ndx2

i didn't mean a luxury car had ALL the features above. but they do have a lot of 'em, based on the type of the car and the purpose it aims to serve. 5/7 series, a6/8, ls430, e class are all luxury cars. they have quite a few of those features.

ndx2

wow... you convinced me.

so what happens if i debadge my car?

MattT516

Not for nothing, but I see a whole lot of middle-aged gentlemen driving the TL, maybe even more than the Maxima. I don't see the Maxima to be a car for a 58-year-old guy at all, more so for like a 25-year-old bachelor. The TL has more of that universal appeal than the Maxima does, in my opinion. I see 20-year-old kids that have TL's with rims and body kits, then I see 65-year-old retirees who don't have a plan to do anything other than drive the car for 5,000 miles per year and get the oil changed every, say, 14 months. If you're talking about the fact that you bought the TL for its ''young-looking'' styling, then I don't know if you bought the right car.

MR1

A little study of the history of automobile brands and and marketing might help you to understand. Acura is considered (near) luxury by the masses regardless how much you argue, do the research.

Honda = Nissan = Toyota
Acura = Infinity = Lexus

This was and is the intention of the people that make and market the cars.

magneto112

These are some of the most difficult things to answer. I remember reading a few threads just like this on other boards. I understnad where you are coming from ndx2. What is luxury and what does it mean today?? So many so called non luxo branded cars have luxury features today. Today the line is severely blurred. We have 16K cars that have Xenons as options, Panorama roofs in 15K cars, leather seating in 14K cars, Navi in 20K cars, 6 speed automatics in 19K cars, and the list goes on and on. To me what makes a luxo car a luxo car is the service now adays and the choices(customization), not just the features. The timeless design of a car, the quality, the exclusiveness of materials, and the exclusivity of the entire model. Now, I also break down the luxury class into two categories. We have the Ultra Luxury car (Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Maybach, Aston Martin, etc) which has been around for countless years, and you have the Luxury class(MB, BMW, Lexus, Audi, Jaguar, Cadillac, Acura and the like). This class is more or less not as exclusive as those other higher priced brands, but they also offer cars that can breach rediculously high level of prices and usually contain higher levels of technology than the Ultra Class. The Ultra Luxo class is more of a traditional luxury full of materials that you would find in your house and smooth comfortable rides. A regular luxo company draws you in with techno features too in some cases offset the exclusivity of UL cars.

But this is a very difficult thing to call. It all depends on you and what you view as luxury. But, what most consider as luxo cars, I also consider luxo cars, however each brand has there limits.

More to come later.

magneto112

oh by the way, yall are killin me. Its Infiniti, not Infinity. Some brand they are, most of us cant even spell the brand name correctly(Myslef included at first).

apwalsh

I'm not confused at all. You base the quality of an item according to the perception of other people. You are a sheep. Baaah.

I would really like to see the expensive Timex you referred to also, I am actually curious.

Billionaires don't wear Rolexes or watches. They either wear "Timepieces" or hire someone to stand next to them with an umbrella and a $50,000 "Timepiece" to tell them the time when they need it.

Where do the real luxury brands fall then? It seems that there is a ceiling on your thought process. You put BMW at the top, when we all know there are plenty of brands out there above that level. What is the official name for them?

I don't think that Nissan is a luxury brand by any means, but the TL and the Maxima are very similar in size, features, engine, etc for anyone who is able to see past the badge. I wouldn't buy a nearly identical car to the TL if it had a Ferrari badge on it and cost 50K more. Are you saying that you would?

apwalsh

Yes, I agree. I am near the store, but not quite there yet.

Acura is near luxury, but not quite there yet.

Regardless of how much anyone argues, yes correct.

boltjames

Congratulations. You're finally getting dangerously close to understanding the definition of the word "brand".

Marketers have one job: find an audience, find a product, market that product to that audience.

Yup, me and 200 million other people are indeed "sheep". We value the brands that we've been spoon-fed since we first entered the working world and could aspire to afford such things that differentiated us from the rest.

I could afford a BMW 5 or a MB E yet chose the TL because it was a great value and more fun to drive and wouldn't embarass me in the office parking lot. It's a luxury car, but a smart luxury car. That's who the TL is for. Could spend more for a better badge, but instead chooses better features at a lower price. Good decision for him.

The Maxima isn't for the 5 or E crowd. It's for the overachieving Camry crowd. It's not a luxury car. It's a high-end budget car. It's for the young executive who wishes he could afford the 5 or the E but can't come close. Instead of driving a luxury car near the bottom of the prestige pile, he chooses to drive a budget car at the top of the budget pile. Good decision for him.

