TL #2 Car for Spoiled I mean Privileged Teens
12-09-2005, 08:58 PM
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TL #2 Car for Spoiled I mean Privileged Teens
Check this out, the 2006 TL is #2 on this list by Forbes, as a TL owner I don't know if I should be proud or pissed that spoiled teeny boppers will be driving the same car I work hard for
http://channels.netscape.com/autos/p...=au-main-01-l1
http://channels.netscape.com/autos/p...=au-main-01-l1
12-09-2005, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by whatjones911
These vehicals are just most "wanted" by teens not most teens driving in them.
In ForbesAutos.com’s quest to determine the 10 high-end vehicles most likely to be driven by these indulged teens, we compiled data from several insurers including America’s largest automotive insurer, State Farm. We also used data from J.D. Power & Associates to determine the 2005 average buyer's household income by brand and average age of vehicle buyers. However, because most parents purchase the vehicles for their children, J.D. Power & Associates' data on the average income and age of buyers does not necessarily reflect who is driving the vehicles. Therefore, we used insurance data obtained from State Farm for which teens are either the primary or secondary drivers on, compiled specifically for 2005 model year vehicles. We then found which vehicles were the most popular high-end vehicles for teens.
http://channels.netscape.com/autos/p...=au-main-01-l1
12-09-2005, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by acuranewbie
Hmm I don't know, this is from the intro to the article:
In ForbesAutos.com’s quest to determine the 10 high-end vehicles most likely to be driven by these indulged teens, we compiled data from several insurers including America’s largest automotive insurer, State Farm. We also used data from J.D. Power & Associates to determine the 2005 average buyer's household income by brand and average age of vehicle buyers. However, because most parents purchase the vehicles for their children, J.D. Power & Associates' data on the average income and age of buyers does not necessarily reflect who is driving the vehicles. Therefore, we used insurance data obtained from State Farm for which teens are either the primary or secondary drivers on, compiled specifically for 2005 model year vehicles. We then found which vehicles were the most popular high-end vehicles for teens.
http://channels.netscape.com/autos/p...=au-main-01-l1
In ForbesAutos.com’s quest to determine the 10 high-end vehicles most likely to be driven by these indulged teens, we compiled data from several insurers including America’s largest automotive insurer, State Farm. We also used data from J.D. Power & Associates to determine the 2005 average buyer's household income by brand and average age of vehicle buyers. However, because most parents purchase the vehicles for their children, J.D. Power & Associates' data on the average income and age of buyers does not necessarily reflect who is driving the vehicles. Therefore, we used insurance data obtained from State Farm for which teens are either the primary or secondary drivers on, compiled specifically for 2005 model year vehicles. We then found which vehicles were the most popular high-end vehicles for teens.
http://channels.netscape.com/autos/p...=au-main-01-l1
12-09-2005, 11:16 PM
#7
lol, i go to a priveleged school, im the only one with a tl
there are large amounts of bmw's (new 3 and 5 series), there are a number of porsche cayeenes, tons and tons of tahoes
the "priveleged kids at my school have the s500 mercedes, 355 amg's, m3's, porsche turbo s, 645ci's, etc
there are large amounts of bmw's (new 3 and 5 series), there are a number of porsche cayeenes, tons and tons of tahoes
the "priveleged kids at my school have the s500 mercedes, 355 amg's, m3's, porsche turbo s, 645ci's, etc
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12-09-2005, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Ka0tik
lol, i go to a priveleged school, im the only one with a tl
there are large amounts of bmw's (new 3 and 5 series), there are a number of porsche cayeenes, tons and tons of tahoes
the "priveleged kids at my school have the s500 mercedes, 355 amg's, m3's, porsche turbo s, 645ci's, etc
there are large amounts of bmw's (new 3 and 5 series), there are a number of porsche cayeenes, tons and tons of tahoes
the "priveleged kids at my school have the s500 mercedes, 355 amg's, m3's, porsche turbo s, 645ci's, etc
12-09-2005, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Ka0tik
lol, i go to a priveleged school, im the only one with a tl
there are large amounts of bmw's (new 3 and 5 series), there are a number of porsche cayeenes, tons and tons of tahoes
the "priveleged kids at my school have the s500 mercedes, 355 amg's, m3's, porsche turbo s, 645ci's, etc
there are large amounts of bmw's (new 3 and 5 series), there are a number of porsche cayeenes, tons and tons of tahoes
the "priveleged kids at my school have the s500 mercedes, 355 amg's, m3's, porsche turbo s, 645ci's, etc
Wow i never seen kids drive those, they do but its not their's, its their parent's car. No BMW's at my school. Theres a guy that just got a older model MB clk and me and another guy with a 3G TL
12-10-2005, 12:13 AM
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damn...im one of those spoiled teens 
i know something thats worse though, spoiled teens that are cocky, which i am not.
