Holy..S... that car looks nice(even without A-spec).....
Do you know if they will ever make that car Rear Wheel Drive?
If they make this RWD....BMW, Lexus, and Merceds are in serious trouble...

 

I concur...

The only fault I find with my 04TL is the fact that is is a FWD...

This would be as close to a perfect car with RWD...

 

the more likely option would be sh-awd

 

What is the difference between RWD and AWD....?

 

RWD = read wheel drive, the back 2 wheels propel the car foward.
AWD = all wheel drive, all 4 wheels have the ability to propel the car foward.

sh-awd is basically fwd with a modified rwd addition. the car uses the front 2 wheels most the time unless the awd system detects the need for it and then can transfer power to the rear wheels when needed. its like nissan's system but they use rwd as default until there is slippage and then transfers power to the front.

 

Honda will never create a RWD sedan. They've gone on record saying that FWD is far more efficient. What they have recognized (likely via the TL's bad press on oversteer) is that the horsepower wars climbing towards 300 is just too much for the front wheels to handle alone, and thus the SH-AWD system on the RL.

I think starting in 2006 you'll see every Acura product offered with two options:

1. Navigation.

2. 50 extra HP + SH-AWD + sport body components.

BJ

 

i agree i dun think acura will ever make a rwd sedan. but with the addition of the new sh-awd system it makes things alot more interesting. with the horsepower wars climbing everyday there is no way a fwd system can handle all that power and deliver it to the ground efficiently.

 

so...Sh-AWD is better/or at least equal than/to RWD? and also will making this car SH-AWD solve rattling problem?

 

There are many (myself included) who think this will be the biggest innovation in any Honda product since the 4WS (four wheel steering) system found in the 80's Prelude.

In theory, it's a FWD car that converts itself on the fly to an AWD vehicle. Think of it as your VSA on massive steroids where instead of limiting power to a certain wheel or applying brakes to help assist in a potential skid the system transfers significant horsepower to the wheel. Many AWD cars 'cheat' the true horsepower of the car by plunking down power equally to all the wheels. The RL will put the power where it's needed, and thus not sacrifice acceleration while simultaneously increasing handling capabilities marketly. It's supposed to make the car more sticky than any other RWD competitor in its class.....quite exciting.





BJ

 

.... and yet they created a RWD sports car. They must have concluded that traditional sports car look and feel outweighed "efficiency." Sure, "efficiency" in packaging is more important in a high-production sedan than in a low-production sports car. Still, the same reasoning that led them to make the S2000 RWD could also be applied to a sport sedan like the TL in the future - RWD is just the better, more-balanced format for a sporting vehicle, whether it has two seats or five.

 

sh-awd would have added lots of weight to the s2000 taking away from its power to weight ratio. the great thing about that little roadster is its handling, adding more weight to it will surely effect that. besides the s2000 has remained relatively unchanged since its debut. if it was to receive an awd system it would be in another generation of the s2000.

 

Awd > Rwd

 

Honda has made it clear that RWD isn't going to happen in their mainstream vehicles - FWD and AWD is going to be it.

I think you will see AWD becoming the standard mode on all mid price and up vehicles in the future. Simple fact is that AWD is the best method to achieve superior handling and stability of a vehicle.

Both RWD and FWD have the positives and negatives and AWD gives you the best of both worlds.

The debate will be over the merits of a FWD oriented AWD (Honda & Audi as examples) vs RWD oriented AWD (MB, BMW, etc.)

 

June 19th, 2005 at 7:30AM

 

I agree with most...

Acura/Honda will unfortunately never go to RWD...

Afterall they (Acura) don't make pure sport cars... but rather sporty entry-luxo and luxo cars... (for me sport car = rwd)

But their likely use of SH-AWD is going to be a great addition to a great car and will take out competitors like AUDI's venerable Quattro, and BMW's Xis...

All good for making the TL a superb world-class car.