From a pricing standpoint, the bottom of the luxury pile happens to touch the top of the budget pile. Doesn't make a difference. Two different customers. Two different axis points on a marketing manager's Excel spreadsheet. Acura's a luxury brand, Nissan's a budget brand. I drive up to work in a Nissan, I get laughed at for slumming. I drive up in an Acura I get respected for making a smart decision. Branding. Take a few courses.

BJ

1995hoo

......and those of us who are partial to Concorde get stuck on the slow planes with the riff-raff since the retirement

MR1

My bad, I knew that, thanks.

I have never cared for the brand but that's no excuse.

Anybody remember BMW 318's or that fugly MB Hatchback, real top noch luxury cars they were.

On Topic - The Maxima competes with the Accord and I wanted neither.

vishnus11

thats one screwed up interpretation of luxury. some of the "redundant" features you feel that a luxo car should have, are A. just that, redundant and B. features on cars that cost way more than the TL. Note: take a look at an 05 RL and you'll find many of those features and more.

Just because technology is commonplace, and found in many vehicles, it doesn't lower Acura's standing. Implementation of that technology, and seamless integration of it into a vehicle is what differentiate's your average car from a luxury vehicle. You talk of customization - guess what, people actually like being able to own a luxury vehicle from the get-go, instead of having to pay 10k in options before your 325i is even comparable to a TL.

Speaking of the 325i, I had th opportunity to drive one this weekend (325xi actually). Although the interior was great I wouldn't go as far as comparing it (aesthetically) to a 3rd gen TL's interior, which exudes much more luxury and class. Furthermore, it drove like a slug compared to the TL, but to be fair it did have AWD.

As far as features go. I'd rather have the real time XM traffic info on the 05 RL, than have vent covers or whatever ala phaeton. A luxury car doesn't have to have redundant features to make it stand out. I applaud Acura for actually having a luxo feature tthat actually serve's a practical purpose.

Lasltly, you talk about "high-tech" safety features. Not only will the 06 RL have the world's first collision migitation system, but the 05 also received 5 stars for every occupant position in NHTSA crash tests, the third car ever in the history of the tests to do so. Furthermore, both the TL and TSX have received outstanding crash test ratings, and have excellent passive safety systems.

BUT, i will agree with you as far as dealership and service goes. Acura needs to improve in this area.

EDIT: they don't make a 525i anymore (at least not in the US)

Steel

Go to Bmw's website, they still make a 525i. Thanks.


Per BMW:

Powered by a smooth, 3.0-liter, 215-hp engine, the 2006 525i delivers the kind of show-stopping performance you’ve come to expect of a 5 Series—and then some. With a spirited new design, roomier interior, and state-of-the-art handling and safety systems, the 525i offers more of what drivers have come to love about the 5 Series. At a supremely attractive price.

vishnus11

wow, your right. my bad on that one. definetely thought that they had dropped the 525i from their lineup. Actually from the looks of things, ithey techincally did "drop" the 525i as in they no longer use the 2.5 l 184hp (i think) inline 6. Dont think they had a 2004 525i or an 05. But for 06, looks like they've dropped in the new 3.0 inline 6 (the low output one) from the new 3 into the 5 series as well. Thats whats masquerading around (not really 2.5 liter displacement) as a 525i. Sorry bout that though.

apwalsh

Congratulations you are getting further from underdstanding my point. Your spoon fed comment says it all. You are going by what OTHER PEOPLE tell you. Not by what you want to do of your own accord.

I understand what you are saying since the beginning. What I am saying in simple words is that the only reason people care about badging is so that they can validate their existence through their possessions.

How does a TL or a BMW differentiate anyone from the rest? What rest are we talking about here? BMWs, Acuras, MBs are a dime a dozen. We're not talking about handmade cars here. It seemed earlier that you were trying to vault Acura into the upper echelon of the automotive world. Now you say that Acura is at the bottom of the luxury, and the Nissans are at the top of budget (realistically it should be called moderate - budget would be Hyndai and Kia, etc) but I get the meaning.

So doesn't that place the two right smack next to each other? Very comparable if you ask me, especially since the price points overlap depending on the options chosen. Sure they are officially two different classes according to what YOU have been spoon fed, but I don't eat that crap and never did. My mind makes it's own decisions based on my personal preferences and experiences, not by the crap that people like you are trying to force feed on the rest of us.