i dont like to show off my car, sometimes i would rather drive my 96 turbo civic out cuz its more fun
(that i saved up myself and bought)
i know something thats worse though, spoiled teens that are cocky, which i am not.
i dont like to show off my car, sometimes i would rather drive my 96 turbo civic out cuz its more fun
(that i saved up myself and bought)
12-10-2005, 12:30 AM
#11
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This thread invites social commentary :)
Wow. I don't get why parents would buy their high schooler a TL or a BMW. However, I grew up dirt poor so I don't even pretend to understand the privileged or how they think (even though I am now "privileged" 
). I had to go to college, four years of medical school, and five years of training after that to be able to afford my TL. And the only way my privileged child (due in May 
) will get an expensive car is if he/she pays the note.
I guess to some people, buying a TL or an M3 for their kid is just spending pocket change...nothing wrong with it, just different from my experience.
). I had to go to college, four years of medical school, and five years of training after that to be able to afford my TL. And the only way my privileged child (due in May ) will get an expensive car is if he/she pays the note. I guess to some people, buying a TL or an M3 for their kid is just spending pocket change...nothing wrong with it, just different from my experience.
12-10-2005, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by neuronbob
Wow. I don't get why parents would buy their high schooler a TL or a BMW. However, I grew up dirt poor so I don't even pretend to understand the privileged or how they think (even though I am now "privileged" ). I had to go to college, four years of medical school, and five years of training after that to be able to afford my TL. And the only way my privileged child (due in May ) will get an expensive car is if he/she pays the note.
I guess to some people, buying a TL or an M3 for their kid is just spending pocket change...nothing wrong with it, just different from my experience.
). I had to go to college, four years of medical school, and five years of training after that to be able to afford my TL. And the only way my privileged child (due in May ) will get an expensive car is if he/she pays the note. I guess to some people, buying a TL or an M3 for their kid is just spending pocket change...nothing wrong with it, just different from my experience.
What I resent when I see it is the attitude that the spoiled kids then adults sometimes have. They think they deserve the the things that they have for some reason and are better than the 'common' people.
I'm not saying they are all like that, just far to many. Nothing good came of most of the kidsI knew that were handed everything. Just my
12-10-2005, 08:14 AM
#14
Aaaarrrggghhhh!
Wow... times have changed.. and I'm not very old!...
My first 3 cars (all bought by me - I'm obviously NOT from money):
1) 1973 Volvo 164E ($600 - first year they had fuel injection.. yeah!) Was an embarrising POS in 1990, but I could afford it. It was 1 year older than me!
2) 1980 Toyota Celica ($500)
3) 1983 Nissan Sentra ($350) - lasted exactly 1 month till the engine siezed at a toll booth.
I would have been thrilled with ANY new car (even a Hyundai or other econobox of the time)... never mind a brand new high-end lux. make...
This is much more of a issue with parents than the kids who want it.
My first 3 cars (all bought by me - I'm obviously NOT from money):
1) 1973 Volvo 164E ($600 - first year they had fuel injection.. yeah!) Was an embarrising POS in 1990, but I could afford it. It was 1 year older than me!
2) 1980 Toyota Celica ($500)
3) 1983 Nissan Sentra ($350) - lasted exactly 1 month till the engine siezed at a toll booth.
I would have been thrilled with ANY new car (even a Hyundai or other econobox of the time)... never mind a brand new high-end lux. make...
This is much more of a issue with parents than the kids who want it.
12-10-2005, 09:12 AM
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I agree with the people who say this is not a normal list... it is one for the privledged kids... Westchester county is a very rich area... hard pressed to find a small house less than $1 million...
I bet if they made a list for ALL teenagers, you will get a Honda civic (used) or some old Cheby...
