The RR Journals: ATF
08-10-2004, 04:16 PM
#1
Not a Blowhole
Thread Starter
The RR Journals: ATF
Recent tests of synthetic ATF in the TL's transmission have proven that there are alternatives to Honda's Z-1 fluid. The test tranny was drained and refilled 2 times, to ensure a high concentration of Amsoil's Universal Synthetic ATF.
In over a week's time, and several hundred miles of freeway, stop and go, and suburban driving, the fluid performed flawlessly, unlike our experience in other Honda trannies with Mobil1 ATF. Note that Amsoil specifically recommends their fluid as compatible with Honda's Z-1 spec, and will stand behind their fluid if it can be shown that it caused a failure.
In the time the fluid was in use, the car averaged 26 MPG.
Amsoil's fluid is rated at 3X the typical petroleum based ATF's service life in the TFOUT test, which measures the resistance of a fluid to oxidation at high temperatures. Oxidized fluid/heat are killers to modern automatic transmissions, which have numerous valves, and do not like any blockages that might occur if conventional fluid is overextended.
Here is a link:
http://www.amsoil.com/products/atf.html
Here is proof that the TFOUT test is for real:
http://www.lazarsci.com/tfout.htm
In over a week's time, and several hundred miles of freeway, stop and go, and suburban driving, the fluid performed flawlessly, unlike our experience in other Honda trannies with Mobil1 ATF. Note that Amsoil specifically recommends their fluid as compatible with Honda's Z-1 spec, and will stand behind their fluid if it can be shown that it caused a failure.
In the time the fluid was in use, the car averaged 26 MPG.
Amsoil's fluid is rated at 3X the typical petroleum based ATF's service life in the TFOUT test, which measures the resistance of a fluid to oxidation at high temperatures. Oxidized fluid/heat are killers to modern automatic transmissions, which have numerous valves, and do not like any blockages that might occur if conventional fluid is overextended.
Here is a link:
http://www.amsoil.com/products/atf.html
Here is proof that the TFOUT test is for real:
http://www.lazarsci.com/tfout.htm
08-10-2004, 09:04 PM
#2
On the way!
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It is quite expensive, but it lasts much longer and takes heat much better. You're right - the life of a transmission is directly related to the heat it experiences.
Good info. I'm looking forward to hearing how it performs in the long run.
Good info. I'm looking forward to hearing how it performs in the long run.
08-11-2004, 01:01 AM
#3
Burning Brakes
RR,
Thanks as always for your useful posts. You seem to answer our questions before we even ask them
. Based on these findings, will you be switching over toe AMSoil ATF before long? I looked through both the owner's manual and maintainence manual and it seems Acura doesn't even recommend ATF changes unless you drive in severe conditions at which point you need to drain and fill at 60K miles and 30K thereafter.
RR, I honestly find it hard to believe that ATF can really last that long. I used to do the ATF service for my Camry every 30K and even then the fluid looked dark and dirty. And considering that fact that the 5AT has had a history of issues, I think I will take a serious look at the Amsoil ATF.
dsc888
Thanks as always for your useful posts. You seem to answer our questions before we even ask them
. Based on these findings, will you be switching over toe AMSoil ATF before long? I looked through both the owner's manual and maintainence manual and it seems Acura doesn't even recommend ATF changes unless you drive in severe conditions at which point you need to drain and fill at 60K miles and 30K thereafter. RR, I honestly find it hard to believe that ATF can really last that long. I used to do the ATF service for my Camry every 30K and even then the fluid looked dark and dirty. And considering that fact that the 5AT has had a history of issues, I think I will take a serious look at the Amsoil ATF.
dsc888
08-11-2004, 02:09 PM
#7
Registered Abuser of VTEC
Originally Posted by dsc888
RR,
Thanks as always for your useful posts. You seem to answer our questions before we even ask them. Based on these findings, will you be switching over toe AMSoil ATF before long? I looked through both the owner's manual and maintainence manual and it seems Acura doesn't even recommend ATF changes unless you drive in severe conditions at which point you need to drain and fill at 60K miles and 30K thereafter.