So go ahead, buy whatever you feel neccessary to prevent the sheep from laughing at you in the parking lot. I do my talking with my personality, perfomance and character, not the material possessions I own. Do you really think the people who pay the bills at the top of the ladder care about what the fuck I'm driving? No way, they care about how I can help them make them more money. Once they know my value, they wouldn't give a shit if I took them to lunch in a Fiesta.

It sounds like someone has a low self esteem.

Edit: I almost forgot, Acura is officially tagged as a near luxury brand, as someone stated above. Near as in almost. And we all know almost only counts in two things, and Acuras ain't one of them.

ndx2

i am well aware of the automobile brands. i wouldn't be talking if i didn't know much about the topic.

true, the acura was intended to be honda's lux brand. however, they have targeted the entry-lux level, rather than competing directly against brands such as bmw/mb/audi/lexus. while all/most of us here are acura fans and bought into the image of acura being a lux brand, that is not so for "the masses." acura lacks brand recognition, as well as quality, overall performance and such, albeit the value. this ranks acura below the forementioned brands, in terms of "luxury brand." any car connoisseur/enthusiast would tell you that acura is, well, rather recognized as, entry-lux. even acura knows this - which is why they target the customers they do.
i'm not saying acura is in the same level as pontiac. but you need to understand acura has not yet established itself as a luxury brand - acura falls short in overall quality, performance, vehicle line-up, and brand recognition.

ndx2

how else would you define luxury? luxury is something you don't necessarily need, but that provides comfort & pleasure. TL definitely has some luxuries, but not to the extent of being a luxury car. the new RL is a real nice car, and i'd call it a luxury car. but just because a brand has 1 luxury car in the line up doesn't mean it's a luxury brand. more and more cars nowadays are safer than ever before. a five star safety rating doesn't qualify a car as having the best safety features. plenty of fords, hyundais, kias, and even suzukis get 5 star crash ratings. yes, the TL has plenty of airbags & is safely designed - i wouldn't have bought one otherwise. BUT, it does not have more high tech safety features such as brake-drying/readying feature that will be available in bmws. nor does it have the presafe system of mb, where the seats automatically move themselves to upright/safe position, the side bolsters retract and actually reels in seat belts to brace passengers for impact, when the system senses a severe loss of vehicle control, or a possible roll-over. vw touareg's & phaeton's door locks automatically unlock in case of an accident to provide easier exit. i can go on, but i'm sure you get my point.

if you read my posts correctly, you'll see that i stated that the reason i like, and chose, acura is the way they elegantly, innovatively, and ideally put together the lux features. it's just ignorant to think that acura is a real lux brand, when it obviously falls short in many ways, when compared objectively.

my 325i and 525i comment was in regards to the badge comment. i'd have to be nuts to buy a base bmw/mb/audi.

you really need to understand that luxury brands are those that offer true prestiege, high-class image, exclusivity, etc. you can't possibly argue that people don't like to differentiate their cars with options and such. why do you think people spend money on aftermarkets (apperances, especially)? why do people spend $50 to tint their tail lights? to prevent a rock chip? i think not. people will pay for custom looks to set themselves apart if that's what they want. that's luxury.

ugh, i didn't know so many acura owners were so superficial... well, 3G TL owners... i bet if this were to be posted in the 2G TL section, most people would agree with me. imo, even saab (before GM takeover) was more of a luxury brand than acura. acura is merely an entry-lux brand for the time being.

magneto112

LOL....its all good. No biggie. Just wanted to point that out to everyone.

Yeah that 318 was brutal on the eyes.

Russdaddy

I looked at the Maxima for about 30 minutes. That interior was just not happening. The dash looked glued together and I kept getting the feeling that it could come apart at any given minute. The TL's styling is simply more bold if you ask me. I could easily see myself in it 6 years from now. The Maxima on the other hand would just make me put a for sale sign on it after that same time. I grew tired of looking at it on the lot and didn't even bother to test drive it. Still, it was better than that new Chrysler 300. But that's a whole other story.....

KJSmitty

Hold on everybody.........

Lets go to a commercial or something, I need to make more popcorn...

This thread is quite entertaining..........

"Reality Forum"

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Acura = Lexus

Thank you for the laugh. I needed that. Acura is far from competing with Lexus. A luxury brand is not just a brand that makes expensive fancy cars. Rather, it's a brand that makes highly desirable, reliable, often expensive, cars that are loaded with the latest technologies in the industry, backed with excellent customer service for years to come.