The sad part is that these parents are not teaching their children about money... you buy them a $75,000 Range Rover because the $40,000 Mercedes feels 'small'... you only make it hard for their future husband to satisfy them...
A general rule of thumb is you should not buy a car that is over half of your salary.. so this would mean that they should have a salary of $150,000 to buy the car.. I doubt very many teenagers make that kind of scratch...
I bet if they made a list for ALL teenagers, you will get a Honda civic (used) or some old Cheby...
The sad part is that these parents are not teaching their children about money... you buy them a $75,000 Range Rover because the $40,000 Mercedes feels 'small'... you only make it hard for their future husband to satisfy them...
A general rule of thumb is you should not buy a car that is over half of your salary.. so this would mean that they should have a salary of $150,000 to buy the car.. I doubt very many teenagers make that kind of scratch...
12-10-2005, 09:31 AM
#16
I used to frequent a Mercedes Forum (S Class) and some of the older guys who buy these cars for their kids had a great reason too.... SAFETY.
They said they would rather buy them an expensive car that would help them survive in a car accident. I also didnt feel it was right at first especially since someone young needs to understand how to appreciate the value of these vehicles.. but if you put yourself in the parents shoes, would you want your kid to be ok and less prone to a fatal crash?
They said they would rather buy them an expensive car that would help them survive in a car accident. I also didnt feel it was right at first especially since someone young needs to understand how to appreciate the value of these vehicles.. but if you put yourself in the parents shoes, would you want your kid to be ok and less prone to a fatal crash?
12-10-2005, 09:38 AM
#17
As much as I have always hated threads like these, I am going to chime in anyways. I know this isn't exactly a common thing - but what about those teens who actually paid for their TL themselves? My parents paid for half my used civic when I turned 16 and then I paid for the other cars I have driven. Do I consider myself privileged? Yes - but not spoiled. My parents didn't pay for my TSX, TL or the RL (granted I got most of the money back from each one because of the first being repurchased, second totaled and the RL at a price substantially lower than MSRP).
Granted, I know several teens whose parents bought them expensive cars. One girls parents bought her a new CL55 AMG because they wanted her in a "safe car that she liked" Well, she caused an accident and totaled it two months after buying it, and her parents said she can't get a car that expensive again. Instead they bought her a new LS430.
At any rate, yes, there are teens who drive expensive cars because their parents pay for it. But, I don't think it is fair to include those who paid for their own cars.
Granted, I know several teens whose parents bought them expensive cars. One girls parents bought her a new CL55 AMG because they wanted her in a "safe car that she liked" Well, she caused an accident and totaled it two months after buying it, and her parents said she can't get a car that expensive again. Instead they bought her a new LS430.
At any rate, yes, there are teens who drive expensive cars because their parents pay for it. But, I don't think it is fair to include those who paid for their own cars.
12-10-2005, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by vp911
As much as I have always hated threads like these, I am going to chime in anyways. I know this isn't exactly a common thing - but what about those teens who actually paid for their TL themselves? My parents paid for half my used civic when I turned 16 and then I paid for the other cars I have driven. Do I consider myself privileged? Yes - but not spoiled. My parents didn't pay for my TSX, TL or the RL (granted I got most of the money back from each one because of the first being repurchased, second totaled and the RL at a price substantially lower than MSRP).
Granted, I know several teens whose parents bought them expensive cars. One girls parents bought her a new CL55 AMG because they wanted her in a "safe car that she liked" Well, she caused an accident and totaled it two months after buying it, and her parents said she can't get a car that expensive again. Instead they bought her a new LS430.
At any rate, yes, there are teens who drive expensive cars because their parents pay for it. But, I don't think it is fair to include those who paid for their own cars.
Granted, I know several teens whose parents bought them expensive cars. One girls parents bought her a new CL55 AMG because they wanted her in a "safe car that she liked" Well, she caused an accident and totaled it two months after buying it, and her parents said she can't get a car that expensive again. Instead they bought her a new LS430.
At any rate, yes, there are teens who drive expensive cars because their parents pay for it. But, I don't think it is fair to include those who paid for their own cars.
12-10-2005, 10:56 AM
#20
I just wanted to clarify for those people who just assume that ALL younger people have their parents buy them cars as this always comes up in threads like this 
Speaking of this - apparently my friends younger sister just got her license and her parents are giving her the choice of any car under $50k.