RR, I honestly find it hard to believe that ATF can really last that long. I used to do the ATF service for my Camry every 30K and even then the fluid looked dark and dirty. And considering that fact that the 5AT has had a history of issues, I think I will take a serious look at the Amsoil ATF.
dsc888
Thanks as always for your useful posts. You seem to answer our questions before we even ask them
. Based on these findings, will you be switching over toe AMSoil ATF before long? I looked through both the owner's manual and maintainence manual and it seems Acura doesn't even recommend ATF changes unless you drive in severe conditions at which point you need to drain and fill at 60K miles and 30K thereafter. RR, I honestly find it hard to believe that ATF can really last that long. I used to do the ATF service for my Camry every 30K and even then the fluid looked dark and dirty. And considering that fact that the 5AT has had a history of issues, I think I will take a serious look at the Amsoil ATF.
dsc888
Severe conditions applies to a lot more people than one might think. A lot of people are shocked to find out that Canada == severe conditions
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08-11-2004, 07:23 PM
#8
Not a Blowhole
Thread Starter
dsc888: Yep, I know what my babies need - good ol' rock solid info wi5th no BS, and no hidden agendas.60k mineral oil ATF? Doubt it - Acura goes for low TCO - they are not motivated for longevity. The smart owner either goes with a fluid that can go that long, and provides better protection and lower friction at the same time, or sticks with the Honda (Mobil) fluid. I agree that 30K is about it for conventional fluids - they have not advanced 100% since the "old days".
Aquineas: FLA_TLS is right - Red Line does not spec an ATF fluid for Z-1. And I do not think Red Line is as advanced as it was 20 years ago, when I started using it. Their base stocks are fine, but esters have their own issues, and the rest of the add pack is no better, and possibly not as good, as some others out there. The engine oil UOA's have shown some high copper readings, and no one has explained it to my satisfaction. Honda's main bearings are highly cupric.
Aquineas: FLA_TLS is right - Red Line does not spec an ATF fluid for Z-1. And I do not think Red Line is as advanced as it was 20 years ago, when I started using it. Their base stocks are fine, but esters have their own issues, and the rest of the add pack is no better, and possibly not as good, as some others out there. The engine oil UOA's have shown some high copper readings, and no one has explained it to my satisfaction. Honda's main bearings are highly cupric.
08-12-2004, 01:04 AM
#9
Burning Brakes
RR,
Thanks again. So do you recommend several drain and refill cycles to get out all of the old ATF? I hear you only get out about 1/3 of the stuff unless you do an ATF flush. And how soon do you recommend the switch over?
Thanks, dsc888
Thanks again. So do you recommend several drain and refill cycles to get out all of the old ATF? I hear you only get out about 1/3 of the stuff unless you do an ATF flush. And how soon do you recommend the switch over?
Thanks, dsc888
08-12-2004, 10:11 AM
#10
Instructor
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Synthetic ATF
RoadRage,
Hey I'm also an Amsoil maven and use it in everything that I own that moves. I have used about every synthetic out there for the last 20 years including Red Line, Mobil 1, Amsoil et.
You are correct about temperature's effect on ATF longevity. It is a major factor.
While during normal usage, not towing, racing et, petro ATF will go about 30K at best.
Synthetic ATF has much higher resistance to heat related lubricant breakdown and is a
no brainer when considering usage for longer life of the fluid itself and the tranny.
Ok, when the Amsoil ATF was changed did you drop the pan and drain everything except
the torque converter? ( half the fluid capacity). Or did you use the pumping tecnique and swap fluid where the ATF enters the radiator?
I have a local lube shop that has a machine that swaps ALL the fluid at once. They interupt
the fluid as described above at the entry to the radiator. The filter is not changed using this system. I am seriously considering going to the Universal Amsoil AFT at about 5K miles. As there is a recall issue at present, will probably wait until Acura puts oil bath or whatever in the trans. Don't know if my 39xxx VIN has this issue though.
Did you notice any differences in performance or shift points of the 5AT compared to the Honda ATF? I used the Amsoil in my Yukon tranny and sensed that the additional lubricity
of the fluid made the tranny a little less apt to downshift due to less friction and therefore
less pressure on the shift valves at a given load to instigate a shift. Of course this is a percieved effect on my part and could be my 58 y/o brain which has had some hard drive problems.
