Can anyone confirm or deny the following rumor posted at TOV ( http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-messa...ge%5fid=171763 ) ?

" I just purchased my 04 tL 6spd/Navi. I was talling to several of the managers and they informed me that all of the Cars they ordered with Navi were cancelled. They didn't tell me why. They told me they wouldnt have anymore Navi cars until Febuaury. "

Again, this is an unconfirmed rumor.

thanks,

Scott

 

just hearsay..


So a multimillion dollar dealership can't find out why its orders have been cancelled? Either that guy is really naive to the dealer trying to sell him a different car or he is a little bored and wanted to stir up some trouble by starting rumors.


Chad

 

Over on anouther web site, a dealer confirmed that there are supply issues due to high demand:

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According to the Acura IN network the Nav cars are going to be in short supply. Acura did not think Navigation would be as popular as it is so a lot of the cars that dealers ordered as Nav cars will be converted to non nav. It takes about 90 days to correct their under estimate so the nav car will be harder to find the rest of the year.

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I was told last month that my car was put back from November to December because they were having trouble filling all the Navi orders. So were the other 5 my dealer ordered. New Navi orders are February and onwards. I hope thy aren't going to delay it again.

 

Here's a quote from a dealer that's been sending me inventory info.
" I just wanted to touch base to let you know my current inventory, as well as some incoming vehicles. We will not have a large selection for the remainder of November, as well as December."
Don't know if it is related to the "hearsay" or not. And their inventories have dropped.

 

I have nothing to back this up, it is sheer speculation but...

I have a feeling what may be causing this is that Acura underestimated the demand for the Navi unit. I've heard that the production of the TL is 70/30, Non-Navi/Navi. If the demand for the Navi is higher than expected, then they have to increase production of the Navi unit, but that doesn't happen over night. The supply chain that provides the parts for the Navi has to increase too. These kind of changes can take a while to increase and catch up. Thus the delay on ordered TLs.

Also Acura could be redistributing the currently produced Navi units to go to markets with higher demand and thus we have dealers claiming their Navi orders were cancelled, but what has really happened was inventory was shifted to redistribute the available Navi equiped TLs.

Like I said, just speculation. But this has happened before with other brands where they underestimate demand. Unfortunately it usually has a bigger impact on the consumer. If demand exceeds production, well, we are screwed and Navi prices could go up.

 

Okay, there's a big difference between underestimating demand and halting production due to concerns related to functionality and the original poster missed this distinction.

Sounds like the original post was wrong .

Unless anyone has good information to the contrary, I'd let this post die.

-S.

 

*phew*,

I'm gald I got mine on Saturday then, I didn't want to wait until the middle of winter.

Ryan

Anthracite/Ebony - 5AT w/ Navi

 

IF this situation is true, then the supply problem is probably with the Navi screen itself. Does anyone know who manufactures that screen? I heard it was Fujitsu.

 

These same rumors were out and about BEFORE the TL came out, and I certainly got MY navi model in a timely fashion. Then it was the "limited production" 6MTs, which has turned out not to be completely true.

I put little regard into rumors unless Acura actually says something.

 

It is funny to see nothing has changed in the last 4 years.

 

Or perhaps another reason for the high demand of the TL-Navi is the fact that the non-Navi console doesn't look attractive at all. In fact, I think the non-Navi console of the the TL looks worse than those of Civics, Accords, etc.
Why did Acura have to split the screen into 2 again?

 

Makes sense to me bc I think the NAVI is worth the $ bc it is a NAVI, runs the XM, DVD, etc.

 

Cold be the DVD units themesleves. If Acura underestimated demand, which is very likely. I was one of a fraction of CL owners with Nav. But it seems that the 04 TL owners wanting NAv has really, really climbed. They've got Chrysler in there too. The same Alpine unit (not the screen) is in the Chrysler Pacifica. Maybe Alpine supply is the hold up.

 

I'm still confused. Are SOME of the orders for December navs being switched, or is EVERY nav slated for production in December being switched to non-Nav? If the dealer has already received a build date for a navi-equipped December build car, is that car "safe" or is it liable to be switched? How do dealers know what the current status of a particular ordered vehicle?

