JustinZ

found a pic:

c0nsumer

Just FYI, killing pin 21 isn't going to make a lick of difference. Best I can tell, the Music Link Interface Box (specifically, the software on the PIC) looks for a response from the iPod saying that it is in AiR mode before it tells the head unit of it's existence. Killing pin 21 will keep the iPod from going into AiR, so... yeah.

That said, I have a PIC dev kit on the way and along with someone else (not from here, I don't believe) are looking at replacing the firmware on the PIC so that the Interface Box shows up as a CD changer, acts as an Aux In, and possibly feeds the shuffle / repeat / next track / previous track buttons back to the iPod as if it were a CD changer.

Right now were trying to find some more information on the protocol used to talk between a Honda (Alpine?) head unit and CD changer. With this, plus the readily available information on the iPods, it should be pretty easy to write the software to do this.

Then, anyone with a Music Link would simply have to pull their device, reflash it with a PIC programmer, and use it like a 'better' Aux In, allowing one to use the iPod itself for control but still with the head unit and steering wheel buttons functional, all without the TTS-induced headaches. And best of all, without any hardware changes.

This project is being tracked via dingleberrypie, and I invite anyone who has good technical info about this kit to check it out. Yes, it's still getting off the ground, but I don't even have the PIC programmer yet.

-Steve

JustinZ

sounds great!

how do we flash it though?

i shudder at getting to the unit after all those lost clips, scratched components and those screws i put extra effort to screwing in

c0nsumer

See the bank of six pins at the right hand side of this photo? Through those, either with a home-made or commercially bought PIC programmer.

I'd imagine if we manage to pull this off, that either myself or some other enterprising individual will flash them for $20 or so if someone isn't capable of doing it themselves.

-Steve

klevans69

I'm new to the thread, and very please to find it. I had the Music Link installed by my dealer, and it worked the way it was designed to for about 1 week.

One day I was playing a podcast and hooked up to ML, the podcast continued playing, but I lost controls, and when I restarted the car the CD-C mode was missing from the head unit.

Long story short, the wiring had come loose at the head unit.

However, now the ML will not work in any of the search modes 1-4 (Playlist, Artists, Albums, & Genres). Still works in shuffle modes 5 & 6.

I've tried the 5 R's on Apple's iPod support site. The last step was to do a restore on the ipod & start from scratch.

This didn't work either.

Does anyone have any other suggestions that I can try before dragging the car back to the dealership?

Thanks,
Ken

ThaShef

Guys try this out, it might work.

Plug in the iPod, its going to go into "OK to Disconnect" mode. Once its in that mode, try resetting iPod, see if that enables the controls.

Instructions to reset the 4G iPod: Press the center button and the menu at the same time.

This might work, but I dont have the Music Link to try it.

jjh1234

I've tried that on my 3G iPod. No luck. BTE, on the 3G iPod you have to turn HOLD ON, HOLD OFF, HOLD ON, HOLD OFF, then press and hold the two middle buttons. Tricky huh?

jjh1234

c0nsumer

You don't actually have to do anything with the hold switch. That's just in the Apple documentation to ensure that the hold switch actually is off without offending the end user. Sort of like asking someone to unplug an electronics device and then plug it back in as a first troubleshooting step. It allows the support person to essentially ask the end user "is it plugged in?" without the end user knowing it and getting upset.

-Steve

gt1

I doubt that the PIN 21 resistor puts iPod in AiR mode. I supplied Music Link with 12V power and connected it to iPod. iPod started charging, but didn't chanded from the normal mode. I don't think Pin21 is connected to anything in Music Link.
Wow! I read thae Wiki you created and posted some notes. Last few days I also traced pinouts of the Music Link, but didn't do such a nice job of putting it all together. Now I can only confirm that pinout on dingleberrypie are correct. I think it will be better if we continue Music Link hacking discussion over there, as Wiki is a better medium for this project.

c0nsumer

I guess I'll clarify a bit more, the 500K resistor between pin 21 and FW ground (pins 29 + 30) makes it accept serial data, then the appropriate command sent by the software in the Music Link actually puts it into AiR mode.

Can I ask what notes you posted? I looked through the changes, but couldn't find anything which wasn't done by me.

I'd also like to keep too much random banter off of there, as it's not a discussion board. I'm hoping to keep it more for documenting what's going on and archiving factual technical information, not the sort of things which tend to come up on message boards.

-Steve

gt1

My notes are here: http://www.dingleberrypie.com/index.php/User_talk:Gt1
The pin 21 resistor- is it located in the docking connector itself?

c0nsumer

Ahh, thanks. I see them now.

About the resistor; if you read the complete pinout it says that in the section labeled Cable from Interface Box (IB) to iPod Dock Connector (iPod). All these pinouts are being made by me, so I know they are correct.

With regards to your other comments there, I'll address them here:

Every PIC I've read about has this capability. That said, it may not be advisable to read out the Honda-developed code even if it is possible. To even look at the code then develop something else can bring up copyright / IP issues, which I personally don't want to get anywhere near. It'd be best to do a cleanroom implementation of some sort, completely ignoring the presence of code on the chip and starting from scratch.

