TL_BLUE

hey guys, my TL has almost 50K miles on it and lately, I've found it to be performing kind of sluggish. Can you guys recommend anything that I can do to get it to perform as it did when it was new?

What are the dealer recommended ways of doing things to enhance performance, or at least get it to be "normal" again?

BustedJack

^ get an oil change, oil filter, air filter .. get them changed....
get your tranny fluid changed as well........ as far as I know... my vehicle ha 42,000 and still runs like a champ...

leedogg

your engine air filter might be a primary suspect. dirtier filter >> less air flow >> harder for your engine to 'breathe' and it feels more sluggish.

becker800

mine seemed kind of similiar. ill check my engine air filter as well..

Mike_TX

Suspect the gas, too. Many areas are requiring ethanol to be added, and it cuts down on performance and mileage since it has a lower BTU output than gas. Also, more areas are mandating oxygenated gas (additives like MTBE) in the spring, which also reduce performance and mileage.

When we switch over to the oxygenated stuff here, mileage drops by a good 10%, and now we have 10% ethanol added for the first time. The combo of both is pretty obvious at the gas pedal.

.
.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

i agree w/others- check the air filter.

csmeance

try seafoaming the car. It should be done every 30k

TL_BLUE

Thanks guys!! I recently got my oil changed (and ofcourse I assume they change the oil filter when they do this), so I would have to rule that out... I do have two questions:

1. How much should the acura dealer charge to change the air filter and tranny fluid?

2. csmeance: What is seafoaming?

ankur914

Suggest you do the air filter yourself - Filter costs no more than 20 dollars an auto supply store, and the job literally take 2 minutes......for the tranny fluid, i think they charge anywhere from 70 to 100 dollars using the triple change method descrbied in our owners' manuals (please correct me if im wrong ) ..Hope this helps!

Seafoaming is an engine treatment you pour into your engine and/or gas tank, to my knowledge, and you can pick it up at any auto supply store as welll. csmeance, please correct me if im wrong on this (ive never actually done it, just see the bottles at Pep Boys )

TL_BLUE

ankur, my fellow desi - thanks!!!!!!!!!!!

i will keep u guys posted after i have the air filter and tranny fluid changed and there is a difference in performance.

ankur914

csmeance

what about this desi huh, no recongnition... look under the name.... is see how it is, its cuz im brown.....


back to topic, pour in gas tank, oil and put tthorugh a vacum intake line for a quick blast of cleaning. Folow the instructions in the second gen second.

sunny201

WOW! i thought i was the only desi on here haha

Iceman23

nope, youre not the only one. poochakan inc. and malayalee king are also desis on this board.

anyway, as far as the performance stuff, i agree with the trans. fluid flush and change and putting in a new air filter, i just did it two weeks ago and noticed an improvement.

gauravp123

umm hello?

as long as you guys aren't FOB, its all good

Iceman23

lol all the FOBs buy Corollas man!

Tripnbeats

50k needs a throttle cleaning injector cleaning as well as the other elements already mentioned that the engine eats up and if you do your own oil changes check to see if the oil is thick or thin. its supposed to be thin. tranny fluid should be changed about every 20k. and I use the gm synchro

gauravp123

and DON'T FORGET at one point or other, EVERY DESI FAMILY or RELATIVE has owned a HINDU ACCORD

so, according to my name, which is in my username, one would think I'm "desi"

ussi

iTrader: (1)

manteuffel posted this writeup...i was thinking about doing this;

Check engine light bugging you? Look in here, this might help.
Hey,

Today, this morning, the infamous CEL came on. I was like WTF... this a 30k miles new car.
My '04 6speed is probably one of the early ones built since I bought it on Dec 03.
It's been at the dealer once for squeals and noises on the Brembos: they fixed and replaced whatever it was at no cost.
During that visit, I mentined that my car hesitated while accelerating during very light throttle conditions... they told me that it was fine and not to worry about it. Obviously, I kept on noticing the hesitation for a few more months until I decided to take the matter on my own hands.
I did got horrible MPG too, around 19-20 in city, 26 in hgwy. It was real bad for a car rated at 29-30 mpg. It got to a point in which I was getting better MPG on my Z06 Corvette than the TL in city driving... Another thing, the TL tailtips were black as you wouldn't believe it...

