DetroitTigers

I am in the market to get a sports sedan and am considering buying a new ’06 Acura TL with 6-spd manual. Due to other financial constraints such as a mortgage from building a large house two years ago, I am trying to stay under 30K, but like all budgets there has been the inevitable little bit of play given. I would like to drive a sports-car like I did for a short time in my early 20s (’96 Eagle Talon TSi - i.e. Turbo AWD 5-spd), but I am married with two small children and need a good blend of sport and practicality. The car must be sporty and fast, have 4-doors, a large enough back seat for 2 children, and be drivable during long Michigan winters…

The cars I have been considering have been the following:

Acura TL – new ’06 or low mileage ‘06
Audi A4 – 3.0 or 2.0
BMW 3-series (330xi, 330i, 330i Performance) – ’03 – ‘05
Subaru Legacy GT Limited (w/ or w/o Spec.B) – ’05 – ’07

I have looked at or considered others because the market segment is so competitive such as VW Jetta, Mazdaspeed 6, G35 but unfortunately can’t get AWD w/ stick :-(, Acura TSX, Volvo S 60 R…

I am at the point where I have driven my 4 top cars and enjoy them all but am seriously debating ’04/’05 BMW 330i w/ ZHP Performance Package with 30K or less miles and price of 32K or less. I was originally looking for 330xi w/ manual but it’s a rare car to find and stumbled into a few of these cool limited-run 330i ZHPs. Not sure about driving RWD in winter, but I keep hearing that it is fine with winter tires…

A new Acura TL ’06 model year is the other possibility since the dealers are now actually willing to semi-negotiate (33K’ish w/ Nav) on the sticker because they want to move them unlike the ‘07s. The big drawback is FWD with torque steer compared to others but FWD is also good in snow. The interior size of this car is far-superior to the others I am considering (more BMW 5-series size at bargain price). The Type-S would be really cool on a more liberal budget…

Honorable mention to the Subaru (34K’ish MSRP before haggling), it is way-fast and fun-to-drive but a little boring in the looks department; it still makes my list of final three. The interior of this car is pretty nice as well and Nav is standard w/ SpecB. I ruled out the Audi because I keep hearing about quality issues and the cost to fix.

I am looking for any suggestions regarding my purchasing options. Being that this is a pro-Acura site, I have posted a similar thread in a pro-BMW (maybe will even post on Subaru) site to elicit opinions…

jmaikamon

You won't find anything out there with the amount of standard features and quality for the price. Compare apples to apples and you will see for yourself. Good luck!

Ernie Golfs

If you buy the BMW, be sure you get factory warrenty which includes coverage for brakes and rotors!

I'd get the 06 TL, it's a great car for the price.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't characterize the TL as a sports sedan but I would characterize it as a sporty FWD sedan. The stiffer suspension, Brembo brakes coupled with the manual tranny would make it interesting.
The TL is sporty and fast, has 4-doors, has a larger back seat than the 3er , and in theory should be more capable than the RWD 3er during long Michigan winters…

Hi There

I'd just like to chime in and say that with you price restrictions being a factor in your thinking, if you do decide on a new '06 TL, now is the time to buy. I just put the deposit on my new non-navi TL, and got it for well under the 30k mark (about 29K, to be exact, about 3-4 thousand off MSRP and well below dealer invoice)...the 07's are getting set to come in, have new color schemes and whatnot, and the 06's are taking up space on showroom floors and in storage facilities.

IIIII

if you dont mind buying used compared to buying new. Go with the BMW 330.

subinf

I'm not a BMW fan so TL gets the vote

Darknesss_TL

you know you're gonna get the TL , lol c'mon, quit playing...listen to the voice in your had that says "TL" every so gently...LOL just don't go audi unless you like meeting new people and getting to know them well i.e. the service dept. guys for audi......but otherwise i think you have soem good choices. good luck

CL Platano

TL or Subaru Legacy GT

scrb09

If you have 30 K (+/- a few) as you said, you are pretty much down to a used BMW, especially 330 and even the Audi unless you go for the 2.0 which wouldnt have much oomph IMHO (dont know the current HP's) As HI there says you can get a TL for under 30K...that should put things into prespective.

also for rear seat space the TL beats them both hands down.