Nother question is which engine oil do you use? I intend on using the Amsoil 2000 0W-30
and have actually had to add some as my WDP/5AT/Navi as used up almost a quart in 2700 miles. I read 60% oil life left and it makes me a little uncomfortable as I usually change a new car at <1000 miles to remove the products of manufacture out. I am on the fence about the "special break in oil" and have a notion that's its bs. Not absolutely sure though so am going by the "book" for now but will probably comprimise at about 4K.
I'm looking for a place to put a Amsoil bypass for the engine oil as I have in prior vehicles but doubt that I can find the space or a chrome shop to make the unit look good hanging outside on a fender.<G> Yes I am ANAL about lubrication as you may have figured out by now.
Love my TL! Absolutely Zero problems in 4 months and almost 3K. Now I know I've made the gods take attention here causing the car to explode or somthing, but it just
keeps getting better. It will take me a year of astronaut training to learn everything
in the car but that another part of the fun in owning it.
Yours in excellent cars and lubrication,
Craig
'04 TL/5AT/Navi/WDP/Parchment
Rear lip spoiler
Body side moldings
Wood shft knob
After market backup sensors
Winter mats
Mud Guards
Falken Torque 5 Gunmetal rims
Falken ZIEX 512 tires
Hey I'm also an Amsoil maven and use it in everything that I own that moves. I have used about every synthetic out there for the last 20 years including Red Line, Mobil 1, Amsoil et.
You are correct about temperature's effect on ATF longevity. It is a major factor.
While during normal usage, not towing, racing et, petro ATF will go about 30K at best.
Synthetic ATF has much higher resistance to heat related lubricant breakdown and is a
no brainer when considering usage for longer life of the fluid itself and the tranny.
Ok, when the Amsoil ATF was changed did you drop the pan and drain everything except
the torque converter? ( half the fluid capacity). Or did you use the pumping tecnique and swap fluid where the ATF enters the radiator?
I have a local lube shop that has a machine that swaps ALL the fluid at once. They interupt
the fluid as described above at the entry to the radiator. The filter is not changed using this system. I am seriously considering going to the Universal Amsoil AFT at about 5K miles. As there is a recall issue at present, will probably wait until Acura puts oil bath or whatever in the trans. Don't know if my 39xxx VIN has this issue though.
Did you notice any differences in performance or shift points of the 5AT compared to the Honda ATF? I used the Amsoil in my Yukon tranny and sensed that the additional lubricity
of the fluid made the tranny a little less apt to downshift due to less friction and therefore
less pressure on the shift valves at a given load to instigate a shift. Of course this is a percieved effect on my part and could be my 58 y/o brain which has had some hard drive problems.
Nother question is which engine oil do you use? I intend on using the Amsoil 2000 0W-30
and have actually had to add some as my WDP/5AT/Navi as used up almost a quart in 2700 miles. I read 60% oil life left and it makes me a little uncomfortable as I usually change a new car at <1000 miles to remove the products of manufacture out. I am on the fence about the "special break in oil" and have a notion that's its bs. Not absolutely sure though so am going by the "book" for now but will probably comprimise at about 4K.
I'm looking for a place to put a Amsoil bypass for the engine oil as I have in prior vehicles but doubt that I can find the space or a chrome shop to make the unit look good hanging outside on a fender.<G> Yes I am ANAL about lubrication as you may have figured out by now.
Love my TL! Absolutely Zero problems in 4 months and almost 3K. Now I know I've made the gods take attention here causing the car to explode or somthing, but it just
keeps getting better. It will take me a year of astronaut training to learn everything
in the car but that another part of the fun in owning it.
Yours in excellent cars and lubrication,
Craig
'04 TL/5AT/Navi/WDP/Parchment
Rear lip spoiler
Body side moldings
Wood shft knob
After market backup sensors
Winter mats
Mud Guards
Falken Torque 5 Gunmetal rims
Falken ZIEX 512 tires
08-12-2004, 06:14 PM
#11
Not a Blowhole
Thread Starter
dsc888: re-read the 1st paragraph - i drained and refilled twice - that puts it at about 86% Amsoil ATF
Synoil: Excellent questions!
1) change in shift feel - no, and I think you have a slight misconception about synthetic ATF. Yes, it is more slippery, including a lower rolling resistance to itself (yes, heavy mineral oil poly-molecular fluids actually self-induce heat)! The reason is the friction modifiers added to ATF. Here is an analysis of the FM's generally available.
Dexron III: Low FM - sloppy, lazy shifts to give that luxury feel - it also results in the highest wear because of sliding surface to surface.