At any rate. I had har other cars in the past that showed similar symptoms and I decided to decarb the engine this past Friday. After I did the decarb of the engine the car felt much better, I mean, it came alive again, the da** hesitation was pretty much gone and the car mpg went up about 21 (from 19 or so)
Them two days later, as I was saying at the beginning of this post, the CEL came on. What I did? I drove down to the Advance Auto Parts store to have the codes pulled out with their scan tool.
Here are the codes that I got:
-random cylinder missfiring,
-missfire 1
-missfire 2
-missfire 3
-missfire 4
-missfire 5
-missfire 6
-oxygen sensor 1 bank 1 stuck on lean.
The missfire codes were history, probably from when I decarb the top end since I made it drink the seafoam until it stalled, so I wasn't too worried about them but the O2 sensor stuck on lean worried me a lot.
What does oxygen sensor stuck on lean mean? Very simple: it means horrible MPG, hesitation during acceleration and uber-rappy performance all over the powerband.
Why all that? Simple, because when the PCM sees a lean condition at the O2 sensors, it tries to compensate it and throws more gas to correct the lean condition, and the more gas it poors, the more unburned crap sticks all over the top end of the valves, heads and combustion chamber and less and less gets burned completely so its a vicious circle because those nasty uburned carbon deposits are like small sponges that absorbe the mist of air/gasoline mixture that is coming in from the injectors/intake. This means that the more carbon deposits are on the top end, the more and more gas gets trapped on the sponges and less and less actually goes into the combustion chamber so less and less gets burned and the O2 sensor sees that the mixture is very lean because all the gas, instead of going down to the combustion camber, gets stuck all over the carbon deposits. So, the O2 sensor is telling the computer to compensate and to send more gas, and that is therefore, ruining the MPG, the engine performance, the cats and who knows what else...
So, I inmediatly knew that the PCM had to be reset (not reflashed) so it can re-learn the new fuel trims for the carbon-free top end after the decarb so I told the guy at the auto store to clear the codes and reset the PCM... so he did.

After that, I drove around and my average went up from 21 to 24-25 mpg. The car felt completely different that after the decarb, no hesitation at all, smooth as it used to be when new... very nice.

So, you might be wondering what on earth a decarb is and how do you do it?

***Remember, this is an explanation is of what I did, so try it at your own risk!***

Here it is how I did it:
1)Go to the auto store and buy 2 cans of a product called SeaFoam... dont try cheap aerosol cans, get SeaFoam: it is the real deal... it works like a charm and you'll see it.
2)Go to a deserted location, you'll understand why later.
3)Pop the hood, remove the plasitc engine cover.
4)With a pair of pliers, open the clamp that secures the PCV hose. The PCV is the hose that goes from the left side (passenger) of the front engine bank to the left side (passenger) of the big aluminum intake manifold that is at the top of the engine.
5)Get a small cup or container, about half the size of a regular glass.
6)Fill it up with SeaFoam.
7)Get inside the car and start the engine.
8)Let it achieve operating temperature. (5-10 mins if it was cold)
9)When engine is at normal temp, pop the hose from the PCV, pop the end that attaches to the V, not the side that goes into the manifold.
10)You'll feel the car accelerating to compensate and you'll hear a loud hissing noise coming from the hose. don't worry, that is normal.
11)Take the cap and make it suck slowly the SeaFoam thru the PCV hose. very slowly, you don't want to stall the engine yet..
12)Go the 1st cup (not bottle) slowly and once its empty. reconnect the hose and fill the cup once again.
13)Pop the hose and sink the hose into the seafoam until the engine stalls. It should stall right away. <# DO NOT #> restart the engine.
14)Reattach hose.
15)Wait for 10 minutes.
16)Fill the cup once again.
17)Restart the engine, it will take several tries and once it does, there will be a lot of hesitation for a few seconds and after that, you'll be giving a new meaning to the words "smoke screen". In short, the fumes coming out of your tailpipes will be absolutely EXTREME... so, be prepared for that.
18)Let it sit for a few seconds and then, close the hood and take it for a spin. Make sure you do several acceleration runs, do slow progressive accelerations combined with hard ones. Drive until no more fumes come out of the back. The time might vary for you, depending on how much crap there is in your engine.
19)Repeat the steps 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 and 19 until the SeaFoam can #1 is depleted.
20) If still see a considerable amount of fumes coming out with just one can, let it rest for a while before you go with the can #2 and you'll need to get a third one as well.
21)Now, use a funnel to dump the entire SeaFoam can #2 into the gas tank.
22)After that, reset the PCM. Either unplug the battery, pull the fuse or have it reset at the auto store. Whichever way you want. Just make sure the PCM loses its memory so it has to relearn the new fuel trims. VERY IMPORTANT!
23)Enjoy the newly discovered power in your TL. Make sure you repeat this procedure every 5k miles or so, gas is pretty dirty around here.

