Given that Acura has acknowledged that the benchmark that it used was the BMW 5 series, why wouldn't Acura make the TL rear wheel propelled...this would allow it to make the car inherently a much sportier car... because it would allow for a 50-50 weight distribution...It think going to rear wheel would make the TL as close to perfect as one would expect for $35k...It would be a no brainer decision for me to buy if Acura would just make a RWD TL! Would be much more fun to drive...It would end the endless BMW versus Acura argument...

 

Not necessarely. The RWD thing is grossly overdone. 95% of people don't care. I WANT my car to be a front-driver.

 

I prefer front drivers as well. Yeah RWD cars are more fun when you want to stomp on it and hit the twisties but in reality I commute 50 miles a day up and down the Turnpike. RWD isn't going to do anything for me there and FWD is great at 6:30-7:00pm when its dark with snow all over the place.

I still love to see all the 4wd SUVs on the side of the road every winter. That sure makes me want to go out and get one

 

One practical reason why Honda makes front drive cars is because of efficiency. Power does not need to be transfered to a real wheel drivetrain hence less weight, less power loss, better economy in a small package. The configuration was marketed as a benefit for many reasons. Honda sold many cars because they were economical and practical (conservative company). That's why we need to wait so long to get a car that does not look like a Honda! Some people are slow to change.

 

It's been working for them all these years, and we still buy their cars so why switch?

 

in reply to S lady...it's been working but they could capture a lot more people who are buying 3 and 5 series because they don't have much of an alternative for a reliable RWD...also the debate that FWD are better in foul weather is sort of moot these days with all the electonics check and balances in a car...why are most German cars and true sports car rear wheel drive...essentially for handling...and if a car handles better isn't that safety in itself?

 

Saftey electronics cannot make up for the added weight (traction) over the drive wheels in a FWD auto. IN a couple of inches of snow, the afforementioned RWD's will not keep up with the TL and it's ilk.

Besides. BMW could have a LOT more market share if it offered some FWD cars.

One of the biggest reasons that Honda continues on the FWD path is MONEY. It would cost millions upon millions of dollars, for them to design and implement a RWD platform to for TL and others. They make a pretty nice profit now.

And not as many people as you think buy BMW for the RWD. They buy it for the name. And I'm not talking about htose that hang out in these forums. Those folks would most likely want RWD for the performance reasons. But these forums are a small fraction of the performance oriented representation in this market segment.

 

yes i agree with some of the things already being said...the point is if Acura is ever going to be serious about making a true "sport sedan", which implies supreme handling, it cannot get there sticking to a FWd configuration...Look at the competition in the near luxury maket:

BMW 3 series- RWD
BMW 5 series-RWD
Cadillac CTS-RWD
Lexus GS300/400-RWD
Infiniti G35-RWD
Audi A4 Quattro-RWD
Mercedes C class and E class- RWD

Are these competitors all wrong in their techinical thinking about handling?

Acura is third right now behind BMW and Lexus in the near luxury market in term of volume sold...My thesis is that configuring the car as a RWD could capture all those craving for a combination of real "sport sedan" handling with a fanstatic interior as the TL has now for $35k...

the investment might not be as much as one would think as Acura already has the RWD technology from the NSX, the S2000 and its Formula 1 racing experience.

 

Why Get RWD?

AWD is the next best thing, no problems in snow, and better handling!

 

1. Lexus
2. BMW
3. Benz

I am not sure where Acura falls but they are not in the top 3. THe 5, E and GS are the luxury market. Indeed. The company philosophy dictates sticking to FWD. Nothing wrong with that, they sell tons of cars.

 

I have always had front wheelers and have always been satisfied. Honda sells nothing but with the exception of their SUVs. I think rear drivers are overrated.

 

I guess BMW, Lexus, Benz, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Ferrari, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Lamborghini, Panoz, McLaren (the GREATEST car ever made)Bugatti, Porsche, Vettes, Vipers, Mustangs are pretty damn overrated and have had the engine pull the wrong wheels for over 100 years now....

 

Acura makes FWD cars because it selles it's cars for cheap. So they have to be cheap and so they have to be FWD. Now if you do not feel any difference between FWD and RWD , buy FWD. Why waste money? For those how do feel the difference RWD is a much better choice even in snow. E.g. which car you would prefer to take around a fast corder TL or 530? Snow or shine.

 

Good comparison but the GS300/400 doesnot compete with the TL they compete with the RL(in price and category not the TL) and are much better than that car. The ES is Lexus's comparable car.

 

AWD would satisfy me the most personally. FWD comes in pretty close. I grew up in snow, its MUCH more reassuring to know that the drive wheels are pulling rather than pushing. Go to any state that receives a decent snowfall, you'll see FWD luxury cars (Lexus ES300/330, Acura RL's, Cadillacs, Buicks)

The 4WD/AWD people tend to drive like idiots for the most part, they seem to think that 4 wheels makes them invincible to the laws of physics.

RWD... lol.. well, I've seen my share of BMW's and MB's with "electronic aids" stuck in 2 inches of snow.


