jsong83

you know that installing an intake will void the warrenty.
you change stock intake to aem.
your bushings break after 1500 miles.

whats the problem? i want to install an intake on my tl also but i know that it will void my warrenty on future repairs if the problem is correlated to the intake. thats why i didnt install it and dont plan to. you knew installing the intake would result in consequences and you did it anyways and now youre bitching. jesus, youre like those people that bitch about a speeding ticket but wont ever stop speeding.

my only suggestion would be to uninstall the aem and reinstall the oem and then take it to another dealership. then when they fix it under warrenty, reinstall your aem. its a pain in the ass to do but you should have expected this eventually down the line when you first installed the aem intake.

ankur914

Send them to hell! They were/are always shady....They saw your mods and were looking for money. Good thing you didnt become their sucker. Anyways, Good Luck Dude!

ankur914

Intakes dont void the ENTIRE vehicle warranty. He is justified in his "bitching" beacuase he is the one recieving the injustice here. AND most certainly, Acura engineers did not design bushings for only 258 HP.....there's ALWAYS a factor of safety involved (usually 1.5 to 2)! IF and ONLY IF the intake causes the problem in the vehicle ( and the burden of proof lies on Acura), ONLY THEN can they void your warranty. Theres a law in place for this. There are people on the boards with superchargers and they have absolutely no problems with bushings....come on man, McGrath was trying to pull a fast on the OP and I think most of us are glad he wasnt a sucker for their ploy.

6spMike

How can suspension bushings cause a noise on startup? The car isn't moving.
Rubber bushings always have play, for a less harsh ride.
I think the first dealer had a tech that truly thought they shouldn't have play, and the rest just believed him, or they saw you coming.
My guess?
The thud is the AC clutch, and there is nothing wrong with the bushings.
All the BS sucks for you, though . What a PITA.
It might still be good to get in touch with Acura Corporate or the BBB or both. I wonder how many other folks have had unnecessary work done there?

Mike

jsong83

i understand that but theres no point in bitching about it when he SHOULDA KNOWN the dealer would try to pull this BS anyways. at 31 yrs old, i woulda assumed that he would have ran into this problem with his other cars and their warrenties. not trying to be too insulting but all dealerships are known for doing this and it shouldnt come at a surprise to him.

i definitely agree with the OP and that the dealership should replace the bushings just because of the fact that it is a brand new car still but to be mad about something that he shoulda expected when installing the intake is out of line. but those dealer reps are assholes. get the most of out them because theyre heartless. im rooting for you

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

I can understand if they're speaking of motor mounts/engine mounts... those can technically go bad over time and cause rougher starts... but control arm bushings???

Naw dude... stop going to McGrath -- i recommended Continental Acura b/c they used to be a Comptech house.. they used to (early to late nineties and early 2000's ) keep comptech modded cars (that they sold NEW) on the lot... they are sympathetic to my mods (AEM CAI, rear sway bar .. aspec suspension) and don't give me crap about it.

tidus888

talking about bushings!! lol

if the "service tech" reads the press release.. he/she will find that the NEW BUSHING is not for higher power.. but rather.. designed to kill road noise!!!

LOL

chfields

Too funny...It's a rubber bushing and he says it moves a little when you pry on it?? That is why the bushing is there, to flex and smooth the ride...I would definitely report him to Acura corporate and stay far away from that dealer..er Stealer.....

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

Here we go...

You're not a newbie here dude. 300+ posts and we have been talking about what can/can't be voided on warranty on so many threads. You should know how an intake can void what part of you warranty. Reread my 1st post...
If a dealer was fckin with you, you'd bitch too. Consider yourself lucky.

Yeah, and your point is? Me and about 25% of this board have an intake. The point of this whole thread is; has anyone had this problem in North America?....Answer is no. I find it a totally unexpected turn of events.

Are you really reading the posts??? Bushings most probably AREN'T broken!

Good for you!
What I want to do to my car is my buisness. If you wanna keep your car stock like 90% of the TLs on the road that's your choice. Most of us on this board are enthusiasts though and that means we like to mod our cars. Sorry!! I think supercharging can void a large part of your warranty and is risky. It's better done if your car has done 50k but an intake is small time stuff.

Thanks for contributing to this thread, we've learned so much from you.

Yes genius I already did that. I wasn't going to go to the other dealers and let them have a chance to take cheap shots too.

