rich20730

I apologize in advance for the long post.

In December I traded in my Honda Accord coupe (baby seat wouldn’t fit in the back) and bought a 2006 TL. I love music, so having a decent sound system has always been important to me. In my previous cars I usually just added an aftermarket deck, amp, and sub and called it a day. After I got my TL I quickly realized that my double DIN Pioneer was no longer going to be an option. I was left wondering, “Is there any way to make a factory system sound good?” A few Google searches and a couple months of lurking on this site and DIYMA and here I am.

The threads here have been invaluable in helping me upgrade my system so far.

Here’s the gear I already had from my previous car (don’t laugh):

Sony Xplod GTX-2200:
200 watts x 2 RMS into 4 ohms
500 watts x 1 RMS into 4 ohms

10 inch MTX Thunder 5500 in a 1.5cu ft ported box



Here is what I’ve added: (In chronological order)

• iSimple. Can’t have a system without my 160gb iPod classic.

• Audio Control LC6i. Bought this from a local shop after trying and returning a shitty $20 Best Buy LOC.

• Rockford Fosgate Punch PBR 300x4 to power the stock speakers. I got the idea from the Plug and Play amp thread, but Jerry’s posts got me concerned about the 2ohm load so this lead to my next purchase:

• Image Dynamics Ctx65cs components for the front and Polk Audio DB651s coaxials for the rears. I ran new 14 gauge wire to the components and deadened the doors with Dynamat. I put the tweeters in the stock locations in the dash. I left the center channel running off the stock amp to retain the navigation prompts.

Okay, on to my question… Now that I’ve opened Pandora’s Box and spent more time and money than I ever thought I’d spend on car audio I’m wondering what I should do next to improve the sound quality of my system. Specifically, what upgrade would give me the most improvement, taking into consideration the time (baby) and money (wife) involved.

Option 1: Buy a better/SQ sub. IDQ10 possibly? Would it work in the box I have or should I go with a sealed box? I would consider IB at some point in the future, but right now I can’t spend all day working on my car while my wife watches the baby.

Option 2: Go active. Do I need to buy another amp or can I run all 4 channels from the PBR to the components and run the rears off the stock amp? What about a processor for Crossover/EQ/Time Alignment? Is the Alpine PXE-660 a good option or would I have to shell out the cash for something better like the MS-8?

Option 3: More deadening. Would it be worth it to add some MLV and CCF to reduce road noise or is the stock deadening pretty good already? Does anyone have a time/cost estimate for something like that?

jda123

Leave it alone for a few months and see what you do, and don't, like about it. Even though I am now, I am not going active again. I would also not deaden my trunk again - the weight is not worth the gain.

You can probably get better bass if you drop the LOC altogether and just wire that amp up to the post-amp signal for the sub. Even the best LOCs cut quite a bit of signal under 80-100 hz.

Don't be like so many (myself at times too) where you are so concerned about making it better than you don't enjoy it.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Couldn't have said it any better. Trying to get great SQ in a car is going to cost A LOT! of money. And it will very rarely be anywhere near as nice as a HT setup due to reflections, noise, etc. Doesn't mean it can't be great and/or enjoyed thoroughly, but just know that you will be dumping money over and over. I started with some Massive RK6's on passives with some Kicker CVR 10's. Low power and pretty shitty, but I didn't critique music like I do now. At times I wish I could just listen and enjoy instead of trying to decipher where my center is or is not, how to get great imaging, etc. It's just a PITA.

I agree with JDA in that you should listen and enjoy for awhile. If you find that you prefer more bass, then get a different amp or sub (or both) and re-evaluate. Those components should be fine for most people. Power is lacking a bit, but will still suffice for most people.

Option 3: Look at my build thread and/or deadening thread. I have a layout of what I ordered, how much it was, where I put it, etc. I'm not sure how much deadening you did, if you did it correctly and if you just deadened or also did sealing. I just ordered 10 more CLD tiles today for my door panels themselves and a few other spots that I might need.


With that being said, unless you want to spend more money as you go....


just enjoy!

I hate cars

If you upgrade, do the front components, very easy choice.

