vp911

I have heard from a couple people that adding the a-spec to the tl will give it the feel of the 5-series. I have doubts that is the case - the bmw is probably the best car i have ever driven. The steering on the tl is very "loose" for my taste, would there be anything that can be done to fix this? What else besides the a-spec can be done to get the handling of the 5-series?

I would just buy a 5-series; however, for an 15-20 grand it doesnt make financial sense to me right now, and I love the high tech toys that bmw will always be 3-4 years behind (IMO), such as an amazing navi system or bluetooth...

any comments would be appreciated :-D

Indecision

FWD will never be able to provide the same handling characteristics as a well balanced RWD. It's like trying to get a 4 bangers to sound like a Ferrari V12, the core harmonic is just not there.

vp911

True, and I would have to live with that, just hoping there might be some mods that can be done to make it a little more like the 5 series. I want FWD or AWD because I live in michigan with all the snow... now i dont know from personal expierence, but everybody says that RWS sucks in snow? :-\

Indecision

It's probably cheaper and less effort to buy the 5 series in the first place than to mods the TL so that it feels like a 5 series. If you want the real thing get the real thing, don't go for substitute. You'll never be satisfied. Just go out and test drive both car and see if you can live with the TL's FWD layout. If not you already have the 5 series in mind as an option.

With a proper set of snow tires there's no problem with RWD.

insmanblue

I agree with Vikrampatel. The Tl does have very loose steering and as a result the steering feels numb. I have a 2003 Mazda Protege and that car is a blast to drive. The feel of the suspension and brakes are set up just right. The steering is very communicative and gives the sense of driving a sports car.

I don't own a TL yet but I will buy an 05 when it comes out. I plan on buying the A-Spec suspension but my gut feeling is that this will only solve the floating aspect of the car but will do nothing about the numb feel of the steering. The power steering like most cars is over boosted. It would be nice if there is something that could be done to reduce the amount of boost.

BarryH

I've driven both. For aggressive driving, the BMW's composure is really apparent. But how much of your driving is going to be aggressive? For the day-to-day stuff, based on driving feel alone, I'd go with the TL. When you factor in a bunch of other criteria such as fit, finish, materials, and engineering, there's a reason the 5er is over $10K more.

vp911

Well, I do not want to buy the BMW, with the TL i can pay for it outright and not have monthly payment commitments (I am 19 yrs old, and yes I earned my own money, not parents, so dont try to start yelling at me for that please... I just got rid of my TSX because the dealer ruined my car when they did an oil change...failure to replace the radiator cap - god only knows why they needed to take teh radiator cap off for an oil change.. hmm oh well)

But with the BMW I would have to force myself into financing and not get the high tech toys I like. I without a doubt want a good nav system, and the bmw doesnt have it... I live on XM radio, and of course the bmw cant have xm and the nav, same with bluetooth...it is something I would want with my new car - not requirment.

I love the drive of the bmw, which is the only thing that I really care about for the BMW.... the interior of the TL IMO is superior in every aspect, everything being digital not analog is big for me... I hate the orange lighting in the BMW, I without a doubt prefer the blue ambient lighting the TL offers.

This is why I want to get the TL and have no payments, but I wanted to know if there would be anything to do to improve the drive of the TL in the future, I figure then when I have the extra money and time I can make a mod ere and there.

BarryH yes, I agree most of the time people dont have the spirited driving; however, when going to college I drive 45 miles each way, about 90% of the drive is non highway, full of curves, and no traffic lights...so I love the feel of the BMW...

so if there are any other things that can be done to improve the steering or any of the drive let me know.

DavePA

From what I read of your posts, you want and should buy the Bimmer. You will not be satisfied w/ the TL. I traded mine for the TL because of reliability and maintenance issues (do be prepared), but in all honesty.....I still miss the Bimmer. If you are experiencing this dissonance before the purchase, you will surely be unhappy afterwards, despite the techno-goodies.

vp911

Yes, on the other hand reliability is very important, I cannot even get a loaner car because I am not 21 yet, so if something were to happen to the car I cant go to class or work... so that is a reason I am pushed back to the Acura.

Aside from that, I should note I LOVED my TSX. I had a ton of fun driving it, and I want to make sure I will not miss that when going ot the TL.

GTFISH

The A-spec suspension helps out a bunch. Read my review I wrote earlier this month about the install and the transformation it made to the TL.

