colberto

Has anyone who has the Music Link installed, experimented with the pin connectors? I was reading on some thread here about the fact that it would be great to have the Music Link audio connection but find a way to circumvent the "Safe to Disconnect" lock down of the IPOD.

I have a 06 TL with NAV and want to avoid tons of aux inputs with switches etc.

It seems to me that if...

1. I could use the Music Link to use the secondary CD changer input for the aux in...which is how I understand this works (it tricks the head unit to treat the IPOD as CD-C on the nav screen). This would let me keep my XM and the Music link charges the IPOD.

2. I could mount the cable back to the center console in lieu of the glove compartment....and

3. I could use the IPOD to navigate and play items if there is a way to break the lock down of the controls.


Lots of hypotheticals there....but what do you all think? Is anyone willing to try or have they? There was a thread to a pin diagram of the IPOD and I believe there were 2 pins that carried "serial" data that maybe if blocked would stop the lock down. I want audio and power connections and that's it.

Somebody smart may be able to even test the pin connections with the Music Link without hacking up their cable....(use some material to temp block the pins from connecting like tape or stickers)....just to find out if you can stop this lock down from happening.

Lastly...do you think Acura would be willing to mount the Music Link to the console...even if it costs a little more for labor? Or will this void their support for the product or something?

gman44116

iTrader: (1)

I just ordered the music link and plan on installing in my '04 TL Navi next Friday. I am going to see if the connector cord is long enough to mount in the center console top compartment. I plan on mounting a Kuda mounting kit to hold my G5 video for a clean look. I hope the wire is long enough. if not, I may install the connector wire through one of the compartments below the HU. which seems to make more sense to me than the glove box (longer reach).

JustinZ

do you mind taking pics of the install process?

i just ordered mine and plan to install it myself as well

dan.....k

iTrader: (1)

My nav installer said that he could play with the pin connectors and try to see if ipod controls will work. I have an appointment in two weeks. I'll keep you posted.

colberto

Great. Looking forward to hearing about what your installer learns.

After reading all these ipod options, it just seems like Acura really missed the boat on the Music Link integration. With the NAVI you have this large touch screen interface that could work so well to display and navigate the I-Pod contents.

Using the tape deck controls and navigating through an alphabet one letter at a time just seems silly.

JustinZ

yeah im pretty sure its just some sort of pin connection thats putting it into that okay to disconnect mode

ddysart

Theoretically, the approach would be to disable pin 21, which would disable the serial interface. As long as the MusicLink module doesn't mind the iPod not listening for signals on the serial pins, it might work.

I'm not willing to hack up my existing cable, but if I could find a male-to-female iPod dock cable, I'd hack around with it to see if it would work. Nearest I can tell, sourcing a the female part of the dock connector to make an dock-to-dock extension cable impossible.

Probably the best approach would be to work on the other end of the cable where it plugs into the MusicLink unit. Unfortunately mines buried in the dash and I don't feel like pulling the dash apart to get at it right now.

jjh1234

I'm thinking if somebody had a spare dock, they could figure out how to break/cut that pin on the dock and plug the Music Link into the dock and put he iPod in the dock.

I'm beginning to think that the Music Link may not like this. It may look "disconnected" to the Music Link, thus disabling the "Aux In" aspect we are looking for.

jjh1234

JustinZ

nobody makes a female-male dock connector cable
i guess were going to have to wait until somebody has the balls to cut the musiclink wire and start soldering

dhartung02

I want to first say, i too am very excited and interested in this post and lookforward to a solution/outcome that will allow us to use our ipod controls while achieving crystal clear sound through our stereo music link connection. I would be hot on this project, but my music link doesnt get installed until this friday, and im not getting my ipod until i get it installed. But i will keep you posted if i come across any more info or make any progress.

