TL Type S!? Black/White? Auto/Stick?
08-11-2007, 07:00 PM
#41
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That being said in a Black or White choice - Black. Personally I like my 06/6spd's Graphite for looking good & easy maintainance.
08-11-2007, 07:33 PM
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am i missing something, you guys are giving him advice after he has already bought the car and even posted pics of it..lol
btw, very nice choice man, i got my NBP 06 6spd TL last year when i was 19 too, too bad they didn't have a Type-S back then.
You chose the right color, black is the ultimate color for it and it looks like a dream. About the manual i was gonna say that it's going to be very hard to find since they are so rare, and i hate that becuase 3 days ago a friend of mine had to buy an auto cuz a stick was nowhere to be found!!!! pisses me off.
dealer logic: why get 6mts when we can't sell em? my logic: u can't sell them becuase you got the wrong colors, it's hard to sell a white 6mt cuz it appeals to very few ppl, the 6mts should only be black on black and mabe some silver.
buy yea, in my book your car is the perfect TL except 1 big thing and that's the transmission. You have an 08 already? wow, i didn't think dealers had em deliverd yet.
btw, very nice choice man, i got my NBP 06 6spd TL last year when i was 19 too, too bad they didn't have a Type-S back then.
You chose the right color, black is the ultimate color for it and it looks like a dream. About the manual i was gonna say that it's going to be very hard to find since they are so rare, and i hate that becuase 3 days ago a friend of mine had to buy an auto cuz a stick was nowhere to be found!!!! pisses me off.
dealer logic: why get 6mts when we can't sell em? my logic: u can't sell them becuase you got the wrong colors, it's hard to sell a white 6mt cuz it appeals to very few ppl, the 6mts should only be black on black and mabe some silver.
buy yea, in my book your car is the perfect TL except 1 big thing and that's the transmission. You have an 08 already? wow, i didn't think dealers had em deliverd yet.
08-11-2007, 07:52 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by AirJordan23922
and About the front plate.... if i remove it will there be holes?
08-11-2007, 07:59 PM
#44
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Not Really
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory
With all do respect..do you really think anyone outside this forum really even notices a TL on the street?
But my new 07 Civic NBP Si sedan gets looks all the time. This is a fact, not an
opinion. Makes me laugh
08-11-2007, 08:14 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by JD TL-S
People I worked with that know about cars loved my 07 ASM TL-S (modded)
But my new 07 Civic NBP Si sedan gets looks all the time. This is a fact, not an
opinion. Makes me laugh
But my new 07 Civic NBP Si sedan gets looks all the time. This is a fact, not an
opinion. Makes me laugh
The TL is a nice car but when they are knocking out 70-80,000 a year it sort of loses any kind of uniqueness.
08-11-2007, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory
A civic as a "look at me" car there is a new concept The TL is a nice car but when they are knocking out 70-80,000 a year it sort of loses any kind of uniqueness.
The TL is a nice car but when they are knocking out 70-80,000 a year it sort of loses any kind of uniqueness. I see these old corvettes on the street all the time...old timers, i guess some people like how they look, but with all due respect, tl-s is so much hotter. (i'm 20 not 65 like yrself, so our opinions obviously differ)
08-11-2007, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by vincethe1
I see these old corvettes on the street all the time...old timers, i guess some people like how they look, but with all due respect, tl-s is so much hotter. (i'm 20 not 65 like yrself, so our opinions obviously differ)
By the way depending on your definition of hot, visually the TL & the TL-S look pretty much the same to most people who are not Acura fans.
But if hot is a performance term the 502/502HP (8.2 liter) crate engine in the Vette is a bit hotter then the 213/286HP (3.5 liter) in the Acura, not to mention it has rear wheel drive to put it on the ground.
In fact the TL sort of fits between the BMW & the Ranger 4X4 in overall interest from us old guys. I did not include the old guy Yamaha because it does not have enough wheels.