Cyall

 

needtlnow, by making suspension tweaks to the stock TL, you can reduce most of the handling differences between it and a RWD car. Just ask anyone here who's driven or owned a BMW and a TL. Adding A-Spec suspension gives you less body roll and better composure over road defects, and makes the rather loose steering much tighter. Adding a thicker rear sway bar, particularly on a 5AT TL, makes the car less likely to have understeer in turns (it makes the car more "neutral"). The car won't be a BMW, but will handle close to it.

HTH.

By the way, if Acura made the TL RWD, it would be unstoppable compared to the competition. However, just getting SH-AWD should do the trick nicely, especially if Acura can find ways to reduce the weight (or just increases the power--unlikely with a 300 hp RL).

 

maybe they should ask MB how they get there AWD system down to only 200 lbs.

 

If you compare it to the VTM-4 which is more similar to the MB 4matic AWD than SH-AWD, then MB should ask Honda how to make it less than 120 lbs

VTM-4 = 118 Lbs

 

I think that more and more AWD sedans, especailly higher end ones will start appearing. These days in the US, sedans just cannot compete with the rising number of Trucks and SUV's on the road unless similarly equipped, meaning 4WD. Plus, people that get high end cars usually like it to be "the" car with everything they want, which includes a good handling sedan in bad weather. Sure it would be nice to have a convertible for sunny days, SUV for bad weather days and camping and such, regular sedan for eveyday use, car for impressing the valet, etc. We all just don't have this kind of money. I think Acura/Honda does a good job of trying to market their cars to the largest amount of people possible. SH-AWD may be the best system out when it comes for the RL. It provides up to 70% RWD under full throttle so you get sport car response, while still having enough traction under slippey conditions. Because of the torque transfer system pioneered in the Prelude, you also get the stability of AWD. Best of all worlds.

 

Basically right, but not quite as you said. The Nissan system which I'm guessing you are talking about the G35X new attesa system. It does used 100% rear until the front is needed for better traction like snow.

On the other hand the SH-AWD is not FWD nor RWD at any given time. Is an all time AWD. The system is either 30/70 or 70/30 so at all time all 4 wheels are getting power. Now take it a step further SH-AWD splits power between rear wheels 100/0 0/100 in other words the left wheel could have all the power or vise versa. There is NO need for wheel slippage to activate the rear wheels to 70% or vise versa. The RL continuously transfer torque for many reasons including cornering, acceleration, and breaking. The only similarity between the Nissan attesa system and Honda SH-AWD is that they used electromagnetic clutches, but Honda uses 2. Honda SH-AWD has a yaw sensor and it also knows by steering input how the car is going to turn. SH-AWD was engineer for performance and not just safety or traction.

THE RL only uses the 70/30 split while under light acceleration or highway. hope this clears some stuff posted above. If more question please feel free to PM me.

 

Agree. A likly option will be a G35-type AWD system where more power is transfered to rear wheels, maybe.

 

i am a bit skeptical to this, i am a former 3 series driver and the handling on the bmw is very different than the TL. the bmw was much more nuetral and i did not feel any of this torque steer. i know everyone will say the torque steer is minimal but i feel it when accelerating hard through corners. i cannot imagine adding any suspension components to minimize this.

 

I also agree that suspension enhancement has its limits. I believe that weight balance is a huge issue with regards to vehicle handling. Acuras in general are front heavy, and this will cause poorer handling.

 

The torue steer is definitely a problem on turns putting power down. If you hold the steering wheel tight it is better, but comparable to wrestling a bull to keep the car from jittering. Yes, weight distribution helps in handling and BMW has 50/50. Meanwhile TL is 60/40, not intentionally, but with the front wheels steering AND driving there are alot of components up front. The question I have is, will SH-AWD include four wheel steering?

 

The new RL comes with an electronically controlled steering. It is no longer mechanically adjusted. This means the new steering will be more precise and will have better control on steering feedback....in other words less torque steering feeling and tighter high speed steering feeling.

Would we see this new system on the TL, probably...when I don't know. If we don't see SH-AWD I'm sure we will see this.

