
Lots of wiring, fuse holders, etc.
MS8
Two AE IB15s infinite baffle of course.

Rainbow 4" coax center.

What I really want but I'm undecided which one to get:

JL's new XD amp line. I really want to be able to mount these tiny amps under the seats if possible. I want this car to look completely stock when the trunk is open, when you look inside, and to be able to carry the spare and jack if needed.

I think the 600/1 would work for the two subs. Max RMS is 500 each, would I be screwing myself with only 600 total? I've seen where many people only use about 90 watts to these things for SQ use.

For the mids and highs I was looking at the 600/6. Not sure if 100 watts will be enough for my mids plus I'm thinking about adding another 6.5" in each door.

I will probably go with a 3 way setup in the future and I need those 6 channels. I want to use the MS8 to it's full potential with the center channel and rears. I'm hoping the MS8 can power the center and tweeters or should I be looking at a 6channel and a 4 channel amp?

Another set of the ID mids..... I was thinking in order to fully exploit the subs I'm going to need more midrange. I want thing to be balanced and sound good. In keeping with the theme of lots of cone area and minimal excursion I might do a second set in the pull out portion of the doors. It looks like two 6.5" will give me the cone area of a 9" mid. I'm assuming it will have to share air space with the existing mid in the door so some drilling will be required. Hopefully this will look stock to anyone that does not know the TL well.

I have over 1,000 watts from the current class D amp for the subs and an e6450 bridged to the fronts currently. This setup is perfectly fine but it's large and heavy, especially the JL amp. If I have to do multiple XD amps it kind of defeats the purpose of small size. I wish they had something like a 1000/1 in that line. I know I could do the HD amps for the power level I want but it's pointless if they're as large as my current amps.

I know this post is a mess so to sum it up:

Add another 6.5 in the doors?

Try to use only two total XD amps under the seats along with the MS8?

Do I NEED 9 channels not counting the subs for 3-way MS8 use? I realize adding another set of 6.5s does not make it a 3 way, just looking out for the future.

eggyhustles

What mid you plan on buying? another ctx? if so, i personally wouldn't do that. Might as well get the xs this time around. 1 could work well. 2 would be fantastic & fucking amazing. You could toss the ctx in the rear and use the 20w from the ms8 to power them.

To power the 4 mids, i would either go with

Kenwood xr-4s 150 x 4 class d
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...lon-XR-4S.html

Or

Jbl ms-a1004
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...-MS-A1004.html

With the jbl, you could cut out the middle man(ms8) since it has all the processing you need.

There's also the minidsp
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ternative.html

Sundown 100.4 would've been my top choice, but it's somewhat large. The jbl will most def fit..the kenwood..im not too sure. What are you gonna do tweeter wise? i would honestly go the horn route, but the ms8 is gonna be a problem. I, and a couple other folks have had issues with the ms8 and horns. The auto eq tames them down too much which sort of defeats the purpose. You may be able to get around this problem..just letting you know. 20w each would have those things screaming. Your electrical would definitely thank you.

Now, about power...you don't need to give the subs the full 500, but i've personally always been an advocate for headroom. Always better to have the power on tap for those days when you want to crank it. For small footprint power houses, i'd look into the sundown. The 1000d is very tiny for the power it puts out. There's also stetsom and arc audio.

niebur3

Believe me, you do not need a 2nd set of MB in the doors. If anything the MS-8 will attenuate them to no more than the equivalent of one set.

eggyhustles

Figures

The ms8 discriminates against us who want loud

dred87

iTrader: (3)

I too want to try something like this out. The only thing, is that I really dont want to cut up the drawer space I have in my front doors. I want it to look stock and im afraid it might not look too good.

I was wondering if anyone made the kickpanels that allowed for you to put extra speakers.....

jda123

Why not 3-way with a higher powered 6.5 now?

jda123

If you don't mind me asking, which rainbow 4" are you looking at?

Nick337

iTrader: (2)

So you decided on the the ms8 Mr. Matt. I think if you are going to do another 6.5 you should do another set instead of jus another 6.5 speaker by itself.

I hate cars

Thanks for the help. I've been reading this thread but not replying much.

I'm 90% sure I'm going with the DLS Ultimate Iridium 6.3i component set. Are there any other suggestions in the $700 range for a 3-way set? I hope I'm not making a mistake going with another 6.5" mid instead of an 8".

Just to add a little more, I feel guilty for spending $700 on a set of comps, that's nearly double what my subs cost but I want something I won't want to upgrade for many years.

eggyhustles

dude, go with id, or go with raw drivers from madisound or partsexpress. You'll get a better bang for your buck going that route.

I hate cars

Any thoughts on the 8.3 8" version?

Eggy, I'm sure you're right but I don't have the knowledge or skills to do the raw driver thing myself yet I have too much pride to let someone else do it lol. So I'm basically stuck paying for a comp set.

