The TL Diet Videos
both for me and my car 
10-12-2009, 02:01 PM
#50
Safety Car
Thread Starter
NEW VIDEO 
0-60 MPH in 4.6 Seconds :gheywave::gheywave:
Speedometer close-up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKbxtyuMwus
Full View (as recorded)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwnKKNaNXXg
To save you the headache of trying to pause the video at the exact split second, here are some still imagines taken *directly* from the video. These still imagines taken *directly* from the video show how the Start/Stop points were selected. These still images were captured *directly* from the YouTube video using a video editing software, which allows stepping thru the video frame-by-frame.
Below, please notice the sequence of pics of the VSA indicator light.
As you can see from the above sequence of pics, I created the 0.000 (Start position) to coincide with the onset of motion. But, also trying to *not* include any rollout either.
Below, this pic shows how the needle appears when it is fully rested at a dead-stop.
As you can see in the pic below, I created the 0.000 (Start position) before the needle has moved.
Below, you can see how far the needle has moved in 0.067 seconds. Hopefully, you will agree that I picked the Start position in a fair manner and did not included any rollout.
Below, you can see a sequence of pics showing how I picked the Stop position. Hopefully, you will agree that I picked a conservative Stop position.
From the above sequence of pics, I picked the 4.571 seconds as the Stop position. Rounding off produces a 4.6 seconds ET.
------
SECOND BEST: 0-60 MPH in 4.7 Seconds ------Speedometer close-up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NEgh9SPx4U
Full View (as recorded)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u16wHgegoi0
Below, this pic shows how the needle appears when it is fully rested at a dead-stop.
As you can see in the pic below, I created the 0.000 (Start position) before the needle has moved.
Below, you can see how far the needle has moved in 0.100 seconds. Hopefully, you will agree that I pick the Start position in a fair manner and did not included any rollout.
Below, you can see a sequence of pics showing how I picked the Stop position. Hopefully, you will agree that I picked a conservative Stop position.
From the above sequence of pics, I picked the 4.705 seconds as the Stop position. Rounding off produces a 4.7 seconds ET.
------
FACTOIDS ------This was on normal tires, Michelin PS2. These are the same exact tires that I have had on the car for the past few months. Nothing (including chemical treatments) was done to the tires. The tire pressure was approx 30-32 psi.
My 0-60 times include *no* rollout. Most 1/4 Mile E.T.'s include some rollout (depending on the staging). Many consumer-level electronic performance meters are programmed to include some rollout too in an effort to mimic dragstrip timing methods. As a general rule of thumb, rollout will lower 0-60 times by approx 0.3 seconds. Again, my videos include *no* rollout.
For those unfamiliar with rollout, below is some helpful reading.
The Importance of 'Rollout' (click here)
For this second link, you need to manually copy-and-paste the web address because Acurazine is blocking it from being posted.
How We Test Cars - A Few Words About Rollout
www.XedmundsX.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=130988
REMOVE THE RED X
The timing (time track) within the video is super accurate. I won't bore you with the videos, but I did make videos of this stopwatch (pic below) using the same camcorder and same processing technique as used to make the YouTube videos. This was done to certify the camcorder. The camcorder matched the stopwatch, down to the exact same 1/100 second. I even extended the testing to a 60 seconds duration. And after 60 seconds of recording the stopwatch, the video (before and after processing) still showed the same time (time track) as the stopwatch, down to the exact same 1/100 second.
For the two videos above (recorded during the same outing), the weather was approx 56 degrees, 60% humidity, and overcast.
The two videos were recorded within approx 10 minutes of each other.
The road surface was concrete.
VSA was activated (normal default mode) for both runs.
Used a Sony Digital High Definition Camcorder (HDR-SR12).
"Sony Vegas Pro 8" video editing software was used to analyze the video (frame by frame), edit the video, produce still images, and to convert the video to the format needed for YouTube.
I made approx eight 0-60 videos during six days. The runs were very consistent, deviating approx 0.1 second between runs when the car hooked good.
------
IN CLOSING ------Take it for what you feel that it is worth. I feel that my method is as credible (or more so) as most other methods. The only potential source of error in my method is the speedometer needle inertia. However, I really doubt that the needle is lagging behind. I found my runs to be extremely consistent too.
