delphinus

Hey all~
I am thinking about buying a new 2004 auto acura tl. I test drove
one the other day and loved it. The only problem I had was that I
experienced some major torque steer when i accelerated from a low speed. It was most pronounced when punching the gas from a stop. It was also very noticable accelerating out of a tight corner. I view this occurance as a potentially dangerous handling problem. Is this par for the acura tl or did I test a lemon? Thanks in advance.

~delphinus

TLover

The torque steer is a characteristic of the car. But imagine this: You're driving a 270 hp RWD car and punch it in a turn. Spin out. Punching the gas going around a turn is always tricky. The torque steer is probably my only criticism about the car, but IMHO, it's a minor issue.

UminChu

Were you driving an AT or an MT?

delphinus

UminChu - it was an AT

TLover - I'm confused by your reply - isn't the TL FWD? I agree that punching the gas going around a turn is "tricky". The only vehicle in which you should ever accelerate in a turn is a motorcycle. The torque steer I experienced was under normal acceleration coming out of the turn and did not involve a punching of the gas. The bottom line - I guess it really caught me off gaurd and I wans't sure if the pulling was normal. Since it apparently is normal, is it simply something you just get used to?

TLover

Oh ... the point I was trying to make is, yes, the TL has torque steer because it's a powerful FWD car, but that RWD cars have their own quirks. Basically, I'm saying I wouldn't hold the torque steer against TL.

Saintor

It is the price to pay instead of having only 225HP.

UminChu

I'm wondering if you were actually experiencing torque steer, understeer, or possible alignment issues. Any front wheel drive car, even underpowered ones, will understeer. If you accelerated and the car pulled on you, that could have been an alignment problem rather than torque steer. My car does not pull under acceleration in the dry. I drove a 5AT loaner for close to two weeks while awaiting delivery of my car. It was winter time, icy roads, it wasn't my car, so I never really got on it very hard. Under those conditions, taking it easy during normal, everyday driving, my opinion was that torque steer was a non-existent issue in 5AT TLs. The loaner I drove tracked straight, I could lift my hands from the wheel slightly, and the car would still track straight. It can be more of an issue in my 6MT, especially in winter. Even when it comes on, it's just a quick, momentary thing. By the time I start thinking about it, I've already reacted to it, made the necessary compensation, and it's over. In any case, it's minor. The thing I like least about it is because of LSD in the 6MT, you never know which way it will pull, you have to respond to it on the fly. I don't drive my car that hard, but it is fun to jump on it up tollway ramps and such. In the dry, no torque steer. No problem. Nearly all the roads here are straight and flat, so I don't get to do much hard corneriing, and therefore can't comment on accelerating out of a curve. 5ATs don't have the LSD, so it's more predictable. If you're leaning toward an AT, IMO, you'd have even less to worry about.

vtechbrain

If you were driving the AT it wasn't torque steer. The auto will just not do it. What you probably felt was the intervention of of the traction control system. BTW the 6spd doesn't have it either but the intervention of the LSD when peeling out can be felt throught the steering wheel. The less knowledgeable think that is torque steer!

Bitium

I think you are just lossing traction!!!!! normal for stock tires.

VTEC=happiness

Do we know if he had even broke traction?? He didn't mention tire spin. The reason I ask is because I have a AT and I feel that at heavy acceleration I have a bit of torque steer and have to muscle the wheel a little bit to get the car going where I want it to. I assumed that is torque steer, but am I wrong?

Bitium

05 TL should have this to fix FWD torque steering.

Steer-by-wire systems - Going one step further, these systems would completely eliminate the mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the steering, replacing it with a purely electronic control system. Essentially, the steering wheel would work like the one you can buy for your home computer to play games. It would contain sensors that tell the car what the driver is doing with the wheel, and have some motors in it to provide the driver with feedback on what the car is doing. The output of these sensors would be used to control a motorized steering system. This would free up space in the engine compartment by eliminating the steering shaft. It would also reduce vibration inside the car.

Skeedatl

I have 5AT and have MAJOR torque steer. The LSD doesn't compensate for torque steer, just exacerbates it. Torque steer is simply unequal forces acting upon the drive line, whether they're induced by the car, or more differences between driver and passeneger traction...both are torque steer.

Bitium

your car does not have an LSD just a differential.

Skeedatl

If the differential isn't limited slip, what type of differential is it?

Bitium

It is an open differential. 5AT has an open differential the 6MT has an LSD.

Here is a little explanation.

Car wheels spin at different speeds, especially when turning. Each wheel travels a different distance through the turn, and that the inside wheels travel a shorter distance than the outside wheels. Since speed is equal to the distance traveled divided by the time it takes to go that distance, the wheels that travel a shorter distance travel at a lower speed. Also note that the front wheels travel a different distance than the rear wheels.


