żGotJazz?

The purpose of this posting is to get a "flatter" (and more natural sounding, in my opinion) bass response out of the ELS Sound System.

Note: This posting is a bit long, but hopefully it's good reading. You can just scroll down to the "Sonic Impressions" section if you want to see the results and skip the technical stuff.

OK, first a few disclaimers:

(1) If you think the ELS sound system (ELS SS) is weak in bass, you can stop here. As my measurements below show, the ELS System heavily boosts the bass at certain frequencies. The modifications suggested will attempt to flatten out those humps. This will lower some of the bass characteristics.

(2) This is mainly relevant to CD (not DVD-A) playback. The testing was done with a calibration CD. If the sound system manufacturer (Panasonic) wanted to apply different equalization curves for each of the source types (AM, FM, XM Radio, tape, DVD-A), this won't correct problems in those curves. However, if Panasonic didn't try to play games with the different sound sources (which is usually the case), this will help with almost all the music sources. The reason that I say "almost" is because of DVD-A. If DVD-A is anything like Dolby Digital or DTS (which I bet it is), there will be a different equalization curve for DVD-A than for any other sound source.

(3) I think the sound was improved significantly, especially in the midrange and the bass quality. You may not like the final results depending on your listening preferences, but give it a chance for a few days before deciding.

(4) This testing was done for about an hour at the dealership, since I haven't received my TL yet. The testing wasn't completely accurate, since I couldn't mount the SPL meter in a stable location. I tried to hold it in approximately the same spot each time. As a result I don't claim the test data is extremely accurate, but it is apparent by the trending of the data that the results are probably reliable enough and generally correct.

(5) I also did some other quick tests that aren't shown here. The quick tests showed if I was adjusting the bass controls in the proper direction.

(6) Your head position will be different from where mine was located. As a result, the frequency spectrum from your sitting position will be different. However, I moved the meter around a little during my testing, and the same general bass boosting described in the test data was still seen.

(7) Hopefully, the Navi system has the same settings as the non-Navi, since I tested on a non-Navi.

(8) Your results may vary.

Next, the test setup:

Vehicle: '04 TL, Manual Transmission, No Navigation, White with Ebony interior.

Source CD: I used Stereophile Test CD #1, STPH-002-2, which was created by Stereophile Magazine in 1990. I used tracks 20 through 31, which are described as follows:

[20] 1 kHz 1/3-octave warble tone at -20 dB
[21] 200 Hz 1/3-octave warble tone at -20 dB
[22] 160 Hz 1/3-octave warble tone at -20 dB
[23] 125 Hz 1/3-octave warble tone at -20 dB
[24] 100 Hz 1/3-octave warble tone at -20 dB
[25] 80 Hz 1/3-octave warble tone at -20 dB
[26] 63 Hz 1/3-octave warble tone at -20 dB
[27] 50 Hz 1/3-octave warble tone at -20 dB
[28] 40 Hz 1/3-octave warble tone at -20 dB
[29] 31.5 Hz 1/3-octave warble tone at -20 dB
[30] 25 Hz 1/3-octave warble tone at -20 dB
[31] 20 Hz 1/3-octave warble tone at -20 dB

- Notes on test tracks:

- (a) 1/3 octave frequency ranges are used because the human ear can easily detect a change in level if the entire 1/3 octave range is raised (or lowered). If a single frequency is boosted (an impulse), it is not as detectable, unless the source material contains a lot of information at that specific frequency.

- (b) Warble tones are used to prevent problems with standing waves.

Test Meter: Radio Shack Sound Level Meter, P/N 33-2050. Test Meter was set for "C" Weighting, "Slow" response.

Setup: The car windows were closed, the engine was idling. I was outside, with traffic from a major street a couple of hundred feet away. Due to ambient noise levels, I had to set the SPL meter for a level of 80 dB (annoying, but not too uncomfortable). This put the traffic & engine noise at least 10 db lower than the test signals, so they wouldn't significantly interfere with the results.

All settings on the ESL SS were "centered" (bass, treble, fader, balance, center, subwoofer) for the initial testing. Any modifications from these settings will be noted.

