trancemission

and they should all go in Problems and Fixes...

1sweetTL

Too bad you didn't get a real engine!

SebringSilver

What's up with so many people wishing the TL had turn signals on the external mirrors?? Go buy a Mercedes Benz if you want them that badly.

It's so "me too". I don't understand why Acura ever bothered to put them on the TSX in the first place. Yuck.

1sweetTL

Well Put!

Nothing is life is free.

Unless Mommy and Daddy bought it for you.
But one way or another you pay for it.

With that said... Think about all of the Standard equipment on this car and compare it to what you get in a comparable car in its class.

I would love Auto Headlights but it isn't gonna make the car perform any better?There are alot of features this car has that aren't standard on others.
ACURA didn't skimp on anything they made choices.
Whoever feels ACURA skimped on this car, and for this price it isn't enough....shit man you are in a world of hurt.

All I can say is....You better get your check book ready.
For the original poster of this thread...enjoy your car.
Don't worry about what may go wrong, enjoy what they did right.

gainful

I would rather not have this many tech shit to fool around, but prefer Acura spend more time to fine tune the car, design better interior pieces that don't rattle, work on the engine vibration and damp it out, run more test on their high-tech engine mount to make sure it works better than regular mounts....

Putting electronics on car is a shortcut to allure customer, maybe the 4th Gen TL will have an onboard coffe maker above the cupholders but it is the mechnical refinement that determines the soul of a car.

1sweetTL

I can respect that!

I am sorry that the TL is such a dissapointment to you.
But I have an 04 AM and I have yet to take it in for anything more than regular maintenance.
I am not an ACURA only enthusiast.
I also Drive a Chevy Suburban, people talk shit about Chevy too...
Still haven't had any issues there either.
(come to think of it i am one lucky Son of a Bitch!)

So if the TL is such a Piece of Crap, why even bother?

Why do you get bent when people tell you to sell the TL and move on...
You have made up your mind, you don't like the TL.
I respect your opinion, but i don't share it and neither do the majority of the members on this forum.

Sounds to me like you need to buy a Hot Rod, get an old Chevy Camaro, beef out the engine and you will have all the performance you need in that department.
Good Luck.

Brettg

Ok, what IS in the TL's class?
I for one never said anything about price, I said I would pay more for some luxury items, but dont want to have to get something like the RL to get them.

I have the 6MT without navi, what high tech features do I have?
The only thing I can think of is the stability control which I dont want.

I dont expect anything to go wrong with my car, and dont have a single problem or flaw so far.

Brett

trancemission

I have the exact same, but I didnt want Navi, I dont need anymore high tech features to be honest. for the money, hands down TL is the best.

great car great value.


trancemission

ttliang

you always "said it" like "your" TL represents all TLs. my engine is idle smooth. i got no vibration problems. mine don't rattles. i am sorry "YOU" got a bad one (or "YOU" are just more sensitive than others). we acknowledged that. whatever the case is, you need to move on already. I do want to hear problems on fellow TLs. i tried to help people all the time with their problems. i think forums like this will help me one day when i run into some TL trouble (knock knock).

it's just that you don't seem to want any helps. you don't seem to want to sell your car. it's like you've got this girlfriend who slept with everyone you know yet you want to stay together with her but keep complaining.

to me, at least, you want to continue to live in this "world of hurt" of yours and drag other people into it whenever you can in the name of "TL improvement/discussion". pretty sick stuff IMHO. it needs a doctor of some sort to fix it.

ajeetm

As to ajeetm, enjoy your TL as I am loving mines. Enjoy acurazine as you will find many auto enthuasist on here that can offer you friendly advice. But please do not be misguided by some individuals who only seek to interject derogatory remarks that don't play entirely true or significant. Enjoy your car, take care of it, and judge for yourself.

Congrats on the purchase. [/QUOTE]

Thanks architectonic, I totally agree with you. This was my first post to the group and I'm sort of regretting it because of all the bitching and moaning. But I do appreciate the enthusiasm from everyone, it just shows their passion about what they drive, one way or another.

BayshoreAcuraNY

the fourth gen should have an automatic tissue dispenser for all you dam cry babies!