Mythbusters uses this technique of analyzing videos to gather data, such as time and velocity. If it is good enough for MythBusters, it is good enough for me.
And hopefully we will not ever see this type of statement again -
Originally Posted by Anonymous
I will guarantee you no FWD car on any sort of street tire with any amount of hp is going to pull a sub 5 second 0-60.
Anonymous, Thank you for giving me the motivation to create this 0-60 video.
Thanks for allowing me to share my TL Diet Videos with you !!!
"I'll be back"... for more Salvation !!!
-------- The TL Diet: Woo Hoo, What a Ride !!! --------
10-12-2009, 02:27 PM
#51
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
NA FWD under 5...
10-12-2009, 03:59 PM
#56
Safety Car
Thread Starter
10-12-2009, 04:12 PM
#57
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
^ yeah but he's TC'd.. lol.. and only has one seat.
edit: Next suggestion.. Braking!
edit: Next suggestion.. Braking!
Last edited by Majofo; 10-12-2009 at 04:16 PM.
10-13-2009, 10:01 AM
#61
Former Whyner
Great stuff man!! I have always followed ur threads but seeing the vids all i can say is holy shit!
I bet your little gas light hates life
Keep up the good work
I bet your little gas light hates life
Keep up the good work
10-13-2009, 10:38 AM
#63
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Opel - Tonight, I can open the video in the video editing software and make a pic of the timer at 5 mph. Then we can easily find the ET between the 5 mph and the 60 mph (which we have already). Just curious, why you looking for the 5-60?
10-13-2009, 10:41 AM
#64
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Originally Posted by edmunds
A Few Words About Rollout
The term "rollout" might not be familiar, but it comes from the drag strip. The arrangement of the timing beams for drag racing can be confusing, primarily because the 7-inch separation between the "pre-stage" and "stage" beams is not the source of rollout. The pre-stage beam, which has no effect on timing, is only there to help drivers creep up to the starting position. Rollout comes from the 1-foot separation (11.5 inches, actually) between the point where the leading edge of a front tire "rolls in" to the final staging beam — triggering the countdown to the green light that starts the race — and the point where the trailing edge of that tire "rolls out" of that same beam, the triggering event that starts the clock. A driver skilled at "shallow staging" can therefore get almost a free foot of untimed acceleration before the clock officially starts, effectively achieving a rolling-start velocity of 3-5 mph and shaving the 0.3 second it typically takes to cover that distance off his elapsed time (ET) in the process.
We believe the use of rollout for quarter-mile timed runs is appropriate, as this test is designed to represent an optimum drag strip run that a car owner can replicate at a drag strip. In the spirit of consistency, we also follow NHRA practice when calculating quarter-mile trap speed at the end of the run. So we publish the average speed over the final 66 feet of the quarter-mile run, even though our VBOX can tell us the instantaneous speed at the end of the 1,320-foot course, which is usually faster.
On the other hand, the use of rollout with 0-60 times is inappropriate in our view. For one, 0-60-mph acceleration is not a drag-racing convention. More important, it's called ZERO to 60 mph, not 3 or 4 mph to 60 mph, which is what you get when you apply rollout. While it is tempting to use rollout in order to make 0-60 acceleration look more impressive by 0.3 second, thereby hyping both the car's performance and the apparent skill of the test driver, we think it's cheating.
Nevertheless, some car magazines and some automobile manufacturers use rollout anyway — and fail to tell their customers. We've decided against this practice. We publish real 0-60 times instead. But in order to illuminate this issue and ensure we do justice to every car's real performance, we've begun publishing a clearly marked "with rollout" 0-60 time alongside the primary no-rollout 0-60 time so readers can see the effects of this bogus practice.
The term "rollout" might not be familiar, but it comes from the drag strip. The arrangement of the timing beams for drag racing can be confusing, primarily because the 7-inch separation between the "pre-stage" and "stage" beams is not the source of rollout. The pre-stage beam, which has no effect on timing, is only there to help drivers creep up to the starting position. Rollout comes from the 1-foot separation (11.5 inches, actually) between the point where the leading edge of a front tire "rolls in" to the final staging beam — triggering the countdown to the green light that starts the race — and the point where the trailing edge of that tire "rolls out" of that same beam, the triggering event that starts the clock. A driver skilled at "shallow staging" can therefore get almost a free foot of untimed acceleration before the clock officially starts, effectively achieving a rolling-start velocity of 3-5 mph and shaving the 0.3 second it typically takes to cover that distance off his elapsed time (ET) in the process.
