SteVTEC

Not quite.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame...ar.mv&num=1836

By internal engine modifications they could have done pretty much anything. Whether it be ultra-lightweight and ridciulously expensive pistons, rods, etc with very low reciprocating mass, even higher compression pistons, port modifications, hotter cams, bigger valves, etc, they could have done anything. I doubt you'll simply be able to "de-cork" the intake and exhaust and gain 30-40hp, and the changes they made are much more than you're implying.


Where the heck are you getting these numbers?

260hp G35s 5at = 220 rwhp = 15% "loss"
260hp G35s 6mt = 230 rwhp = 12% "loss" :p

In reality, that isn't possible. The engine was simply under-rated and is really putting out more like 275-280hp. Real-world drivetrain losses on the industry standard Dynojet is around 15-17% for manuals, and 22-23% for automatics. That doesn't vary significantly, and if it does it's more likely that manufacturers are playing number games with the crank ratings and they're just not accurate.

Here's a good SAE paper to checkout that describes this in great detail.

Listening to the Voice of the Customer: Inertia Dyno Horsepower Versus Oem-Rated Net Horsepower


Generally, cars with higher emissions standards respond LESS to mods vs other cars and have crankier ECUs. It's not just plugging up the exhaust more. There's more to it than that.

Probably, more or less.

Tecworld

Your reply did not refer to the part of my post that you quoted. If you read again, you'll notice that I'm talking about the lame, childish way these people are speaking to each other in their dumb chat room which is displayed at the beginning of that ridiculous video. The minute or so of life wasting time at the beginning of the video where you read a bunch of text that describes the conversation between a few idiots talking trash about the guy's CL. My dog sitting next to me here is probably just a little more intelligent then the people who made that conversation.

winstrolvtec

Wow, stevtec you really picked me apart on this one, huh. Allow me to justify my reason for thinking. You pretty much got me on the a-spec, so i will admit i stand corrected that it does include internal engine modification. But there is the thing where acura redesigned this new engine for a whopping 10 horses, sounds strange to me but its either underrated or restricted in some way. A dyno from this site, says 231hp and 210tg for the TL. Thats brings us to about a 15% drivetrain loss in hp and around the same in tg. Moving on, i was under the impression that all the nissan 3.5's were closer to output then most people thought, could be wrong. Obtained dyno #'s from a 350z which is the most potent of the 3.5's, when compared to g35s. 214hp and 213 tg, now i know they seem a little low but my cousins g35c didnt dyno much higher, and i was taking into consideration the injen cai that was installed to it. And i do understand that even dyno's are not always 100% accurate. As far as making 300hp, obviously not to the wheels, but very possible i will almost gaurentee it. Injen cai put down 11 whp, now thats about 15 or more engine. Not to mention a better aem will follow. Cant say for sure but exhaust will most likely generate 15 to 20 engine horses, when one comes out. This is based on my previous experiences with honda's and acura'a with lev ratings, and this serves true with cars with that many cats. I do understand that low emissions have more to do with just plugging it up, but you have to admit that with 3 cats there is potential for more hp. Now when i raced the g35 coupe 6mt, against my previous car, an rsx-s i never lost by more than 1 to 3 cars up to 100mph and even won a few times, and the TL is a faster car than rsx-s, thats why i feel they are more or less the same. Not to mention i was always completely stock, except for tires.

Tecworld

stevevtec likes to pick apart everyone's posts. His posts have plenty of flaws too, but arguing against them will just lead him to post even more posts of the same kind, and most people don't have the amount of time to write 2 pages of posting each day to combat him.

SteVTEC

That was a Dynapack dyno, which reads about 6% higher than the industry standard Dynojet. So you're comparing apples to oranges. Different types of dynos read differently so you have to be sure you're comparing the same thing. Which you're not. I'm sure I could go over to g35driver.com and find somebody that dynoed on a dynapack also. That would read maybe 230 rwhp for an auto and 240 rwhp for a manual then.

If they're low dynos then they're low dynos and I'm not sure what they prove other than that they're not typical for the car and not really useful for any comparisons.


If you define 1-3 cars as about the same, then yes, I agree with you. They're about the same.

SteVTEC

I suppose basing my posts on research findings from SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) published papers means that my posts have "plenty of flaws" huh?