Brettg

I am no fan of high tech gizmo's, I dont want navi, bluetooth, voice command stuff, esp, or even abs.
I DO like a nice audio system, and some convienience items are very nice, they make it easy to pay more attention to driving the car.
I wont say a key/remote is high tech, might as well make the key and the remote one piece, its likely cheaper to do that.

Yes, the TL is the best thing out there for the money, or even much more money than the TL costs, if you want a sharp looking car with 4 doors and a manual transmission. On my car at least, the quality is there also, not a single problem
so far.

Brett

Legend2TL

2nd Gen TL rear suspension is the same in concept as the 3rd gen. This being a trailing lower link, two lateral lower links, 2 upper lateral upper links. Not positive but no gen TL ever had a double wishbone rear suspension. The 1st gen TL had a similar suspension as 1st gen Legend (1 trailing link, two lower lateral links, and a upper wishbone).


I've taken some fairly fast exit turns with bad bumps in my 05 TL 6MT and never experienced any bad "rear-end swing on bump". In fact the 3 Gen TL rear suspension handles bump steer very well. IMO, I prefer the 5 link rear suspension newer Acura designs used in the RL/TL/TSX to the upper wishbone used on older gen Acura's.

Brettg

I have a bump/dip in the middle of a sharp turn close to my house, and I get to see how all the cars handle it at 45 to 50 mph, and I thought the TL does real well there.

Brett

trancemission

could not agree more with you here Brett. I also like that comment you made in the other thread about coming out with a sport version and a touring version. or something like that. Like with the second gen, having a type s model.

mickey3c

wow seems like everyone has a mutual admiration society going on here.. I have seen the finer and less finer aspects about acura products and services. I cannot say that the service is better than brand X or that the car is consistently made better than others, since it has had its problems from the get go. My 05 3G has been ok. My 2 2Gs had problems no other car I have ever owned had.

Many people do not want to have to fiddle with a 35,000 car to get it right. Often times this means going back and forth to the dealer or dealers and dicussing at length what is going on with the car. Most of us work and have families and do not want to buy a new car that requires all the fuss. We want to get in and drive away simple enough. And for some this is their first new luxury purchase and we expect better than average quality.

I also know that when new models come out even the dealers have to get used to the "new problems and fixes" that have to be identified and documented so they can consistently service the vehicle. With forums such as this, it allows for this process much better than 10 years back.

As for selling the car and getting out of the product. For some that is not much of an option since they went with minimum down and 5-6 years to pay. In many cases they are upside down on the value of the car. In some other cases where people are cash buyers, they do not want to take the hit on the trade, so they keep the car untill there is a really serious problem and then get out of the product. They look at it as a lesson learned and go elsewhere even if they understood that they were not that lucky since they got a bad car.

I have seen this in volvos and saabs over the years. And we have all seen it in the accord. People have sworn by them. So when someone here has a bad experience, it is valid. Just because a lot have a good one does not mean that the person slamming the product is not justified. Acura has a way to go to get a good product better as well as meet demands of the design changes to keep up in the marketplace.

gurneyeagle

mickey3C:

All very good and valid points, but I think what has been said about all the bitching and moaning is valid too. The good aspects of the car far outweigh the bad.

The purpose of the forum is to discuss problems we are having, and hopefully finding a solution to them. That being the case, the slant is always going to be towards the negative. It shouldn't be taken as an indictment of the car though.

I mentioned in another post that their seems to be an inordinant number of young (20-something) owners on this board. Maybe that contributes to the lack of patience with the problems experienced. A lot of guys make it sound like the world is coming to an end.

Granted, I agree 100% that a $35K+ car should have ZERO problems, and as a long time Honda owner I have had a number of their products that never saw the dealership again after my purchase. That certainly wasn't the case with my '01 CL Type-S.

But I do recognize that my CL was without a doubt the most sophisticated car I had ever owned. There is no excuse for the transmission problems experienced, but when you load a car up with a lot of high-tech features something is probably going to break over the course of 100K miles.

Acura is certainly not alone in this case. BMW's are famous for being maintenance hogs, and Mercedes is currently suffering some quality issues. Don't get me wrong, I love German cars and seriously considered a 330i, but I drive about 25K miles a year and feared the maintenance headaches several of my friends endure with their cars.