 

I agree somewhat with both of you, but feel I am still mostly correct. The handling on the TL can be significantly improved with the measures I suggested, but you're absolutely right that some things cannot be overcome--specifically the fact that the weight balance in the TL is 60-40 f-r and the BMW 3-series is closer to 50-50. And don't forget that the TL is something of a porker compared to a 330i (3285 # vs. 3582 #). I kenna change the laws of physics, Cap'n!

 

So what is the NSX?? A RWD sports car!

 

The S2000 is a sports car as well!

 

Part of the reason besides being sporty cars that the NSX AND S2000 are RWD is they aren't marketed like sedans are. The TL is based off the Accord/Odyssey platform. As soon as those go RWD, so will the TL. If the NSX and S2000 used sedan platforms, they would probably not be RWD.

 

This is very . You want RWD, that is what the competition is for. That is why you have a choice. Honda has done really well to date with FWD and offering I-4s and V-6s. The TL is selling better than ever.
WHY WOULD THEY SWITCH?????

AWD will add 200lbs to the TL, it will make it slower and it will add $2,000 to the price.

And until the Accord goes AWD, it won't happen. Period.

If you don't know anything about Honda, Honda=efficiency, environment, small auto company that rarely takes big steps. And they are dang good at it.

 

Granted, but those two aforementioned cars are no comparison for "true" RWD sports cars out there. My opinion (no flames pls) i.e.: Corvette, Viper, Skyline, et al...

Also Corey415 if you look at my post I was talking about Acura (not Honda) - still two different companies in my mind so S2000 doesn't belong in this discussion...

And so, you guys, the only car you could bring up is the NSX, and if you look back at the history of the NSX it was and still is a "cult" oddity, rather than a world class sports car

One thing to remember as well is that the NSX is a transverse mounted mid-engine car... and not the traditional RWD (configured engine in front and transaxle in the back)

And as stated by nightrider we are all slaves to the auto industry's lust for platform whoring...

My $0.02
Thanks guys
Peace
Salut

 

acura and RWD's dont mix.. that's a fact

 

Yeah, I wish I could have an AWD TL so that I can find myself off the highway in a ditch like a lot of the other 4WD/AWD vehicles I see during snowstorms up here in the Northeast. Truth is, in all my years of driving, I have rarely (OK, once) run into a situation in which AWD may have helped. I was driving a FWD car with practically bald front tires in a snowstorm trying to get up a pretty tough hill (yeah, that was stupid - but it wasn't my car, so I didn't know). Now, if you live in the mountains where they seldom plow, I could see where AWD and a good set of snow tires would make life a lot easier. Truth is, most people live in areas that are plowed before the snow even falls, so AWD isn't that much of a factor. It's a fad, and something that those slick marketing folks can sell easily and get lots of $$ for.

As for RWD, there have been very few times I have ever desired RWD specifically. Either one done well works for me - RWD or FWD. I have driven fun cars in both RWD and FWD, and excellent handling cars in both formats as well. I have also driven crappy cars in both formats. If I'm looking for a pure sports car, and plan to take it to the limit at the track or other venue, I will probably opt for a RWD. However, on the street, in a sedan (sport or otherwise), either one works for me. In fact, I chose the TL over other RWD sedans because it just felt better to me (slow, fast, and in between).

My point is, who cares what wheels do the driving. If you like how the car drives, and it handles to your liking, then it doesn't matter. If you live where it snows, get a good set of snow tires regardless of whether you have RWD, FWD, or AWD.

 

Strangely enough, even though I live in the desert, I use 4WD lots - every time it rains, in fact! All our current vehicles are RWD with 4WD and range between a pain in the ass to downright bloody dangerous in the wet if you try to drive without 4WD. It's just too easy to lose your back end, even at slow speed

I would never buy a RWD car without 4WD. Historically, we've always had FWD except for the SUV's, which have always had 4WD. I'm seriously thinking of the new RL, just for this interesting new SH-AWD.

Oh, and the people in the ditches just prove that some folks never learn how to drive in the snow... happens up on Mount Charleston all the time!!