Shoulda known? Hey I agree you gotta have your guard up and never trust the dealer. I'm no sucker believe me. But think dude think....AEM intake---->control arm bushings....huh? Yeah. At 31 I know enough to get by. Have a few degrees to back that up. Thanks, don't need any lessons from someone 8 yrs. younger than me. My grammar alone speaks for itself. (hint--check your spelling sometime)I have owned a number of vehicles, namely luxury plates. Cadillac, numerous Mercedes, BMW, a Maxima. Dealers treated me like a King. I didn't expect this at Acura.

OK man, it's all good and if you weren't rooting for me I would have picked on you some more.

My thoughts exactly. Any play that was there I think was totally normal and in spec. If he was trying to pull that on me because he saw me coming, that's too bad. I'm smarter than I look.

I don't think the thud is the AC clutch. The thud happens with the climate control off. Besides had it been the AC clutch, the clutch won't engage so suddenly at the millisecond the engine turns on. Only later. I'm saying this thud comes AT startup. I think it is more related to the starter/engine mount. At any rate the thud is now mysteriously gone. Guess something had to wear or lubricate itself in. Also the tech never correlated the thud (my original complaint) to his findings (broken bushings) They are different issues.

I am stuck getting to the rest of my mods till I resolve this. AHH frustrating. AHHH (does that sound like bitching?? TOO BAD!!)

Thanks for the support Ankur

Hope someone laughed at this post at least...

kataklyzm

flex the bushings and see if theres any cracking. if theres none, theyre good. if you put a big ass pry bar on them of course theyre gonna move, hell theyre gonna move a little bit even if you grab it and twist with your hand. if you wanna get back at them, get an estimate that says theyre bad, check with the BAR (they have certain specs and procedures on when you can and cant recommend work), if thhey didnt do procedure, report them =P

TCM 01 CL-S

Good thing you found out that dealership 1 was a POS early on before they got any of your money!

I hate when places try to pull crap like that, never had any problems with an Acura dealership, but then again when I got my car it was a month out of warranty.

Tires Plus (Tires Minus in my book) on the other hand (the two I've been to) have always tried to pull crap on my cousin's car, my half bro's car, and my dad's car for no reason at all (all stock except a sound system). They never tried any B.S when I took in my car b/c usually the person taking care of my car wanted to know about all my mods and etc, but when I have taken other family member's cars there, I got all kinds of b.s relating to parts that are supposely faulty and required $1000+ in repairs and replacement when all the cars went in for was a damn oil change or tire patch!. Luckily I met my friend who is a manager at another tire place and he has his mechanics check it out and the parts T.P said were fault were 100% fine.

avs007

I wonder what the dealer would say if:

1.) You took your car to the track, and leisurely got a timeslip that showed your car was SLOWER than another bone-stock TL. Tell dealer that there are SO MANY variables that effect the performance of your car, that just an intake doesn't mean anything. If you were "slower" than another stock TL, than you couldn't have been putting more stresses on the bushings than the stock TL.

2.) Explain that the TL is designed to carry 5 passengers. The stress variances from loading the car with 0 passengers to 4 passengers, puts more stress on the suspension components than an air intake. If a 90 pound woman guns the car to redline, it will be putting more stress on the bushings, than the same car with a 200 pound driver, 100 pound passenger, and 50 pounds of misc stuff in the trunk.

3.) Take them to this page and this page. Point out that the 2006 TL and 2007 TL Type-S have the same part number for the bushings, despite having nearly 30hp difference. Then ask them why they made up the excuse that the Type-S had a redesigned bushing to handle the power.

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

That's a GREAT point... and totally contradicts what Dealer 1 was alledging.

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

HA!! WHoa, thanks for the research man! I didn't realize that the part is the SAME. So that dealer's lie count has gone from 95% to 99% total BS.

Perplexing. I wonder what was their motive to lie so much? Why was I such a target for a few mods that I'm sure many of us have done. Did they really think I was going to drop $1k to repair my brand new car? How many other people get conned everyday. Sometimes I wish I had acurazine.com right with me to win an arguement and shut someone up. It definitely keeps you from being ignorant and knowing your stuff. I usually feel like I know these TLs better than the dumb dealers themsleves.

darksom1

Yeah Rocky! We belong to a good forum man! Plenty of knowledge to arm yourself with when you go back to talk to those clowns! Good luck man!

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Think about what was told to you...they are going to go to the BB hearing with how many people? Come on man....you know how much money that will cost them in comparison to having ACURA corporate cover the bushings under warrantee? They are just playing a game with you....take it to the regional manager for your area.