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm still confused about the specifics of this shortage.

 

My Dealer said something about them only able to ORDER like 18% nav or something to that effect....

They seem to not let the dealers order them right now because of demand...

Mike

 

My interpretation is that dealers will only be allowed to "order" a certain number of TL's with nav - if they try to order more, Acura will change the extra orders to non-nav cars. IOW, nav cars will still be available, just not as many as people want.

Gee, sounds familiar.

Golly, how hard would it be to walk over to the Accord assembly line, grab a few crates of nav systems, and wheel them over to the TL assembly line? So why doesn't Acura do this?

Because this is a game they like to play.

Odyssey, MDX, S2000, and now TL: every hot new Honda has been in short supply for the first few months. By some odd coincidence, this keeps supply below demand and props up the selling price. Dealers must love it.

But this is all cynical speculation on my part - I don't really know anything.

 

I can't speak directly to the rumor, but I can add some facts as I know them from two dealers in Phoenix. The first dealer, (the biggest Acura dealer in the city and one who got a lot of TSX's with nav when they first came out) hasn't been able to find a nav equipped TL on the build list and has not been able to do a swap with other dealers in the southwest for a nav TL. If anyone can get a certain kind of Acura, these guys can do it. They didn't mention any kind of build shortage or stoppage, but they did try to sell me the non-nav vesion of which they have a bunch. I haven't heard from them in two weeks. I bought my TSX from them and I think they would like the return business. The second dealer had a build date on Nov 28 on a navi with the color I want (Anthracite/Ebony) and penciled my name next to it. He said he would call when he got confirmation and we could deal then. He hasn't called back either (about one week). He wants my business cause he missed out on the TSX purchase (didn't have any) and I will be in a position to trade in my '01 MDX when the new MDX comes out, whenever that is. Anyway, from these two instances, it seems as if there imight be a shortage of build dates for the nav.

 

My experience is consistent with gotsand?. I put a deposit on a 6MT Anthracite/Ebony with NAVI on Monday Nov. 10. The car will also be built on Nov. 28. I called about 8 dealers around the San Francisco Bay and found one other car that that was going to be built on the same day. All the other dealers were saying the first available 6MT Anthracite/Ebony with NAVI would be in February.

I think there is a group of 6MT with NAVI cars that are going to be built in late Nov. and then they won’t make any again until February. Most of this build has already been sold and that is why the dealers can’t get the cars from other dealers. It is a supply and demand thing.

Also, the 6MT Anthracite/Ebony with NAVI that I put a deposit on is coming with the High Performance 17-inch tires.

 

You've never been involved in building things in a production environment, have you?

Maybe the shortage is synthetic to hold the price up, maybe it's real.

If it's real, "just grabbing a few crates of Accord parts" is almost certainly not an option. The basic nav system is a number of components not all of which are interchangeable, for sure. And beyond the nav system, there are things like harnesses, the trunk liners and the alternate displays and, in the case of the Accord (sadly, not the TL), different bezels and climate control panels. These all come from different supplier pipelines. These are all ordered and scheduled for "just in time" delivery of the necessary number of units per day or week, months in advance. Even if they were directly interchangeable basic parts, making more TLs with Accord nav parts probably means making fewer Accords since they can't make more Accords without nav since they don't have the alternate parts in the pipeline to do so.

These kinds of gymnastics are probably consistent with the flip side of the rumor: the mix of Nav/no Nav TLs will improve in February. That tells you how long the pipelines are that they have to readjust the production mix in. Assuming that the demand mix is the problem and they now see it's a problem, they've adjusted the "pull" (demand for parts) for February onward because that's how long it takes their supply chain to react.

 

I can tell you my TL 6spd Nav is sitting at the dealer and the only thing preventing delivery is a transmission problem (see comprehensive problems thread).

I believe they had some more TLs coming in today or tomorrow, but ICBW, so if you want Nav now, you may want to contact Acura of Brookfield, in Wisconsin, to see if they have any in stock or incoming. It seems like the shortages are regionally based, with those on the West Coast having more difficulty?

 

Actually, I have. The whole idea behind an assembly line is standardized, interchangeable parts.

Well, I'm not going to argue about this with you, because neither of us knows the true nature of the problem. Either of us could be right.