Amsoil ATF: In the middle - more FMs yield a bit tighter shift, possibly offset by the low friction of the fluid. Shift feel and points not at alll compromised in the TL. Reduced wear likely from both the fluid and the FMs. Easy 60k service life.
Chrysler ATF4: High FMs yiled tighter shifting, perhaps to offset that great D-C quality.
Race ATFs: dot not slip at all - lowest wear, tightest shifts, not practical or advised for TL.
2) Oil pan - there is no oil pan - this car has a transaxle and everything is internal. You only lose 3.2 qts of the 7.4 capacity, so two cycles of drain/refill are required. It is easy - I posted on how to do it. I can do it in 30 minutes start to finish, including the jacking onto 4 jack stands. I do no think Acura uses the transmission to cool the oil, it uses a heat exchanger that looks like an 8mm fil canister on top of the engine, near the ATF fill plug. I am wary of those "change all" operations - better do it yourself to be sure they do not mess up.
3) I use lubrication Engineers 8130 in all my cars. See the The RR Journals links for details.
4) You are incorrect about the break-in oil. I have also posted on that. It has high quantities of ZDP and molybdenum - Honda knows engines, and I would not second guess them. However, I have done a VOA of the break-in oil, and from that analysis I found an aftermarket equivalent to add to any oil you might want to use to change ahead of Acura's schedule - it is Valvoline MaxLife Engine Protector. It is scarily similar to Honda's factory fill analysis. Again, I have posted all my links to this work - all these questions have been asked and answered over the last year at S2KI.COM and here, and I simply cannot take the time to re-do all this typing over and over - hope you understand. That is why I post stuff I think is interesting and useful under the same standard naming convention:
"The RR Journals" That way, you and newbies can find what they want easily.
Hope this helps. RR.
Synoil: Excellent questions!
1) change in shift feel - no, and I think you have a slight misconception about synthetic ATF. Yes, it is more slippery, including a lower rolling resistance to itself (yes, heavy mineral oil poly-molecular fluids actually self-induce heat)! The reason is the friction modifiers added to ATF. Here is an analysis of the FM's generally available.
Dexron III: Low FM - sloppy, lazy shifts to give that luxury feel - it also results in the highest wear because of sliding surface to surface.
Amsoil ATF: In the middle - more FMs yield a bit tighter shift, possibly offset by the low friction of the fluid. Shift feel and points not at alll compromised in the TL. Reduced wear likely from both the fluid and the FMs. Easy 60k service life.
Chrysler ATF4: High FMs yiled tighter shifting, perhaps to offset that great D-C quality.
Race ATFs: dot not slip at all - lowest wear, tightest shifts, not practical or advised for TL.
2) Oil pan - there is no oil pan - this car has a transaxle and everything is internal. You only lose 3.2 qts of the 7.4 capacity, so two cycles of drain/refill are required. It is easy - I posted on how to do it. I can do it in 30 minutes start to finish, including the jacking onto 4 jack stands. I do no think Acura uses the transmission to cool the oil, it uses a heat exchanger that looks like an 8mm fil canister on top of the engine, near the ATF fill plug. I am wary of those "change all" operations - better do it yourself to be sure they do not mess up.
3) I use lubrication Engineers 8130 in all my cars. See the The RR Journals links for details.
4) You are incorrect about the break-in oil. I have also posted on that. It has high quantities of ZDP and molybdenum - Honda knows engines, and I would not second guess them. However, I have done a VOA of the break-in oil, and from that analysis I found an aftermarket equivalent to add to any oil you might want to use to change ahead of Acura's schedule - it is Valvoline MaxLife Engine Protector. It is scarily similar to Honda's factory fill analysis. Again, I have posted all my links to this work - all these questions have been asked and answered over the last year at S2KI.COM and here, and I simply cannot take the time to re-do all this typing over and over - hope you understand. That is why I post stuff I think is interesting and useful under the same standard naming convention:
"The RR Journals" That way, you and newbies can find what they want easily.
Hope this helps. RR.
08-12-2004, 07:11 PM
#12
Instructor
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Atf
RoadRage,
I have been looking into LE oils and they appear to be very high quality products.
I am not sure where to purchase these in Michigan. I will look again at the web site
for more info about the oils and where to obtain them.
