ok, guys. Another one topic about "what oil to use"? No.
I'm sure that for my transmission would be better to use Z1 fluid instead of DW-1. But now we can not buy Honda Z1. So what fluid is similar to Z1 now? All I could find is Valvoline MaxLife Multi-Vehicle Automatic Transmission Fluid. But people say this fluid will kill my transmission.

 

I use to use Royal purple in the auto TL. Now using Redline ATF due increased temps from Comptech.

The 2012 MDX uses Castrol transmax(Cheap stuff from Costless parts).

From my experience it’s all about the same.

Maintaining fluid levels and replacing it on time is more important.

 

I thought Z1 was the old stuff everyone hated?

 

Use one of the following ATFs; nothing else is approved for use in your transmission:

• Honda/Acura DW-1
• Idemitsu ATF TYPE-H PLUS
• Aisin ATF DW-1

 

Oh, hmm. I don't know this story. Why does everyone hate this oil? It has a viscosity which is better for a warm climate.

 

Thanks for the list! And do acurazine community know specific cases about somebody's transmission breakdown because of using Valvoline MaxLife oil? It would be a very interesting information. These two Idemitsu and Aisin oil could appear in this list because they paid money to Honda. Or because they are japanese friends. Or other marketing tricks. And Honda inspires people to buy only these oils. But maybe Valvoline works good too.
And I also wonder what oil is inside the bottle with a "Honda" inscription? Is it ConocoPhillips for transmission oils?

 

According to the russian resource (oil-club.ru) there is no any fluid which would be an analog to Honda DW-1, by the chemical composition. But we consider that Idemitsu ATF TYPE-H PLUS and Aisin ATF DW-1 are approved. Who give them the "approval"? Honda? Does Honda give approvals?
I'm asking not because I want to argue. I am just trying to get a confirmed information, a confident knowledge.

 

By approved I mean, they have the proper flow properties and the proper coefficients of friction (CoF), which, if anything, is far more important than the base oil itself; that and one of them is the OEM maker of Honda's ATF (don't remember which). Said another way, pick and ATF with the best base oil in the world but which does not have the proper friction properties, and you will destroy your transmission in short order. The Idemitsu and Aisin are the ONLY two non-Honda ATFs which conform to the DW-1 standard. Things like MaxLife is a "jack of all trades, master of none"; it may be close to the Honda formulation, but given Valvoline also claims it is for use in other marques, that is your immediate red-flag this ATF is inappropriate for any and all Honda applications.

 

Interesting, I haven’t used Honda/Acura ATF in my Acura TL for more than 100,000 miles, beat on it anytime I could, have been running supercharged for nearly 20k miles, and my transmission runs smooth and strong.

My MDX auto trans runs great as well?


Do you have documented evidence of Auto TL owners switching ATF and having catostrophic failures?

Perhaps if you put ATF in your power steering like IHateCars once did, you may eventually have an issue due to the power steering fluid system having a different oil CoF requirement than a 3G TL transmission.


Short order? Perhaps just in stature.

 

Anecdotal evidence is no evidence. If you think you're smarter than the engineers who designed your transmission, knock yourself out.

 

Were you a Honda engineer?

Otherwise, it’s personal experience.


The drawing boards states that highlighters don’t draw like sharpies.

 

A Honda engineer? No, I was an engineer for Volvo, Chrysler, and Daimler-Benz. The fact remains, every manufacturer designs their transmissions for very specific a CoF, if you use an ATF meant for a different manufacturer, or a "Universal" ATF, then the CoF will, by definition, be incorrect.

Call it "personal experience" if you will, I call it educated advice.

 

Educated experience provides the restraints of golden handcuffs. The more educated you are, the more rigid your answers and understanding become. You sir, are stiff as a board.

What type of engineer were you for these stellar makes? Was this in the days of carbureted engines? Because I haven’t seen you do anything with a Honda.


Firebolts original question was which oil with the correct CoF was above Honda, aisin, ect?

Since you are a man of facts. What is the clutch pack rate of degradation when using universal ATF vs. Honda sponsored oil?