Enjoy.

G.
________

TL_BLUE

hey, all you guys are awesome!!

csmeance: my bad man, I didn't read the "fine print" under your name haha - nice!

I am going to the dealer in one week, I will report back to you guys.

This Seafoam thing sounds interesting, I will give that a shot if the air filter and tranny oil change don't work.

Originally, I had planned to get rid of my TL in September (the lease is up), but I decided to give it to my little brother instead and now find the need to take care of it. haha

In the 3 years I've had my TL, I've really ripped it in terms of aggressive driving. So let's see what happens...

csmeance

^do yourself a favor and change the engine air filter yourself. Acura will charge alot of money just for remving 4 screws, pulling the old one out, putting new one in and tightening bolts again. theres a DIY in the 3g GARAGE.

TL_BLUE

So my TL is at the dealer, but I just got a phone call update and they said my Engine Mounts were broken... how does something like that happen?? Could that hinder performance?

I will have more info as it comes, but this is really freakin weird, no?

ankur914

Uhhhhh....I would go to the dealer and check it out just to make sure they are BSing me......cuz, that is weird......

TL_BLUE

but could something like that hinder performance?

i am definitely gonna check it out... anyone got any images of where the engine mounts are and how to actually see if they were repaired/broken?

TL_BLUE

and why would they BS me about something like that?

6spMike

Others have had broken mounts. It's probably not BS. Ask them to save the old ones, it'll be obvious if they are bad, the rubber will be cracked/broken. And no, they won't affect preformance.

TL_BLUE

thanks sandynmike - so this just happens as normal wear & tear or is this something particular to the TL?

i would ask them to save the old ones, but if they were BS'ing, I'm sure they'd have some old ones to show me anyway.

ankur914

Almost certain that they wouldn't BS you, but I've had too many experiences at Service Shops (not Acura or dealership) where they have tried to sell me stuff purely on the basis of their judgment of that I'm technically inept when it comes to cars....So, its my paranoia...I apologize if I freaked you out, but as sandynmike said, ask for them back or at least to see them . I should have thought my prior statement through more before making a paranoid response, simply because they would cover it under warranty and why would they BS about something like that...again, my apologies for a lazy answer. Keep us posted thou!

TL_BLUE

haha... thanks... and yeah, its under warranty.

i'm just perplexed as to how something like that would happen. Is it something caused by a sudden impact or is it something caused by normal wear and tear. anyone?

Chas2

Do you have to change the oil as a result of pouring all that stuff in?

6spMike

It's kinda normal, especially if you drive it hard. It is kind of odd to me that they fail this early, tho. You might want to search on 'engine mount' for more info. One thought is that they appear cracked, so they replace them, but what's cracked is paint or something, so they are not really bad.
The symptom for bad mounts is a clunk, or the engine moves excessively (like an inch or two) when you put it in gear (Auto) or start out (manual).

TL_BLUE

hey guys! UPDATE:

Got my TL back today, here is the service I had done:

- New Front Tire (previous one got a bubble in it via Holland Tunnel pot hole)
- Replaced Bent Wheel (I had a back-up, so didn't have to pay for a new wheel)
- Air Filter Change
- Battery Terminal Greasing (I had inquired about all this dried up battery acid/material built up on one of the terminals, so they just cleaned it up)
- New Front Brakes
- Tranny Fluid Replaced
- Engine Mount replaced

Obviously the engine mount was not something I knew about, so that was a warranty fix.