Is a 330i superior to a TL? Depends on the subject. As far as driving experience, performance, and general feel, I would say absolutely. As far as reliability and not being nickle and dimed to death, the TL is far and away the better car.

It comes down to what is important to the individual. Out of necessity, I need reliability. I think (and it's my opinion based on 30 years of car ownership) that Honda delivers the best quality for the buck. But that's my opinion. It's the old Chevy vs. Ford argument - there is always some guy who swears by his car.

You nail it on the head when you say Acura has a way to go to get a good product better. That's always the challenge. I just say relatively speaking, the TL is a great car.

Let's keep pointing out the shortcomings of the TL. Hopefully someone from Honda is listening.

gurney

mickey3c

hmm interesting how a problem that cannot be properly identified or fixed should go in problems and fixes... or people are cry babies lol .. The oil jet and past tranny issues are not cry baby issues nor is the driveline vibration and rattles. Acura is a business like any other and seeks to maximize the stock holder's equity not the customer's value. I have had two cars in my lifetime that had design flaws. A buick and a acura and its no fun to listen to people explain away why a design problem is going to cost you more money overall and lesson the resale value of your car.

Extended warranties are extending the price of the car as well and not making you feel confident of your purchase when they strongly suggest you get one since you will probably need it due to the complexities of the car and labor rates. That's when you say well so I need all these options that can break or if they are not too confident in the product should I ???

One thing for sure is that once a design is produced, any manufacturer tries to eliminate all the costs they can. That process usually creates some trial and error. That trial and error sometimes lessons the product longevity....

ttliang

I too had a 2nd gen TL-s with tranny problem. but we are talking 3rd gen here and so far, i think, trannies are holding up good in general. I figured we'd hear a lot more like we did back then w/ 2nd gen already given the car was first out in 2003.

driveline vibration i wouldn't call it "skimp". it's too "far and between". some of them bitching turned out to be some bracket adjustment. some still remain mysteries. when you see a TSB or recall and you know it's really a problem. i don't remember seeing that yet but i could be wrong.

now rattles we hear a lot more. some cry babies. some TSBs. some mysteries lol (u'll always have those mysteries ;-). i don't know if we should call it material "skimp" or craftsmanship or design flaw. but we heard many people many times here that their cars are rattle-free (my-04-self too). we have quite a few people here so i think it's a good growing sampling space. i think stay on this forum objectively long enough will give you a very good idea about 3rd gen over all.

mickey3c

well I got to agree that the 3g is better than the 2g nightmares... As for adjustments and all it seems that they are having more quality issues. A simple fix for a vibration like a bracket seems like the did not do their QA very well. 15K tranny fluid changes and what not... All that stuff adds up to more maintenance costs. I

Maybe acura owners are more cry babies since I do not see that on the lexus or infiniti web sites.. lol. Or the drivers of acura products are much younger and inexperienced than the other brands. Or, the older drivers of the more pricey products do not sweat the small stuff.

Once bitten twice shy...

gurneyeagle

"Or the drivers of acura products are much younger and inexperienced than the other brands. Or, the older drivers of the more pricey products do not sweat the small stuff."

Honestly, mickey3C, that's the point I have been trying to make, without wanting to offend anyone.

This board is naturally populated by enthiusiasts who expect nothing but perfection. Some of the younger owners may not realize that their expectations, though legitimate, may not be reasonable.

Honda's reputation was built on the quality of the Civics and Accords produced in the late 70's and early 80's. Their cars, just like other manufacturers', have gotten much more sophisticated over the years.

I'd love to see a side-byside comparison between a 1986 Legend (a truly ground-breaking car) and a 2006 Civic EX. Excluding size, I would bet the Civic matches the Legend feature-for-feature, but has superior performance.

Then compare that same 2006 Civic to the original 1973 model. It would be like comparing the Space Shuttle to the Wright's first plane.

It's a good thing to point out our car's problems. But it does seem their are some members who have complaints about everything. Those are the guys I wonder if they will ever be satisfied.

gurney

ttliang

i definitely agree with you on QC part but all car manufacturers have that issue "more or less". for example, i just test drove an 06 LS-430 the other day and it rattles like crazy around center console area. now that's one car we understand just to make a point. i don't even want to go to my BWM experiences.