Testing:

The SPL meter was placed vertically at my approximate head position, a few inches in front of the head rest. I also centered the meter in the middle of the head rest since I was concerned about the sound from my position (my passengers can suffer! ). The meter was set vertically to prevent problems from directional sound sources. Using the 1 kHz warble test tone on track [20], I turned up the volume until the SPL meter was sitting at "0", which represented 80 dB. The volume level setting required to reach this point was "30" on the display.

With the 1 kHz reference tone set, I got the following readings for the tracks shown above. The values shown are in decibels (dB) deviation from 80dB SPL. Note that the ideal would be a reading of "0" for each of these values.

Test Results for "stock" settings (all controls centered):

[20] 0 dB
[21] -6 dB
[22] +4 dB
[23] +10 dB
[24] +9 dB
[25] +8 dB
[26] +4 dB
[27] +5 dB
[28] +8 dB
[29] +4 dB
[30] -8 dB
[31] -10 dB

From these test results, a few things can be determined:

- There is significant boosting occurring in the upper bass, somewhere around 125 Hz. This gradually descends down for the rest of the frequency range, but the bass level is always higher than optimal all the way down to 31.5 Hz.

- The bass is extended to at least 31.5 Hz, which is very good for a stock car system! There is no usable bass below around 30 Hz, which isn't surprising for a car environment with closed windows.

So, we want to bring down the entire bass range, without sacrificing the bass extension.

From here, I did a number of tests, and then settled on the following settings:

Bass: = -2
Subwoofer = -2


With these new settings, I reran the frequency response tests.

Test Results for "flatter" settings (Bass: = -2 and Subwoofer = -2, all other controls centered):

[20] 0 dB
[21] -6 dB
[22] 0 dB
[23] +6 dB
[24] +5 dB
[25] +3 dB
[26] -1 dB
[27] +1 dB
[28] 0 dB
[29] -2 dB
[30] -10 dB
[31] -10 dB

There's still some boosting going on in the upper bass, but it's not as bad. And, the mid bass and lower bass are about as best as you could ask for.

Finally, Sonic Impressions:

The reason I did this testing was because I didn't like the "stock" sound with all the controls centered. Vocals were being overwhelmed by the bass. There was a lot of music being heard, but it didn't seem to meld together very well. I found the overall sound annoying, especially with music that I was very familiar with.

Being an anal-retentive engineer and a stereophile, I felt that there was a need to fix this, or I wouldn't listen to the sound system very often - at least not for music.

After I changed the settings as described [Bass = -2, Subwoofer = -2], I listened to some of my familiar material. The vocals were improved significantly! There was still more bass than I was used to (probably because the ESL SS goes so darned low), and it was at an acceptable level. The sound was less congested as well - the music was more realistic and blended more as a whole.

Playing orchestral and jazz pieces, the sound was more open and natural to my ears. Rock sounded very good as well - there was still plenty of bass to go around, even with the reduced settings.

I switched back to the "stock" settings, and the problems I heard earlier resurfaced.

I think that the sound was greatly improved by the simple changes I described. Let me know your impressions!

Thanks for listening!

PS: When I get my Navi-based system in, I'll update this posting. I want to see if I can still flatten the response a bit more, too. I think that setting the bass to -3 may bring a better end result.

vtechbrain

I love your measurements, but as I said before they mean little since a car is not an anechoic chamber, most of all if the car is in motion!!!! The only way to adjust a car stereo satisfactorily is by ear!!!! The beauty off this system is how faithfully it reproduces sound under normal driving conditions, It demonstrates that acura went through great pains using living evaluators to adjust the sound satisfactorily. Measurements are cool science, unfortunately the science of electronics has little to do with the science of hearing. It's great that speaker X can reproduce sound from 20 to 20, unfortunately, only a whale can hear that range. Not only that ,our perception of sound varies with frequency therefore making that perfectly flat curve a fantasy anyway. So my 2 cts are as follows, give the tone generator a rest and listen, its the only way!!!

żGotJazz?

vtechbrain - I did listen. That's why I knew something was wrong. I disagree that the measurements mean little. They showed a marked boost in the bass response, which I already found to be a problem when I had listened to - not measured - the dealer's car (Mentioned in an another posting).