Correct me if I am wrong but I am under the impression that ZDP and Moly
are anti wear additives. Adding more to a additive package would seem to
reduce wear, wear as a break in oil should allow a little wear to get the parts
inured to one another.
Thanks for all your great info on this forum.
Craig
I have been looking into LE oils and they appear to be very high quality products.
I am not sure where to purchase these in Michigan. I will look again at the web site
for more info about the oils and where to obtain them.
Correct me if I am wrong but I am under the impression that ZDP and Moly
are anti wear additives. Adding more to a additive package would seem to
reduce wear, wear as a break in oil should allow a little wear to get the parts
inured to one another.
Thanks for all your great info on this forum.
Craig
08-12-2004, 07:48 PM
#13
Not a Blowhole
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by synoil
RoadRage,
I have been looking into LE oils and they appear to be very high quality products.
I am not sure where to purchase these in Michigan. I will look again at the web site
for more info about the oils and where to obtain them.
Correct me if I am wrong but I am under the impression that ZDP and Moly
are anti wear additives. Adding more to a additive package would seem to
reduce wear, wear as a break in oil should allow a little wear to get the parts
inured to one another.
Thanks for all your great info on this forum.
Craig
I have been looking into LE oils and they appear to be very high quality products.
I am not sure where to purchase these in Michigan. I will look again at the web site
for more info about the oils and where to obtain them.
Correct me if I am wrong but I am under the impression that ZDP and Moly
are anti wear additives. Adding more to a additive package would seem to
reduce wear, wear as a break in oil should allow a little wear to get the parts
inured to one another.
Thanks for all your great info on this forum.
Craig
02-20-2005, 11:07 PM
#15
Instructor
Response to "The RR Journals: ATF"
To Road Rage,
Most excellent written protocols on changing the ATF on the Acura TL.
Thank you for your expertise on this subject. I have a question, does the Acura TL have an ATF filter? By the way, keep up the good information.
Most excellent written protocols on changing the ATF on the Acura TL.
Thank you for your expertise on this subject. I have a question, does the Acura TL have an ATF filter? By the way, keep up the good information.
10-10-2005, 09:31 PM
#16
Does anyone know where in retail stores can I find the Amsoil Synthetic ATF ? Is it only available on the amsoil website online? google search did not reveal anything either.
thanks
thanks
10-10-2005, 11:37 PM
#17
Does anyone read this
Originally Posted by scrb09
Does anyone know where in retail stores can I find the Amsoil Synthetic ATF ? Is it only available on the amsoil website online? google search did not reveal anything either.
thanks
thanks
10-11-2005, 01:53 AM
#18
Originally Posted by Road Rage
dsc888: re-read the 1st paragraph - i drained and refilled twice - that puts it at about 86% Amsoil ATF
RR.
RR.
I have enjoyed your Journals since I have been reading these forums (February 2005).
I think you will need to Drain & Refill at least 3 more times if we follow what Amsoil reccomends, the following from their website;
AMSOIL recommends thoroughly draining the transmission and flushing with new AMSOIL ATF to achieve a minimum 90% purity of new transmission fluid.
I have calculated that it will need more then 4 Drain & Refills to reach this 90%.
As we all know, we only drain 3.2qt from the Transmission 7.4qt capacity at one time. This represents a 43.243% fluid change at every Drain & Refill.
Assuming that a prefect mix of the Amsoil Synthetic Fluid with Honda Fluid between the repeated Drain & Refills, here is my calculations;
After the 1st Drain & Refill
3.2qts Synth (43.24%) & 4.2qts Honda (56.76%)
2nd Drain will flush another 3.2qts but only 43.243% of that (1.82qts) will be the Honda fluid concentration in the drain.
After the 2nd Drain & Refill
5.02qts Synth (67.84%) & 2.38qts Honda (32.16%)
After the 3rd Drain % Refill (Using the same calculations as the 2nd Drain)
6.05qts Synth (81.76%) & 1.35qts Honda (18.24%)
After the 4th Drain & Refill
6.63qts Synth (89.59%) & 0.77qt Honda (10.41%)
After the 5th Drain % Refill
6.96qts Synth (94.05%) & 0.44qt Honda (5.95%)
So basically, to attain what Amsoil prescribes (90% Synth), we will need to Drain & Refill 5 times and will need 16 quarts to do it.