We believe the use of rollout for quarter-mile timed runs is appropriate, as this test is designed to represent an optimum drag strip run that a car owner can replicate at a drag strip. In the spirit of consistency, we also follow NHRA practice when calculating quarter-mile trap speed at the end of the run. So we publish the average speed over the final 66 feet of the quarter-mile run, even though our VBOX can tell us the instantaneous speed at the end of the 1,320-foot course, which is usually faster.
On the other hand, the use of rollout with 0-60 times is inappropriate in our view. For one, 0-60-mph acceleration is not a drag-racing convention. More important, it's called ZERO to 60 mph, not 3 or 4 mph to 60 mph, which is what you get when you apply rollout. While it is tempting to use rollout in order to make 0-60 acceleration look more impressive by 0.3 second, thereby hyping both the car's performance and the apparent skill of the test driver, we think it's cheating.
Nevertheless, some car magazines and some automobile manufacturers use rollout anyway — and fail to tell their customers. We've decided against this practice. We publish real 0-60 times instead. But in order to illuminate this issue and ensure we do justice to every car's real performance, we've begun publishing a clearly marked "with rollout" 0-60 time alongside the primary no-rollout 0-60 time so readers can see the effects of this bogus practice.
Last edited by Majofo; 10-13-2009 at 10:46 AM.
10-13-2009, 10:53 AM
#66
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Majofo - I am confused. I have *no* rollout in my videos. Why do we need to try to eliminate the rollout? Plus, why quote the Edmunds link to me? I linked it here in this thread already.
Last edited by Inaccurate; 10-13-2009 at 10:56 AM.
10-13-2009, 10:57 AM
#67
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I think Opel just wants to see a rollout run (~5-60).. to eliminate any traction loss and as a better comparison.
btw.. you're in exotic territory. Not too many cars out there under $50k run below 5, and none fwd.
I know.. I was reading the article and decided to paste it to those too lazy to read it in a new tab..
btw.. you're in exotic territory. Not too many cars out there under $50k run below 5, and none fwd.
I know.. I was reading the article and decided to paste it to those too lazy to read it in a new tab..
Last edited by Majofo; 10-13-2009 at 11:00 AM.
10-13-2009, 12:19 PM
#69
Not really. As long as there is enough power on the automatic it will be better off. Keep in mind, no humans can shift as fast as an automatic. It is the shifting time on the manual where you lose your time.
10-13-2009, 01:00 PM
#71
Team Owner
NEW VIDEO 0-60 MPH in 4.6 Seconds :gheywave::gheywave:
Speedometer close-up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKbxtyuMwus
Full View (as recorded)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwnKKNaNXXg
To save you the headache of trying to pause the video at the exact split second, here are some still imagines taken *directly* from the video. These still imagines taken *directly* from the video show how the Start/Stop points were selected. These still images were captured *directly* from the YouTube video using a video editing software, which allows stepping thru the video frame-by-frame.
Below, please notice the sequence of pics of the VSA indicator light.
As you can see from the above sequence of pics, I created the 0.000 (Start position) to coincide with the onset of motion. But, also trying to *not* include any rollout either.
Below, this pic shows how the needle appears when it is fully rested at a dead-stop.
As you can see in the pic below, I created the 0.000 (Start position) before the needle has moved.
Below, you can see how far the needle has moved in 0.067 seconds. Hopefully, you will agree that I picked the Start position in a fair manner and did not included any rollout.
Below, you can see a sequence of pics showing how I picked the Stop position. Hopefully, you will agree that I picked a conservative Stop position.
From the above sequence of pics, I picked the 4.571 seconds as the Stop position. Rounding off produces a 4.6 seconds ET.
------
SECOND BEST: 0-60 MPH in 4.7 Seconds ------Speedometer close-up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NEgh9SPx4U
Full View (as recorded)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u16wHgegoi0
Below, this pic shows how the needle appears when it is fully rested at a dead-stop.
