USA Today Review
10-31-2003, 07:30 AM
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USA Today Review
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...10-30-tl_x.htm
Hmmm, starting with the mislabeled/wrong photo (a TSX), somethings just doesn't feel right about this one.
Update: photo has been corrected to show a SSM TL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honda's Acura TL semi-luxury sedan has been a terrific car and a solid bargain. It's been redesigned for 2004 and is a better-than-terrific car that's priced a bit higher.
The old TL, derived from the Honda Accord, was for people who wanted a faster, fancier Accord. It was priced about $30,000 and sold well.
The new TL starts at $33,195. It takes little from the Accord, and it carries over almost nothing but the name from the previous TL. The new one's a slasher, a runner, a zip-and-zinger aimed at the BMW crowd.
If you like the previous TL but think it'd be better with some jazz in its presentation, the new one's for you. If you like the old one as-is, skip the new one. You'll find it too firm, too gadget-laden and possibly too frisky (if that's possible). The '04 is a better performer than even the hot-rod Type-S version of the old one — enough so that no Type-S version of the new one is in the wings, Acura says.
Based on driving time in two test cars, one with a six-speed manual, the other with five-speed automatic, here are the salients, from obvious through sublime to ridiculous:
• Appearance. Nasty, in a good way. Low-slung pavement-eater, ready to rumble yet refined all the same. Looks good in pictures, better in person.
The wedge shape rises toward the rear so the entire car's an airfoil. Wheels are near the corners of the car, minimizing the so-called overhang that has given the previous TL a softer, more mainstream appearance. The new car, in fact, is about 4 inches shorter than the old, although it rides on a similar wheelbase. The '04 has fractionally more head and shoulder room and about the same legroom as the '03.
• Performance. Power and handling are upped considerably. The '04 TL has 270 horsepower and 238 pounds-feet of torque — significantly more than its predecessor's 225 hp, 216 lbs.-ft. and more than the Type-S version's 260 hp, 232 lbs.-ft.
The car will launch itself furiously, engine blazing, speed accumulating with delectable suddenness.
Where it ambushes you is on mildly slick pavement, still dry enough that you're not expecting extraordinary behavior. What you get is wheel spin aplenty without intent. Even with traction control (plus a limited slip differential on the manual-shift model), the engine too easily overpowers the traction available upon modest throttle application.
Brakes are big, and those on the manual-gearbox car are the coveted Brembo brand, disguised with the Acura name.
The easy-shifting manual transmission on the test car maintained the delightful mechanical feel that makes stirring the pot a joy instead of a job. But the clutch was difficult to engage smoothly from rest and in lower gears — even after days of studied practice.
The automatic sliced off upshifts like a butcher's saw through salami. Downshifts weren't quite as stellar, invoking a bit of the all-too-common pause-and-lurch. That's inexplicable, because the TL has so-called drive-by-wire, an electronic throttle control that allows engineers to tune the relationship between engine and transmission to near-perfection.
• Interior. Seats are handsome and quite comfortable. The back has enough legroom for most adults. The built-in child-seat latches on the test cars were a bit harder to engage than usual.
Conventional gauges are beautifully lighted and easily readable.
• Controls. Ah, there's the issue.
The driver information display was cumbersome, requiring more scrolling, toggling and selecting than seemed necessary to get, for instance, the fuel economy display.
The test cars were equipped with navigation systems, apparently an act of punishment from Acura.
Navi buries the stereo controls under layers, so you've got to work to tune a station or manipulate a CD. Sad, as the TL has a superb, six-channel stereo you'll love to use.
In its defense, the navi had exquisite route logic. A twirl though neighborhood back streets, designed to confuse a navi, didn't even make the TL's break a sweat. No strident "make a U-turn" from the grating voice. No whiny "new route being computed." The darn thing just instantly gave the next correct turn, onto a road obscure enough that it's not mapped on some systems.
But layering in the voice-command capability, as Acura insists on doing to burnish its credentials among tech-cravers, creates ruinous results. It takes what seems forever to start when you key the ignition. You needn't use voice commands, but when you do, Acura's perfecting to the contrary, the system has a tin ear and no common sense.
What's the one thing you'd expect it to display easily? The nearest Acura dealer. But no. Asking for that always got a screenful of temperature settings.
Hospital? Tin Ear provided hotel locations. Schools? How about a nice display of post offices?
Asking the screen to zoom in worked just so five or six times, then Tin Ear served up an AM radio station.
Exasperated, you try to head off road rage by asking for a nearby church. Tin Ear, an agnostic, zoomed out the navi screen — when it bothered to do anything.