Eiswritsat

unless you want really want super loud highs why not use the ms8 to power the tweeters and use the 4 channels to power the mid bass and mid range. Kind of like how many people do using the pioneer stage 4 3 way set with the premier dex-p99rs driving the mid range.

eggyhustles

That's a lovely set, but i wouldn't ruin the door or the door panel for an 8. Acura charges out the ass for these door panels. The raw driver route is your best bet $$ wise. There is no reason to go with a comp set when you have all that processing at your finger tips. If you still decide to go with comps, get a set that's atleast 91db @ 1v. Less power you use, the happier your electrical will be.

I hate cars

That's a definite possibility. 15-25 watts should be pretty loud.


Alright, I finally have eggy approval on the drivers themselves even if they're overpriced.

When you mention the processing, are you saying the comp set is a waste because I'm probably going to ditch the passives right away? You're right but I'm trying to understand the reasoning. You have to spoon feed me lol.

I'm not sure what has to be done to the door to fit an 8". This set has a small magnet and they're not very deep. I might not have to do any more cutting of the door than I already did for the CTX6.5's huge magnets hopefully. The door panel might be another story. I had to trim a lot of it in order to clear the 6.5s. I wonder if it's even possible to do the 8" while looking stock.

Then there's the question of would I really benefit from an 8" over a 6.5. The AE subs will play flat and supposedly sound fine way past 100hz.

Eiswritsat

i can agree as long as you know the characteristics of the drivers and how they will work together will save alot of money and yield the same result as a more expensive component and most of the charge in eh price of component sets are the crossover network and not the drivers. Also you can try www.wooferetc.com you can but well known drivers without the crossover network if your more comfortable with going with a brand name. Thats what i did.

I hate cars

That's kind of the problem. I don't have enough knowledge of the drivers to know what will work with what.

I can only find the 6.5" version at woofersetc. They're right down the road from me so I usually get my order the next day.

eggyhustles

Contact dyn and see what they can do

You should also be able to get the stock crossover points from them so you'll have a foundation to start on.

Eiswritsat

passive crossovers steal power and aren't as accurate as a powered or active crossover. If you have 70 watts going into a passive crossover you wont have 70 watts leaving the passive crossover. Also with the ms8 you can fine tune the slopes and x-over points to maximize the drivers performance and characteristics. The passive crossover is set for the average user and to protect the driver from damage. if you set the gains and slopes correctly, you will get a better sound and wont have to worry about blowing your drivers and less distortion vs going passive. Once you get the drivers dialed in active you will never go passive again trust me.

eggyhustles

Agreed

I still wouldn't ruin the doors, though. I regret putting an 8 in the door. I would put another 6.5 in a kick panel.

I hate cars

Do you think it would be worth the hassle of an 8". I really think it will be but I've never done it.

I know people who put up videos on youtube to show how badass their systems are, are completely retarded since it's only as good as the mic and the computer speakers. However, this one stands out with much better than average sq. I found it while searcing for reviews on the 8.3 system. Yes, it's gay, yes it's on the computer speakers but you can actually hear details.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWITNkXp46M

eggyhustles

I don't like how he has the midrange and tweet in different locations. You want the majority of the vocal range coming from 1 place rather than 2

Install looks nice, though.

I hate cars

So the 3" in the kicks would be a bad idea? Even with the processor? I'm in way over my head lol.

Just posted the 6.3 vs 8.3 question over at DIY.

jda123

If you can handle 100, or more, with the subs, then most 6.5s will take extra power. I have to x mine down 500 on the high end for the power, which suffers from 2.5 to about 3K, or so (focal was asses when I asked them where the x points were)... but that is where the 3 way might come in.

Maybe you can beg nick to show you his No. 7s in the pillar. He was helping me with mine, but I have not even thought about fabrication yet... too chickensh*t so far. I am tagging along to see where the 3" are going.

Eiswritsat

which he would have chose a more dynamic song, that songs sounds good in just about any car, lol

eggyhustles

i've always been a 2 way guy. More speakers=more tuning & more of a headache if you mess up.

I vote 2 way with horns

150w to the mids
50-75 to the horns

Nick337

iTrader: (2)

Any three inch would ideally sound very good around the a pillar area. Lemme pull up a picture of my install might not be the greatest, but its mine

Nick337

iTrader: (2)

How is your project coming along man? I'm dying to see the finished product!! Keep me updated man and um email me if have any questions.

I hate cars

Nice. I bet that sounds great. Have you checked out Lengthwise yet?

I think I have the system just about done.

Right now it's the IB15s.

A single PDX F6 (150x4) for now until I go active with the MS8 and then add another F6.

A PDX 1.1000 for the subs.

There's a 95% chance I'm going with the Dynaudio 342s and a small possiblity of going with the cheaper DLS Gothia 6.3s. The only thing that worries me with the Dyns is the reports of "boring" sound.