Having said that, i did some research on what was needed, and what was available to accomplish this goal. Here are my findings which i found on the ipod linux forum, and appear to be very helpful for our current project. Here is the site that i encourage everone take a peak at, it has pictures of the parts we need to order to make our own custom pinout/converters. http://ipodlinux.org/Dock_Connector


Dock Connector
From wikiPodLinux

The dock connector was introduced with the 3rd generation iPods. With the dock connector the iPod can be charged, connected to a PC via USB or Firewire, connected to a stereo via line-out or connected to a serial device and controlled via the Apple Accessory Protocol. The manufacturer of the dock connector is JAE (http://www.jae-connector.com/en/index.cfm). The manufacturer's information on the dock connector can be found here (http://www.jae-connector.com/en/gene...&l_con=&r_con= ).

One of our forum members, ridax, has purchased a bulk amount of dock connectors to resell to hobbyists. If you are interested, see this thread (http://www.ipodlinux.org/forums/view...r=asc&start=15 ).

Mouser.com has picked up the dock connectors as well (but not always in stock):

Mouser Part# 656-DD1P030MA1 (http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?hand...oductid=776744) - Plug for making an iPod dock cable.

Mouser Part# 656-DD1B030HA1R500 (http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?hand...oductid=776946) - PCB SMT plug for making an iPod dock cradle.

Mouser Part# 656-DD1R030HA1R1300 (http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?hand...oductid=777098) - Receptacle (the SMT part used inside the iPod itself).

Dock Connector Pin Out

The female dock connector's pin numbering:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30

The male dock connector's internal pin numbering:

1 3 5 7 9 11 13 15 17 19 21 23 25 27 29
2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 22 24 26 28 30

Pin#/Functions:

1 Ground (-) 1
2 Line Out - Common Ground (-) 1
3 Line Out - R (+)
4 Line Out - L (+)
5 Line In - R (+)
6 Line In - L (+)
7
8 Video Out - Composite Video (for ipod colour when slideshow activated) 6
9 S-Video Chrominance 7
10 S-Video Luminance 7
11 Serial GND
12 Serial TxD
13 Serial RxD
14
15 Ground (-) 2
16 USB GND (-) 2
17
18 3.3V Power (+) 8
19 Firewire Power 12 VDC (+) 3
20 Firewire Power 12 VDC (+) 3
21 Accessory Indicator 4
22 FireWire Data TPA (-)
23 USB Power 5 VDC (+)
24 FireWire Data TPA (+)
25 USB Data (-)
26 FireWire Data TPB (-)
27 USB Data (+)
28 FireWire Data TPB (+)
29 FireWire Ground (-) 5
30 FireWire Ground (-) 5

1 1,2 connected on motherboard
2 15,16 connected on motherboard
3 19,20 connected on motherboard
4 21 connected to ground via a resistor. Different resistances indicate which accessory is connected.
Known resistances/functions (Ohms) are as follows:
1k0 - iPod docking station, iPod beeps when connected
10k - Takes my iPod into photo import mode
500k - vava uses this for his serial-via-dock experiments
Used in Dension Ice Link Plus car interface
1M0 - Belkin auto adaptor, iPod shuts down automatically when power disconnected
5 29,30 connected on motherboard
6 Composite out uses common ground as ground
7 Newly discovered from iPod Color Dock
8 18 stepped up to provide +5 VDC to USB on iPod Camera Connector.
If iPod is put to sleep while Camera Connector is present, +5 VDC on USB slowly drains back to 0 VDC.
If Camera Connector is disconnected, draining power can be detected between this pin
on the Camera Connector dock connector and +5 VDC on USB connector.

[edit]
Dock Connector Specifications

(from the JAE spec sheet: MB-0111-1E, available upon request)

Plug: JAE Part # DD1-P030MA1
Receptacle: JAE Part # DD1-R030HA1
Cradle: JAE Part # DD1-B030HA1

Contact resistance: 50 ohm max
Rated for 0.5A signaling, 1.0A power (30 volts).
Mating cycle of 10,000 times.

ddysart

That's where I found the information too, unfortunately the female connector (recepticle) is only available as surface mount part, so the prospects of an adapter cable are low. I think the aproach I might take is to repurpose a dock. The only thing that may make this difficult is if all the pins of the dock don't passthrough.

I think jjh1234 has a point, since Pin 21 is the accesory indicator, either side may want to see a signalon it. Might be better to block the serial signal (pins 12 & 13) so the iPod never gets the command to enter AiR mode.