We can only hope that offends the Almighty so greatly that all navis everywhere are struck down, not to be re-energized until the auto industry gets it finally, perfectly right. No delays, no mistakes, no burying simple controls under layers of choices, no weasely excuses about being unable to take local conditions into account. And no $2,000 price tag for what seems, at the current state of navi art, worth maybe $200 as a toy to keep the kids quiet.
The answer, if you share navi disgust, is to spend less and get your TL without.
Technology misuse aside, the '04 TL is a handsome effort that's a hoot to drive and still qualifies as quite a bargain.
Acura TL
• What is it? Full-boat redesign of the popular front-wheel-drive, premium sedan, carrying over almost nothing but the name. It's more powerful, handles better, looks sportier and is priced higher. TL is manufactured at Marysville, Ohio, with the Honda Accord to which it is loosely related.
• How soon? On sale since Oct. 6.
• How much? $33,195 with either six-speed manual or five-speed automatic transmission. Only factory options are navigation ($2,000) and high-performance tires ($200). Expect to pay full sticker price, say car-shopping services Edmunds.com and CarsDirect.com.
• Who'll buy? Sportier types than those who bought the previous version.
• How many? 65,000 a year.
• What's the powertrain? 3.2-liter V-6 engine rated 270 horsepower at 6,200 rpm, 238 pounds-feet of torque at 5,000 rpm; six-speed manual transmission or five-speed automatic with manual-shift mode; traction control. Manual transmission model also comes with limited-slip differential.
• What's the safety gear? Normal array of bags and belts, plus side-impact bags for front-seat occupants; head-curtain bags for front and rear rows; anti-lock brakes with brake assist and brake-force distribution; anti-skid control.
• What's the rest? Standard equipment includes leather upholstery; dual-zone automatic climate control; AM/FM/cassette stereo with six-CD changer and DVD-audio compatibility; wireless link to Blue Tooth-compatible cell phones; XM Satellite radio receiver; high-intensity-discharge high- and low-beam headlights; sunroof; power steering, brakes, windows, mirrors, locks, seats; heated front seats; remote-control locks; telescoping and tilt-adjustable steering column; auto-dim inside rearview mirror; rear-window defroster; P235/45R-17 Bridgestone Turanza all-season tires.
• How big? Slightly smaller than an Accord inside and out. TL is 186.2 inches long, 72.5 inches wide, 56.7 inches tall on a 107.9-inch wheelbase. Weight ranges from 3,482 to 3,582 pounds depending on model. Passenger space is listed as 97.9 cubic feet (vs. Accord's 102.7), short of the 100-cubic-foot threshold for midsize. Trunk is listed as 12.5 cubic feet (12.3 with navigation system).
• How thirsty? Automatic transmission model is rated 19 miles per gallon in town, 29 on the highway. Manual is 19/28. Premium fuel is recommended. Trip computer in manual test car registered 18 mpg in suburban driving; automatic, 19 mpg in similar driving.
• Overall: Terrific car that would be at least as good, and cheaper, without the techno-overkill.
Hmmm, starting with the mislabeled/wrong photo (a TSX), somethings just doesn't feel right about this one.
Update: photo has been corrected to show a SSM TL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honda's Acura TL semi-luxury sedan has been a terrific car and a solid bargain. It's been redesigned for 2004 and is a better-than-terrific car that's priced a bit higher.
The old TL, derived from the Honda Accord, was for people who wanted a faster, fancier Accord. It was priced about $30,000 and sold well.
The new TL starts at $33,195. It takes little from the Accord, and it carries over almost nothing but the name from the previous TL. The new one's a slasher, a runner, a zip-and-zinger aimed at the BMW crowd.
If you like the previous TL but think it'd be better with some jazz in its presentation, the new one's for you. If you like the old one as-is, skip the new one. You'll find it too firm, too gadget-laden and possibly too frisky (if that's possible). The '04 is a better performer than even the hot-rod Type-S version of the old one — enough so that no Type-S version of the new one is in the wings, Acura says.
Based on driving time in two test cars, one with a six-speed manual, the other with five-speed automatic, here are the salients, from obvious through sublime to ridiculous:
• Appearance. Nasty, in a good way. Low-slung pavement-eater, ready to rumble yet refined all the same. Looks good in pictures, better in person.
The wedge shape rises toward the rear so the entire car's an airfoil. Wheels are near the corners of the car, minimizing the so-called overhang that has given the previous TL a softer, more mainstream appearance. The new car, in fact, is about 4 inches shorter than the old, although it rides on a similar wheelbase. The '04 has fractionally more head and shoulder room and about the same legroom as the '03.