While I realize this doesnt really matter to those who do not receive inclement weather, Acura should provide a compromise VTM-4 AWD

 

Living in a snowy area, I don't want RWD. I want FWD, as I've said many times before. AWD would be nice, and it would make the TL more of a a contender, but that's not where Honda's at right now except for its SUVs.

 

Honda 4 wheel drive systems are actually front drive biased with a system that shifts power to the rear wheels if the fronts are slipping - this is their system for the MDX, Pilot, CRV and upcoming pick-up, I believe

As for RWD handling, I traded my 2K2 TL-S for a G35 when I moved south. I can't imagine driving the G in Cleveland during lake effect season, but it sure is fun where it doesn't snow. I originally wanted a 330, but was unwilling to shell out 40 large.

My order would be G35, new TL 6 spd, 3 series

 

FYI - Audis are not natively rear wheel drive. They are native front drive and with quattro they become AWD. They still handle far more like a FWD car then a RWD car.

Besides all of that, the vast majority of people cannot safely "out-drive" a car like the TL so making it RWD would just mean more people wrecking more cars because they THINK they are good drivers.

Americans as a whole are woefully under-educated and under-skilled drivers and on top of that are terribly inattentive on the road. When was the last time you saw someone in a large SUV flying low and talking on their cell phone? Bet for most of us it is less then 24 hours ago.

Honestly I don't give a crap about the RWD TL - an AWD TL would be nice as it will offer the best real-world situation for anyone living in an area that gets any type of inclement weather. Given the strict choice between FWD and RWD I would take FWD on my daily driver because I have to actually be able to drive in the snow.

 

Vuhu, point well taken!:p

 

I hardly think of ES300 as competition to the TL. It's more like GS300 or IS300 vs TL even though the ES300 may be FWD, etc. The ES300 has everything to compete except performance.

 

Wow...it didn't realize i would stir such a hornet's nest of FWD lovers...personally like CH-TLS I traded in a 2001 CL-S for a G35 because the G's superior handling and the indefinable "fun to drive" factor...however I will readily admit that the G35 interior is no where close in term of beauty as the 04 TL...before the G35, I had been a lifelong Honda devotee, having owned accords, Preludes, Intergras, CLS...but now that I have driven a RWD and realized all the fun I've been missing, it is really hard to step back to a FWD despite the beautiful design of the 04 TL and all the electronic toys...of course I want to see Honda do well as much as anyone on this enthusiast board...and i realize everyone has different priorities and needs when buying a car....but personally, Honda is not providing that spine tingling "fun to drive" in its current version of the TL...and by the way i lived in Chicago and have yet to be stuck up the creek in the G35...knock on wood :-)...ok i'll compromise and would buy an AWD TL;-)

 

I still find it amusing how many people talk about RWD and sportiness and fun to drive and all of that yet drive a slush-box. If people were really into driving their cars they would be buying manual transmissions, I guess it comes down to people wanting to feel sporty vs. actually being what *I* consider a driver.

 

Hmm, always looking for a verbal fight. Just my opinion that I personally believe that front drivers are more desirable, and I would never own a RWD in our climate, but I see you are in a warm state where RWD would not be a problem.

 

U know me . I think the RWD argument is moot in the snow everytime I see a FWD car in an accident down here in broad daylight with no rain. 2 words

SNOW TIRES A lot of people that buy the ES 330/TL (hell cars in general) don't drive their cars fast at all nor care for performance. THey look at price and features. They are competition.

 

RWD better on the race track, FWD better in the snow. I drive snow more than race track, therefore prefer FWD, bottom line.

 

Living in snowy Chicago, I prefer FWD. AWD would be great, but RWD just sucks in snow. I know, I had a Lexus GS300. Skid control helped, but when you are in deep snow the car would just get stuck. I guess I could have gotten snow tires, but that is just a pain in the a##. Plus I am so use to the FWD understeer, I did not like the steering on the RWD. Traded it for a 99 TL. Will be getting a 04 TL next spring.

 

I have both rwd and fwd vehicles and for daily driving I prefer fwd for its superior straight ahead traction and better packaging efficiency.I dont find any noticeable difference in real world handling.Why would acura want to spend the additional development money for a rwd platform to satisfy the snobs who think that for real life driving its going to magically transform the driving experience and to satisfy car magazine writers.Acura will be able to sell every tl they can make.If you want rwd,buy something else.As for awd,unless you live in a rural area who needs it.Run a set of four blizzaks and you can drive anywear in town without a problem.I can see rwd being superior on a racetrack if the car is well balanced,but on the street?,give me a break!Kind of like these people who think a stick is the only way to go in every type of vehicle.

 

So we have MB, BMW, Audi, Jaguar, Cadilac, Lincoln, Lexus, Infinity all with RWD cars. And we have Acura that does not/cannot build them. Let's see who's going to be a looser. BTW RWD does transform driving experience.