Now I need to track down a cheap dock.

gt1

iPod has some little secrets. I tried to charge it with USB cable plugged into a wall adaptor with USB output and it didn't work, despite the fact that the adaptor had perfect 5V on it's output and charged my iPaq without any problem. So iPod may not like removing USB data wires.
Question to those who has Music Link:
How the system detects that iPod is present and on? What buttons do you press to select iPod?

zax123

gt1,

The stock head unit has a data bus. All peripherals connected to the head unit communicate over this data bus. The Music Link and XM radio are examples of these peripherals. When they are connected to the "AUX" port at the back of the head unit, they tell the head unit they are present when you power on your car. The head unit takes an inventory at power up. To select the Music Link unit, you press the "CD/DVD" button twice and it switches the head unit into CD-C (CD Changer) mode. This mode was obviously designed to connect an external CD changer, but all AUX adapters (like the Blitzsafe and the Music Link) use this mode to communicate with the head unit and to pass audio to it.

gt1

zax123, thanks. If Music Link is presenet, but iPod is not connected is it possible to select it asa a source? If yes, disconnecting wires to regain local iPod control should be doable.

zax123

Well, I don't actually HAVE the Acura Music Link, I just know how it works. hehe. So I can't do that experiment. I know exactly what you're trying to do though, and it's a good idea... Hope it works. I've decided to get the Harman Kardon Drive+Play after hearing all the terrible reviews of the Acura Link.

gt1

I am not very familiar with Blitzsafe adaptor, but I had an impression that it cannibalizes XM input, and user has to push "XM" button to switch to Blitzafe. Am I wrong?

zax123

I'm not sure if Blitzsafe has an adapter that maintains XM yet... I'm in Canada so our head unit doesn't have XM yet... but I'm pretty sure all Blitzsafe adapters require a double-press on CD/DVD.

gt1

I am not sure it justifies it's price. You are getting the same screen and controls you already have on iPod, plus installation hassles and possible hardware or software problems in D+P, AND you still need some sort of AUX adaptor to connect D+P to the head unit. There is one advantage that you can keep the iPod hidden, but I am not sure if it justifies the trouble.

zax123

Well, installation for me is a joke. I've done much more complicated things to my car (see my sig ). I already have an AUX adapter because of my whole A/V setup with the PS2 and all. I want to be able to see which song is playing and I want more control over the iPod than just song up and song down. The Acura Music Link adapter is more expensive than the Harman Kardon and does MUCH less in my opinion. I'll find a cool way to set up the Drive and Play so it is not too intrusive...

Rob

P.S. Sorry for partially hijacking the thread...

gt1

I checked your web site- impressive work! It looks that you already have everything you need to connect iPod without additional equipmnet. You're getting D+P just to control iPod from it's knob and use it's screen. If you need it, this is the way to go. I would be satisfied with iPod own controls. I see that your A/V switch is in the trunk and you have to run a long cable to iPod. Does it pick up any noices from ignition system?

zax123

Yup, it was picking up noise. I put an inline noise suppressor and the noise is almost gone, not quite completely though.

ddysart

There probably is not USB data connection on the MusicLink. Instead my money is on it controlling things via the Apple Accessory Protocol specifically Mode 0x4, AiR or Avanced iPod Remote mode where there is the "OK to Disconnect" displayed. All of this communication is done over a TTL serial connection on pins 10-12, not the USB or Firewire connections. This is the control channel, I'd place another bet that the audio is pulled off of the line out signal on pins 2-4 - which is what we are after (along with the other pins for charging).

Incidentally, I know the MusicLink functions with no iPod attached the radio still stays on CD-C and there is silence. (I got in my car to get lunch and forgot I'd broght in my iPod to listen to at my desk).

A couple observations that sheds some light on the corners cut on this interface:

If you read the AiR protocol, one of the commands is to set the image displayed on the iPod while in AiR mode. Go look at the demo for the Alpine Full Speed interface here. Alpine clearly depicts the Alpine logo being displayed on the iPod while connected. Given they had some hand in the electronics for the vehicle (including the MusicLink - the Acura TTS CD-ROM I got has an Alpine copyright notice on it - same with the NAVI DVD) I'm surprised they couldn't get the MusicLink to display something similar. [I'm not going to get into the fact that the Alpine Full Speed display track information - that horse has been beat in other threads)

Another sign the project was also obviously farmed out further - the Window TTS software show ZappSoft as the manufacturer.