Listening to the Voice of the Customer: Inertia Dyno Horsepower Versus Oem-Rated Net Horsepower

$12 download. Knowledge is cheap.

winstrolvtec

Stevtec you do seem know your stuff, so i thank you for pointing out my errors. On the other hand does a dyno matter so much to you that you pay for this info (although maybe wrong) when im getting it for free. And isnt a dyno nothing more then mechanical in itself so in other words its not flawless and on that note no two cars are the same. When you stop and think about when cars are close in thier #'s isnt it really the driver who controls victory and not machine, what are the dyno figures gonna do, get up off the screen and drive the car themselves, no i dont think so. I was trying to make an innocent comparison based on what i knew, turns out i dont know much, should have never said anything in the first place, but regardless i love the new TL and i will have fun beating out the competition with it. Oh and by the way i said it was I, rsx type s that lost by 1-3 lenghts to the g35c and often, I won, usaully one out of three to four races.

TL_6SPD

Seems that way eh? He needs to leave since he doesn't own a Honda.

vandy786

The magazines never got fast times for the Maxima. Way over 6 seconds to 60 and very very high 14s in the 1/4. THe fast times were what people on the forums are running. In other words, as people have more of a feel for the car, the times will go down, just as they did for the Maximas. That was the point I wanted to make.

goldendragon576

I believe it. Good kill. You'd be surprised how some people just can't drive. The G might have shifted too quickly and was in a higher hear and lost torque. Sometimes you just get luck with a dumb driver. A kill is a kill! Good job! If I told you my TL-S ran with a SVT Cobra you wouldn't believe me. But ask TL_Diplomat, he was there and he kept up as well! It wasn't the car but the driver, we both killed the Mustang!!!

memyslefandi

they never did until the 255hp 6-speed was released. and when they first tested it they got good times after say, a few runs. as apposed to a few months or even years. except maybe in the case of that cheesy "Canadian Driver" you refererd to.

it takes a good driver maybe a handful of runs before they learn how the car likes to be launched. not nearly the amount of time you are suggesting.

rets

If your criticism targeted at that conversation inside the video chip, yes, you're right with that. But we don't know their ages, and they may be just the teenagers or drop-out college students, and that's the very common converstaion among them. You will hear tons of talks like that in LA street racing site.

Monte TLS,MAX

Well once C/D finally tested the 02 Manual they got 6 sec flat to 60 adn who knows different conditions it could have dropped to say 5.8-5.9. I think all of these cars 04TL manual, 02-04 Max manual, G35 Sedan Manual all run similar 0-60 times and may the best driver win.

SteVTEC

Seeing dynos for lots of different cars is one thing, but truly understanding how a dyno works and how and why they come up with the numbers that they do (which vary from brand to brand) is something completely different.

By the way, I'm not disagreeing with you on your overall point.

SteVTEC

Russ? Is that you? :p

TL_6SPD

Who is Russ?

SilverBulletCLS

I am Russ. He just thinks anyone who goes at him is Russ. lol Steve to what I see in this post, you haven;'t made any friends. lol

SteVTEC

:lol1:

Yeah Russ, I thought that was you. Thanks for confirming it. Registering under another name just to try to gang up on somebody. I bet anything if a moderator checks the IP addresses they come up the same.

temp

his life is SO f***ing sad

TL_6SPD

Pretty sad he has nothing else to do. I guess my new name is Russ now.

VQ35DE

:lol: maybe sad but still funny!!! :lol:

vandy786

Well I just found that cheesy Canadian Driver article to prove that you were totally wrong. It's the first thing that came up in search engines. Apparently, I wasn't clear enough so let me try and say it again:

None of the magazines got the best times for the 2002/2003 Maximas. It was just regular consumers who went to the track and posted slips and videos of their runs which bested the magazine times. So basically, I expect the same to be true for the 2004 TL. Provided someone is bold enough to push it, it will run better times than a 14.2. It will just take some time for that person to appear and show us the proof (slip), just like it did in the case of the older gen Maximas. I can't make my point any clearer.

EZZ

Sorry but I think your reasoning is also flawed. I would concede that the best time I have seen for the Max is around 6.2 and people have probably beaten that. However, I have rarely seen anyone best the magazine times for an S2000 and a 350Z. The 350Z was run at 13.9 on C&D and rarely has anyone run that stock. Some people have but the majority has only matched or gotten slower times. Another case might be the TLS. C&D once ran a 6.3 to 60. From most indications, the new TL does that stock and it is noticeably faster than the old TLS.