Sound deadening in the doors, rear deck, and trunk is complete and the rest will be done soon.

I finally feel like I'm in the last planning stages and I'm pretty satisfied with what I've chosen so far.




So in a nutshell, how does this sound for a SQ system and what would you change:

1)Two IB15s infinite baffle with a PDX 1.1000 powering them.
2)Dynaudio 342 comps with a PDX F6 150x4
3)MS8, another PDX F6, and a shallow mount Infinity Reference 6022si for the center due to it's 1-13/16 depth in the near future.

eggyhustles

All high end comps sound boring. Remember, these high end speakers are meant to play 100% flat and be listened to @ reference levels. Just eq them till they fit the bill.

I hate cars

That's what I'm hoping. I assume I can eq them to play however I want and it's probably a good thing that they start out flat. Who knows, I might enjoy a slightly flatter sound for a little while. Right now the tweeter on my IDs is just too damn loud even in the -3db slot on the crossover so flat might be a nice change.

crzygosu87

iTrader: (4)

^ i'd have to agree ... those tweeters are pretty loud ... I'm considering going active soon so I can control the output of the tweeters ...

eggyhustles

Yeah. It also depends what you listen to. I usually listen to hip hop/ trance, so i need sparkly highs and chest hitting midbass. Someone who listens to jazz and classical would need the complete opposite.

Nick337

iTrader: (2)

I wouldn't change nothing Matt, sounds like you have a very promising setup coming together. I checked out the Lengthwise place for lunch today, great place to eat the tri tip burger on jalapeno bread. With all the tuning capablities of the ms-8 it shouldn't sound nowhere near boring. Just take a lot of time to tune it to how you like, in my car its all about the vocals and voices, I love the way that 3'' sounds. My setup sounds great to me, but all that matters in the end is that you like what is coming out of your own car. Can't wait to see how it all comes together matt. Keep me updated and if you questions email me or call me.

crzygosu87

iTrader: (4)

question ... nvr owned an ms8 before, but from what I read, once again, it seems that there really aren't that many tuning capabilities for the MS8 to begin with. People seem to classify the MS8 as a processor that is set-and-go using presets ... any validity in that???

I hate cars

I can only repeat what I've read on the internet so I probably won't be of much help here but here's what I know...

It uses two mics (one on each ear) that you wear on your head for the auto tuning. Part of the tuning is with your head facing straight ahead, to the left, and to the right. It does time alignment, crossover point, phase, and eq. You can do this for each listening position in the car and then switch it to sound at it's best in each position such as if you want to impress the passenger. Or you can set it to compromise and sound good to all passengers but not as good as it would to a single seating position.

Once you have the tuning part done you can still adjust the eq to your liking but you can't change crossover settings since this can change phase and/or require a different T/A. In this case you would have to do another auto tune which is no big deal because it's quick.

It basically does for you what would take literally hundreds of hours to do by hand. For people like me who have very little experience with tuning other than adjusting an eq it's worth it's weight in gold. It would probably take me a year to get even close to what the MS8 does in minutes. Especially with my soon to be 3-way setup where it's pretty normal to have to play with phase and everything else to get them to sound acceptable.

I hate cars

That makes me feel a lot better. I have high hopes.

Call me before you leave town, beer is on me. I would call this weekend but I have a wedding to go to at Pismo.

jda123

I don't think that you will be happy with your foot, leg and pants in the way of the left 3.5 in the kickpanel, but that is true with any set.

I probably ran the equivalent of about -4.5 on my tn52 in my Honda. When moved to an Acura, I am probably at -10. The -3, -6, etc. is a joke.

I hate cars

That makes sense. The only thing that makes me feel better is I listened to two competitive SQ oriented TLs, "Neel's" setup and "ChicoOG". Chico had his midbass and midrange mounted where the dead pedal is if I remember right. One reason I do remember is that I stepped on his mid by accident. Neel's midbass was a little closer and more to the outside. In both setups I tried moving my legs and it made very little difference. But just for the reasons you mentioned I've thought about trying to bring the mid up higher. I had even thought about putting it up higher in the door panel but I was told that's the absolute worst place to put it and I'm not willing to have a mid in the pillar or in plain view of a thief. The kicks that "Niebur3" is making have the mid about as far to the edge of the car as possible, I really hope my legs don't block it.

I hate cars

Off topic, but do you know of any high end car audio places where I could demo the Dyns and DLS comps in LA?

jda123

Some more of my though process since I am working on 3-way too (my apologies if it is extreme and you don't care)...

I am going tomorrow to get both kicks and pillars from a wrecked 2004. ...just an idea if you wanted cheap insurance against ruin or hating the placement.

Make sure that your homeowners or auto will cover theft if somebody gets in. I double checked and am GTG.