I told her to get a good old honda accord.
12-10-2005, 11:26 AM
#21
Originally Posted by whatjones911
Wow i never seen kids drive those, they do but its not their's, its their parent's car. No BMW's at my school. Theres a guy that just got a older model MB clk and me and another guy with a 3G TL
no these are actually their cars, like my friend has a tahoe that has prolly 20grand put into it while his dad has a ferrari, and mom has a bentley
12-10-2005, 11:29 AM
#22
Originally Posted by acuranewbie
I think everyone would agree that there's nothing wrong with a young person driving a nice car that he or she works hard to pay for, in fact I know a couple of people who work two jobs to have nice rides, my only point was it makes me sick to see these parents who give a 16 y/o pimpled kid a luxury car
)i had to keep up very good grades during the school year, and then work during the summers since i was like 12....
12-10-2005, 11:45 AM
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Reminds me of this thread posted a while back:
https://acurazine.com/forums/ramblings-12/dont-mess-alabama-football-fans-115898/
https://acurazine.com/forums/ramblings-12/dont-mess-alabama-football-fans-115898/
12-10-2005, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Ka0tik
lol, i go to a priveleged school, im the only one with a tl
there are large amounts of bmw's (new 3 and 5 series), there are a number of porsche cayeenes, tons and tons of tahoes
the "priveleged kids at my school have the s500 mercedes, 355 amg's, m3's, porsche turbo s, 645ci's, etc
there are large amounts of bmw's (new 3 and 5 series), there are a number of porsche cayeenes, tons and tons of tahoes
the "priveleged kids at my school have the s500 mercedes, 355 amg's, m3's, porsche turbo s, 645ci's, etc
that's insane! i drive a 2nd gen TL, and i have one of the nicest car at are school. my schools loaded with integra's, eclipse's, civic's and such, normal high school kid's cars. there's one other kid that drives a newer 3 series tho.
12-10-2005, 11:49 AM
#25
At my h.s. (generally a upper-middle class area) most kids drove cars like civics - cheap cars) There was one kid who had a new H2 and one kid who had a newer c-class at the time. That was really about it for more expensive cars. No other cars like the TL in the over 30k price crowed. Most were actually under 20k.
12-10-2005, 01:20 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by vp911
My parents paid for half my used civic when I turned 16 and then I paid for the other cars I have driven. Do I consider myself privileged? Yes - but not spoiled. My parents didn't pay for my TSX, TL or the RL (granted I got most of the money back from each one because of the first being repurchased, second totaled and the RL at a price substantially lower than MSRP)......
I totally agree with you. If the child takes some responsibility for paying for the car, I have no problem with a parent taking up some of the cost as the life lesson is learned--you want something nice, you work/pay for it so you appreciate it more. But just buying it out of the blue--again, I don't disagree, just something I wouldn't do.
12-10-2005, 01:27 PM
#29
Originally Posted by neuronbob
Sorry to have dragged you into the discussion. I totally agree with you. If the child takes some responsibility for paying for the car, I have no problem with a parent taking up some of the cost as the life lesson is learned--you want something nice, you work/pay for it so you appreciate it more. But just buying it out of the blue--again, I don't disagree, just something I wouldn't do.
I totally agree with you. If the child takes some responsibility for paying for the car, I have no problem with a parent taking up some of the cost as the life lesson is learned--you want something nice, you work/pay for it so you appreciate it more. But just buying it out of the blue--again, I don't disagree, just something I wouldn't do.
12-10-2005, 02:49 PM
#31
The big picture
I empathize with some off the frustration from this thread as I come from a background as working class as possible. What nobody has mentioned is that buying a luxury car is a drop in the bucket to many of these well-off families.
There are families in the world where a child's ENTIRE life is funded. What's a freakin' car to folks like that?
I have worked for and with people that fir the description above, and I have not met one that would be described as 'happy'.
There are families in the world where a child's ENTIRE life is funded. What's a freakin' car to folks like that?
I have worked for and with people that fir the description above, and I have not met one that would be described as 'happy'.