In that sense, Lexus has it down rock solid. Their cars are some of the most reliable cars with excellent performance, superb fit and finish, with the latest features available on the market. backed with perhaps the best service in the industry.

Hey, I drive an Acura, too, but I don't let it get to my head. My 2G TL has everything I need and then some. I'm 23 years old, and I don't need a Lexus to pamper my ass, and I certainly don't try to put my Acura on the same level as Lexus. I'm just realistic.

ndx2 has a good point, though. Some of you guys are a bit superficial. I spend most of my time AZ in the 2G TL section, and if there was a discussion such as this, it would have turned a different direction.

Bottom line is that Acura is a very good brand. Don't get me wrong; I don't long after a Lexus and consider my TL-S a piece of shit. I love my car and I wouldn't trade it for anything right now. But some of you need to realize that Acura isn't exactly a luxury brand like Audi/BMW/Lexus/etc.

P.S. Whoever said "it's the badge that makes it"... Are you telling me that an E46 325i is a better car than the TL? Even though it comes with cloth seats, no moonroof, no CD changer, etc? If you judge a car or a brand based on the badge and its status in the badge hierarchy, then you're a fake. You're the type of person who would pass on a value-packed car and go for the more expensive brand even though it offers less for the money, perhaps for even more money because you want the badge and the recognition from others. That's just fucking stupid.

Get your head out of your ass. Seriously.

Russdaddy

Well said!! :gheywave:

Xpditor

You still did not answer my original question. What specific features common to all luxury cars does not the TL have (except as a possible expensive option)?

I cross-shopped BMW and Mercedes-Benz and, in order to try and match the STANDARD features of a TL, I would have to pay a lot of extra money because they do NOT come standard on those "luxury" brands.

....to name a few.

You are entitled to your own opinion of course. But I find it difficult to tag a whole car line as "luxury" when most all of them make cheaper, 4/6 cylinder autos for under $30,000.

Not the exotics, of course. Several cars you have labeled as luxury, I would call exotics: Bentley, Rolls-Royce, Maserati, etc. They are a step above luxury in my estimation.

As for dealer service and attitude? You should visit the BMW and Mercedes owner's websites and listen to them scream about that very topic. Then, take a look at the Consumer Reports, JD Powers, etc ranking of owner satisfaction and quality. The BMW and Mercedes have both sunk very low. Admittedly, Acura has taken a hit as well- but not as much as the first two.

I don't mind if you call a TL a Honda because that is the parent company. But, in fairness, you must then call a Lexus LS430 a Toyota, an Infinii Q45 a Nissan and so on.....

On a brand-specific site like this, you will always hear more complaints than plaudits. That's human nature. When you're happy with your car and it performs flawlessly, there's not much reason to vent on a website.

If you were to tell me that you based your definition of "luxury" on the image of the brand, I could see your point. And maybe that's were you are going.

I just think that is a shallow criteria that seems quite prejudicial.

The way things are going, it is likely that Hyundai will soon be making a luxury model. With it's terrific reported quality and dealer attitude, what will you say? or ?

boltjames

Hey, I didn't say that this is what *I* believe......I said that the marketers that design the Acura brand believe this to be true as do the vast majority of their customers. Stay on point: the question is whether or not Acura is a luxury brand, not why *you* chose to buy it or why *I* chose to buy it.

From a marketing perspective, see a Mercedes Benz drive up, *any* Mercedes Benz, and there's a wealthy person at the wheel. That's perception, that's reality.

The particular motivation for you buying it vs. me vs. Mr and Mrs USA are completely different things. 23 year old kids with daddy's money looking at the TL as a pre-modded Accord aren't the demographic for this car; it's designed for a 40 year old luxury car buyer that is a bit more realistic about money and looking for a better value while not sacrificing a badge and stepping down in class of vehicle.

Maxima is a top-of-the-line budget class car.

TL is a middle-of-the-line luxury class car.

BJ

boltjames

Stay on point Mr. Walsh:

This is not and never has been about *my* reason for buying a TL.

This debate is whether or not Mr and Mrs America think Acura is a luxury brand. Guess what......they do.

Truth be told, if I'm so shallow and full of low self esteem, I'd have listened to my friends and bought a BMW or a Mercedes. I can afford those. Chose not to. I'm on your side of the argument when it comes to personal preference. Again, that's not what this particular thread is about......it's about whether Acura is perceived as a luxury brand, not an assault on egotism.

