Lore

fla-tls,

Any luck?

fla-tls

Sorry man - I haven't been able to get on the site too often lately. I'm in the process of closing on a business and will be out of town almost all of January. I'll try to do it by the end of the year.

Lore

No problem! Thanks for the update. Good luck with that closing.

fuque

Thanks for taking one for the team.

I just got a Pioneer dual layer burner; before I read your post I was planning to try burning a backup of my nav disc. Thanks for saving me the $7.50

lindros2

i'm interested to hear whether this works too...

VTEC11

So, it looks like the DL backups will work in all gen2 TL's ? If so, that's great news.

Pankul

hmm ... so i read the whole 4 page thingy .. and (unless I missed something) no success RIGHT ?

ElmerHiggins

We really need a software engineer or a programmer to look into this. IT CANT BE THAT HARD, I just dont see how we are getting stymied by this. I will be asking around for someone that might be able to assist us in backing up our navi's and let you guys know. So far, I'm almost certain that the encryption is what is stopping us. What do you guys think?

topprospect

Well, as I see it from reading this thread and unsuccessfully trying to backup my own TL '04 Navi disc, there are two possibilities:

1. The 3G Navi DVD reader is calibrated so that it cannot physically read burned DL-DVD's. My understanding is that the amount of light reflected off the surface of a burned disc is significantly less than the light reflected off a original, pressed disc. We should create a list of all the media types that we have tried. There are only a few disc manufacturers, but maybe we haven't tried one that will work. I've tried and failed with these types:

Verbatim (media code: MKM.....001)
Memorex (media code: Ritek D01)


2. Acura/Alpine added copy protection in the 3G models--something like the XBox and PS2 protection. XBox and PS2 leverage the fact that consumer DVD burners can't burn a perfect 1:1 copy. For instance, I believe PS2 discs actually intentionally have 'bad' sectors that the console checks before authenticating the disc. When we try to copy the disc, our PC's DVD drive reads the but "fixes" those bad sectors using error correction. When we burn the disc, the image that is written out no longer has the bad sectors that the console will be checking for. Anyway, it is possible that Acura/Alpine did something like this. It seems a bit unlikely though--I can't imagine that piracy of the Navi discs has been rampant in the past??


Let's get this thread rollin'!

wakattack

Some other quick thoughts on the issue..

I wasted 5 Verbatim DL disks on the project too.. I think most likely
the drive just simply cannot read the DL disks.. To bad they don't
make a DVD-R DL .

I did try making one DVD-R with all but one file on it. It didn't
work, but perhaps, I need to try it again with another type of settings.
It would be a great leap forward, and is must cheaper to mess with
the DVD-R's altough they won't hold all the data. It would prove a lot
if we could get the Navi to boot with one of these discs, even if it
does error out.

I would take a hunch that they didn't put a lot of protection into it.
Otherwise we wouldn't be able to read the CD-r's with the BIOS trick,
at least this is my guess.

So we just need a CD-R that will hold 6 gig

It would be mildly interesting to try to see what could be done with
the PC Card slot. Perhaps a hard drive adapter with all the files on it.

Another possibility although I believe it remote, is to swap the DVD drive
out with a more friendly model.

wakattack

Here are some Projects:


TEST BOOTING WITH DVD-R:
- Practice working with cheap media, to see if we can get the Navi to halfway
boot with the smaller disk. This we can do this, then we will know that
there is not Xbox style security on the system..

PC CARD SLOT:
- See if we can use this as a bootable device, put in a hard drive adapter,
load it up with all the files.

DRIVE RESEARCH:
- What is the DVD-DRIVE, who actually built the internals, is it swappable with
another unit.

HOT SWAP DVD:
- If we could find a way to hot swap, a copied DVD into the system after it boots,
this could tell us a lot.