You can get a 3 year old 525 in the low $20K price range. Nice car but if you want a warranty ...

vp911

Yeah, I want to buy a new car, warranty is a must for me. I have learnt from some friends not to get a used car because you simply dont know how the previous owner(s) cared for the car. With my cars, I take them in for every service, I keep it clean, the whole 9 yards... but other people don't care about their cars.

Are there any other mods to the tl that can be done to make it more like the bmws?

neuronbob

I think the A-Spec suspension makes the TL's handling better, and it comparable to but definitely not quite as good a BMW 3-series. Even with the A-Spec, the steering is a little loose (though MUCH better than stock) and the car still never, ever, lets you forget you are driving a heavy FWD car because of understeer. The thicker rear sway bar offered by Comptech reportedly (will find out soon for myself ) makes the car much more neutral in handling, and makes more of a difference for 5AT cars (bigger jump in bar size) than in 6MT cars.

HTH!

P.S. Click on "rvw" next to "A-Spec suspension" in my signature below for my full review of the A-Spec suspension.

DMZ

One Aspect Overlooked So Far In This Thread are the tires! Replacing the standard Bullshitstone EL-42's with almost anything will give plenty of a performance enhancement. I'd be curious how a TL (especially a 6MT) with A-Spec, better tires, and the Comptech sway bar would stack up to a Bimmer.

longwood

If you are 19, no kids, I would definately go BMW. I just picked up a TL after driving a 1999 323i (sport package, manual) for five years. To me the difference is night and day. The BMW is a sports car and the TL is a sporty luxury car.

I am expecting my third child so I had to get a bigger back seat. Believe it or not three car seats will not fit in the back of a 5 series. I know becuase I tried every way possible to get them to fit becuase I really wanted that car.

The day the youngest can buckle the seatbelt by him/her self I am gettign another BMW.

My advise, get a nice CPO 330i and use the money you save to buy nice clothes for you and nice dinners for your lady friends.

The TL was the best of the other options out there by far. The only real compitition for me was an A6 and the money difference was not worth it.

Eduardo

Suggestion: for the price of a fully modded TL (A-Spec and new tires) you may as well get a 330i with the Performance Package. The price differential will not be too much. I was going to buy a TL but I might end up with a BMW within the next few days. The TL has more hp and is more high tech but nothing beats the handling of a BMW (it is smaller though-the 330i).

Just a suggestion.

BMW has included maintance and warranty.

If you have not children (like me) its a great way to go. The TL's handling is too loose.

vp911

Unlike many people, I LOVE the new 5 series, and I don't like the old designs, or even the 04' 3 series. As I mentioned before I am worried about the lack of technology in the BMW.... all the little things do make a big difference when you drive 23k miles a year (my case) but of course performance is huge.


I most deffinately ruled out the C320 as an option, so I am only really debating the bmw and the tl... now this all is going to be a loss if I don't win the lemon law case with infiniti... but i hope i do...

vp911

likely help me decide between the bmw and the tl... hmm lol

vp911

You make a good point with the tires, I have read horrible things about the stock tires... you honestly think the sway bar and new tires with the a-spec would be bwm handling? of course not exact, but close?

Eduardo

Yes, I agree with you the TL has great integration of high tech features, but look at the whole picture. There is no "perfect' automobile.

Besides, BMW's hold their value. I test drove a 2004 530i but that steering felt loose for me (I know I weird). If luxury and high tech features are your java wait for the 2005 Audi A6, it's less expensive than a 5 series (though it will be first year model).

A 5 series does give you the option of a head up display which is cool and the auto-leveling Xenon 'angel eyes' lights.

vp911

True, but I dont like the 3 series design, I am more of a fan of the 5 series (i know most people dont agree with me there)

As far as the included free maint for 50k miles, you are really paying for it in advance.

My concern is the price difference between the TL and 5 series, and then not having all the high tech toys that the tl has... and the other little things, like the MID, memory seats linked to key fob, bluetooth, touch screen... good nav, blue ambient lighting instead of the orange... im not a fan of the orange... :-\

Eduardo

...and I too love the new 5 series. Beautiful and very avant garde design!