08-11-2007, 11:17 PM
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yea, opinions on people differ a lot, frankly i respect these old cars and what people do to them (restore em, work on em), but to me they are really old and frankly simple carss...i am interasted in high technology and innovative stiff, frankly that "tuned" heavy 8.2 Liter engine only makes about 60 hp/liter, while the TL makes over 80 stock (which is not even all that these days), and even for it's size it's a lot lighter, more efficient, and more advanced (i.e. no pushrods)...
i understand that you like them and why, but atleast to me (a different type of car enthusiast then yourself), they are not what i like since i like percision and accurate performance, not just heavy grunt off the line and straight line drag speed. but that's me and not you, so i understand that you like them, it's just you and me are in different areas, i like high revs you like low end torque. o well
i understand that you like them and why, but atleast to me (a different type of car enthusiast then yourself), they are not what i like since i like percision and accurate performance, not just heavy grunt off the line and straight line drag speed. but that's me and not you, so i understand that you like them, it's just you and me are in different areas, i like high revs you like low end torque. o well
08-12-2007, 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by vincethe1
btw, is that 8.2L supercharged or n/a, cuz if it's n/a i'll give it credit for being really high performance for the old days.
Its just a plane old Holly 850 carb & a 9.6 to 1 CR. Aluminum heads help to keep the weight within reason, close to an iron small block. This engine will not over stress the rear end & can be better managed by the street tires. The tuned HIPO 572ci version also carbureted gets 720HP (80HP per liter) out of the crate as delivered from Chevy. By way of comparison the 427CI (7 liter) in the Z06 Vette gets 505HP with computer engine management, fuel injection etc.
As far as the Acura TL goes its a very nice car & is generally pleasant in what I use it for but not what I would consider a "precision and accurate performer".
It accelerates well, has as good top speed & good over the road gas mileage but its not the pick of the litter in its price class or size class any more. Except for bumping up the displacement in the "S" version development of this car has been stagnant since its introduction in 2004 & looks to stay the way till the 2009 version.
The torque steer under hard acceleration on the 1-2, 2-3 shifts is problematic in the precision definition, as is the poor clutch engagement & lag in the throttle by wire set-up. The good shifting qualities of the transmission, one of the best, are let down by the first three problems.
IIRC in addition to the mechanical limited slip in the 6MT versions the computer is also dialing back the power at the top end of both 1st & 2nd gears as a torque steer band-aid. In a stop light grand prix I will usually switch off the VSA so the computer & positraction don't fight each other. The posi alone is easier to deal with as you have better feel for what is going on with the front end.
When a car with front wheel drive is pushed through corners hard it gets very dodgy & cant be called accurate. Its a pretty good rule of thumb that as a front wheel car approaches 300hp it starts to exceed its level of competence. A big question in my mind is why they never went to either rear wheel or 4 whell drive in these cars.
BTW my TL has factory summer HIPO tires on it.
Right now I believe the best non-us brand performance package under $40K is the new Infinity G-37. Its just a bit off the BMW 335 in all measures but its a lot cheaper. That being said I will replace the 04 BMW 330Ci convertible with a 335 hard top convertible later this year as I like to have a convertible (had one ever since I was 17) & Infinity does not have one with a steel roof.
My 06 TL 6spd is not competitive with my current BMW 330Ci 6spd as a precision and accurate performer while the G-37 seems to fit between the 330 & 335 except for steering response.
Its interesting to note that outside of a few mentions about the release of the "S" version the TL has pretty much disappeared for all the performance sedan comparisons in the magazines. All the ink is going to the Infinity & its dual with the 335.
This market will get much tighter when the BMW 1 series 335 is released here (2008 or 2009 model) with a 300HP engine in it....sort of a poors mans M3
Bottom line for me is its a nice car I like it & will run it for a few more years, but I don't consider it a true performance car by 2007 standards. As for it being a head turner which was really what I got into the thread for there are just to many of them around here for people who are not fans to notice.