As you can see in the pic below, I created the 0.000 (Start position) before the needle has moved.
Below, you can see how far the needle has moved in 0.100 seconds. Hopefully, you will agree that I pick the Start position in a fair manner and did not included any rollout.
Below, you can see a sequence of pics showing how I picked the Stop position. Hopefully, you will agree that I picked a conservative Stop position.
From the above sequence of pics, I picked the 4.705 seconds as the Stop position. Rounding off produces a 4.7 seconds ET.
------
FACTOIDS ------This was on normal tires, Michelin PS2. These are the same exact tires that I have had on the car for the past few months. Nothing (including chemical treatments) was done to the tires. The tire pressure was approx 30-32 psi.
My 0-60 times include *no* rollout. Most 1/4 Mile E.T.'s include some rollout (depending on the staging). Many consumer-level electronic performance meters are programmed to include some rollout too in an effort to mimic dragstrip timing methods. As a general rule of thumb, rollout will lower 0-60 times by approx 0.3 seconds. Again, my videos include *no* rollout.
For those unfamiliar with rollout, below is some helpful reading.
The Importance of 'Rollout' (click here)
For this second link, you need to manually copy-and-paste the web address because Acurazine is blocking it from being posted.
How We Test Cars - A Few Words About Rollout
www.XedmundsX.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=130988
REMOVE THE RED X
The timing (time track) within the video is super accurate. I won't bore you with the videos, but I did make videos of this stopwatch (pic below) using the same camcorder and same processing technique as used to make the YouTube videos. This was done to certify the camcorder. The camcorder matched the stopwatch, down to the exact same 1/100 second. I even extended the testing to a 60 seconds duration. And after 60 seconds of recording the stopwatch, the video (before and after processing) still showed the same time (time track) as the stopwatch, down to the exact same 1/100 second.
For the two videos above (recorded during the same outing), the weather was approx 56 degrees, 60% humidity, and overcast.
The two videos were recorded within approx 10 minutes of each other.
The road surface was concrete.
VSA was activated (normal default mode) for both runs.
Used a Sony Digital High Definition Camcorder (HDR-SR12).
"Sony Vegas Pro 8" video editing software was used to analyze the video (frame by frame), edit the video, produce still images, and to convert the video to the format needed for YouTube.
I made approx eight 0-60 videos during six days. The runs were very consistent, deviating approx 0.1 second between runs when the car hooked good.
------
IN CLOSING ------Take it for what you feel that it is worth. I feel that my method is as credible (or more so) as most other methods. The only potential source of error in my method is the speedometer needle inertia. However, I really doubt that the needle is lagging behind. I found my runs to be extremely consistent too.
Mythbusters uses this technique of analyzing videos to gather data, such as time and velocity. If it is good enough for MythBusters, it is good enough for me.
And hopefully we will not ever see this type of statement again -
^ No disrespect intended to "anonymous".
Anonymous, Thank you for giving me the motivation to create this 0-60 video.
Thanks for allowing me to share my TL Diet Videos with you !!!
"I'll be back"... for more Salvation !!!
-------- The TL Diet: Woo Hoo, What a Ride !!! --------
And I almost put an "at full weight" disclaimer on that statement. It still stands that a full weight 800hp TL won't do 0-60 as quickly as your lightweight car.
10-13-2009, 01:04 PM
#72
AZ Community Team
Join Date: May 2007
Location: N35°03'16.75", W 080°51'0.9"
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10-13-2009, 01:05 PM
#73
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
lol.. I totally missed that.. yeah I think everyone understood that the disclaimer would be a nearly stock fwd.
10-13-2009, 08:05 PM
#76
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
It would also be cool to run another 3G TL. Tons of Houston 3G'rs, shouldn't be difficult to have a meet and find a safe place to run.
i guarantee you i can shift faster than the automatic 3rd gen
10-13-2009, 09:38 PM
#80
Team Owner
Shifts are instant. As one clutch pack is releasing, the other is engaging. If it weren't instant, there would be a flare. In an auto, the planetary gears are always engaged and clutches are used to apply and release the correct set of planetaries. The fastest manual shifter can't match an auto.