 

First of all the Skyline is AWD. The skyline is configure as a sedan modified as a coupe. The NSX is a true sports car. Mid and rear engines are better than front, just like the SUPER sport cars like Mclaren, ferrari, lambo and others, which oculd cost more than a million dollars.

the only reason the NSX, Supra, RX8, and skyline don't have over 280hp stock in japan is because nissan, toyota, mazda, honda have a agreement not to do so, which in my opinion was a great idea, because it created a huge aftermarket, like HKS, apexi, etc.

 

well said

 

What you said is just a myth about AWD. This myth exist because there are not too many AWD sedan/coupe in US market. This is just simply not true. AWD is only better in xtreme weather/climate condition. In normal weather (dry road/rain), AWD isn't as good as RWD in terms of handling, accerlation, stopping, fuel efficiency, responsiveness, fun .... This is why you are seeing less and less race car, track car, GT with AWD setup. AWD is mostly in rally racing.

You can go test drive car with RWD and AWD build on the same platform, like G35/G35X, 330i/330Xi. You will feel the difference immediate. This what made me give up AWD options.

However, AWD is a very good option for those who live in mountain area, where extreme weather (snow, ice), and road condition happen often. If you don't really encoutner this situaiton often, I will say get a RWD car.

[QUOTE=Bitium]The new RL comes with an electronically controlled steering. It is no longer mechanically adjusted. This means the new steering will be more precise and will have better control on steering feedback....in other words less torque steering feeling and tighter high speed steering feeling.[QUOTE]

This is NOT true either. A good implementation of the mechanical rack and pinon steering system with hydrolic assist will offer a whole lot more feedback than electronic assist steering. And the mechanical set up will still be more precise.

Electronic feedback system actually offer little to no feedback. On steering, test drive the new BMW 5 series with and without the active steering. You will feel that the active steering system feel more isolated, it is a very cool system tho.

For other electronic systems, test drive the new E-class, it has the electronics assisst brake system, it is also a very good system, but offer zero brake feedback.

eel

 

Really?! What are you driving on? Slicks? A good set of summer tires will usually perform excellently in the wet. I would think in the desert they would be even better because of the heat (OK so the tread life is probably short). If you lose your back end going slow, either the tires have no tread on them, or you're giving it way too much throttle around corners.

I can't agree with that more. However, I also think that folks with AWD or 4WD tend to think they're invincible in the snow. They don't realize that two of the more dangerous problems (stopping and roadholding) have nothing to do with which wheels are doing the driving. These are things that can only be improved with a good set of winter tires (and even studs/chains if the conditions are really that bad). Most people driving AWD/RWD are happy with driving standard all-seasons, most of which are a serious compromise in the snow.

 

I totally agree with you here. A lot of people over estimate the ability of AWD car and get into accident, on snow or on twist.

AWD only help for the "get-going" part of the driving, and because the added weight and usually higher ride height, they don't stop as good and they don't grip as good either. This is especially true for AWD car that is base on a FWD platform.

Like I said, it is a myth. Too bad that most of our daily driving car is FWD these days, no body come to realize and appriciiate the benefit of RWD platform anymore. so sad!

eel

 

Is still a mechanical rack and pinion with hydrolic assist, is just the valves are electronically controlled. Meaning they can be more precise. Plus how could you say is no true either if you haven't try it. All I'm saying that it might be better, not that it actually is and that it might be the solution to the TL's torque steering feeling.

Tell that to a skyline owner with 1000hp under the hood. Oh please give me a break. AWD is so much better than RWD, is just the most companies set them up to deal with weather conditions. Only 2 companies have develop performance minded AWD system that is nissan with attesa ETS system on the skyline and Honda with the new RL. Is not your traditionary AWD system, these are advance systems that increase handling, acceleration and responsiveness. There is nothing outthere better than the new SH-AWD. SH-AWD would outhandled just about anyother car with similar carateristics except RWD, even if the RWD has an LSD. Honda has been working on SH-AWD for more than 10 years, no wonder thay were never interested on RWD, they knew they had something better, they just needed the technology to go with it and cost effective.

A AWD will always have a head start on any RWD car with similar tires, that is just a fact.