08-12-2007, 02:40 AM
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Forgot to post this. Does anyone have quality road test - magazine article etc, data with 0-60, 1/4 mile & skid pad G rating for the "S" type? Car & Driver did the regular 3.2 a few years ago & it would be interesting to see the difference in performance
08-12-2007, 03:53 AM
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i agree with you on some points, but since we were originally talking about american muscle cars, which one of them weighs 3150? (i.e. dodge charger, plymouth cuda, ect) The 8.2L engine itself would be a big hunk of metal as i see it, correct me if i'm wrong.
then, i have to sort of be an asshole here because every1 seemes to hate fwd a lot these days, it is honestly getting more bashing than it deserves. 1st of all, tq steer...i have tried myself not holding the wheel at full acceleration and it hasn't tq steered...and even if it does, what is the big deal with damn tq steer?? hold the wheel will you, if you drive agressive hold the car in control, it's never been a problem for me. then, the non-percisionness about fwd, not really, fwd even at it's limits does not mean a loose and joddly car, it's all about the suspension, understeer is not innacuracy, it's just opposite of oversteer, the steering in the tl is very percice.
another thing, bmw is not an option 4 me because i don't like the looks, the image, or the raliability. (and btw i cannot stand convertibles, but you're 65 so it's very normal).
the thing about convertibles is it makes them heavier and less rigid in most cases.
another thing the new 1 series is gonna be a 135 not a 335.
the 2004 tl 3.2 did an impressive 5.7 0-60 and a 14.4 1/4 mile, i've heard the tl-s is around 5.5 and under and 14.0 quarter mile (the 6mt).
the Drive by wire system i didn't like from the start, but as i drive it it doesn't seem to lag at all, and it helps the vsa a lot...although i drive with vsa off all the time.
people used to say fwd's limit was 220hp before, now they have the 290hp and i've driven a type-s and it doesn't seem to be inconvinient at all.
i know rwd is a better setup for performance, don't get me wrong, but fwd doesn't deserve what it gets.
then, i have to sort of be an asshole here because every1 seemes to hate fwd a lot these days, it is honestly getting more bashing than it deserves. 1st of all, tq steer...i have tried myself not holding the wheel at full acceleration and it hasn't tq steered...and even if it does, what is the big deal with damn tq steer?? hold the wheel will you, if you drive agressive hold the car in control, it's never been a problem for me. then, the non-percisionness about fwd, not really, fwd even at it's limits does not mean a loose and joddly car, it's all about the suspension, understeer is not innacuracy, it's just opposite of oversteer, the steering in the tl is very percice.
another thing, bmw is not an option 4 me because i don't like the looks, the image, or the raliability. (and btw i cannot stand convertibles, but you're 65 so it's very normal).
the thing about convertibles is it makes them heavier and less rigid in most cases.
another thing the new 1 series is gonna be a 135 not a 335.
the 2004 tl 3.2 did an impressive 5.7 0-60 and a 14.4 1/4 mile, i've heard the tl-s is around 5.5 and under and 14.0 quarter mile (the 6mt).
the Drive by wire system i didn't like from the start, but as i drive it it doesn't seem to lag at all, and it helps the vsa a lot...although i drive with vsa off all the time.
people used to say fwd's limit was 220hp before, now they have the 290hp and i've driven a type-s and it doesn't seem to be inconvinient at all.
i know rwd is a better setup for performance, don't get me wrong, but fwd doesn't deserve what it gets.
08-12-2007, 09:27 AM
#53
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My 67 Corvette is under 3200LBS with the 502 installed based on the Englishtown Raceway Park scales. The 34 Ford 3 window is 2475lbs with a 350CI/375HP small block Chevy.
The factory published weight for the car with the stock all iron 427 CI engine is 3150lbs. The 502CI engine is the same size at the 427 but not as heavy as you think since the top end (cylinder heads up) is aluminum. It is lighter then the 427 stock engine that the 3150 factory weight is based on.
On front wheel drive we will have to agree to disagree but no hi performance car I know of uses it...must be a reason for that.
FWD cars have had over 300HP for a lot of years but the torque steer has always limited their performance potential. Its not that you can't put 300+HP in a FWD its that you can't do it & have a well balanced package.
As for torque steer in the TL or TL-S I will take my personal thoughts out of the equation & maybe you can find one independent article that does not say its objectionable in the TL, a key reason that handling & steering feel is not on a par with the BMW 3 series or even the Infinity G series.