BJ

Xpditor

Oh, year. On topic:

I have owned a succesion of Maximas since 1986- nearly 20 years. So, of course, I shopped Maxima. The reasons I didn't choose it:

I have rented new 2005 Maximas and driven them for weeks at a time. I found the interiors plasticky, loose fitting, and generally cheesy. I didn't like the instrument panel which is shared with many of the other, lesser Nissan models. I didn't like the dated Pontiac orange lighting of the dash. The plate at the bottom of the auto shifter was cheap plastic and moved every time you shifted.

It had tremendous torque steer.

The biggest thing? The fugly grille. I just couldn't get beyond that. Otherwise passable styling is marred by that big chrome piece with a Nissan emblem in the middle of the grille, blocking air flow. A lot of people must agree because most dealers offer an aftermarket grille and even install it on a percentage of their stock units.

OTOH: I love that engine! The torque is amazing. It has terrific low-end punch but is rather ragged and loud in execution. And then, of course, you have to hang on with both hands because of the aforementioned torque steer.

Lastly, I was at a point in my life where I wanted to move up a class from the Nissan/Toyota/Honda group. Fine autos all, but I wanted to step up.

F23A4

^^^^ What he said!!

F23A4

X, as ugly as the grill may be, a billet aftermarket one goes a long (and simple) way of curing that. The rear end and interior materials are what turn me off the most.

But the orange instrumentation is now a staple in most Nissans and Infinitis. (I still say they should have gone the EL-route like the I35.)


Fair enough.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Ok, then. Go out there and ask people randomnly what brands they think are more luxurious and superior, among BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti and Acura.

I bet Acura will finish dead last. Acura is not as luxury branded as those other companies.

Xpditor

Observation: most of the folks that don't consider the 3G TL to be a luxury car don't own one.

I think we are all aware that Consumer Reports, in rating the 2004 autos said that the Acura TL had surpassed the BMW 3 series as their standard of excellence in the entry-level luxury or "up scale" sedans. The BMW held that spot at CR for about seven years, if I remember correctly.

2002 Maxima SE

1)This is not a published list, just your opinion.
2)You spelled Infiniti wrong.

2002 Maxima SE

Exactly. Have you heard about BMW and MB building mini-vans? There was a picture of the MB mini-van in MotorTrend this month. Does that mean they are an exclusive "high end" mini-van or are they slumming?

F23A4

...I've noticed that about half the people on this board that post the name 'Infiniti' ending in 'Y' seem to be folks who dont like the brand (for one reason or another). As the majority of us are car enthusiasts familiar with the various brands (and how they're spelled), that might be the case here.

Xpditor

I never met either an Infiniti or Infinity that I didn't like. Well.... it did take a while for the FX series to grow on me...

It's a matter of degrees of likability.

apwalsh

I do own a 3rd Gen, and while I think it's a great car I would not go so far as to call it Luxury.

@cUr@-TL

The cars you listed (LS430, Q45) I think (feel free to correct me if i'm wrong) do not share as many components with their respective "little brother" as the TL does with the Accord. (at least the 2nd gen..), and Lexus and Infiniti are not as associated with Toyota and Nissan as Acura is for Honda and there must be a reason... And i think it stated it in my other post. (quality, service, etc).

Also, I was aware that BMW and Mercedes-Benz' service has quite sunk lately, but i guess it depends on the area 'cuz around here the service seems to be good.

Also, IMO, exotics are like luxury cars, but will a little extra touch (that's my definition...)

I know I am not the only one who thinks Acura is not a luxury brand. I guess it all depends on one's criterias... and it's all good. Life would be boring if we all thought the same way

EpiK

Just a few comments to toss around here...

Well, I dunno if most CEOs would appreciate being driven to lunch in a Fiesta. I'm betting they would rather drive you in their $100K car instead.

THAT WAS IT! I couldn't quite figure out what bothered me about the Maxima. Earlier in this thread I described it as "Hollow", but I think you nailed it here. I felt like the interior was just "glued on" and might fall off if you banged it wrong...

-------------------

And now into the fray!

"Luxury" means something different to each one of us. Agreeing here isn't likely to happen anytime soon.

Some of you define "Luxury" as owning a car with tons of toys and features. In that sense, then yes our TLs are absolutely luxury cars. But so could be a Chevy or Ford if you added in enough options.

Others define "Luxury" by the badge on the hood. That seems to be the most popular opinion, but that doesn't take into account that each of these "Luxury" brands make cars in various price ranges. Does that mean that the 318i is a more luxurious car than the Acura RL or a top of the line Caddy? Not many people would agree with that.