I've still never had one of my LOCs cut sub bass.

djtsmith007

iTrader: (1)

To the OP, is there really that much room under the passenger seat to get an RF amp, the LOC and crossovers underneath?

I hate cars

There's very little room under that seat. Much more room under the driver's side. That amp is tiny, smaller than the stock amp.

I can't speak for the OP but all of the equipment is toward the rear of the seat, even with the end of the track. That's pretty noticeable from the rear. Under the seat, there's an airbag module and a shield, that might be why he put everything toward the rear. In order for me to fit my JL HD600/4 (1.9" tall) toward the front of the seat, I had to remove the seat, remove the airbag module, ziptie it up under the seat and remove the shield completely. This gave me barely enough room to the point I can hear it rubbing when I move the seat all the way to the front. I did put the amp very far forward so you would have to remove the seat to steal the amp but I'm regretting that decision.

rich20730

Thanks guys. I appreciate the intervention. Im having flashbacks to my quest for good headphones. I think I will take a little break from chasing the dragon and enjoy my system (for a while at least). Do you think I need to upgrade my home theatre setup?

IHC: The ID components really sound good to me. Without spending thousands on Esotars, is there really a noticeable difference between the CTX's and a mid level comp set? I'm really trying to find a sweet spot between performance and diminishing returns.

For those who went active, did you notice a big difference? Will I know when I have proper imaging and soundstage? Up until two weeks ago I didn't give any thought to those sorts of things. Will Thom Yorke start singing from the middle of my windshield?

Smith: Yes I was able to cram all that stuff under my passenger seat, but it was a tight fit. As you can see I had to velcro that crossover onto the LOC to get everything in there. There is actually much more room under the driver's seat. I probably should have thought about that before I hooked everything up.

I hate cars

I screwed up and didn't see that you had the IDs and when I posted again, my phone didn't send it.

I had the IDs and liked them a lot. The front stage is usually where you can make the biggest gains in the sound quality but I agree with others, give it a while and see if there's anything you don't like.

Active can sound better but it took a lot of tuning for me to get back to where I was at with passives and even more until I got what I consider good sound and I have an auto tune processor.

A good sound stage really makes the system more enjoyable but I wouldn't concentrate on only one thing. I like a dynamic system. That usually means lots of power even if you don't listen to it real loud and lots of cone area/higher high pass frequencies.

I can't really say if an upgrade to mid priced components would impress you or not. When I went to the Dyn set, it actually blew me away how much difference there was. At that point in time I just didn't see how a good speaker could sound that much better when I liked the IDs already. You can get the Dyn 242 set for around $800, maybe less. IMO, it's worth it but that's just my opinion.

Is there anything at all that you don't like right now? For the sub stage, you can change a lot with just the enclosure. If your sub sounds boomy or peaky, you can probably improve SQ by tuning it lower. Most prefab boxes are tuned way too high. I've heard that ID set sounds better at high volume when run active but I never got a chance to run it active. The amp you have is a bit underpowered for good dynamics.

However, everything you have is good stuff, I don't really see a weak link and no one component sticks out as needing upgrading.

rich20730

Ah okay that makes sense. The thing I notice the most is that the sub doesn't seem to blend well in a lot of the music I listen to. It sounds kind of sloppy/muddy and I guess you could say boomy. I would like it to be tighter and more accurate. I think I bought the sub w/box for $100 from Circuit City before they went out of business so I'm not opposed to scrapping it for an upgrade. How would I go about tuning the box to a lower frequency?

As for feeding more power to the ID's, I thought about running the midbass off the Sony amp @200watts per and then looking for a used mono amp to power the sub. Is that too much power? Or would it be easier to find a two channel for the mids and keep the Sony on the sub?

I hate cars

I've run the IDs with 200w and as long as the highpass is set above 70hz/24db they will take it.

The sub box is probably tuned too high, most prefabs are. A low tuned box will be smoother, go lower, sound "tighter" and "quicker", and just sound overall better. If you have no EQ, a sealed box might be easier to integrate with the rest of the system. Low tuned ported tend to have a lot of low end which is a good thing, it's better to have to cut the low end than to boost it. If you have EQ, it's perfect because it will be very efficient in the range where the most power is required and with EQ you can cut back that range to make it sound right, using even less power.

jda123

Cover the port up with wood or something rigid, move the box into one of the corners and fire it to the other side (don't face it backwards). See if you like this better. If you do, then look to a different box. That MTX 5500 will only take 300 watts, so be careful if you get a new amp.