The one positive for everyone else is I'm sure Blitz and P.I.E are working on new AUX adapters for the TL as we discuss this - seems to me $200 would be a small price for them to pick up a MusicLink interface and revers engineer it (and probably improve on it). NAVI owners may ultimately get their cake and eat it too (i.e. keep XM and have an AUX input).

ludachrisvt

iTrader: (2)

looking at the protocol i think we are pretty screwed on the fact that our radio doesnt do cd-text ... if it did we would be in the money!! The interface is not bad at all actually! What I am thinking is that I may be able to program something to talk to the ipod in remote mode instead of AiR mode. That seems like a much more feesable option ... now all I need is interest and funding :kiss:

ludachrisvt

iTrader: (2)

^ remote mode just makes the ipod think that a remote control is connected to it. The normal screen would still show up and controls would still be active. This would give us the interface that we want: steering wheel control, ipod display/controls still active, and crystal clear sound!

gt1

ddysart- I fully agree with your speculations. I think that disconnecting remote wire will turn Music Link in high quality AUX adaptor. iPod output is low voltage and unbalanced, and car is electrically noisy enviroment. I myself had a lot of bad experience with ignition noise on my old car, and I followed all grounding rules. That's why it may make sense to pay extra for a factory solution.

jjh1234

I wonder if anybody out there is hacking the iPod OS itself. If so, it probably would not be difficut to turn the screen info back on.

Also, even though the TL does not show track info on CDs, it does show the data for XM and the Music link is connected to the same port as the XM so it should be able to be done.

gt1

And where are you going to run your software?

dhartung02

Any new word or progress or is this thread dieing?

I am getting my music link today, im looking forward to see what i can start trying with it.

Dont let this thread die, lets experiment!!!

colberto

Glad to see my original thread finally took off...it was quiet for a while.

The race is on for somebody to find the magic way to use the music link and maintain control of the IPOD.

The prize....will be the respect and admiration of your fellow Acurazine readers...and will breathe new life into the Music Link.

May the force be with you!

gt1

I don't have a garage, so I will have to wait until spring. But if someone local needs help in disconnecting remote control wires, which will require solder work inside the Music Link, I will be glad to help.

dhartung02

OK everyone, i have HUGE news. I got my Music Link installed today and on the way home, i plugged in my 30 gig Video Ipod into my 2006 TL with Nav and it worked as expected. After about 30 minutes of playtime, i pulled over and let my girlfriend take over so i could check things out and play with the controls. Well i reached in the glove box and low and behold it didnt have the check like it did earlier, this time it said Charging Complete. I then hit the menu key and the menu came up! This all was happening while the car was running and playing the music from the ipod. I then proceeded to go through using the IPOD to change songs and even watch videos while the sound went through the music link. I thought to myself......this is too good to be true! I then decided to experiment and see if the orignal car controls worked, and low and behold they did. I had control using the car controls and the ipod. I took some pictures for proof that i will post later when my Girlfriend gets them off her camera. I was shocked after all of this and wondered to myself, how did i get so lucky. Well, i then decided to try and unplug the ipod and plug it back in and see what happened. Well it went back to the check mark and i lost all of the functionality that i just had. After that i couldnt re create the situation that gave me the dual control. But this should prove that it IS POSSIBLE. Now that i have my link i am going to begin creating a patch cable between the music link and the ipod and see if i can figure out which wires need to stay and which wires need to go.

I hope other people are working on this as well. I just wanted to share my exciting story and let people know not to give up this can and WILL happen.

peace out

colberto

Good news dehartung!