Do you have a bit of an issue....yes....is it resolvable....I think so. You just need to play your cards right.

dzp1

My TL will need some warranty work soon (many small things, like rattles). Will you reveal the name of dealer #2 and #3 and then pick your favorite based on your experience (sounds like they were similar). I'm not sure why posters try to hide the identity of dealers on forums - perhaps fearing retribution. Knowing the scumbag/shady dealers and good dealers (in terms of service dept. in this case) helps fellow owners make decisions on where to take their car. You can PM me if you'd prefer.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

They do it because they get away with it more than not. Acura dealers as a whole for the most part tend to frown on modifications, so to some degree you either have to prove yourself a major pain in the ass from the get go or arm yourself with good information before or during. Now is it just my dealer...or do all Acura dealers have free wireless access in the waiting area that pretty much extends out to most of the dealership range wise. Personally...I sit in the waiting room and browse AZ while I am waiting...lol. The more informed you are and the better relationship you have with your service advisor is a definate PLUS. I have a fortunate situation in that Joe Demaree, the guy/shop who did all of the work on my car used to be the service manager of the Acura dealer I go to, so he is fairly well respected AND a good friend from the old days of my service advisor...so I kinda lucked out on that one. BUT....he is still a certified Acura Master Mechanic or whatever the designation is as well and is WELL known in the Honda/Acura world. Now that being said...they dont tend to screw with me a whole lot....because the more you read and pickup here on AZ...you can almost become MORE informed than they are in many regards....or at least damn near AS informed.

Bottom line....you do have an issue in that it seems as if they are giving you the normal runaround, for whatever reason. I might suggest contacting the regional manager for your area and complaing. Dont go back and mess with the local dealer with the info you got above...contact the regional office and tell THEM the information and mention bad faith suits and the like in the same conversation. The minor cost of this repair would be a pitance of what they would be looking at over a bad faith claim in court. I mean...the mods you did do NOT add 30HP and they are using the same bushings on the TL-S. It demonstrates a certain aptitude level to a great degree when you tell them what they did not know or what they did not think you knew....and they will start dealing with you differently. Dont get overly upset or emotional when dealing with them and ALWAYS keep your wits about you and be firm in your pursuit and always speak intelligently. With the negotiation....this will go away for you and your local dealer will be less apt to mess with you.

Basically...what I am guessing is....you removed and changed out some stuff...that in the opinion of whoever at the dealer...is just plain stupid and dumb...so now they are treating you with disregard. Show them you are not so dumb. Its fairly easy. An educated man/woman can move mountains man....just use your noggin!

yoolykeme

Interesting. I take my TL to McGrath for service, and they are really good with me. I have an AEM, also. In fact, I used to take my highly-modified pink Integra there, too, when I had it.

I bought my car from Autobarn, but it originally came from McGrath. Maybe that has something to do with it. I also get along pretty well with my service advisor.

ankur914

Just be careful.... but most of the techs there are clowns as well as the sales reps (i.e. Alex Shu of McGrath Acura in Morton Grove).

yoolykeme

I hear ya.

the last time, I took a loaner MDX and brought it back with no gas., lol

I fee you, though. As a whole, some guys there dont seem like the sharpest in the bunch.

ankur914

Hahaha..yea. If you can, I know some dealers allow this, watch them as they service your car. (my only beef with Mcgrath is their sales rep insinuated that I was a liar, but I got him back! And, the parts dept did not know what Nighthawk black Pearl paint is...They ask me "uhhh is that the gray or black?" and me trying to get the specifc and correct paint, I was like, "Its Nighthawk BLACK Pearl-2006 Model Year TL" That color code confused the hell out of them, they had to show me samples...Like i said, clowns! LOL - but in their defense, i should've probably presented the color code.....oh well.). Just be cautious dude. You may have no problems for the simple fact that the car originated from McGrath.

OntarioTL

My opinion is that just like any other business they have target sales or margins. Since most dealerships rely on service instead of sales (low profit due to competition on new cars....but excluding used car sales) to meet profit margins. You just walked in at the wrong time. They found a situation that they could possibly get away with making a profit in their own favor for needless repair work.
I mean think about it, I'm sure the service advisor and/or service manager probably have some kind of bonus incentive in their pay for meeting their sales targets. Probably warantee work is excluded from their bonus (just hearsay on my part)
Like Midas or Goodyear repair shops (or any shop for that matter), you see too many local tv station undercover investigations regarding this practice....why would some big dealership service bays be exempt from this?
It's all about the bottom line, nothing personal....but just business....as dirty as it may be. Some are better liars than others.