• Performance. Power and handling are upped considerably. The '04 TL has 270 horsepower and 238 pounds-feet of torque — significantly more than its predecessor's 225 hp, 216 lbs.-ft. and more than the Type-S version's 260 hp, 232 lbs.-ft.
The car will launch itself furiously, engine blazing, speed accumulating with delectable suddenness.
Where it ambushes you is on mildly slick pavement, still dry enough that you're not expecting extraordinary behavior. What you get is wheel spin aplenty without intent. Even with traction control (plus a limited slip differential on the manual-shift model), the engine too easily overpowers the traction available upon modest throttle application.
Brakes are big, and those on the manual-gearbox car are the coveted Brembo brand, disguised with the Acura name.
The easy-shifting manual transmission on the test car maintained the delightful mechanical feel that makes stirring the pot a joy instead of a job. But the clutch was difficult to engage smoothly from rest and in lower gears — even after days of studied practice.
The automatic sliced off upshifts like a butcher's saw through salami. Downshifts weren't quite as stellar, invoking a bit of the all-too-common pause-and-lurch. That's inexplicable, because the TL has so-called drive-by-wire, an electronic throttle control that allows engineers to tune the relationship between engine and transmission to near-perfection.
• Interior. Seats are handsome and quite comfortable. The back has enough legroom for most adults. The built-in child-seat latches on the test cars were a bit harder to engage than usual.
Conventional gauges are beautifully lighted and easily readable.
• Controls. Ah, there's the issue.
The driver information display was cumbersome, requiring more scrolling, toggling and selecting than seemed necessary to get, for instance, the fuel economy display.
The test cars were equipped with navigation systems, apparently an act of punishment from Acura.
Navi buries the stereo controls under layers, so you've got to work to tune a station or manipulate a CD. Sad, as the TL has a superb, six-channel stereo you'll love to use.
In its defense, the navi had exquisite route logic. A twirl though neighborhood back streets, designed to confuse a navi, didn't even make the TL's break a sweat. No strident "make a U-turn" from the grating voice. No whiny "new route being computed." The darn thing just instantly gave the next correct turn, onto a road obscure enough that it's not mapped on some systems.
But layering in the voice-command capability, as Acura insists on doing to burnish its credentials among tech-cravers, creates ruinous results. It takes what seems forever to start when you key the ignition. You needn't use voice commands, but when you do, Acura's perfecting to the contrary, the system has a tin ear and no common sense.
What's the one thing you'd expect it to display easily? The nearest Acura dealer. But no. Asking for that always got a screenful of temperature settings.
Hospital? Tin Ear provided hotel locations. Schools? How about a nice display of post offices?
Asking the screen to zoom in worked just so five or six times, then Tin Ear served up an AM radio station.
Exasperated, you try to head off road rage by asking for a nearby church. Tin Ear, an agnostic, zoomed out the navi screen — when it bothered to do anything.
We can only hope that offends the Almighty so greatly that all navis everywhere are struck down, not to be re-energized until the auto industry gets it finally, perfectly right. No delays, no mistakes, no burying simple controls under layers of choices, no weasely excuses about being unable to take local conditions into account. And no $2,000 price tag for what seems, at the current state of navi art, worth maybe $200 as a toy to keep the kids quiet.
The answer, if you share navi disgust, is to spend less and get your TL without.
Technology misuse aside, the '04 TL is a handsome effort that's a hoot to drive and still qualifies as quite a bargain.
Acura TL
• What is it? Full-boat redesign of the popular front-wheel-drive, premium sedan, carrying over almost nothing but the name. It's more powerful, handles better, looks sportier and is priced higher. TL is manufactured at Marysville, Ohio, with the Honda Accord to which it is loosely related.
• How soon? On sale since Oct. 6.
• How much? $33,195 with either six-speed manual or five-speed automatic transmission. Only factory options are navigation ($2,000) and high-performance tires ($200). Expect to pay full sticker price, say car-shopping services Edmunds.com and CarsDirect.com.
• Who'll buy? Sportier types than those who bought the previous version.
• How many? 65,000 a year.
• What's the powertrain? 3.2-liter V-6 engine rated 270 horsepower at 6,200 rpm, 238 pounds-feet of torque at 5,000 rpm; six-speed manual transmission or five-speed automatic with manual-shift mode; traction control. Manual transmission model also comes with limited-slip differential.
• What's the safety gear? Normal array of bags and belts, plus side-impact bags for front-seat occupants; head-curtain bags for front and rear rows; anti-lock brakes with brake assist and brake-force distribution; anti-skid control.