12-11-2005, 12:47 AM
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I as well come from a very upper class area with kids driving brand new e46 m3s and such just because there parents have the money for it. But me I have a TL as well but I'm in a different situation, when i turned 16 I was driving an 03 accord sedan which i liked and i still have. But when i first got into highschool my dad had made a promise with me that if i get a full athletic ride to college he would buy me any car under 40 grand So i ended up getting an 06 Tl a year after as a 17 year old...In some ways I could see how you guys could think that is being spoiled but It is something i had to work really hard for it didnt come easy. I might not of paid for it but I saved my parents over 150k in college fees and such. I am not cocky about it at all and I treat the car like it is the world. So i feel like there are different situations out there and not everyone was handed a car.
12-11-2005, 06:20 AM
#34
Originally Posted by Ka0tik
^^^^^^^ thats just an excuse for not "privileged people"
12-11-2005, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by vp911
I have never been bothered with parents buying their kids cars, if the family is fortunate enough to do so, feel free - but I also don't think they should be spending money on lux cars like the TL. My parents had actually offered to pay half of my TSX. The civic was dying, and they knew I needed a car for commuting to and from UMich - so they offered to pay up to $15k, but I said no. I would rather have paid for it. Afterall, they pay for tuition. I guess their reasoning was that because I commute instead of staying on campus - they were saving that much in dorm fees.
vp911... first, let me congratulate you on 'paying your own way'... it is great..
This discussion is 'in general'... there are always exceptions like you and others posting here...
But, why would your parents not encourage you to SAVE your hard earned money for the future... we live in a society that does not encourage savings.. and YOU will need it because we old farts are going to make you pay for our social security and medicare now matter how much you squeel... would not a slightly used Accord been 80to 90% as good as a TL and saved money??
Now, if you are one of those teens that make gobs of money doing internet stuff or some other job... go for it... you made the money and can spend away... just my
12-11-2005, 10:06 AM
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I grew up pretty broke and went to an inner city HS. We were happy with just about any car we drove. I walk about 2 miles to school everyday sometimes if I don't have bus fare haha. But now I am in college, I do see alot of privledge kids with car pay by their parent, and everything else. But not all of them are spoils, a good amount are, but some actually work part time to help with the cost.
It all comes down to the parent and the kid i believe, I know a girl that has a IS 300 and an M3 and she don't pay for anything and even told me she won't try to find work since mommy and daddy pay her way, then there are those that want to prove to their parent they are adult and are responsible.
Usually the spoil one are the one with the 10 of thousand in debt also, no idea how to handle money.
It all comes down to the parent and the kid i believe, I know a girl that has a IS 300 and an M3 and she don't pay for anything and even told me she won't try to find work since mommy and daddy pay her way, then there are those that want to prove to their parent they are adult and are responsible.
Usually the spoil one are the one with the 10 of thousand in debt also, no idea how to handle money.
12-11-2005, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by bx-tls
I grew up pretty broke and went to an inner city HS. We were happy with just about any car we drove. I walk about 2 miles to school everyday sometimes if I don't have bus fare haha. But now I am in college, I do see alot of privledge kids with car pay by their parent, and everything else. But not all of them are spoils, a good amount are, but some actually work part time to help with the cost.
It all comes down to the parent and the kid i believe, I know a girl that has a IS 300 and an M3 and she don't pay for anything and even told me she won't try to find work since mommy and daddy pay her way, then there are those that want to prove to their parent they are adult and are responsible.
Usually the spoil one are the one with the 10 of thousand in debt also, no idea how to handle money.
It all comes down to the parent and the kid i believe, I know a girl that has a IS 300 and an M3 and she don't pay for anything and even told me she won't try to find work since mommy and daddy pay her way, then there are those that want to prove to their parent they are adult and are responsible.
Usually the spoil one are the one with the 10 of thousand in debt also, no idea how to handle money.
12-11-2005, 10:32 AM
#38
Originally Posted by Formula 350
vp911... first, let me congratulate you on 'paying your own way'... it is great..
This discussion is 'in general'... there are always exceptions like you and others posting here...
But, why would your parents not encourage you to SAVE your hard earned money for the future... we live in a society that does not encourage savings.. and YOU will need it because we old farts are going to make you pay for our social security and medicare now matter how much you squeel... would not a slightly used Accord been 80to 90% as good as a TL and saved money??
Now, if you are one of those teens that make gobs of money doing internet stuff or some other job... go for it... you made the money and can spend away... just my
This discussion is 'in general'... there are always exceptions like you and others posting here...