I can only guess why ELS set the bass this high for the default settings. Maybe they thought that people would be more impressed because of the higher bass levels. Certain speaker manufacturers definitely boost some of their bass to make them sound more impressive in the store.

Also, I know that the car isn't an anechoic chamber. It doesn't need to be for bass testing anyways. Anechoic chambers are more useful for midrange and high frequency testing.

The reason for attempting to get a flatter frequency response is simple: If you have a flat frequency response, you have a better chance of getting out of the system exactly what was put into the system. I'll agree that there's more than a flat frequency response required for good speaker sound (Transient response, harmonic distortion, and speaker surface deformations, just to name a few), but a flatter response sure helps to get you a lot closer to the mark.

Believe me, I've spent a lot of money on my home system (more than what my 'TL is costing me). I've been following stereo technology for over 20 years now. I know how important it is to listen to equipment before purchasing. However, speaker measurements do have their place. If you've got a +10 dB boost across a good portion of the bass (or midrange, or upper end), it won't be something that you can easily hide through other technology tricks. Overall, your response should be essentially flat for natural sound.

The reason I sent this posting out was to inform (and hopefully improve) the listening experience for others. Why don't you give it a try for a few days, and let me know what you think? You may actually even like it!

vtechbrain

In truth, My sub has been at -2 all along!!!! There is a little extra enfasis there!

princed

Wow -- that was a great post. I too have been disappointed with the exaggerated bass in the TL. String instruments (especially cellos and string basses) sound bloated and ill-defined and most CDs seem to me as if the sound is coming through a veil that filters out some of the the highs/mids. I currently have my bass at -2 and my treble at +1, but I'll try your suggestions tomorrow. XM appears to be the worst with bass boosting while CD is a bit better. The DVD-A is an immense improvement, and I find I have to change the sound settings whenever I switch from CD to DVD-A...

At home, I have Magnepan speakers, so I'm used to the beautiful, quasi-ribbon sound of my (relatively) little MMGs. I think that once you've become accustomed to clean, flat bass, it is very difficult to tolerate anything else. That being said, the interior of a car is acoustically one of the most challenging environments imaginable, and it amazes me that the ELS system does as well as it does...

Oh, and when I tested the TL's audio system shortly after its release, one of the salesguys started the system, went to the "Sound" menu, and immediately turned the bass and subwoofer to their maximum levels. He looked at me, smiled and said "Amazing, huh?" I guess they see a guy in his 20s and figure he MUST want boomy bass, hehe...

żGotJazz?

vtechbrain - Cool!

If you try setting the bass for -2, let me know what you think about the vocals. This is where I found the best improvement, so far.

princed - I haven't tried to do any testing with the upper frequencies yet. I found the bass to be the biggest problem by far.

It's kinda hard to do a lot of critical listening, since I haven't had as much time with the system as I would like. I don't want to hang around the dealership too much, or people will start to talk ...

I can't wait for my 'TL to arrive ...

żGotJazz?

RJC RSX

good stuff, i'm going to try this now. thanks!

on another note, i want a 30K+ home audio system

neuronbob

GotJazz, thank you for your measurements. I have definitely learned from them. Having just spent a lot of money (not as much as you have) on my new home theater just because I bought a TL, I am interested in learning about sound dynamics and have started reading about it.

I found in my car that the ideal setting was with the bass at +2, but even at the "stock" settings, this stereo sounds better than the POS Bose on the prior TL.

żGotJazz?

RJC RSX - No, you don't.

I once told a friend of mine who was thinking about getting into high-end equipment that he should take up heroin instead. It's less addictive and he'll save money!

Seriously, I'm pretty fortunate - I've invested wisely in stereo equipment over the years, and I haven't felt a strong need to replace much for quite a while.

One thing that I've found is that you can get very good bargains by buying pre-owned high-end equipment (even speakers!). If you can find out more about the previous owner's listening preferences, you can figure out if they are likely to destroy their equipment. For example, I bought my Martin Logan Quest front speakers from a dude down in Florida. When I called him to talk about the speakers, his wife told me he was at a concert. When I asked who was playing, she mentioned the it was "some guest violinist at the symphony". When she told me that, I knew the speakers were lovingly handled!