I don't care how badly MB suffers quality issues in recent years but certain people will HAVE TO drive their cars (wink wink) for image reasons. and they WILL NOT bitch about it to some websites like this.....one can bet his ass on that.

charliebear

Where can I get the coffee maker option? It would make my morning routine more efficient!!

gainful

Coffee maker will have a menu displayed on Nav screen so driver can choose different flavors, and it will be a standard equippment as is usually for Acura, but MSRP of the car will go up to $36000, and this makes the 4th Gen TL the "best bang for the buck" car again.

gainful

Go to Acura website and Owners link, it will show you in "My car" section that 2nd Gen is "multi-link double wisbone" rear suspension.

Or, by intuition, you look at the rear wheel well, there is an upper wisbone, while the 3rd Gen doesn't have it.

Brettg

Will the 4g TL have the coffee maker linked to the gps so it can tell just how hot to make the coffee?

If you are driving south in the afternoon, the sun will be on the other side of the car and you might want hotter coffee...
I think the avalon has that feature...

Brett

Actuary

I think other cars have every other feature TL doesn't have. Are they gonna jack up the MSRP and accomodate every complaint in 4G TL?

Brettg

I would hope so.
With other brands, you dont HAVE to buy all the options.
I suppose I was lucky I did not HAVE to get the navi system.

Brett

Legend2TL

There is no upper or lower wishbone on a 2nd Gen TL. I've seen Acura list it as a wishbone but that is their markeing department's desciption, but it is really a 5-link rear suspension.

Here is a rear suspension parts list and diagram for a 2003 TL.

Rear TL Suspension

As shown here there are no wishbones only 5 links for the rear as I stated

trailing link is part 15/16
two lower lateral links is part 12 and 11
two upper lateral links is part 20 and 17

Technically speaking a wishbone suspension should have one piece "A" arms. The front suspension on the 3G TL is a true wishbone design. Both front control arms has two mounting points to the chassis, which hence make them a wishbone design. A single chassis mount is considered a control arm or link.

shodog

It's simple economics really. Designers only get so much material cost so a car can hit it's target cost. They cut costs big time by using a FWD platform from the accord which they make a zillion of. Since they didn't use additional money it would cost to make it RWD or AWD, they spent it on the interior goodies.

So if your the kind of person that is happier having a snazzy interior with Bluetooth instead of the driving experience found in a real sport sedan then you will love the TL.

Legend2TL

Better yet compare the parts list and diagram for a 2G Tl to the 3G TL. Note the same layout

2005 TL 3G

2003 TL 2G

twigglius

iTrader: (6)

No low washer fluid light... Have you ever run out ot washer fluid?

The radio goes off when you remove the key... Maybe because you are EXITING the car.

Can't open the doors unless you unlock them first... You can set the car to unlock when you put it in park.

No daytime running lights... That is the gayest option ever invented on a car.

No automatic headlights... You can program the lights to go off after :30, :60 or :90 seconds in the 06. not sure about 04 and 05.


No rain sensing wiper... Because it's so hard to flip a switch?

Trip computer sucks... Compared to?

No key/remote... Agreed!

Brettg

If you look at the key, and the remote, they are close to the same size.
You could almost glue the key to the remote, or just take the metal part of the key and stick it into the remote.
VW had the great switchblade remote/key setup that was the best!

There are a lot of little touches acura could do that cost VERY little and give a much nicer drive.
On the VW/audi cars, they seem to spend a lot of time thinking up nice things that make driving simple and easy, but they dont spend any time at all on making the cars reliable.

I think the RL likely has many of the missing options, but you have to loose all the sport of the TL to get them...

Brett

fire1

After about 4 mos. on the MY05, I'll vote for the fob integrated with the key.


Paint cosmetics leave a lot to be desired. The Anthracite has a lot of orange peel.

The only other gripe is with the outward visibility. The new body style has the window sillls up higher than before.

Would I buy it again? You bet. Great road car.

twigglius

iTrader: (6)

this would be a great mod if done properly.

DudeLuv

Just don't make them like the Lexus keys....total pieces of crap. They are key shaped and are held together by a tiny screw and break apart when you torque them in the ignition.....$200.00 to replace.
The Audi keys are neet....the flat key swings out switch blade style from the side with the press of a button with all the normal remote functions.