But, why would your parents not encourage you to SAVE your hard earned money for the future... we live in a society that does not encourage savings.. and YOU will need it because we old farts are going to make you pay for our social security and medicare now matter how much you squeel... would not a slightly used Accord been 80to 90% as good as a TL and saved money??
Now, if you are one of those teens that make gobs of money doing internet stuff or some other job... go for it... you made the money and can spend away... just my
OTOH, I do have savings. I know most people don't save (especially at my age) because they figure they don't need it now, but in reality - saving now is only going to help later. Aside from a retirement plan through the school district I work for, I have other savings from the other work I have done - primarily consulting for a few large web hosting companies.
12-11-2005, 10:37 AM
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I do not have a problem with teens driving an expensive car if their parents have instilled into them the value of money and respecting their and other's property.
The next statement applies to both teens and adults. The people I dislike are those that are arrogant and treat their property like crap because they can afford to buy a new one or should be treated special from everyone else.
This reminds me of an episode of the The Simpsons when Kristy the Clown tells his accountant to:
*) Pay Kenny G to play for me in the elevator
*) Put 10,000 roses on Bee Arthur’s grave
*) My house is dirty, buy me a new one
*) Put $10k on the Generals vs. The Harlem Globetrotters. I’ve got a feeling about this one.
The next statement applies to both teens and adults. The people I dislike are those that are arrogant and treat their property like crap because they can afford to buy a new one or should be treated special from everyone else.
This reminds me of an episode of the The Simpsons when Kristy the Clown tells his accountant to:
*) Pay Kenny G to play for me in the elevator
*) Put 10,000 roses on Bee Arthur’s grave
*) My house is dirty, buy me a new one
*) Put $10k on the Generals vs. The Harlem Globetrotters. I’ve got a feeling about this one.
12-12-2005, 09:24 AM
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I always wonder why these things get some people so worked up. The high school I went to had everything from Citations to ~$60k cars at it. Those with expensive cars had them bought for them, except for about two people...some people had their beaters bought for them...some people bought their own beaters...some people bought their own decent cars. Long before we turned 16, we knew who had money and who didn't, who would get a car handed to them and who wouldn't. Was anyone shocked or surprised when we turned 16? No. Was it a big deal? No. It's the way it was, always had been, and always will be.
Also, everything is proportional...rich people have the same things everyone else has...it's just the versions of what they have cost more...more expensive house, car, furniture, clothes...so, it makes sense their kid's cars are more expensive. I remember talking with my SVP about cars one day (he got a new 6-series around the time I got my TL). He asked me what I thought of the TL...after I told him, he said it was good to know as his son was turning 16 in a couple of years. Yeah, it burns a little, but his bonus is almost twice my salary...he's got it to buy his kid a TL, which I'm sure in his mind, is a cheap car and perfect for a 16 year old's first car.
Personally, I love my car and I don't care who else has one. Just like I don't care if little Johnny gets an M5 for turning 16. What anyone else drives doesn't affect me in any way, doesn't keep me from going to and from work, doesn't keep me from doing whatever, and it definitely doesn't keep me from enjoying my car. People need to quit worrying about what others have/do and worry about themselves and what they're doing. And little Johnny? He'll never learn the value of anything, but that will suit him well in his job as senator.
Also, everything is proportional...rich people have the same things everyone else has...it's just the versions of what they have cost more...more expensive house, car, furniture, clothes...so, it makes sense their kid's cars are more expensive. I remember talking with my SVP about cars one day (he got a new 6-series around the time I got my TL). He asked me what I thought of the TL...after I told him, he said it was good to know as his son was turning 16 in a couple of years. Yeah, it burns a little, but his bonus is almost twice my salary...he's got it to buy his kid a TL, which I'm sure in his mind, is a cheap car and perfect for a 16 year old's first car.
Personally, I love my car and I don't care who else has one. Just like I don't care if little Johnny gets an M5 for turning 16. What anyone else drives doesn't affect me in any way, doesn't keep me from going to and from work, doesn't keep me from doing whatever, and it definitely doesn't keep me from enjoying my car. People need to quit worrying about what others have/do and worry about themselves and what they're doing. And little Johnny? He'll never learn the value of anything, but that will suit him well in his job as senator.