Finally there are people who claim luxury is based on price. The more you pay, the more luxurious your vehicle. But in that scenario, you could theoretically claim a fully loaded top of the line Hyundai is more luxurious than a new base 325i because it costs more. And I am sure there are some Hyundai owners out there that will defend that thought process to the end.

So that leads me into pretty much how I determine luxury, which is a cross between three factors, not just one. Do I consider my TL more of a Luxury car than a 325i. Absolutely. The price points are similar, both cars have a reputation for higher end quality, but the TL gives me more bang for the buck. Do I consider my TL more of a Luxury car than a 535i? No. And using that same logic, I would classify the Chrysler 300 as more of a luxury car than the c230 coupe from Mercedes. Or a Saab 95 over a Lexus IS300. Both are luxury, but the 95 is a better car. (The IS300 wins over the 93 though...)

Again, IMO basing "Luxury" cars on badges alone, or price alone, or reputation alone is missing the point. It's a combination of all three. And for most, the TL rides that thin line of what the majority of people consider a luxury car. Some feel it falls on the luxury side, others feel it falls just short.

To me, I'm of the opinion it falls on the Luxury side, if just barely. Are there better luxury cars? Of course. But that's neither here nor there, because irregardless, I love my car either way.

MR1

Interesting how you folks can take things out of context and run, run, run.

The quote from me was Acura = Lexus = Infiniti

The reference was tied initially to a suggestion that someone look at the history of the brands from their inception.

Most of you attackers have little or no knowledge of the history of the brands. I suggested that you do a little research. Since you already know everything needed to defend your positions it was easier to just name call.

This is brief but to the point. Honda is one of the youngest and smallest Japanese manufacturers of cars. They have also been one of the most innovative.

Acura was the first upscale Japanese brand launched. The purpose was to compete in the more upscale American market where cheap Japanese cars had been absent. It was a bold move similar to what VW attempted and failed at last year. Honda (Acura) dived in first and had great success.

A few years later Datsun and Toyota also wanted some of the market that Acura had identified. Both companies had and have resources far superior to those of Honda. I think all three brands marketed a less expensive and a more expensive model. Infiniti struggled with poor sales of their ugly cars until just recently. Datsun/Nissan had severe financial problems and almost went under. Toyota/Lexus one upped Acura with V8 engine and an even more upscale near luxury car. Lexus also produced some ugly doggy Camary copies.

Honda/Acura continues along their own road and competes in their own little niche. Acura also has had some mis-steps along with their success.

Bottom Line - Who cares? Think and buy what you want for whatever reason.

You, if it fits you are whom I'm addressing, might want to gather accurate information before launching personal attacks aganist people that have diferent thoughts than yours.

And, I still didn't buy a Maxima because I think the TL is the better car for me.

PeteTLS

It's better than Tivo...when I need to actually do some work I can just stop scrolling and then come back and take up where I left off...it's great!!! It's not like it's an argument that one poster or another could actually win, but it's fun to read the opinions....I wonder if the other brands mentioned here, BMW, MB, Infiniti (with an 'i'), Lexus have this much entertainment on their forums....I suspect BMW's are too busy trying to teach other how to use I-Drive (or is that Y-Drive?), MB is probably still trying to formulate a plan to do away with the C-Class and the posers who buy them, Kompressers (with a K) et al, and the others probably have troubles of their own. Meanwhile I'm being entertained by a cross section of society who has agreed on the relative merits of their chosen cars (as evidenced by their purchase decision), but not on the placement of 'their' brand in the sea of others....

Please...keep 'em coming!!!

chill_dog

Silly me, I thought this was actually a thread about Maxima's...should've realized it was just another "Why the TL is/isn't a luxury car", "Better/worse than an Infinity, Lexus, BMW, etc." thread.

Before I bid this one a fond farewell, I'll answer the original question...I didn't even consider the Maxima because it's styling is atrocious. The current design sucks (IMO), as did the previous one (the one with the oval tails). The last decent looking Maxima was the body style with the taillight section that went across the entire rear of the car (like the Q45 at the time).

Before I even look at a car's stats, I look at it's exterior and then interior design...if it's not to my liking, I don't care how wonderful the engine/transmission/suspension/reliability is. If I have to look at it everyday, it's going to be something I like to look at. Now, why did I then choose the TL over the G35 coupe and IS300? Simple...more HP, bigger car, more goodies for the $.