A good place to find pre-owned equipment is Audiogon.

About 50% of the high-end equipment I own has been "previously loved".

żGotJazz?

RJC RSX

Interesting. Well I just burned some great tunes and used these settings:

Balance: 0
Fade: +1
Bass: -2
Treble: +1
Subwoofer: -2
Center: 0

I must say the bass/sub adjustment really makes a difference! At 0, they really rob the vocals and take away from the highs, but at -2 everything is much more clear. Even with some heavy rap music, the bass hits just right. Thanks again for the informative findings!

acuraddict

Does "Fade: +1" mean one notch above center to the front speakers, or one notch down to favor the rears?

żGotJazz?

acuraddict -

My thoughts - I would recommend trying the settings I came up with first before adjusting the fader or balance, and see if you like the results. Adjust the fader from there, if you feel like you need to.

Keep in mind that adjusting the fader/balance will modify the readings I came up with.

I don't think that fader/balance should ever really need to be adjusted in a car, if the manufacturer did their job right. Adjusting the fader/balance shouldn't ever increase output from any speakers - the fader/balance control should only decrease speaker outputs. For example, moving the fader from "center" to "full front" will change the rear speakers from full output to no output, respectively. Your front speakers will not be affected by adjusting the fader to "full front". Nothing should be getting "boosted" as a result of changing the fader/balance controls.

If you are getting too much info from the rears, a lot of the stereo sound will sound like it's coming from behind you. If that's the case (and not what you want), set the fader more forward.

Don't get me started on balance adjustments, since they really don't make sense in a car environment - there's no way that you'll get the "stereophonic effect" (Hey, that's where the "stereo" name comes from!) in a car. The "stereophonic effect" (which most people don't even know about) is an auditory trick that allows your ears to pick out and isolate individual instruments horizontally between the front two speakers - and if done right - with vertical localization and how deep into the stage.

Have you ever seen those pictures a few years back that looked like bizzare artwork until you de-focused your eyes, and then you saw a 3-D picture appear? The stereophonic effect is similar, except for your ears.

OK ... I guess that I got myself started on balance controls anyways.

I'll try calming down now. The beer should be kicking in any second now.

Anyways, try the settings I suggested first, and let us know what you think!

żGotJazz?

jshih57

I tend to agree that bass seems to be boosted, it will be great if the system has an equalizer or at least an additional mid-range control, like in the Audi's.

I was thinking of changing the head unit, but just can't see how to do it without effecting the looks of the beautiful center console.

frqwntbyr

Fantastic discussion. I doubt I'd have tried this w/out something to back it up. Case in point: it took me two days to figure out that boosting the center chanel moved my music to the right. I agree w/acuraddict--I like the vocals in front, so +1 imho. I'll try the -2/-2 on the way to work and may have to take the long way.

żGotJazz?

jshih57 - I agree! An equalizer would be nice! Especially a 1/3 octave equalizer.

Has anyone seen the Mark Levinson stereo in the Lexuses (or is it Lexi?)? Does it come with an equalizer?

That would be pretty radical compared to the typical Mark Levinson designs I have seen in the past ... Mark Levinson home preamplifiers don't have bass or treble controls.

żGotJazz?

automophile

D'Oh! I am embarrased that I didn't thing of this!

This is GREAT information. My ears have been telling me that the upper mids are low in level, and you CAN'T boost this with the treble control - the corner frequency is too high.

Dropping the bass and sub has the desired effect of boosting the mids and highs, and the system sounds MUCH better! It also increases the system headroom, letting you play it louder without clipping the electronics (As IF it isn't loud enough!)

When I have some time, I will drag my Audio Control 1/3 octave analyzer out to the care a do a full sweep and let you know how it is from 20-20K.

Thanks again for the great info!

JonDeutsch

Well, we already know the manufacturer didn't get the bass settings right, right?

Adjusting the fader does have some interesting affect in the TL. I think the rear speakers are full range uni-drivers, which is obviously a less than ideal speaker array. It's possible that focusing on the dedicated driver array in the front would be a passable solution to improving sound further.