Let's assume you're correct. Now, if you were a Honda executive, and you had enough parts to make 1000 nav cars each month. Currently, you split these according (pardon the pun) to some formula; for the sake of simplicity, let's say the split is 50-50 (i.e. 500 nav Accords get built every month, and 500 TLs). Now let's suppose you could sell 1000 nav TLs per month if only you had the parts to build them. Which makes more profit for Honda, 1000 nav TLs and 0 nav Accords, or 500 nav TLs and 500 nav Accords?

I'm guessing the former. What do you think?

 

why doesn't Honda just yell at its suppliers and tell them to get them more NAV units. It's not like Navigation units are brand new to the market or anything.


I think that they should put them all in the TLs and not the Accords. If someone wants to spend the extra money for navigation than they would most likely be looking at the TLs not Accords.

-Chad

 

So go sit in a Navi and no-Navi Accord and a Navi and non-Navi TL. Look at the dash. Tell me how many standardized, interchageable parts you see. Like the non-Nav displays. The bezel. The heater controls. Four configurations, four bezels, five or maybe six displays, three bezels, three sets of heater controls. Or do you think those differnt shaped knobs and different bezels and different non-Navi displays are really the same parts for the TL and the Accord? And we haven't addressed the other parts like the harnesses and the mounting details and trim in the trunk where the nave box goes and so on. Do you think these are all the same parts in Accord and TL?
I didn't say your theory about artificially created shortages to skew demand and hold prices high was wrong. Just that if it is and the problem is a demand vs. production plan problem, they can't just decide today to rob Accord parts and make TLs. They don't have warehouses full of parts waiting to decide what to build today. They decided months ago, give or take very small margins, what they wanted to build today and the parts supply chain is reacting accordingly.
No doubt the former is true, if it were that simple. And no doubt in my mind that you can't determine the split on the fly since you have parts to make 400 Nav Accords, 600 Nav TLs and they aren't all the same parts.
The suppliers don't just "get more nav units." (Honda doesn't go down to Radio Shack and ask them to order up some more goodies from the big warehouse in the sky.) They make them. From parts. Some of which they have to order, in turn, from yet another tier of suppliers. And they make a different mix of harnesses and heater controls and displays for the non-Navi cars and on and on. Assuming Honda doesn't want to keep the Nav TLs in short supply, I'm betting they have "yelled at their suppliers". (Generally suppliers don't care about getting yelled at. They are used to it.) The result is that the mix of parts in the supply chain will change as soon as this change in plans ripples all the way through the chain.

 

Now go in the trunk. Look at the nav CPU box. Look at the DVD disc. Look at the LCD screen. Look at the microphone for the speech recognition. Some parts are 100% interchangeable. The whole issue revolves around which of these parts is in short supply. If it's one of the unique parts, then you're right. If it's one of the interchangeable parts, then I'm right.

We'll probably never know which.

 

You are missing my point. My point is not that some specific single part is in short supply and which part could that be, common or model unique.

My point is that the supply they have of EVERY part, common or unique, was determined months in advance to make a specific mix of cars. Change the mix and any part that's not common to both sides of the mix you just changed will be alternately short (for the models you want to make more of) and long (for the models you want to make fewer of) supply. Unless we're talking something like a spark plug or a fastener that some vendor has a big inventory of--and vendors don't carry big inventories of much of anything any more since it costs too much--this supply problem takes months to solve because it propagates all the way to the lowest tier supplier. All of this comes from buzz words like lean manufacturing, just in time, pull demand, and so on and is all geared to reduce inventory related costs.

 

I was told my navi model would be coming late December. Yesterday I was told I will get it by month end. Maybe they have re-jigged the production line?

 

This is my second Acura with nav. and I would not buy the car if it didn't have nav. My first car was a tl-S and the nav. on the new tl is just too incredible. Just used it this weekend to see my son in valleyranch in Irving,tx . His neighborhood is 2yrs old and I put in the address and it worked. I was so impressed how current the info is.

 

Just went down to Sterling McCall (in Houston) to see what they had...

Saw 4 6speed and at least one with Nav. Did not look to see if the others had nav or not as it was raining too hard.