zax123

Hi guys,

This is complicated to explain, so I'll do my best.

I finally got my window roll-up modules done using PAC TR-7 universal timers. They work perfectly and do the double pulse and hold thing that I need to get the windows to roll-up or roll-down from my aftermarket (Compustar) remote.

Here's my problem:

Because I have a manual transmission car, in order to get remote start to work you have to leave the alarm system in standby mode when you leave the car. This means that the engine is still running when you leave the car but as soon as you close the last door, the engine turns off and the alarm system automatically arms itself.

I have it set up so that from the alarm system rearm wire, I take that single pulse and turn it into a "pulse, wait, hold" for the window roll up. That way all windows and sunroof close when I leave the car. (In case I forget). That's the way my Clifford SmartWindows module worked on my Prelude and I liked it.

Basically, the problem is, when I leave the alarm in standby mode, the boxes emit the "pulse, wait, hold" to the right wire but the windows don't go up. Strangely enough, however, the windows DO go up when the alarm system isn't in standby mode (meaning I can't remote start the car). Even if I wait 2 minutes after the car has shut off and is sitting there, I can't go up to the keyhole and turn my key twice in the lock to close the windows. If I leave the car NOT in standby mode, though, and I arm the system from the remote, the windows DO roll up and the keyhole still works.

So SOMEHOW there's a signal from the alarm system to the car when the alarm system is in standby mode which prevents the window roll-up and -down from working... I spent an hour sitting there thinking about it last night and couldn't figure it out. ARGH!!

Does anyone have ANY idea what this could be???

Sorry for the long post.

Rob

P.S. Might help... while the system is in standby mode, I can't roll down the windows either! Not from the keyhole trick and not from the remote... Whereas when the car is armed from the remote and not in standby mode, I can roll the windows down. I used an AUX channel on the alarm system...

Toronto-TL

This may be waaayyy off but...

I found that with the key in the ignition and the engine running the doors will not lock remotely, only using the door lock mechanism on the door and only with the door closed, so... if the engine is in stanby mode (running) and your system tries to lock the doors and up your windows the built in safety feature (not allowing you to lock your keys in your car) might be kicking in.

WinnipegWDP

I watched my installer complete my compustar install and he did not use anything other than a wire to have up and down functions from the remote. He linked something under the dash but did not install any other aftermarket parts. I'll ask him and let you know. But definitely no timers or anything just a piece of wire...

Donte99TL

Wow that would be cool. I know some one on this forum did a mod to make it work but it was a lot of work.

chusteveb

I should be asking you a lot more questions first before trying to suggest something but try this first. If you were able to roll up the windows using the pac tr-7 using the stock alarm from the TL the way I described, it would have been using the lock confirmation tone to activate the pac tr-7 which is short low voltage negative pulse. All you need from the alarm to send the windows up using the same pac tr-7 keeping the same settings, is a 'ground when armed' wire. ie the starter kill relay should have one. The 'ground when armed' wire may not show ground until the engine is shut off by the alarm after closing the doors on the car. Use this 'ground when armed' wire to active the pac tr-7.
Hope this helps!

zax123

Hey guys,

Steve, I am using the "ground when armed" wire and it does fire off after the engine has shut off. The problem is, even if I do it MANUALLY after the engine has shut off, the roll-up doesn't work. It seems that it won't work if the car is in "standby for start" mode... If I don't let the car stay running when I pull the key out (hold the foot brake down), then I can roll up the windows by arming the alarm. Somehow, the window system KNOWS that the car is in standby mode... Because if the car is in standby mode (engine off), I can't even roll up the windows using the key in the keyhole and doing the double turn.

Winnipeg,

He did it WITHOUT timers??? I don't see how that's possible, but if it's true, PLEASE PLEASE find out for me and let me know which wires to tap into, that would be awesome. Question, the windows roll up on your car automatically when you leave the car? You have manual transmission? So the roll up and down works even when the car is in standby mode? If so, PLEASE help, I would so appreciate it. I really can't think of what's going wrong.

