neuronbob

I went to the GM-sponsored Auto Show in Motion today here in Cleveland. If you haven't heard of it,it's an opportunity to drive GM cars and compare them to the competition. I drove most of the cars in the same class as the TL today, and.....the BMW 325i wins (in handling)! Let's face it, the handling is better than the TL, but not by much. On overall features for the price, the TL wins hands down over anything the General or any other Japanese lux maker can put out.

Cars available: BMW 325i, Lexus 330, Saab 9-5 aero, Acura TL, Cadillac CTS (not V ), Mercedes C320, Saab 9-3, Saab 9-5 wagon, Saab 9-2X (nee Subaru WRX Sti wagon) (bold cars are the ones I actually drove). Notably absent was the Infiinit G35. Comments about each:

Caddy CTS: Cheap interior. It doesn't handle as well as the Beemer or TL even though it's RWD, but it's clearly better than all the others. I place it 3rd in handling. The suspension is clearly slightly detuned for the average fat American driver; it would do with a slight drop, more steering feel, and better tires.

BMW 325i was the best handling of all the cars I drove. it's obviously underpowered compared to the TL. The interior leaves much to be desired compared to the TL. However, you buy this car to drive it. It's really true what they say about this BMW as it has excellent road feel, "telepathic steering", is flat in the turns with no understeer. Even so, my TL with the A-spec suspension comes VERY close to the BMW. I mean CLOSE. Even the stock TL I drove is quite close to the BMW, as I describe below.

The TL they had was a 5AT NBP/ebony non-navi, VIN #56711. I didn't realize how sweet our exhaust sounds from outside the car. It handles quite well in steep turns, with minimal body roll and very slight understeer. The steering feel is MUCH improved as compared to my early build TL, and I felt no torque steer. I think Acura fixed the overboosted steering that many people, including me, complained about in earlier builds. Good for Acura! I wish I could have taken my A-Spec-ized car on the course for comparison. As I say above, the TL is NOT that far, in stock form, from the Beemer except for steering feel which, while improved from early builds, is not to BMW specs. I had to stand on line a second time to get the VIN; I knew y'all would be pestering me for that. Oh yeah, no squeaks or drooping headliner. Ergonomics of the TL were the best of the bunch.

The Lexus ES 300 had only 110 miles on it and the sunroof was squeaking like crazy! I could only laugh. Steering feel was way overboosted. Compared to the TL, the TL's overboosting (early VINs only I guess) is very mild. Body roll even in mild turns, more than the CTS which had quite a bit. Cheapest looking and feeling cupholders of the lot, I was surprised. Navi screen smaller but REALLY sharp compared to the TL, much better in that regard. The ES was the only true luxury car of the lot, and it truly has not a single sporting bone in its body. I wish they'd had an IS300, which is more sporting and would be better suited to my style of driving (and it looks better too!!!).

Saab 9-5 Aero had great acceleration. Otherise its ride was not memorable. Handling was not bad, but not as good as the Beemer/TL (which were the best-handling of the lot) and CTS. Torque steer!!! It's there and is a huge factor in its handling in the turns. Ergonomics was the worst of the bunch with chiclet-type buttons, eww. Who thought of that crap?

Mercedes C320Felt really powerful, enough so that I had to feather to accelerator to keep from giving too much gas. It suffered from "too many buttonitis" like the Saab. Handling was reasonable. Of the "near luxury" cars I drove, the handling in this car came in 4th after the Beemer, TL, and CTS.

So.....

Handling: 1) BMW 2) TL 3) CTS 4) MB 320 5) Saab 9-5 6) ES300
Interior: 1) TL 2) MB C320 3) BMW 4) Lexus (sorry, sqeuaking sunroof in a brand-new car is unacceptable) 5) CTS 6) Saab 9-5
Overall value: 1) TL wins

I'll post pics later.

I also drove the Corvette. Forget my plans for a leased G35 coupe, I want a 'vette. I can afford to at least lease one. This car simply sticks in the turns and accelerates like a beast. I WANT ONE.

I also drove the Chevy SSR--too little power for curb weight of 4700 pounds and the handling is poor, but it looks good.

I test drove several SUVs as well--the BMW X5, Acura MDX, Ford Escape, Chevy Equinox (this is a surprisingly good small SUV--if I were in the market, I'd buy one), and Honda Pilot.

All in all, it was a fun morning. I'm thinking about going back tomorrow for the last day.

flnsx

Great review buddy!

I wish I could have been there with you.

neuronbob

BMW 325i


Lexus ES330


Lexus ES330 navi


Saab 9-5 Aero


Cadillac CTS looks great in black.


NBP TL on queue for the Luxury Car course


The TL and BMW 325i lines were the busiest during the entire 5 hours I was at the event, starting from 8 AM (which is when I took this picture)


The Luxury Car course...TL is on the right.


This one is for Emumessenger....and he's absolutely right. This is the trip computer display from the MDX. Why don't we have this on OUR TL? This would be an AWESOME feature on our navi!

ed99

GOod job...for the informative review!!!

Aegir

Awesome! Looks like it was a lot of fun. I think I'd keep getting in the Vette line! Thanks for sharing.

tlguy99

Last time I went they had a wrist band so you could only go on it once. I actually got to take out a z06. That was incredible.

neuronbob

Exactly. The only way to do the 'vette course twice would be to leave the event completely, then re-enter and get a new bracelet.

All the manual 'vettes were Z06s, I would've wanted to stand in THAT line too.