Of course I could be and probably mistaken....but regardless just my

avs007

Reminds me of the dealer over here when I was trying to buy touch-up paint. I asked for Redondo Red Pearl. They told me the TL doesn't come in Redondo Red Pearl. So I got them the paint code off the door. They said, the paint is actually called Ruby Red Pearl. (Or Ruby Red Quartz, I forget which) I was like whatever....

I drive over to pick up the paint, and the bottle says "Redondo Red Pearl" on it

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

Because this is a popular open forum and I know for a fact people who work in the dealerships read these threads. The service advisor involved could be reading this. I don't want to be IDd right now as I may have something up my sleeve. Like I said this is not over and I can disclose everything once it blows over. I have shown that Morton Grove is dealer #1 so you know who to stay away from.

fish008

He is correct they have to call another dealer to get information BUT, atleast in my experience, they will not give that information to the other dealer. Before I brought my TL, which was in florida, I live in michigan, I wanted the maintaince records but they would only release those to the owner of the car. I called my dealership and they couldnt ever get the records. Besides, they are not going to go out of their way to call every dealership within 50 miles to undermind what you're saying. Do what everyone else says to do, put the stock intake back on and go to another dealership. THEN let us all know how it played out.

weedeater

Money.

Maybe being a bit older, my first reaction would have been to open my cell and call Acura Corporate right then and there. Then I would have been taking pictures of the advisor and the tech pointing out the damage. Then get all the names, indicating that they would be prominent in the upcoming lawsuit.

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

Well of course it's about money but how can you be so blantantly full of crap and expect to never be exposed? I guess they tried this on someone and pushed their luck to see if they could do it again. I have to talk to this manager to see if they give a damn about their reputation.

When I was at the dealer I was confused to as how, when, where this could happen. It was all a bit shocking and overwhelming. I was caught off guard and not thinking optimally. Later I then became a bit pissed off and had to cool down. (As you can tell by post #1) I am not the type to jump to conclusions or be accusatory until I have my facts straight. I didn't want to call him a liar yet I wasn't going to sign a work order and hand over a credit card. Being armed with knowledge always gives you leverage. I wanted to carefully research and analyze before I made any moves or decisions. Confirmation was needed in what I was thinking, and now I have it. I needed proof.

Anyone questioning my aptitude at this age should understand why I handled the situation as I did. I am smarter at 31 than I was at 21. Years ago I would have started an arguement on the spot, emotions would take over. If it comes down to an showdown now, I make sure I win. That's why I didn't start one when I was at Dealer #1. Calculating, smart.

In retrospect everything is 20:20. Had I known for sure immediately they were hoaxing me, trust me, I am the type to have had my camera shooting away and maybe even Channel 7 Eyewitness News there.

Thanks MB. I do have a gameplan. What I know now is my ammo. Now that I am thinking straight I can control my train of thought and get to the bottom of this.

I haven't had time to pursue the issue just yet; have had plenty to be busy with in life, but I will pay a visit soon. TBC!

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

UPDATE 2!!
ISSUE RESOLVED

And here we come to the end of the story.

Finally made an appointment with the service manager and went to Morton Grove (Dealer #1) yesterday. Armed with service invoices from all 3 dealers and a camera. I didn't give him details of why I was coming on the phone but by the time I got there he too was prepared and knew who I was. (mind you this all happened 6 months and 10k miles ago....or maybe he read these threads?!?). He was both friendly and professional in person and on the phone. I told him what the story and what the other dealers said. The original service advisor doesn't work there anymore but the same technician who looked at the car is on duty. He took the car in to take a look. He calls me in under the car.

#1: He said that he agrees in fact that the control arm bushings are just fine and that is was a misdiagnosis. He pointed to some minor cracking (They are hairline and the rubber has not cracked through. as if they had been folded) at the bushing as to why the technician came up with the diagnosis. They looked at 3 other TLs in the shop that seemed to have this EXACT same appearance in the bushing. Some better and some worse than mine but they realized that this was all normal and within spec. (It's hard for me to believe that with the 100s of TLs that roll through they don't know what a normal bushing looks like.) Even a brand new one they had with less than 20 miles had a minor crack there. The tech says that he never deemed my car unsafe to drive and that the bushings were totally broken and cracked. I told yeah maybe the car was drivable but he DEFINITELY advised REPLACEMENT of the bushings. Had I not known better and was the average "fill it forget it" commuter customer (read: someone who doesn't frequent acurazine.com) I told them I could have lost $1000 in repairs for nothing. They admitted this was a mistake and that it was a good thing I knew better and got 2nd and 3rd opinions.