WinnipegWDP

My car is AT so that may have something to do with it. But I know that no timers were installed just the compustar brain. The guy is a whiz. I'll describe how i roll up and down on the compustar remote...press #1 wait for beep then # 2 and the windows roll up.....or press #1 wait for beep then #3 then the windows roll down. The car is armed and will still allow for manual key-in-the door roll down of windows just like the factory settings. I'll talk to him on saturday and see if he could write down the instruction for me...he attached some sort of programmer to the attenae wire the allowed him to mess with the settings...
I was bugging about getting it done as previous posts described with timers and the factory key fob but he just smiled and made the compustar system do it

zax123

Oh dude, you're killing me!!! Please give me info for a fellow Canuck! Thanks, I'd REALLY appreciate it! Which Compustar do you have? 2WSS?

WinnipegWDP

2w900fmr

ttys

zax123

Winni,

What I'm wondering is you have to press #1 and then #2, or #1 and then #3, but doesn't #1 on your remote lock or unlock the car? Does pressing #1 always toggle the current state? So if it's locked and you open the windows, it'll unlock, and if it's unlocked and you open the windows, it'll lock? Sounds to me like he's taking a double pulse there, one pulse from the lock/unlock and another from the AUX channels #2/#3. I'm just wondering how he turns the second pulse into a latch... unless there's a wire in the car you can double pulse and it'll roll windows up (and down).

If you don't feel like bugging the installer, I could call him and ask him for a quick synopsis... Just offering. Thanks again for all the info.

chusteveb

Well, I do know that when the car is "on" meaning the ignition key is in the "on" position, whether the engine is running or not, that certain sytems won't work ie. the factory security. Even though at this point the facory security has nothing to do with the windows going up I'd be willing to bet that this is also true of the windows up and down with the key in door feature. I can not easily confirm this as I have covered this door key hole with the rear door handle mod but if you had 2 keys just try it.

If it turns out that with the key in the iginition and in the "on" position, and using another key to try and put the windows up (or down) from the key hole in the door, and it fails to work we know that this is your problem.

Right now we know that your pac tr-7 is hooked up right. Basiclly as I am typing this I am realizing that what I just said is more than likely the problem. So with your alarm in what you call 'standby to start mode' it must be retaining power to one of the wires which won't allow the windows to go up.

Is your alarm set up to not activate the sensors (shock, motion, etc.) until after a preset time of the car being armed? I bet if you waited long enough (60-90 sec) you could go up to the car and manually put the windows up using the key in the door.

Let me know what you find out.

chusteveb

I stand corrected.

I just reread your first post where you said that even after 2 min you couldn't go back and put the windows up or down even manually with the key in door.

So in standby mode you can't do anything with the windows using the remote or with the key in the door, but in normal (not stanby mode) you can do everything, ie. windows up when arm, aux chanel the windows down, also both up and down functions from the keyhole.

We need to find out which wire(s) in the alarm act differently in normal vs. standby when armed and further research to see if it is an input or an output signal or both, the polarity of it and its function.

I'm willing to bet that it is one of the ignition wires.

Can you reach in the car when it is armed in standby and using the master control switch move the windows?

zax123

Steve, you rock reasoning this out with me. THANK YOU!!

I'm guessing that you're right that one of the wires is at a different level when in standby mode than when not. I was thinking the starter kill wire (I put a relay inline on the starter wire), but that wouldn't affect anything.

I will try to reach in and roll up the windows with the switches, but I don't see how that would be possible. The car is off... I know it retains power to the windows if you haven't opened a door, but I have opened a door... WEIRD. But I'll try that!!

Thanks so much for thinking about this with me, I really am baffled...

chusteveb

No problem man! Call me weird but I like doing this kind of thing.

I'm assuming you did the install for the pac tr-7 and the alarm as well. Do you have a link as to the schematics of the specific alarm you are using?

zax123

Steve,

I've downloaded the manuals for the CM3000 (the brain of the Compustar). Strangely enough I woke up in the middle of the night and was reading through the printed copies I made when I did the install... and the rearm and disarm wires on page 6 which is what I'm using made me wonder if maybe I'm not doing it right.