I hate the sound of ported boxes in trunks. To me, and many will disagree, it sounds like it is ported twice - once with the port and again with the trunk.

rich20730

I don't have an EQ. The amp only has a LPF (50hz-250hz) and a boost @40hz. I can get a sealed box cheap from Amazon, but I think I'll wait on it in case I decide to move up to a 12"

If I cover up the port does it need to be air-tight? How does changing the position in the trunk change the sound?

stevemk07

I also have a ported prefab box and stuffing the port with a towel helped in my case. For my setup its taken a little while of listening but I found boosting the 40hz about 6 db helped to get the response fairly flat so then you just adjust for level and crossover. The other thing you should look out for is the polarity. The way I checked this is playing a frequency near the crossover point of the sub (used sound form on my android) and then starting from a low level turn the sub level up to see if turning the sub up increased the volume of that frequency or decreased it. If it decreased it you need to switch the wires going to your sub to reverse the polarity (because your sub is canceling out your front speakers at that frequency). This confused me for a while and so I came up with this method.

jda123

No, not air tight, but the closer, the better. Basically, you are trying out a sealed box without actually buying one. There are several dynamics to turning the sub different ways. First, the box facing backwards actually blocks some of the useful room to get sound into the cabin - not huge with a box that size, but it does. Also, the sound waves do some tricky, magical stuff when you put it in the corner that actually make it louder and has less canceling and bouncing around that can make for some amount of cleaner sound - the louder is very real, but I cannot tell too much about the cleaner sound. It is called corner gain or corner loading if you want to read up on how it actually works since I don't have any idea about the physical stuff. Every car, and every person, is different, so try it out.

niebur3

IMO, the sub issue could be corrected like the others have said and altering the enclosure to what the sub needs. As far as upgrading, I would consider the front speakers and amplifier 1st, then possibly add more "good" power for the sub you have. Then possibly something like the MS8, but that opens up a whole can of worms.

rich20730

I tried stuffing some t-shirts in the port, but I'm not sure it made any difference, other than reducing the output a bit. I also downloaded an app to test my speaker polarity - Audio Tools. Anyone know if this thing works?

Well, I just purchased an IDQ10V2.D4 from the classifieds over at DIYMA. While I would love to see that MTX live up to it's full potential with the right enclosure, positioning, and tweaking, I couldn't resist the temptation. I decided it would be too hard for me to shake the thought that I'm working with a pig's ear, so to speak.

So that brings me to a new batch of questions... from what you guys have said, my current prefab ported box is likely tuned too high. Rather than trying to modify my current box, I think I will just buy a sealed box since they are so cheap. What size box would you recommend?

Also, is my Sony amp going to have enough power for this sub? Would I wire it bridged @8ohms?

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Great choice on the 10" IDq. The v2 is regarded as a great SQ sub and will/should blow you away over that MTX ported at 900 hz or whatever it was lol. Your sub is a "dual-4ohm" subwoofer so you need to wire it like this........

The 2-ohm option
http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/woofer_configurations.asp~Q~1~I~42

Your amp states it will put out 250 @ 2ohms (doubtful..lol), but you can at least try and see if you like. If it does in fact do 250, that should be fine for a 10" IDq

Also...prefab sealed will be fine for something like that. I would suggest 1cuft as most go with around 0.7-0.8 I believe. I like larger sealed for the flatter response and nice low end. Check out SonicElectronix for their sealed boxes. They're actually good quality and have good customer service!

stevemk07

i looked at audio tools. same guy made sound form. havent tried it yet as i doubt this phone would run it properly. dropped my xperia play in the toilet so now using an X10.

rich20730

Great. I ordered a 0.9 cuft sealed box from Sonic.

jda123

That amp won't bridge to 2 ohms. You are going to need a new amp, or run it at 8 ohms with about 200 watts, or so.