Best regards
frenchnew
10-11-2005, 05:31 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by scrb09
Does anyone know where in retail stores can I find the Amsoil Synthetic ATF ? Is it only available on the amsoil website online? google search did not reveal anything either.
thanks
thanks
Cheers,
Don
10-11-2005, 08:53 AM
#20
All this is good stuff. Just keep in mind that you have to make sure that acura will not come back and tell you that you were not using what they require for tranny oil. Also keep in mind that it seems that the AT is not as bullet proof as it should be. For this reason I would have it drained and refilled annually and flushed every other year. To me this is excessive since the ATs I have had in the past were done every 50K and it was just a drain and refill.
10-11-2005, 01:10 PM
#21
Originally Posted by frenchnew
Dear RR
I have enjoyed your Journals since I have been reading these forums (February 2005).
I think you will need to Drain & Refill at least 3 more times if we follow what Amsoil reccomends, the following from their website;
AMSOIL recommends thoroughly draining the transmission and flushing with new AMSOIL ATF to achieve a minimum 90% purity of new transmission fluid.
I have calculated that it will need more then 4 Drain & Refills to reach this 90%.
As we all know, we only drain 3.2qt from the Transmission 7.4qt capacity at one time. This represents a 43.243% fluid change at every Drain & Refill.
Assuming that a prefect mix of the Amsoil Synthetic Fluid with Honda Fluid between the repeated Drain & Refills, here is my calculations;
After the 1st Drain & Refill
3.2qts Synth (43.24%) & 4.2qts Honda (56.76%)
2nd Drain will flush another 3.2qts but only 43.243% of that (1.82qts) will be the Honda fluid concentration in the drain.
After the 2nd Drain & Refill
5.02qts Synth (67.84%) & 2.38qts Honda (32.16%)
After the 3rd Drain % Refill (Using the same calculations as the 2nd Drain)
6.05qts Synth (81.76%) & 1.35qts Honda (18.24%)
After the 4th Drain & Refill
6.63qts Synth (89.59%) & 0.77qt Honda (10.41%)
After the 5th Drain % Refill
6.96qts Synth (94.05%) & 0.44qt Honda (5.95%)
So basically, to attain what Amsoil prescribes (90% Synth), we will need to Drain & Refill 5 times and will need 16 quarts to do it.
Best regards
frenchnew
I have enjoyed your Journals since I have been reading these forums (February 2005).
I think you will need to Drain & Refill at least 3 more times if we follow what Amsoil reccomends, the following from their website;
AMSOIL recommends thoroughly draining the transmission and flushing with new AMSOIL ATF to achieve a minimum 90% purity of new transmission fluid.
I have calculated that it will need more then 4 Drain & Refills to reach this 90%.
As we all know, we only drain 3.2qt from the Transmission 7.4qt capacity at one time. This represents a 43.243% fluid change at every Drain & Refill.
Assuming that a prefect mix of the Amsoil Synthetic Fluid with Honda Fluid between the repeated Drain & Refills, here is my calculations;
After the 1st Drain & Refill
3.2qts Synth (43.24%) & 4.2qts Honda (56.76%)
2nd Drain will flush another 3.2qts but only 43.243% of that (1.82qts) will be the Honda fluid concentration in the drain.
After the 2nd Drain & Refill
5.02qts Synth (67.84%) & 2.38qts Honda (32.16%)
After the 3rd Drain % Refill (Using the same calculations as the 2nd Drain)
6.05qts Synth (81.76%) & 1.35qts Honda (18.24%)
After the 4th Drain & Refill
6.63qts Synth (89.59%) & 0.77qt Honda (10.41%)
After the 5th Drain % Refill
6.96qts Synth (94.05%) & 0.44qt Honda (5.95%)
So basically, to attain what Amsoil prescribes (90% Synth), we will need to Drain & Refill 5 times and will need 16 quarts to do it.
Best regards
frenchnew
not sure if I am that anal to do 5 drain/refills atleast in a short period, but I am curious to find out how long to wait between these repititions...(i.e. drive a few hundred miles before doing the next drain/refill or just let the car run for a few minutes and then do the next one)thanks.