But here you go, here's what's available:

CM3000 Wiring Manual
CM3000 Install Manual

I'm thinking of using the door lock wire (diode isolated) instead of rearm. Let me know what you think.

Rob

P.S. You're not weird. I love this stuff too!!

WinnipegWDP

I spoke to my installer and he said that is has to do with the pulse timing,
you need a compustar computer programmer and adjust the pulse timing to 7 secs

hope that helps

zax123

Winni,

Yeah, I realized that you could adjust that using the AUX 1 and AUX 2 pulse timing adjustments. But what I'm wondering is which wires he hooked up to under the dash because as far as I can tell the wires exist only in the door... let me know if you can find out. Thanks!

chusteveb

Hey sorry I haven't had a chance to get back to you. Any progress? Unless the pulse timing is really far apart, the TL is pretty forgiving and will give a few seconds of variation. Anyhow doesn't the Pac TR-7 only need to have 1 pulse and it can simulate the rest?

chusteveb

cool, i just printed out your pdf's. i'll look it over today and get back to you.

zax123

Unfortunately, there's nothing in the TR-7 that can take one pulse and give out a pulse, wait, timed-latch. There's isn't even a take a pulse, then wait, then timed-latch. But the TR-7s definitely aren't the problem. The problem is the car. Once in standby mode, I just can't operate the auto-up down feature even from the keyhole... so something is stopping it from working.

I was hoping to hear back from WinnipegTL because there may be wires in the dash that can do this. Right now I'm using the factory arm/factory disarm wires which both lock/unlock the doors and do the windows on second pulse.

It would be nice if there was a wire that ONLY did the windows up or windows down...

WinnipegWDP

I didn't forget about you just have a hard time making time right now,

try calling GAS performance at 204-487-1826 and the installer is Jay

chusteveb

Let me fire off some questions and see where this brings us. I was able to read through the pdf's but it really didn't help much. However, it did bring a few thoughts to mind.

In stand by mode, or turbo timer mode, the compu alarm will arm itself but will it arm the factory alarm? On that note, will the windows not go up unless the factory alarm is armed?

Is it possible to see what wires act differently in a normal arming versus a standby to start arming?

Are you still getting the factory arm confirmation tone when you arm the car? Rather than counting on the factory arm wire to up the windows would it be possible to somehow bypass the pac tr-7 and get a single negative pulse followed by a second negative pulse held for duration tilll closed, into the drivers door?

zax123

Winni, Thanks for the number! Would Jay remember you if I mentioned you? Your name? What is your name?

---

Hey Steve,

You seriously rock helping me out like this.

So, first question. The factory alarms arms both when in normal arm mode and in standby (reservation) arm mode. The window roll-up works when the factory alarm is armed AND when it is not armed... (obviously not when it's armed in reservation mode).


This weekend, I'm going to test every wire to see what's different. Actually, what I'm going to do is disconnect (unsolder ) each wire one at a time to see when the window rollup works to see what's holding it back. I'm thinking maybe the key sense wire?

I don't get the confirmation tone from the factory alarm, cuz you only get it when you hit the factory remote lock button twice... I guess that's not equivalent to pulsing the door lock wire twice.

As for bypassing the TR7. I didn't BYPASS it so to speak, but I did manually apply a pulse, wait, timed latch to the proper wire while the car was in reservation mode and it didn't work. That manual method DOES work when the car is in normal arm mode.

Is this confusing or WHAT???

I'm gonna call Winni's reference. Hopefully he'll be cool and could help me out.

Rob

chusteveb

Does the owners manual or install guide show what the alarm is doing different in the 2 modes?

zax123

Nope, doesn't say it's doing anything differently. The install manual is basically the PDF I linked up there... This weekend it's gonna be warm in Montreal so I'll do some playing with car stuff.

kpierson

I think I know the problem....