For the non-driven wheels on your car -- the front wheels on a rear-wheel drive car, the back wheels on a front-wheel drive car -- this is not an issue. There is no connection between them, so they spin independently. But the driven wheels are linked together so that a single engine and transmission can turn both wheels. If your car did not have a differential, the wheels would have to be locked together, forced to spin at the same speed. This would make turning difficult and hard on your car: For the car to be able to turn, one tire would have to slip. With modern tires and concrete roads, a great deal of force is required to make a tire slip. That force would have to be transmitted through the axle from one wheel to another, putting a heavy strain on the axle components.


The open differential always applies the same amount of torque to each wheel. There are two factors that determine how much torque can be applied to the wheels: equipment and traction. In dry conditions, when there is plenty of traction, the amount of torque applied to the wheels is limited by the engine and gearing; in a low traction situation, such as when driving on ice, the amount of torque is limited to the greatest amount that will not cause a wheel to slip under those conditions. So, even though a car may be able to produce more torque, there needs to be enough traction to transmit that torque to the ground. If you give the car more gas after the wheels start to slip, the wheels will just spin faster.

The solution to these problems is the limited slip differential (LSD), sometimes called positraction. Limited slip differentials use various mechanisms to allow normal differential action when going around turns. When a wheel slips, they allow more torque to be transferred to the non-slipping wheel.

There are different types of limited slip differentials, including the clutch-type LSD, the viscous coupling, locking differential and Torsen differential.

vtechbrain

Regular type. If you turn off your VSA and hit a wet patch one wheel will slip and the other will just sit there.. On the 6mt When one starts to slip the differential will proportion power to the one that isn't Thats why the 6mt tugs when there is tire slipage the differential is switching traction from side to side. On the Auto, tire slippage is much less of an issue and the addition of traction control eliminates slippage almost completely. If you think your auto has torque steer what you probably have is an alignment issue.

Bitium

I personally describe torque steering as:

The steering geometry changes under heavy lateral or acceleration loads.

This is mostly cause by different length shaft, the TL has an intermediate shaft that allows both the right and left shaft to be the same length......I have come to the conclusion that a lot of people confuse traction with torque steering......

In my personal driving experience I did not notice a significant amount of torque steering to even think about complaining.

I was very careful in my test drive since I had read on the forum and magazines about torque steering, but after my test drive I have to disagree with them.

Skeedatl

That's what I was wondering...what you guys were calling "regular" I (and other's) call "open". And that sucks...I want posi too As for alignment as I mention in another thread...the car doesn't pull, but it could maybe have bad toe or caster (as I haven't checked)...which I'm not sure would cause this.

Bitium

Regular or open it don't matter.....they are just not limited slip.

I want active LSD with real time AWD and AWSteering. Only one car known to man R34....I want one.

Talk about torque steer on a car with 1000+hp with AWD and all wheel steering call HICAS.

I never heard torque steer on that car, but then again is just a totally diffent felling and I haven't driven the car.

Skeedatl

Thanks guys for the clarification. Now I'm just baffled by this "whateveryouwouldcallit" steer and minor bumpsteer issues.

Bitium

anytime....be happy with the wonderful car you own. I know more than most about the 04 TL and I can't even own one. I still drive my 99 TL......wich has giving me wonderful 4 years of fun and reliability.

vtechbrain

What ever happened to your quest for an intermittent switch for your Ody?

Bitium

I'm not sure I know what you are talking about

vtechbrain

Must have been some other guy from Ramstein! He was looking for info on how to make his 99 Ody have an intermittent rear wiper. Keep your eyes open If you see a guy with a US Ody over there it is probably him there shouldn't be many Ody's around the base.

Swat Dude

Do you really think this would help a driver's car? I already think the TL has too much assist at all speeds and does not give any feedback from the road. And for the guy who said he had to muscle his car, I can turn my TL in an 80 mph turn with my pinky!

Skeedatl

I wouldn't want steer by wire simple 'cause what happens if it dies. Trottle dies big deal, steering...ooooffff.

TIMH

Well, I don't whether you call it torque steer, but in acceleration my 5AT definitely pulls to the left. Going from 35 to 65 on the highway I must have my hand on the wheel to prevent the car from pulling into the left hand lane. I drove a second TL and it was the same. The service guy told me I had a "heavy foot." Try quick acceleration on the highway while only lightly touching the wheel. If your not getting a pull to the left then the two cars I drove are experiencing problems.

Bitium

yeah right!!!! there are 1000's of ody's I don't have one. There is like 30k americans living here, just in the area.

vtechbrain

Son, when I was there almost 20 yrs ago there were 300K GI's in the FRG. After gulf war I essentially everybody left. I was a delta wing mosquito rank back then, I know your pain!

Bitium

I'm sure.....there were a lot.....they closed another base just recently.