As for me (I don't even have the car yet), I somehow prefer my sound coming from the rear of a car rather than the front. Why? Maybe it's because of the angles, it's truly giving me more of that stereophonic imaging that GotJazz spoke of earlier in this thread.

Jon

frqwntbyr

OK, I tried it. Depending on the music selection, -2/-2 worked well, but overall I ended up at 0 all around at the end of the day. Much better than yesterday, when I was boosting bass and sub. But while I was at it, I faded 1 left. Don't know why, call me crazy, but for my ears that centered things (could be ear wax). Thanks for the suggestions.

princed

I tried it today as well, and I am MUCH happier with the -2/-2 settings recommended. Thanks GotJazz!

InAcura

They boost the bass of car stereo's on purpose to make up for the masking effects of low frequency noise that is generated while driving the car. When the car is not moving, the sound will be bass heavy since no low frequency noise is present. If you correct the bass for this condition, then when travelling on the highway the bass will sound thin. The reason the bass rolls off after the boost is simply the inability of the subwoofer to produce very loud low frequency sound.

RJC RSX

that's interesting. indeed, i only tested the adjustment parked

InAcura

It actually gets more complicated than that, since the masking effect is reduced when playing the stereo at high volumes. Proper calibration includes measuring the frequency response and loudness of the car's background noise. The results are then combined with the Fletcher-Munson curve (which takes into account the ear’s low frequency sensitivity drop off at low volumes) to arrive at the correct boost. I use to do this using a spectrum analyzer and binaural microphones. I found, in the end, it wasn't worth the trouble and now adjust mostly by ear using an Alpine test CD. Then I use the spectrum analyzer to smooth out the bumps (usually by adjusting the subwoofer cross over frequencies). I suspect for a quiet car like the TL, the factory bass boost is about right for highway driving, but the sound may be bass heavy at lower speeds. If you listen to rock, it won’t matter. Turning the bass down -2 sounds like a good fix for around town driving.

svtmike

I tried the -2/-2 and to my ears (which I will admit were somewhat abused during my more youthful days) there was almost no bass anymore. And that was with the car parked.

For me, +1/+1 to +2/+2 on the bass/sub sounds the most pleasing (depending somewhat on the source material of course).

Mike

żGotJazz?

InAcura - I wondered if the bass was boosted to cover road noise, but I still found the amount of bass way too high even when city driving and highway driving.

I had difficulty pulling out the lyrics while stationary, and it was even worse while driving. I would tend to compare the "stock" sound of the ELS SS to "rock concert" equalization ... lots-o-bass and don't worry too much about the midrange.

(Side note: I sure wish that the dudes that are mixing the sound during rock concerts knew how messed up the sound sometimes is. I was at a Heart concert where the sound was so bright and bass heavy that about 2/3 of the audience left well before the concert was over - myself included. I was at a Dave Matthews concert where Dave's mic was off for the entire concert. Sigh ...)

Don't you think that centering all the controls should provide the "flattest" sound, not the manufacturer's idea of what the sound should be reequalized to? Maybe I'm naive, but I think it makes more sense to hear what "flat" sounds like for a while, and adjust the sound from there.

svtmike - Thanks for giving it a shot! I'm glad you were able to get sound out of the ELS SS that you really like.

erikg

I was told that if I installed a new pre-amp, I would beable to boost the mids on the pre-amp to bring to vocals and mid-range up, which I also found to be a problem. I'm also experiencing some distortion that I though might be solved.

erikg

BostonSilverTypeS

well i tried your method gotjazz?...and i found that it was better than stock and i could see with your style of music it would suit your needs better.....Now I listen to more Hip-hop music (rap,r&b,reggae ect) and I found that these settings were perfect for me and the music I listen to.....

Bass: -2
Treble: +2
Center: +1
Subwoofer: -1

Also depending on how high you like to turn the volume ie: 20range or 30plus range then you can adjust the settings accordingly to get the best sound at that range, although with these settings I have gone all the way to Max Volume and still got crisp sound coming from the speakers which is pretty good considering the music I'm playing. All in all ELS could've been better but You can still make it work ith any type of music, whether its Opera,Jazz,Classical,Hip-hop whatever.......Good write up either way GotJazz? and Enjoy the Sound everyone