10-11-2005, 02:52 PM
#22
Moderator
Try This for ATF
I think that Amsoil makes a decent product, but Specialty Formulations has done a better job in reverse-engineering the fluid.
www.specialtyformulations.com If I recall correctly, they charge $7/qt when you buy 8 quarts or more, its special order (brewed to order
).
Some people on BITOG along with Terry have said that the Specialty Formulations fluid shifts better than the Honda fluid. (To what extent I don't know)
Mike
I think that Amsoil makes a decent product, but Specialty Formulations has done a better job in reverse-engineering the fluid.
www.specialtyformulations.com If I recall correctly, they charge $7/qt when you buy 8 quarts or more, its special order (brewed to order
).Some people on BITOG along with Terry have said that the Specialty Formulations fluid shifts better than the Honda fluid. (To what extent I don't know)
Mike
10-15-2005, 04:54 PM
#23
Not a Blowhole
Thread Starter
The TL transmisssion has an internal filter - it is not serviceable without a tear-down.
I know MW loves Specialty Formulations, but do they underwrite any damage caused by their fluid as Amsoil claims they will? Something to consider.
I know MW loves Specialty Formulations, but do they underwrite any damage caused by their fluid as Amsoil claims they will? Something to consider.
10-21-2005, 02:20 PM
#25
Originally Posted by Donte99TL
I would like to know also.
10-21-2005, 04:27 PM
#26
Originally Posted by scrb09
So I am guessing this ATF is not available in Retail...I only see it online on Amsoil's website or on google search with some wholesale buy site...
Amsoil is sold by they network of distributors.
I did a small search and came up for the following according to your information,
Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants
(919) 847-5923 Cross Street:
224 Killington Dr Between Windham Dr and Whittier Dr
Raleigh, NC 27609
Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants
(919) 870-9633 Cross Street:
9424 Springdale Dr Between Trail Ridge Dr and Field And Stream Rd
Raleigh, NC 27613
You can also order it directly from Amsoil and if you sign up to becaome a preferred customer, you will get a discount.
Best regards from Montreal, Canada
frenchnew
10-21-2005, 06:33 PM
#27
Moderator
Originally Posted by frenchnew
Dear scrb09,
Amsoil is sold by they network of distributors.
I did a small search and came up for the following according to your information,
Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants
(919) 847-5923 Cross Street:
224 Killington Dr Between Windham Dr and Whittier Dr
Raleigh, NC 27609
Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants
(919) 870-9633 Cross Street:
9424 Springdale Dr Between Trail Ridge Dr and Field And Stream Rd
Raleigh, NC 27613
You can also order it directly from Amsoil and if you sign up to becaome a preferred customer, you will get a discount.
Best regards from Montreal, Canada
frenchnew
Amsoil is sold by they network of distributors.
I did a small search and came up for the following according to your information,
Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants
(919) 847-5923 Cross Street:
224 Killington Dr Between Windham Dr and Whittier Dr
Raleigh, NC 27609
Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants
(919) 870-9633 Cross Street:
9424 Springdale Dr Between Trail Ridge Dr and Field And Stream Rd
Raleigh, NC 27613
You can also order it directly from Amsoil and if you sign up to becaome a preferred customer, you will get a discount.
Best regards from Montreal, Canada
frenchnew
Amsoil products are sometimes found in some retail stores, but most of the time have to be ordered from Amsoil directly.
Yes, the wholesale price is much less than the retail, and you should NOT have to buy the preferred customer membership to receive a discount. Any half decent dealer should sell it to you at wholesale cost if you make a $50 order or so, or at least pay the preferred membership cost for you.
Mike
10-22-2005, 05:39 PM
#28
Originally Posted by frenchnew
Dear scrb09,
Amsoil is sold by they network of distributors.
I did a small search and came up for the following according to your information,
Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants
(919) 847-5923 Cross Street:
224 Killington Dr Between Windham Dr and Whittier Dr
Raleigh, NC 27609
Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants
(919) 870-9633 Cross Street:
9424 Springdale Dr Between Trail Ridge Dr and Field And Stream Rd
Raleigh, NC 27613
You can also order it directly from Amsoil and if you sign up to becaome a preferred customer, you will get a discount.
Best regards from Montreal, Canada
frenchnew
Amsoil is sold by they network of distributors.