ColdFusionTL

i wished i could do something like you did. I'd love to drive all those cars to compare. Too bad the G35 wasn't there. I wonder why..

boltjames

Great stuff!

That ES330 looks like junk....outside is like a Camry and the interior is just too cheap for words.

BJ

shawn744

steering wheel looks hot as shit though...love that wood look.

rets

I missed this event today... bad...

Neuronbob, thanks for the update and VIN. I'm kind of surprised the new 04TL is handling much better than the early built one, did I buy my car too early? I don't think so, my car is almost perfect, except the annoying rattle and thin paint finish.

rets

I cannot remember when was the last time I test-drove ES330, but this console looks aweful... :o

VOdoc

Outstanding post, neuronbob...thanks for the excellent validation of our collective wise decision!

The Camry--er, Lexus--sure is lame. It's hard to understand why the little 3-series Beemer gets compared with the TL as it is a MUCH smaller car. The Saab is crude, no question. The Chrysler/Benz looks pretty but Consumer Reports says stay away; I believe them. Cadillac? When pigs fly.

Glad I bought an Acura. I do like the trip computer display from the MDX, but I suspect that is a non-navi...? How sweet would THAT be on the TL!!

neuronbob

I disagree. The General is starting to do some things right. For example: the CTS-V. I REALLY wish they'd had one to test today. Imagine THAT as your daily driver. I mean, it's bascially a four-door sports car. With a slightly detuned Corvette engine, I would very quickly forgive a cheap interior.

Formula 350

I did this in Houston last year... however, your lines were a LOT shorter than ours!

The line for the vettes were at least 100 people!! did not want to wait.

However, it was a fun event.

rets

That pic was taken around 8 AM by Bob... it's too early to show all ppl...

Teh Jatt

ok master

Eduardo

I do hope that your steering reaction whilst test driving the TL is correct! I test drove a 2004 TL Memorial day weekend and I could not overcome the "loose" feel of the steering. I guess I've been spoiled by the amazing handling/steering feel of the 325i. I forgot the VIN on the 2004 that I test drove. D-oh! I do venture it might have been an early to middle VIN build.

At this point I'll probably wait for the 2005 TL and also see if the 3 series BMW will being to incorporate some subtle changes as the 3 series is scheduled for major changes for the 2006 model year. I test drove an AWD Mercedes-Benz C 320 Luxury sedan today and must say that I also like the handling/steering feel (though the 325i is still my champion).

neuronbob

The loose steering is a nod to the "luxury" part of the TL's function. One way to improve on this is to lower the car without waiting for Acura to change the car is to lower it (e.g. A-Spec suspension like I did, or Comptech springs). The demo cars have tended to be lower VIN numbers, so that could affect things.

I think it's OK to wait so you can see what BMW is offering, but I suspect the TL won't change significantly. And as far as being spoiled by the 325i......Just imagine a 330i with Sport Package.....that would be the king of handling, with decent power. Too bad you have to pay so much for the "cachet factor". I may be a TL fan, but I'm not blind to other cars, and the 3 series DEFINITELY handles better. But the TL is catching up, especially in A-Spec suspension trim.

lindros2

neuronbob -- did you drive the C5 or C6 (2005) Corvette?

neuronbob

I drove the C5. It would've been nice to have driven a C6

Acura TL Builder

test drive days?!! Where do you all live? here in good ol' Portland, Or we dont have "test drive" days. All we have is declinations from dealerships! (at least thats my personal experience) :P

alexkcha

Wait, these aren't the real interior pictures of the TL or the ES, are they? I test drove a brand new ES and it looked a lot better than the picture. Is that how the console looks for a non-nav TL?

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

^^^^ the pic states on top of it that it is from the MDX. the other one states on top that it is the es330 not the 350.

trancemission

and this thread is almost three years old

Ruserious

iTrader: (2)

pnoi521

Uhmmm... that was back in 2004 bud. haha...

neuronbob

Way to bring back my old thread.

That event was SO much fun, though. I hope GM continues to have these events, and that they decide to come through Cleveland again...hopefully this time with the 2008 Caddy CTS. I'll be watching that one closely and comparing that to the next TL.

94eg!

It was a GM test-drive day a couple years ago that actually sold me on the TL. Out of all the cars there, it was the TL (5-AT) that we had the most fun in. Between the 3 of us, we drove the car 9 times around the cone course.

At the Vegas event, we were lucky enough to have use of an actual road course where the build & test Carol Shelby's cars. You had your choice to drive either the Vette (5-AT & 6-MT) or the the CTS-V (6-MT only). The CTS-V was a blast around the race-track. The best part was that we could all pile in and pull G's together. There was a professional instructor barking out orders from the passenger seat, but he really knew his stuff...

First choice: CTS-V
Second choice: TL (I now own an 05 SSM 6-MT)

Thanks GM...

Black_05_TL_6SP

The problem though, is it still has the reliability of a domestic car. Now the XLR, a corvette with a cadillac body. Is sweet!!! As much as I do not like GM, I am still drawn to the Z06, just something about it. They have come along way with the Vettes!

jose416

Question in a non bias answer which ride is better and why the acura tl or acura tsx VS 300 C??? can someone answer that cuz my buddie saying the 300 c .. and i say no... well i am a acura fan.. so any who can soemone answer tha plese.

leedogg

Good job using search but it probably would have been better to start another thread rather than resurrecting a 4 yr old one...people are more likely to answer your question rather than just read the original thread...

shooter

Just curious, are they still have these kind of events going on nation-wide? It'd a fun day event ...