When you leave the car on to exit the vehicle the RAP (Retained accesory power) stays on.

If the RAP system is on the windows won't raise or lower through the keyswitch. Obviously if the keyswitch method doesn't work, the relays won't work.

What you need to do is take the factory security rearm wire and wire it to the drivers door pin. This way, when the system shuts the car down the drivers door pin will be pulsed, shutting off the RAP system. Using the rearm wire will guarentee that everytime your remote start shuts down RAP is deactivated.

The RAP system will shut down after 15 minutes (I'm guesssing). So, if you let the car sit for long enough eventually the key switch method will work again.

As far as the aftermarket alarm control typically you pulse the lock wire the first time with the lock output then you use a validity channel (outputs signal for as long as button is pushed) to move the windows. Technically, you can diode isolate ONE aux channel from the alarm to move the windows in both directions, as the first pulse comes from the Lock or Unlock signal.

Good luck!

zax123

Hey k,

That's an awesome guess, and it makes total sense, and it might have to do with RAP... Thing is, I'm pulsing the factory re-arm wire in order to get the windows to roll-up. That's the wire that gets pulsed when you turn the key from the outside.

But I'll take a look at my electronics manual again, cuz who knows, maybe there's ANOTHER factory re-arm wire. The factory re-arm wire I'm using locks the doors at the same time, I'm guessing that's the right one...

Anyway, I'll try playing again this weekend. What a pain.

Thanks so much for the suggestion.

You wouldn't happen to know where I can get these factory re-arm wire from INSIDE the car right? WinnipegWDP was saying his installer got the wires under the dash, I could only find them in the door...

Rob

chusteveb

hey zax if you need to use the same rearm output wire from the alarm for more than one thing you could always use a relay.

kpierson

You read my response wrong.

Use the factory rearm wire to pulse the DOOR PIN. Pulsing the factory rearm wire will NOT shut down RAP, ONLY opening the door will cancel RAP. Diode isolate your factory rearm wire from the alarm between the factory rearm wire and the door pin.

The door pin wire is located around the fuse box, is pin 15 in a 16 pin light green plug, and is green in color. If you can locate the factory rearm wire coming from the alarm cut it, get two 1 amp diodes and connect the striped side of each diode on the alarm side of the factory rearm wire. Then, reconnect the other end of the cut wire to one diode, and connect the remaining diode lead to the door pin wire listed above.

If you want to verify what I am saying before you go through all this work sit in your car, set up the remote start thingy, and wait for the car to shut off. After the alarm arms itself and all that good stuff wait 30 seconds and try to put the windows down. If the RAP system is still on (like I'm saying it is) then the windows will still operate. If the RAP system is off then we'll have to look at other possibilities!

Good luck!

zax123

kpierson,

OK I understand what you're saying... just a question: wouldn't pulsing the door pin be the same as opening and closing the door? And wouldn't THAT set off the alarm?

kpierson

Technically it would, but I doubt it will in this case. I would assume that the alarm would wait a second or two before monitoring the inputs after the car is shut off. Also, with passivie arming it should wait about 30 seconds before the alarm arms AFTER the car is shut off. I don't have any experiance with your specific alarm so I can't say exactly whats going to happen, but at least the problem has been identified.

zax123

Well, it would be AWESOME if the RAP is the problem! I'll try it as soon as I can. Been kinda busy lately what with Canadian Thanksgiving and all. I'll definitely update this thread if it works. Thanks again for looking into it. I really appreciate it.

kayzee

Hi all,

It's a bit out of context but since there are people here who have the remote start system on their TL, I guess you guys can help out...

I'd like to get a remote starting mechanism installed in my car ('05 TL), how much does it cost including labor and all? Whatever value you guys give, of course I would +/- it...

Thanks!

zax123

kayzee, unfortunately, I can't help you out. I bought the Compustar unit on eBay and did the install myself... I think I paid around $275 for the unit on eBay... You should be able to get it installed for maybe $150-$200 more than that, but I honestly don't know. Been a while since I paid someone to install a system on one of my cars.