The 1-335 vs 135 thing - what I was trying to say is the smaller 1 series will have the 335's twin turbo 300HP engine as an option. Based on the 335's performance should be a excellent performer, quicker then the current 6cyl M3, at a much more competitive price projected to be $35,000.
Regarding the TL-S performance I was looking for some actual published numbers from some kind of independent test. I have a copy of the C&D TL test.
The factory published weight for the car with the stock all iron 427 CI engine is 3150lbs. The 502CI engine is the same size at the 427 but not as heavy as you think since the top end (cylinder heads up) is aluminum. It is lighter then the 427 stock engine that the 3150 factory weight is based on.
On front wheel drive we will have to agree to disagree but no hi performance car I know of uses it...must be a reason for that.
FWD cars have had over 300HP for a lot of years but the torque steer has always limited their performance potential. Its not that you can't put 300+HP in a FWD its that you can't do it & have a well balanced package.
As for torque steer in the TL or TL-S I will take my personal thoughts out of the equation & maybe you can find one independent article that does not say its objectionable in the TL, a key reason that handling & steering feel is not on a par with the BMW 3 series or even the Infinity G series.
The 1-335 vs 135 thing - what I was trying to say is the smaller 1 series will have the 335's twin turbo 300HP engine as an option. Based on the 335's performance should be a excellent performer, quicker then the current 6cyl M3, at a much more competitive price projected to be $35,000.
Regarding the TL-S performance I was looking for some actual published numbers from some kind of independent test. I have a copy of the C&D TL test.
08-12-2007, 09:39 AM
#54
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PERFORMANCE:
1967 Chevrolet Corvette Sting Ray
Engine:
435hp 427 c.i. V-8
Transmission:
Four Speed Manual
Axle ratio:
3.55:1 _ Mine is a 3.90:1
Weight
3,137
Acceleration
Sec.
0-60 mph
5.0
Standing 1/4 mi.
12.9@111 mph
Source:
Cars Magazine 05/1967
1967 Chevrolet Corvette Sting Ray
Engine:
435hp 427 c.i. V-8
Transmission:
Four Speed Manual
Axle ratio:
3.55:1 _ Mine is a 3.90:1
Weight
3,137
Acceleration
Sec.
0-60 mph
5.0
Standing 1/4 mi.
12.9@111 mph
Source:
Cars Magazine 05/1967
08-12-2007, 11:01 AM
#56
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Originally Posted by kolsky
It's the S-type that gets the head turning.......... it has the unique body style.
But my main question was & still is what makes the TL of any version a head turner when so many (maybe a quarter of a million) have been built since 2004?
Its just under 4 miles to the closest shopping center to my house & if I turned my head at every TL or TL-S is saw on the drive or in the parking lot I would have a sore neck by the time I went there & got home. At rush hour I would need a neck brace
Color is a very personal preference & I respect your choice but even in the sunny south I would never get a white car as I believe it hides the detail shapes that are sculpted into them. Got my first car when I was 17 & maybe 40 cars later have never owned a white one. Beige/gold is my next least favorite color.
08-12-2007, 11:16 AM
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TL
TL-S
Head turner
08-12-2007, 02:39 PM
#58
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This thread just proves no one cares about the TL 
or about me!! haha since were very off topic anyway.... and this is how you guys make me feel! haha jk
take a look at this lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7IxliAPjAk
or about me!! haha since were very off topic anyway.... and this is how you guys make me feel! haha jk
take a look at this lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7IxliAPjAk
08-12-2007, 06:38 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by AirJordan23922
This thread just proves no one cares about the TL
or about me!! haha since were very off topic anyway.... and this is how you guys make me feel! haha jk
take a look at this lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7IxliAPjAk
or about me!! haha since were very off topic anyway.... and this is how you guys make me feel! haha jk
take a look at this lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7IxliAPjAk
enjoy your car, it is a very nice car and i'm sure you realize it....the 60's cars can't come close to the smoothness, refinement, or vtec!!! lmao
08-13-2007, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by JD TL-S
YEP, Exactly. Crude, rattle traps. P.O.S.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
08-13-2007, 02:03 AM
#63
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Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory
I feel your pain JD - first of 10 pages on rattle traps.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=rattles
but it's ok, i think i should end this calm argument between me and you, so i'll just say this....i'm a 20yo, i sure as heck know that i can't teach a 65yo anything, because a 65yo should be teaching me...so i'm not arguing what you are saying, and i respect your opinion.