I did a small search and came up for the following according to your information,
Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants
(919) 847-5923 Cross Street:
224 Killington Dr Between Windham Dr and Whittier Dr
Raleigh, NC 27609
Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants
(919) 870-9633 Cross Street:
9424 Springdale Dr Between Trail Ridge Dr and Field And Stream Rd
Raleigh, NC 27613
You can also order it directly from Amsoil and if you sign up to becaome a preferred customer, you will get a discount.
Best regards from Montreal, Canada
frenchnew
10-22-2005, 05:41 PM
#29
Originally Posted by Michael Wan
frenchnew and scrb09,
Amsoil products are sometimes found in some retail stores, but most of the time have to be ordered from Amsoil directly.
Yes, the wholesale price is much less than the retail, and you should NOT have to buy the preferred customer membership to receive a discount. Any half decent dealer should sell it to you at wholesale cost if you make a $50 order or so, or at least pay the preferred membership cost for you.
Mike
Amsoil products are sometimes found in some retail stores, but most of the time have to be ordered from Amsoil directly.
Yes, the wholesale price is much less than the retail, and you should NOT have to buy the preferred customer membership to receive a discount. Any half decent dealer should sell it to you at wholesale cost if you make a $50 order or so, or at least pay the preferred membership cost for you.
Mike
10-22-2005, 10:12 PM
#30
Originally Posted by Road Rage
The TL transmisssion has an internal filter - it is not serviceable without a tear-down.
I know MW loves Specialty Formulations, but do they underwrite any damage caused by their fluid as Amsoil claims they will? Something to consider.
I know MW loves Specialty Formulations, but do they underwrite any damage caused by their fluid as Amsoil claims they will? Something to consider.
How valid is that warranty if we fail to follow their reccomendations as Amsoil strongly suggest using their Synth ATF in 90% + concentration to attain that 60K miles service life?
Its directly on Amsoil's website.
Best regards
frenchnew
10-22-2005, 10:26 PM
#31
Moderator
Originally Posted by frenchnew
How valid is that warranty if we fail to follow their reccomendations as Amsoil strongly suggest using their Synth ATF in 90% + concentration to attain that 60K miles service life?
Its directly on Amsoil's website.
Best regards
frenchnew
Its directly on Amsoil's website.
Best regards
frenchnew
Please e-mail scAmsoil Tech Services to confirm.
Mike
11-17-2005, 05:01 PM
#33
Moderator
Originally Posted by blufox
RoadRage wouldnt it be adviseable that we put Race ATFs in our transmission since they have the lowest amount of wear
If you're on a budget, Honda ATF Z-1 isn't a bad product, it's just quite overpriced at $3.95/qt or more. If you want to spend the $$$, Amsoil or Specialty Formulations isn't a bad choice at all.
11-18-2005, 02:11 PM
#34
Not a Blowhole
Thread Starter
MW is quite right about racing formulations - and not just ATF - racing formulations are almost never the best choice for street use - they are designed for a whole 'nuther set of variables, and can actually do harm. Their add packs are not designed to contend with daily driver conditions - even the amount of sulpated ash might be fine for racing conditions, but anathema for spark plugs in street conditions.
Same for brake fluid - racing fluids are often not the best, nor even recommended by AHM, for street use. I am doing my 2 year brake and clutch fluid swap on the S2000 (all 2500 miles of it), and while I have quarts of Ate for racing use, I use DOT3 per AHM's recommendation for the sreet and occasional track use - however, i do use the best DOT3 known to me - Motorcraft's! Extremely high quality and the highest temp DOT3 dry/wet bulb I know of. Racing brake fluids may have higher dry bulb temps, but they can have less wewt bulb ratings - so unless you swap out the fluid every race (as racers do), sticking to the factory spec (if not the HG part itself) isa rec gard to gloss over.
Same for brake fluid - racing fluids are often not the best, nor even recommended by AHM, for street use. I am doing my 2 year brake and clutch fluid swap on the S2000 (all 2500 miles of it), and while I have quarts of Ate for racing use, I use DOT3 per AHM's recommendation for the sreet and occasional track use - however, i do use the best DOT3 known to me - Motorcraft's! Extremely high quality and the highest temp DOT3 dry/wet bulb I know of. Racing brake fluids may have higher dry bulb temps, but they can have less wewt bulb ratings - so unless you swap out the fluid every race (as racers do), sticking to the factory spec (if not the HG part itself) isa rec gard to gloss over.
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