• What's the rest? Standard equipment includes leather upholstery; dual-zone automatic climate control; AM/FM/cassette stereo with six-CD changer and DVD-audio compatibility; wireless link to Blue Tooth-compatible cell phones; XM Satellite radio receiver; high-intensity-discharge high- and low-beam headlights; sunroof; power steering, brakes, windows, mirrors, locks, seats; heated front seats; remote-control locks; telescoping and tilt-adjustable steering column; auto-dim inside rearview mirror; rear-window defroster; P235/45R-17 Bridgestone Turanza all-season tires.
• How big? Slightly smaller than an Accord inside and out. TL is 186.2 inches long, 72.5 inches wide, 56.7 inches tall on a 107.9-inch wheelbase. Weight ranges from 3,482 to 3,582 pounds depending on model. Passenger space is listed as 97.9 cubic feet (vs. Accord's 102.7), short of the 100-cubic-foot threshold for midsize. Trunk is listed as 12.5 cubic feet (12.3 with navigation system).
• How thirsty? Automatic transmission model is rated 19 miles per gallon in town, 29 on the highway. Manual is 19/28. Premium fuel is recommended. Trip computer in manual test car registered 18 mpg in suburban driving; automatic, 19 mpg in similar driving.
• Overall: Terrific car that would be at least as good, and cheaper, without the techno-overkill.
10-31-2003, 01:13 PM
#5
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Re: Re: USA Today Review
Originally posted by DMZ
There's one mistake right off the bat!
There's one mistake right off the bat!
Navi
10-31-2003, 01:37 PM
#7
CEO of IMHO
He was off on the size, though. I believe it's about 8 inches shorter than the 03 TL.
Also, regarding the NAVI, we do need some independent confirmation there. When I played with voice-activated NAVI on the TSX in a test drive, I had the tin ear problem as well. I assumed I just didn't know how to speak to it correctly, and that once I figured out what it wanted to hear, I'd speak it.
Also, regarding the NAVI, we do need some independent confirmation there. When I played with voice-activated NAVI on the TSX in a test drive, I had the tin ear problem as well. I assumed I just didn't know how to speak to it correctly, and that once I figured out what it wanted to hear, I'd speak it.
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10-31-2003, 01:41 PM
#8
an Acura has-been
I think they were an anti-Nav person (there are many out there).
The audio system display is one button push away, and all you have to say is audio and it pops up????
Regarding the Tin ear thing, you just need to know the correct format of the sentance, such as you can not say "floor setting cliamate control" but need to say "climate control, floor"
Or to turn off the recirculating air you have to say c"liamate control fresh air" not "cliamate control recirculating air off"
once you know the formatt, it works great, it is just to find the right sequence to get it to work (plus if you are in the wrong screen, it can throw it off.
The audio system display is one button push away, and all you have to say is audio and it pops up????
Regarding the Tin ear thing, you just need to know the correct format of the sentance, such as you can not say "floor setting cliamate control" but need to say "climate control, floor"
Or to turn off the recirculating air you have to say c"liamate control fresh air" not "cliamate control recirculating air off"
once you know the formatt, it works great, it is just to find the right sequence to get it to work (plus if you are in the wrong screen, it can throw it off.
10-31-2003, 01:56 PM
#9
CEO of IMHO
Regarding audio controls.... what buttons do you lose by going to the NAVI version?
What options are only available via NAV screen?
Is it true that in production 04TLs that the XM info is not displayed on the NAV screen?
Any info appreciated!
What options are only available via NAV screen?
Is it true that in production 04TLs that the XM info is not displayed on the NAV screen?
Any info appreciated!
10-31-2003, 02:48 PM
#10
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10-31-2003, 03:30 PM
#11
CEO of IMHO
SporTrac,
Thanks, but unfortunately, that doesn't really answer my question because the 'stock footage' may have features/screens that didn't make it into production. Somewhere on the boards, I read that on the TL, the XM content only shows up on the upper LCD display area.
Can someone who has the NAVI respond to my questions?
Thanks!
Thanks, but unfortunately, that doesn't really answer my question because the 'stock footage' may have features/screens that didn't make it into production. Somewhere on the boards, I read that on the TL, the XM content only shows up on the upper LCD display area.
Can someone who has the NAVI respond to my questions?
Thanks!
11-01-2003, 09:38 AM
#15
CEO of IMHO
Thanks Ray and Bigdomer....
So, it sounds like our USA Today reviewer should be let go for being a lazy bastard by writing patently untrue things about an item he is asking us to trust his opinions on.
Good to know.
So, it sounds like our USA Today reviewer should be let go for being a lazy bastard by writing patently untrue things about an item he is asking us to trust his opinions on.
Good to know.
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