on the other hand, as i'm a 20yo it's doubtful i'll listen to a 65 year old about cars because you like how should i say: "old people's cars" (i.e. convertibles and classics).
so take no offence, you are at a point in your life that i know you have a lot of experience with all sorts of stuff, so i'm not going to argue with you on your opinion, but with that said, i'm not going to agree with it eather. peace.
08-13-2007, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by vincethe1
so take no offence, you are at a point in your life that i know you have a lot of experience with all sorts of stuff, so i'm not going to argue with you on your opinion, but with that said, i'm not going to agree with it eather. peace.
No problem, I don't hold your youth & inexperience against you. You seem from your writing to be a hi-tech is uber kind of guy. I am more pragmatic & go for final result regardless of the technology involved. I many cases Hi-tech just drives the price up without a matching gain in performance. The "S" gets you 18 more cubic inches for $111 a cubic inch. I have not seen any independent test results on a "S" so I can't really say if its money well spent or not for the 300CC's.
As for the specific comparison of the cars we are talking about the hole in the donut in your presentation is I also own & drive on a daily basis in addition to the 67 Vette a 06 TL 6spd & a BMW 330Ci 6spd Performance option. Its easier to compare these cars back to back in real life on the road then in ones imagination or from a fan club web site.
Here in North Raleigh the road to my house between Durant & Six Forks maybe a mile or so has some nice turns along with a few changes in elevation in the turns.
The TL is slower & less comfortable (control wise) to drive quickly over this section then either the BMW or the old Corvette. It is quicker through this section then the 34 Ford, the Pickup & the Explorer.
I know you are in love with "hi tech" but at the end of the day the technology is about getting the job done & some low tech cam in block OHV pushrod engines are running rings around the hi tech twin cam & four cam engines.
Two that come quickly to mind are the US Le Mans series GT1 class that is owned by the low tech Corvette. Cars like the Hi Tech Porsche are not even in the class being relegated to GT-2.
IIRC at the French Le Mans race itself the low tech Vette has won 5 of the last 8 races in GT-1 against the hi tech Aston Martin DBR9's, Ferrari 550 and Lamborghini Murcielago R-GT. The AM 007 won this year & the Vette was second.
Finally you may find this chart of interest. Lap times for street performance cars invited to run at Virginia International Raceway a 4+ mile road course by Car & Driver magazine. What is of interest is how the low tech, in some cases live axel low tech, cars did & the fact that the TL/TL-S was not even invited to run.
The cars are ranked by lap times not price
Corvette Z06 $77, 230 Lap 2.58.2 (first street car to break a 3:00 lap)
Porsche GT-3 $121,559 Lap 3.01.8
Corvette $56,056 Lap 3.03.6
*Lotus Exige-S $66,035 Lap?
*Audi R-8 $117,725 Lap?
Porsche 911 Turbo $141,510 Lap 3.05.8
Ford Shelby-GT500 $43,765 Lap 3.05.9
BMW 335i Coupe $ 46,200 Lap 3.10.5
Audi RS-4 $74,325 Lap 3.11.5
BMW Z4-M Coupe $57,500 Lap 3. 11.7
Pontiac Solstice GXP $31,096 Lap 3.13.5
Mazdaspeed-3 $24,650 Lap 3.15.0
Mini Cooper-S $ 26,170 Lap 3.22.9
*Overall finish position listed but not the lap times
Notice the combined purchase price of the first & third place Lo-Tech cars are just over $10,000 of the second place Hi-Tech car & $8,000 less expensive then the sixth placed car. Also the two FWD cars were last & next to last.
Best regards for a fun debate
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