Now I have my TL back and it drives NORMAL again!

One thing I am wondering about is the tranny fluid... it appears to be the same color as it was before I had it replaced.

The 2007 TL loaner they gave me (with 11 miles), the tranny fluid was pinkish and "light".

But even after replacing mine, it appears the same as it was before, which wasn't bad or anything, but it was darker and just a little "smokey"

So my question is: With 48K miles on the car, the tranny fluid, even after being replaced would look like that?

I'm thinking maybe the tech didn't even bother with it. haha i hope that's not the case.

thanks guys!

ankur914

https://acurazine.com/forums/ramblings-12/home-audio-gurus-your-2-cents-please-your-reccomendations-158369/

Chas2

OK, I tried this, though it was in my 2G Legend. I could never get the motor to die sucking in the sea foam through the PCV valve. I used half a can but it did not die. Is that a problem? What happens if the engine won't die?

The smoke was so EXTREME it was comical. My neighbor came running over because he thought the house was on fire. I did it in my driveway, and a fresh wind carried the smoke from the back of the car and swept it over the roof of the garage. It was quite dramatic.

When idling, the smoke was blown under the car and coming out from the front wheel wells, it looked like the car was on fire.

Well, I did not want to repeat it after all the ruckus I caused in the neighborhood.

I guess I need to do it again in a deserted area as recommended so I use the full can?

TL_BLUE

Thanks Ankur!

RogeN2G

Could you explain maybe in more detail what exactly is sluggish, is it the tranny, or the engine, DO YOU here any weird sounds (besides rattles, one under my center consoles drives me nutts). In my opinion the air filter, oil change, and some other things that were mentioned will not be a big improvement that is noticeable, maybe on a machine or something that calculates down to the decicmal points may show an improvement, but even if you perform all those things, I don't think it will help, if you explain more, maybe can shed light on a bigger picture because TL are very reliable cars, either they Work well or Work BAD

just my 2cents

CAHobbs

Hey TL_BLUE, Ask them if they change the tranny oil only or did they drain the converter too or did they do a complete tranny flush? Ask about the Trans filter too

If they just changed the oil then the color is normal, unless they do a complete flush, there will be an enough residual oil left in the Trans and cooler lines to color the new fluid. This is especially true if they did not drain the torque converter (it hold a fair amount of oil).

A complete flush should have removed all old oil so it should look similar to when it was new.

Happy Motoring!

TL_BLUE

CAHobbs:

I believe they did a tranny flush, but I will re-confirm your above questions tomorrow.

But based on what Ankur posted about doing tranny oil changes:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158369

It seems that you have to do multiple tranny flushes to completely get rid of the old oil.

Is there something I'm missing here then? thanks!

CAHobbs

Hi TL_BLUE,

I checked out the link... From what I am reading , if you were to do this yourself at home and popped out the tranny drain plug, you would be draining just the trans and leaving as ankur914 indicates in the first drain, over half of the old oil. My guess is that it's siitting in the torque converte, cooler and lines. I don't know if the torque converter has its own drain plug, if it did, you could probibly drain another 3 quarts or so.

Unless you had the proper equipment to "Completly" flush the "entire" trans, including the torque converter, filter( unless it's changed), cooler and lines, it going to take a lot of "fill and drains" to clean it out. It's a matter of diluting the remainig old oil until it most of it has been removed.

There is equipment that can purge/flush almost all of the old oil and they require a far smaller amount of new fulid to remove any remaining of the old oil thats left.

From you statement on the look of the oil, I'd say they just drained the trans and refilled it and maybe a filter change. If it concerns you, go back and ask the tech what is their trans flush process.

I think I'll ask my dealer how they service the tranny next time I'm there...

If you find out, drop us a line, ok?

Happy Motoring!

ankur914

I believe the dealers use the "three drains" method to "flush" the transmission...also, the TL has no transmission filter (which I was surprised to find out...)...But it never hurts to ask the dealer how they performed their job! Keep us posted, im curious to see if they can use "flush equipment" on our cars as I have heard otherwise....