SOFTWARE:
- Reverse engineering the software could be broken into multiple parts.
I understand it is Windows CE based, and a bit of the BIN files are encrypted.
- A rude hack of the database, to eliminate parts of it, just to build a file that
could fit on a standard DVD-R could also be useful.

wakattack

Another Project:

Original DVD Physical ANalysis:
- Determine how exactly the DVD is put together. Does it appear to be pulling any tricks.

StuartHDuzan

Another way of handling updates, which TL owners are entitled to have, is to have Owner Number 1 purchase each year an update. Those of us who want to update yearly pays to that person $5.00. Then those people on the subscription list in the respective order will receive the original DVD Navigation update and will forward to the next person. Confirmation and who will receive the original will be identified on this website. If one ever needs to have their system flashed due to loss of memory (very rare), they can contact the number 1 caretaker of the original disc.

I am sure someone can figure out perhaps a better way, but it is a thought. At least all of us can stay current for $5.00/year.

Lore

I don't fully understand what you're suggesting, but each navigation update is a stand-alone disc that you must keep in your car. Your suggestion implies that 1) you can go ahead and update the car's memory with the updates on an annual basis, which doesn't work since Acura does not (to the best of my knowledge) release incremental update discs.

Misha322

Ok, I have a 2nd gen. TLS. I just purchased the new updated for Navi. The Ver. 2.20. I was trying to make a copy of it for back up, and after 2 costars now, no success. I used Verbatim DVD+R DL. Software I tried was DVD Cloner II that dose not recognize Navy DVD as a DVD and wont do a thing, also tried 1 Click DVD Copy, with the same problem. I was able to copy it with the Nero, but as from what I read previously on this thread, it would only be readable in my Burner, and not any where else. Any suggestions???

Misha322

Fla-tls:

I too live in the Orlando area. I would really appreciate any pointers you can give or any help.

Thank You!

angler67

It is very simple, the drive cannot read DVD+RDL media. It is not the same as production DVD-9 media. The same problem still exists with CD+-R/RW. Honda Acura players could not read them until recently(2003 TL could not read RW), even thogh the technology was readily available in the consumer reader market. They (Alpine) have no encentive to add that functionality to the firmware of their OEM NAV units.

It may happen over time but enough people have enough coasters with all available media.

ElmerHiggins

Then maybe changing the optical pickup on the unit with another model that reads all media types is a possible solution?

angler67

It's hard to say. It could be the laser or it could be the firmware. I suppose there are some EE types out there that would feel comfortable doing that, but I do not think most others will risk killing the DVD unit, which may serve other purposes as there is a memory slot in it.

Like most others, I think the $175 is too steep for a map update to a NAV system, and would not mind sharing the load , but ... I would also like the decryption key for DVD-Audio to consolidate DVD-A songs I like onto best of discs. That is the equivalent to a virus definition update and that is FREE every week for a year at about $25/yr service renewal rate. Especially in a $35K car. But, I do not want to possibly destroy (cause $100's damage) to the NAV system. I suppose if you update every 2 years it's about $100/yr which is more palatable.

bosoxfan

was anyone able to successfully burn the dvd? could someone send me the iso image so i could try?

thanks!

t951

rmastbro I also live in Debary!
I have an 05 TL A-Spec NHB
I have 3.40A

Lore

I think it would be much easier to simply replace the drive with an after-market unit. I'd think they are simply IDE drives with nothing proprietary except its weirder slot-loading function.

tommyz

explaination on dvd dl technology. There may have been a deliberate attempt to not update the dvd-reader of the navi unit so it will not read home recordable dvd+DL. Likely a firmware (dvd drive) update could handle that, but they probably disabled that as well.

check out media article
http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/artic...77,pg,4,00.asp


according to this article dvd dl rewriteable should be around by year end. Likely still with same issue as our current dilemna

http://www.pcworld.com/howto/article...,120440,00.asp

topprospect

To prove that the dvd drive in the TL can or cannot read DL media, we should try the 'change your navi's picture' hack using DL media. That would tell us whether or not it was the media or some other form of copy protection.

I'll try it tonight unless someone else already has.

Crusader_RENAMED

topprospect, did it work?