If you read through the pinout information you will see that the GA-NET lines aren't connected. What exactly the device does talk is up for debate, but I currently think that it may be Alpine M-Bus

The only point I could see to this line of thinking is to use the Music Link as a simple Aux In adapter, and that is not the goal of this project under way via dingleberrypie. The point is to use it as an interface to allow changing tracks and such. Please see the Project Goal page for more information on this.

The reason I'm not interested in using the Music Link as a simple Aux In is because I've already built a rather useful one for my vehicle.

If you are looking to build something similar without paying for an adapter which connects as a CD changer, I would suggest checking out the pinouts for your head unit. On the Honda Nav Unit (and I'd imagine the Acura may follow suit), Connector B contains pins such as AUX SH GND, AUX SLD GND, AUX-GND, AUX-L, AUX-R, and AUX-DET. Best I can tell, those five pins match up exactly with the five pins found on the back of the 3.5mm Honda-brand aux in connectors. If these pins are there, I'd imagine you could just short the two which indicate the presence of a auxiliary input, and use the others to feed audio in.

-Steve

Kracker

Sounds like a good senior electrical engineering design project at A&M.

If you provide some money for the project some student is bound to make a second rate solution.

gt1

Sorry, I didn't read your page very carefuly. So this resistor is in the connector itself.
Yes, it would work better than anything else, but decoding Honda protocol may be difficult.
Installing another PIC will not touch any copyrighted code, but you will only need to transcode well documented iPod commands
The bus you call "SAT ECU BUS" is named "GA-NETII" in TL Service Manual, pins 1 and 11 on 14 pin connector are also empty on the vehicle side. You can be reasonably sure that the protocol in question is not Alpine M-Bus- their OEM and aftermarket protocols are intentionally incompatible. It may use the same overall logic and physical layer bus paremeters, but commands themselves are different.
I hope that if "go to AiR" command can be supressed, iPod will remain in the normal mode and still understand serial commands. I am not sure about it, byt it worth trying. Supression may be as simple as blocking the serial bus for few seconds after power up.
You've done an excellent work! TL Navi is of an older generation, and we don't have an AUX input.

c0nsumer

We'll have to see... Your idea is interesting, but it also requires adding more hardware, which is undesirable.

Hrm, that's interesting... The pinout I've got there came from the 2006 Civic wiring diagram... I can't wait until I can get a full copy of it for myself.

Thanks. Are you sure, though? There isn't one even on the back of the head unit?

-Steve

gt1

This plan is a good backup, but I really hope you'll be able to unlock Honda protocol.
I looked in other pages in the manual, and in one spot they show +12V on pin1. It is not that important anyway.
Yep. Your navi is better than our in many respects, this is just one of them.

jjh1234

Check out this new thread. Sounds like somebody already developed what we are looking for.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...76#post1381976

jjh1234

gt1

Today I tried Music Link for a first time. It was all I expected- both good and bad. Installtion was easy (I didn't fully installed it, just connected to the car), sound quality is excellent, noice floor is very low. But user interface is terrible. I don't want to install any additional software on my computer, and it wouldn't help me anyway because I heard it requires iTunes and I don't use it. Without the software interface is incomprehensible. Some people like shuffle, but I prefer listening to the whole albums. I also have a lot of audiobooks, and I'd rather listen chapters in a correct order. The worst is that I couldn't get iPod running in normal mode. If I gorunded the serial signal, iPod would switch back to normal, but sound would mute. As soon as I restored the serial link, iPod went into AiR mode. I think I will cut my losses and sell the Music Link. It works for some people, but not for me. Too bad, because I really like audio amd craftsmanship quality of the device.

jjh1234

I think I found the fix. Check out this new thread:

https://acurazine.com/forums/car-parts-sale-361/fs-many-tl-mods-131016/

JustinZ

cant you splice the wire (or make a new extension) and then just emulate the ipod serial signal so the music link wont mute it - then the ML will get the ipod signal and the ipod wont go into air mode

pbradley303

Not sure how this is working for me but.... when i connect my iPod 4g to the MusicLink connector and at the same time rapidly click (5-10 times) the Menu button on the scroll wheel, it will get me to the nav screen of my iPod. Then I'm able to navigate 100% of the menu controls while connected.

Hope this helps.

jim1274

This is my first post and am not sure if this is the proper place to post this....

I have the Music Link adapter and am looking for an adapter to use other non-IPOD MP3 players with the cable. Ridax has a Bose Sounddock adapter that they said MAY work, and Cablejive has a SoundDocktm cable that is very similar (no response from them to my email inquiry)

This is a quote from a Ridax email response:

Yes, Cablejive use the same solution as we do for the dock adapter. As
for the dock cable, ours is a full 30 to 30-pin solution while they have
a limited set of pins wired.

As for feedback, I just searched our database, and it seems someone with
some Acura equipment didn't got the L adapter to work. I don't know
about the V adapter.

Has anyone tried either of these products to convert the Music Link to a simple Aux input?

c0nsumer

I've done this. It requires one of two things:

1) Something to pretend to be an iPod and reply to the HML's queries, so that it'll unmute. I did a proof of concept of this with the HMLiberator.

2) New firmware for the HML. This will be a beast to write, as the IEbus controller on the HML is very unintelligent, so one will have to handle all bus negotiation themselves. I started going down this path and found the work to be pretty daunting.