Until I see proof, I wouldn't make assertions that the TL is a 13 second car.

vandy786

That's my point though. It takes time for people to get those numbers. Once a car is fully and properly broken in, it is possible that we may see those numbers. That's all I was saying.

Tecworld

Yea that was what I was referring to. When people start saying "owned" and especially "pwned" (pure owned) I can't stand it. SUPER IDIOTIC.

LVSBB6

The G is all about low to mid end power, it is very torquey at the that range and feels very fast because of the quick throttle response. Honestly speaking, TL does not have the kind of low end torque that G has.

However, the top end power of G is not as aggressively tuned as the TL, thats the magic of VTEC and the reason why TL could beat the G at the drap strip.

memyslefandi

mid end? that seems contradictory.

mid range perhaps.

drap strip?

besides the TL doesnt beat the G at the Drag Strip.

actually you may as well flip a coin because they are very close.
---------------------------------------------------------
source: Car and Driver

G35 6MT: 5.9-60mph, 1/4 14.2

'04TL 6MT: 5.7-60mph, 1/4 14.4
----------------------------------------------------------

but ive seen a G35 6MT clocked at 5.6 to 60.

conclusion: they are too close to declare a winner. so lets stop bickering over 1 or 2 tenths of a second. because neither is exceptionally faster than the other or other cars out there.

but one performance area the G35 beats out the TL hands down is handling. so there you have it. get over it now.

EZZ

Don't forget braking

vandy786

Don't forget the categories of rear-end ugliness and interior $hittiness. The G35 wins those categories too. Now we can all get over it.

LVSBB6

The only time that the G can keep up with TL is to have a good launch from start.

However, from a rolling start the TL will pull away.

SilverBulletCLS

FYI, the TL got 115 ft braking...The G35 was between 110-115. Not much of a difference IMHO.

EZZ

That was one performance test. The others have gotten much worse. Till I see better numbers from a comparison, I'd have to take an average and the average just isn't very good. Something may have been really jacked on that C&D test because it was worse than a Camry

brahtw8

The C&D test was with the EL42 all season tires. That seems to be the reason why the braking numbers were so bad. The other tests, motor trend and motor week, IIRC, were with the HPTs.

SilverBulletCLS

Well the average needs to have the Brembo brakes too. Make sure it has that with 6spd.

niko14

where do you come up with this stuff ????

look at the gearing and torque curves...

memyslefandi

oh christ guys, cut the crap. after that huge debate about acceleration it turns out the 2 cars a pretty much even. so now were going to turn it into a braking debate. well the G35 wins that one easily. 60-0 in low 110's. thats the sedan automatic with all-season tires and non-brembo brakes. and you guys are suggesting it isnt fair unless you compare that to the 6MT TL with performance tires and brembo clamps? HA!

give it up. they are both fine sedans. you chose the car you chose for a reason so just enjoy it!

niko14

yeah!!!

brahtw8

The idea is not to use a 'ringer' TL in the 6MT/HPT versus a 5AT with all-seasons, but to avoid any prejudice to the TL by using the EL42 tires, specifically. Use of a decent all-seasons would be fine.

If you guys have spent any time on this site OUTSIDE of this G35 thread, you should not be surprised or indignant about the desire to avoid the C&D test with the EL42s. The number of people who have forced a replacement of those tires by their dealer and/or corporate is growing. I refused to take delivery with those tires on the car, and the dealer obliged.

chrisddo

My close friend's brother just got a 6-speed TL and I gotta say that the thing is quite amazing for the money. It is so smooth that you sometimes forget how fast you are going. It definitely feels less grunty down low compared to my other friend's G35 coupe but it has great high end power. IMHO I would definitely say that a straight line race between the 2 would be a drivers race and the G35s better braking and vastly superior skidpad could quite possibly whoop the TL in AutoX.

They are both great cars and I would love to own either one. I've raced both cars in my audi wagon though, pretty much put them in their place but for the price I believe these cars are great steals.

Would love to race one with my econo-crap Jetta

LVSBB6

I believe the times for TL would be even lower if better tires were used.

C&D did 5.8 for 0-60, and that is spinning on Turanzas.