 

Look, I get it your ego got hurt when I highlighted the flaw in your argument, but why keep pushing? You can deflect any way you want; the fact remains, the only ATF with the correct flow and friction properties for late model Honda transmissions is, DW-1. If you choose not to believe that, great.

 

Your a man of facts, an engineer even, yet you give up on drilling down to better understand the dynamic facets of this issue?

You couldn’t have been an engineer of much merit with this train of thought. Ego.

Again, the sum of Firebolts question was, 1. Which oil company sells oil with the correct CoF to Aisin and Honda. And 2., what is the rate of clutch pack degradation when using Volvoline Maxlife ATF vs. Honda’s DW-1 recommended fluids.


Just because you lost an argument after multiple deflections and credential strutting, doesn’t mean the questions have been answered. You truly are a highlightedly learned engineer.

 

But I still appreciate your dedication and input to this forum.

 

Spoken like the Donald himself.

 

LOL. I knew horseshoez would chime in and get argumentative.

I use Valvoline Maxlife myself with ZERO issue on my 07 AV6. There are engineers on paper and then there are engineers who do actual practices.

Some guys over at odyclub actually fixed slightly slipping trans on their 3rd gen Odyssey using MaxLife. I used their advice. Nobody there is arguing that it shouldn't be used.

 

Well there you go, grinding your old axe again.

 

If you'll look at their chemical composition you can see they are absolutely different. I'm about Honda oil and Idemitsu. Honda's composition - here, Idemitsu - here. It is very interesting, isn't it? So Idemitsu is not an OEM maker. Maybe Toyota is an OEM maker of Honda oil? No. Found it's composition too - here. And all others are different than Honda oil. Honda oil is a very good oil, super high quality. Noone use zinc as a friction modifier like Honda do.

But you believe these two oils (which is absolutely different than Honda) are ok for using, and MaxLife is not ok. Could you please explain why do you think so? How did you know that these absolutely different oils have a correct flow and friction properties for late model Honda transmissions and Valvoline does not? It looks like you assume they are good, because they said they are good. But Valvoline says MaxLife is good too.
I really don't want to argue. Just trying to get a confident knowledge.

 

Okay, I'll try this one final time (even though I'm having a difficult time understanding why these concepts are not getting through to y'all):

• Honda/Acura DW-1, Idemitsu ATF TYPE-H PLUS, Aisin ATF DW-1 are all formulated specifically to Honda's DW-1 standard and are not suitable for use in any other cars.
• Valvoline MaxLife Multi-Vehicle ATF, per Valvoline's web site, is "suitable for use in a broad range of ATF applications including most Ford, GM, Toyota & Honda models as well as Dex/Merc, Mercon LV and many more applications."

With the above stated, unless you believe Ford, GM, Toyota, and Honda are all specifying the exact same flow and friction properties for their automatic transmissions, then you cannot possibly believe MaxLife ATF is appropriate for use in any Honda transmission. I'll leave it for you all to decide for yourselves, I'm done here.

 

And one more time we have the same: we believe to what they say. If we do, the next picture is working in next both cases. Aisin engineers cooked something on their kitchen. They don't know how Honda cooks its oil. The formula of their oil is absolutely different. But when they checked its properties they said: "Ohhh, it's just like Honda's DW-1!" What Valvoline engineers did? They did the same! After cooking they checked oils properties and understood that its properties is ok for Honda's Z1. Their oils' properties match to Honda's standards. And there is nothing we can do with it. Unless we don't believe to Aisin and Valvoline engineers.

So why do you believe to Aisin and Idemitsu's engineers and do not believe to Valvoline's engineers? They all says their oils have a correct flow and friction properties for Honda.

 

Because in my experience, different manufacturers do not collaborate to such a degree as to allow one ATF to work for dozens of transmission designs for four different manufacturers. The difference between the Aisin and Idemitsu offerings and the Valvoline offering is the two former ATFs are meant for one application, the latter is not.

Please understand, I am not trying to change your mind, you'll believe what you want to believe; the folks I'm trying to get through to are folks who may not know any better and might be incorrectly influenced by irrelevant anecdotal reports of "I've used MaxLife for x,000 of miles and I haven't had any problems so far."