 

"Acura had no difficulty selling upward of 60,000 TLs each year, which was second only to the BMW 3 Series in this price range until the Lexus ES 300 slipped past it last year. Still, the company knew that it was missing out on customers who really did want a bona fide sport sedan and/or a true luxury experience replete with top-grade materials and all the latest convenience and safety features." --Edmunds.com

Could it be that more and more consumers also prefer RWD handling?

 

What is happening is luxury car makers that DID NOT have RWD or not much of it (Lincoln, Infiniti, Chrysler, Cadillac) were not taken seriously as luxury cars let alone sports sedans. So slowly but surely they switched. And u know what. Since then
1. The Lincoln LS has gotten great reviews
2. The Caddy CTS has gotten great reviews and a 400hp version is coming. The next Seville and Deville is going RWD.
3. The G35 has gotten rave reviews.
4. The upcoming Chrysler C, Dodge Magnum is going RWD.
5. Instead of trying to make the FWD ES 300 sporty, they brought the RWD IS 300 which got great reviews.


Acura may actually NOT WANT to switch to RWD as they will have the FWD market to themselves basically. FWD=efficiency which is what Honda is about. 7 of the 10 most economical cars are Hondas.

When I went from the FWD ES to a RWD SC, I knew after a month that I was going to drive RWD cars the rest of my life.

 

One may wonder why someone like you even bothers with a site like this then. Not that I'm being critical, but isn't this forum about Acura TLs and not about the RWD cars that you'll only drive? No offense intended.

 

In 1sicklex's defense, he is a true auto enthusiast who often makes valid points and adds to the discussion.

I am beginning to think that Acura REALLY doesn't want to be RWD, either. Soon, they will have the FWD sport sedan market to themselves......and that's fine with me. There is also a silent majority who wants FWD--that's how the TL has managed to stay on top all these years. Only enthusiasts on sites like this moan about the lack of RWD, and don't reflect the real world. The cars that lex mentions don't sell as well as the TL has these last few years (yet--we'll see), so automakers may think the market wants RWD, but in reality the want a BMW if they want a RWD sports sedan.

 

I think the only reason that most people want RWD is because that is what the magazines want because they staff people with massive amounts of track driving experience. I would bet that for most people who pontificate about needing RWD, etc on the track they would turn is significantly lower times in the FWD car then the RWD car assuming conditions were the same or similar. The fact is that FWD cars are safer to drive for the majority of people because tuned understeer is ideal for peoples typical reaction when a car starts to slide. Conversely oversteer without computer aids is not easily corrrectable by a non-skilled driver. Most people cannot handle a RWD car when it goes beyond its limits of grip, only the modern computers save peoples asses in the BMWs, Lex, etc.

Fact is very few people in the US are decent drivers, and probably most of the people ranting about needing RWD would be SOL if they had to drive a RWD car without the computer aids.

****NOTE: Whoever said Audi makes RWD cars is 100% wrong. Audi does not have any RWD cars in their lineup. Any car that is not quattro is FWD from Audi and all of their cars are tuned to drive like a FWD car.

 

It would cost a ton for Honda to engineer a completely seperate platform for one midsized car. I prefer rwd, but fwd is o.k. given all I do i commute back and forth most of the time, really don't plan on using my car for track days. Additionally, if you are exploring the limits of fwd on public streets, you are probably breaking the law and endangering other people

 

I also costs 30% less to produce a front drive car! Really.

 

If you think Americans are underskilled, then go to Europe. Americans are among the best drivers in the world.

 

Here, here. Or Japan for that matter.

 

Heh you have to be kidding me. We have lower speed limits and higher per capita crash rates. Training required to get a license in the US consists of basically having a pulse. In Germany you have to have at least 40 hours of professional instruction before you can even consider a license.

Not to mention many of the EU countries have strict laws against using a cell phone without handfree, eating, drinking, etc in the car. It may seem like Europeans are unskilled for an American on their roads because we are way out of element (especially in countries that drive on the oppisite side of the road) but statistically we have some of the worst drivers in the world. Not to mention all you have to do is get on any major thoughofare in the US and you are GUARENTEED to see at least 5 SUVs doing 20+ over the speed limit while the driver talks on a cell phone, or some kid in a neon or focus with more stickers and wings then acutal car doing 40+ over the speed limit.

 

What's wrong with talking on the cell-phone and driving? Yesterday I raced 2004 Maxima and had my girl-friend on the phone while doing that. BTW the Maxima was able to keep up with me (540ia) until the road made a 60 degree turn. At that point I just stepped on the gas and lost him. There was no way FWD could do something like that. He would torque-steer himself into the wall.

 

Ummm.... You've obviously never lived in Europe. I lived in Germany during my teenage years (mid-80's) and can confirm chadr's statements. Formal driving education is required. Can't get driver's license until age 21 in some places.

In comparison, we Americans as a group are morons on the road. It's a miracle more people don't die on the road than do. We Americans don't have any formal requirements outside of age and minimal standars of physical fitness. I, myself, believe that SUV drivers should be required to have ADDITIONAL training befor they take their 2.5-3 ton machine off the showroom floor, and should get a different type of license precisely because of this lack of requirements.