I just Googled and found this link which clearly identifies all of the PINS. I think PIN #21 is the key.

http://ipodlinux.org/Dock_Connector

Not only does this identify the pins but also indicates that various voltages on this pin put the IPOD into various modes:

Known resistances/functions (Ohms) are as follows:
1k0 - iPod docking station, iPod beeps when connected
10k - Takes my iPod into photo import mode
500k - vava uses this for his serial-via-dock experiments
Used in Dension Ice Link Plus car interface
1M0 - Belkin auto adaptor, iPod shuts down automatically when power disconnected

I think that the Music Link us based on the Ice Link technology...so I imagine that the Music Link is sending a 500k signal on this PIN which put's it into the mode.

Can anyone find a creative way to bypass PIN 21 and report what happens?

boltjames

Has anyone gone into iTunes' iPod settings and unchecked the box that says "enable disk use" yet? This may be the solution.

In a PC, when the box is left checked, every time you dock your iPod you get the 'do not disconnect' screen whether you're connected to iTunes or not. The PC sees your iPod as a drive and won't let go of it unless you eject it.

Similarly, in a PC, when the box is unchecked, the computer scans the iPod, the 'do not disconnect' screen appears briefly, and then it goes back to the regular menu where you can navigate as you wish.

I realize that the TL's interface is not a PC, but there might be something in the software that treats the docked iPod the same way it does on a PC. So....if someone can uncheck the box that says "enable disk use" and then reconnect it to the TL you may have a workaround. You may also want to uncheck the "launch iTunes when connected" option too; anything that makes the iPod want to wait for additional commands from the OS or iTunes is suspect.

BJ

JustinZ

That is just software config - it doesnt alter the ipod in anyway

there is a signal that the TL is giving the ipod that puts it into that special accessory mode. you need to block that signal; but thus far nobody wants to hack up their cables

boltjames

Not true.

When you have the disk mode 'on', it instructs WinXP to view the iPod as a generic flash/hard drive upon connection.

When you have the disk mode 'off', it instructs WinXP to not view the iPod as a drive, and after a few seconds changes the iPod's screen changes from 'do not disconnect' to the regular menu.

I know because I use my desktop to sync iTunes to the iPod and I use my notebook only to charge my iPod. I don't have iTunes installed on my notebook. When I check/uncheck the 'disk' option, I notice the behavior above.

Do me a favor and test my theory with the TL. Would take less time than typing another inaccurate response.

BJ

colberto

I'm not an engineer..but I imagine that the software on the PC does this by altering the voltage on that pin while docked. Obviously the PC could control what signal or milli-voltage is sent on various pins through software. Our Music Link adapter must be sending a small amount of voltage on this pin which puts it into a similar mode as well.

While I imagine that indeed your PC configs could alter the IPOD's experience when docked to the PC...I do not believe that such changes would impact the Music Link.

Correct me however if I am wrong but I don't believe that there is DATA being sent to the IPOD from the adapter...hense, one does not see a "Do Not Disconnect" like one would experience if transferring files, updating IPOD software etc. THe only message that one receives with the Music Link is "Safe to Disconnect". Which I still believe is delivered on this separate accessory mode pin.

My thoughts are that Acura looked favorably on the link's ability to inhibit control by the IPOD. If one was 'distracted" by fumbling through and looking at one's IPOD while driving on a "factory" installed accessory...this could be legal trouble. I also imagine that is also perhaps part of the reason for the glove box installation...(that and it being easier to install). They want you to "set it" and "forget it".

Not only that, I think it goes against the philosophy behind voice activation and hands free features. Acura want's your eyes to be on the road while driving...not on your IPOD.

But if there is a will...there is a way!

boltjames

Can you just try my method and see if it works?

Would take you all of 30 seconds to do so.

BJ

dhartung02

As promised here are my pictures proof of using the ipod while hooked up to the music link.....we NEED to figure this out.

well....i have the pictures if someone will host them for me?

let me know its only 2 pics

gt1

you can host them easy and free on imageshack.us. If you have problems with them, PM me and I will host the pictures.

dhartung02

[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

Here ya go, they are kinda hard to see, but the first one is a music video i was playing and the second one is the menu i was accessing.

i wish i could recreate the scenario that allowed this to happen. I was just messing around and pressed a few buttons.....
I dont know what happened.

Hope this helps to inspire some people!