#2: I told them how the advisor was coming down hard on me about the mods. They were very careful to not directly blame the advisor that doesn't work there anymore. (They may get in trouble for that) But they still did try to subtly pin it on him nevertheless. He told me that the reason they blamed the intake is because they had no other cause but ALSO admitted that it is a hard argument to prove as it is pretty indirect and the burden of proof lies on them. I showed how it was put on my record quite blatantly that I have resonator and intake mods expressly to make extra power the car can't handle etc etc. and the manager said that was not right to do. They suggested maybe the advisor was inexperienced and there may have been miscommunication or maybe he didn't understand warranty policies etc. (BS if you ask me, but whatever) They are tolerant of such reasonable mods and and agreed there has to be some direct cause-effect relationship or at least some reasonable indirect relationship.

I told them I felt like I was getting spanked for my mods and that it totally looked like they were trying to pull one on me. They insisted as sincerely as possible over and over again that they just wouldn't do that. (totally against their principles, reputation yada yada) They were admitting their mistakes and being apologetic and so what could I do? Take them to court? How many ways can you say "sorry"?

I told them look; I had to take out my intake. I had to go to 2 other dealers (all that extra driving and wasting of people's time) and 2 trips to this dealer etc. etc. and that is why I was so frustrated. On top of all this all these mistakes. They said they wanted to keep me as a customer and prove and earn their trust back. They offered me some service credits as some kind of compensation to make me happy. Well it's better than nothing and I think we all learned a lesson. I can sleep better now knowing my bushings are fine and my intake is finally going back on tomorrow.

CASE CLOSED

ankur914

Congrats dude! Good to hear that they took care of it!!!

dcrandon

You're kidding me? You acutally think that the lousy 5-10 hp from the intake broke the control arm bushings? Geez, how much force do you think is put on these bushings when going through a pothole? Now, how much from an increase in 2-3% hp?

I really think that Acura has designed the bushings well enough to not fail from 5 extra hp.

dcrandon

This is sort of out there, but....

Suppose they thought at first that there was a problem with the bushings and told you about it. Then, they realized that there really isn't a problem with them. Now, they'd look incredibly stupid if they said to you, "oh, sorry, we f-cked up, there really is no problem with the bushings." You'd never trust them to do an accurate diagnosis.

So, they don't want to admit to this, but they can't do a warranty repair just to save face with you, because if they got caught by American Honda for doing a bogus repair they'd be up sh-t creek. So, they just continue on with the lie.

"oh, they tangled webs we wieve..."

dcrandon

I posted the above thead before I finished reading the result of this. I was right! More or less...

sqzbox

Dealer No. 1 must have just purchased a new boat. Your control arm bushings would not be affected by the amount of horsepower you are running. You went in with a vague description of a problem they couldn't duplicate, he saw your mods and tried to scam you on the control arm bushings.

All the bushings and ball joints have some normal play in them. If you make them zero play they wear out to fast. If you jack a car up and take all the load off of the suspension, all the bushing and ball joints unload and will be pulled downward to the maximum play in the joint.

When you stick a big pry bar under the tire and shove up on it, all you are doing is taking the play back out. The motion looks like a lot, but that's because there is no load on the joint. Mechanics have been pulling this stunt since the invention of the wheel.

There's nothing wrong with your control arm bushings. Drive on and watch you tires for unusual wear, the real sing of a control arm bushing problem.

scv76_

Nobody asked the question: Does your car still make the noise or did you ever figure out what was causing it?
Nice to hear that your dealer finally made an effort to keep you as a customer!!

leopwr

Awesome avatar sqzbox....

I love "the speed"..........

leopwr

He mentioned earlier that the noise mysteriously disappeared.........

scv76_

My bad, I don't know how I missed that.
I just love it when our cars fix themselves!

Tripnbeats

dude whod u piss off? thats a crock of poop! id jus go to another dealer, fck em.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

I wonder if you're treated differently because you didn't purchase the vehicle at this dealer?

My dealer knows about my CAI and will know about the custom cat back. I'm not going to take all that off every time I need to visit their garage.

I'll just have to hope for the best if I do have any work to be done. I bought my car there, so maybe that'll help.

I hope the bushing issue isn't something we'll all have to deal with. Can you let us know if there was a defect or is this a design problem.

Hopefully you can work something out to get this covered.