 

Everyone gets all wound up tight on these topics. Horseshoez responds back from an Engineer perspective and others chime in from specific personal experience. Nobody is right or wrong on this one. Will MaxLife ATF for sure destroy your transmission? Unlikely. Will putting water in your transmission destroy it? Most likely. The big point here is that "rarely" is a jack of all trades fluid going to be "optimal" for specific use cases when compared to the OE spec fluids. There may be outside cases that it works better. I mean hell, those of us with the MT don't even use OE fluids half the time....we are using GM fluid.

The point is, read up, see the 273 different opinions, and make a decision. Don't use crappy fluid. Find the threads where people were mixing stuff...there were a lot of those a few years back with Redline, D4, and a few other blends. Lots of things that have been tested and failed. Don't do those again...well unless you want to test again.

Safest best, stick to the list from Horseshoez. Can you use MaxLife? Sure...if you find good info that it solves a problem for you...why not? Others are saying no issues with MaxLife. Growing up, we never used OE fluids in any of our cars. My TL is the first car that has mostly only ever tasted OE fluids....that is until I switched to the GM juice. Now even on my wife's GMC, I use OE fluids. I don't want to deal with any potential risks of it "being close enough" to the formula and the cost savings isn't always there in the first place.

 

Thank you for sharing your experience! I appreciate it.

 

Perhaps in an climate with extreme seasons and temperatures, OE fluid would be better. But regular driving in the mild PNW would not be quite as necessary.

 

why would you not just use the stuff that Acura tells you to use? 305,000 miles on my transmission tells me that it works just fine.

 

Whats you age bracket and driving style?

The longevity of a vehicles parts is multifactorial.

Using OE brand lube is best, but aftermarket lube works well.

Using Valvoline Maxlife ATF, but changing it out regularly is more beneficial than running OE fluid longer than recommended.

 

If our cars were still new or even a decade old it would matter. At this point you can test valvoline for yourself if you so wish it’s not that critical.

 

Why do you think so? Because used parts are not so expensive on the junkyard?
It is strange but I saw on eBay transmissions for this TL generation are 2 times more expensive.

 

I suppose He means that the warranty is gone, and used auto trannys are $500 delivered to your doorstep with warranty.

 

OP,

I read in some of your other posts that you drive a 2005 TL. Keep in mind, the 2004-2006 3G TLs have a different (many say more fragile transmission) than the 2007-2008. One has to wonder why Acura would decide to switch transmissions in the middle of a generation (yes I realize this is speculation -- even worse than anecdotal).

In collecting anecdotes to make your decision, keep in mind your transmission may not be the same one that another poster is using. It will definitely not be run/maintained in the same way.

I have a 2005 auto. I decided long ago my car has a fragile transmission, mostly based on anecdotal information (I looked and found very little of what I consider hard data). So I do all I reasonably can to increase my odds of never having to replace the transmission. I do a yearly 3x3. I only use Honda fluid. I change the filter/switches every 25,000 miles.

I think Idematsu is the maker of Honda atf. That said, I could only find their stuff cheaper than OEM on Amazon. I’ve been avoiding Amazon because of so many stories of counterfeit goods (even sold by Amazon). The ten dollars in savings is not worth the risk to me.

 

$500 is a good price. On eBay I can find only $1000.

 

If interested in AISIN ATFDW1, it's $4.80 qt. on rockauto.
It's alternate/OEM Part Number(s): 082009008 Honda ATF.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...sn=317&jsn=317

 

Z-1 is hot trash. Super soft shifts means slippage. The DW-1 fluid is very noticeably better. DW-1 is backwards compatible so its fine for our transmissions. Redline D4 is a good aftermarket ATF, shifts will be slightly firmer.

 

My age bracket has changed since I bought car in 2007. But I drive the dreaded Merritt Parkway in CT everyday where aggressive driving is required. I just figure that if you spend $35000 on a car then I am not going to worry too much about a few bucks on fluid that gets changed every couple of years. I do all of my maintenance at or before the due date and use quality fluids/parts. Cost of owning a car that I wanted to last, and last it has. Still in great shape.