The new 2006 E90 (3 series) also seem very beautiful. Too bad I can't wait a year.

vp911

I thought that the audi's didnt even have a real nav screen? If anybody wants to clue me in on Audi's reliability and everything, let me know please... save me a little research :-D

Thanks

Eduardo

Audi has been improving in reliablity. Although they still nose dive when it comes to holding it's resell value.

A fully equiped 2005 A6 will still be less than a fully equiped 5 series (using the 530i as benchmark).

How about a 2005 M5?

vp911

I agree, and the other thing holding me back from the BMW is that I would want the 5 not the 3 series...and I couldnt get it loaded... not within my budget... the headup display would be awesome... iw ould love it... :-\

vp911

Resale value is kinda important to me... but if its such a good car that I love it, im not willing to part with it....

haha wanna buy me the M5? or half of it??? :-D

Eduardo

Wait until the 2005 5 series start to arrive on the dealers lots (sometime mid-october). You might be able to snag a 2004 5 series at below invoice.

Eduardo

Yeah, I'll buy you a knock-off M insignia off Ebay!

Eduardo

Oh and by the way, the "throaty, lusty" sound that a 330i with the Performance Package makes is heavenly!!

vp911

na, i wanted nav, and when i checked a couple weeks ago there was only one 5 series navi on the east coast... so not gonna work... thought about that one though :-\

where can i get more info about the 05 A6..besides their website? e.g. i see a button for "tel" but is it bluetooth or a specific phone u must use like the benz?

vp911

lmfao

93SHOcar

Here is a suggestion from left field: At your age I would at least go take a look at an Evo. You can forget about the amenities but the performance is flat out amazing. You can have the wing removed to give a little more stealth but don't ever expect the Evo to ever fade into the background. Now that I am in my forties and my vehicle was going to be used on trips as well as a daily driver, the TL was by far the better choice for me. However, at 19 you owe it to yourself to at least get a serious test drive in the Evo.

vp911

Yep, a friend has one...but I am looking for a good blend of the luxury features and performance... of course there is not perfect car, so a littel of both worlds would be a good start... the tsx was pretty good actually...but not enough power for my taste... :-D

vp911

now that i am thinking about this... i might as well ask, when i had test driven the 525 and 530, the sales guy told me that if i got the Sequential Manual Gearbox I could choose manual or automatic... wouldnt that be the same as the tl's steptronic system? he said it was clutchless and everything... but on their website they offer the SMG or the automatic with steptronic...

anybody know?

Aegir

He may mean that the SMG transmission can be operated as an automatic or a manual. In both modes it is essentially a computer controlled manual transmission.

As far as an A-Spec TL 'feeling' like a BMW, I don't see it happening no matter what you do. The 6MT A-Spec is probably faster than a 525 or 530 because it does handle very well and has a significant power advantage. However, even if it is faster it will not feel like a BMW. Whatever you do to it, the A-Spec will still be a rather large, not especially nimble, FWD four door sedan with an inescapable tendancy to understeer at the limits.

The A-Spec suspension does help with the steering feel. I went with a slightly wider 245/40/18 tire, which probably increased effort a bit more too. I am now very happy with how my car feels and handles. It is quite fast and a blast to drive in the twisties.

vp911

Hmm so the SMG can be basically put in an automatic mode and it will do all the shifting itself?

BarryH

Steptronic is the manual control of the regular automatic transmission. It works pretty well, responds quickly, and gives the driver a lot of control. Steptronic also has a "sport" mode that makes the tranny shift more aggressively without any driver input. SMG is essentially a clutchless manual. Works great on the M3, and works not quite as well on other models. It does have an "auto" mode, but it's not as smooth as a traditional automatic. The next-gen coming on the E90 is supposed to be significantly better than the current non-M3 set-up.

vp911

hmm ok... thanks... ive decided that if i win the case against infiniti that i will get the tl, it just makes financial sense and overall everythign is good about the car...hopefully the a-spec, better tires, and the rear sway bar will makeup for some of the handling issues with the tl

vp911

any chance of geting a thicker steering wheel such as the bmw's?

93SHOcar

[QUOTE=vikrampatel]any chance of geting a thicker steering wheel such as the bmw's?[/QUOTE

Considering the airbag and all of the switches on the TL's wheel, I don't think that swapping steering wheels is a viable option unless you are willing to give up both functionality and saftey.

vp911

[QUOTE=93SHOcar]
I assume there are no aftermarket steering wheels that can be used with keeping all the controls and the airbag... correct?