SouthernBoy

Actually, the TL is a true sports sedan.. according to the car magazine writers. And in 2004, MotorWeek awarded it the Best In Class award for Sports Sedan.

The manual makes the car.

SouthernBoy

As for torque steer, it's not all that much of a problem with the TL manual. Unless you're turning and nail it or something similar. In straight line WOT or running through the twisties, you shouldn't experience any real torque steer. At least that's been my experience.

BarryH

Do you want more "car" or more "stuff." If you want stuff, the TL is the hands down winner. With all of the electronic toys that are part of the package (which BTW are produced by third parties and have nothing to do with the fundamental goodness of the car) you'll be state of the art. If you want better engineering, materials, and a true sports sedan go with a CPO BMW. If you go with a used "pre-depreciated" BMW, you'll also have more options a year or two down the road should you decide to trade up as they hold their resale incredibly well. Before I get flamed, I've owned two Acura's and two BMW's and the above is just my opinion from experiences with both brands over the last five years (I own neither now). Having worked with Acura and BMW dealers all over the country for service, I can say I was treated much better by the BMW dealers.

CL Platano

30K= Legacy GT fully loaded with gobbles of modding possibilties

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

Let me start by saying that I absolutely love my 05 ABP TL and have no regrets purchasing it.
That being said, how does a FWD, nose heavy TL constitute being a true sports sedan?? I do think it is a sporty sedan with an excellent blend of performance, luxury, value and technology but a true sports sedan

bjtexer

they've said it all...... now gooooooooo.... get in... "A" word of T_otal L_uxury and S_port
(ACURA TL type S)

SouthernBoy

Their works, not mine.

Mind you, I'm no voice for FWD since RWD tends to be my preference.. and for good reason. But I will also admit that there are some fine choices in the FWD catagory and the TL is one of them.

Here's another case in point. One could have asked the same question about the 2000 SVT Contour, also a FWD sedan, qualifying as a sports sedan. Well I'm here to tell you that a 2000 SVT Contour would give a 3-series BMW morning sickness in the corners. With a .86g skid pad, that year's 3-series would have been hard pressed to match the SVT Contour's .92g mark. Not sure how Ford pulled this one off, but having owned one, I can tell you it was a true handling machine.

As for the label, "Performance Sports Sedan", magazine writers have long since attached this name to a host of sedans over the recent years. Should be interesting to see how the new '07 TL-S fairs in this 'war".

SouthernBoy

Oops. I meant, "Their words, not mine".

SouthernBoy

First off, welcome aboard. I just noticed that this is your first post. I hope you find this site both interesting and informative. I know and appreciate your dilemma. I currently own two 3G TL's. Mine is an '04 manual and my wife's is an '05 automatic. We traded her '96 328i BMW for her '05 TL and she is so happy she did. Her 328i loved to visit the shop on a rather regular basis. German engineering doesn't really impress me all that much.. they really tend to do some curious things.

Still, you are looking in a very competitive and good market. I would expand it a little by suggesting you might also consider the G35 Infiniti. Very nice machine and if you wait until the 2007's hit, you'll have a serious performer. While not all that good looking, it does get the job done. The '07 does a 0-60 in 5.2 seconds and the quarter mile in 13.9 seconds at 103 MPH. That's serious territory for a small V6 in a nearly 3600 pound car.

The '06 TLs can be had for decent prices now and are nothing to sneeze at. Very well quipped and decent performers.

Good luck and let us know which way you decide to move.

leedogg

you might want to also consider fuel economy and mileage. I do believe the TL gets the best mpg out of all your choices.

look here for comparison info including total cost of ownership:

http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/compa...Le.DXPkhk_c78F

mmcv6

overall from a to z get the tl. You get more for the money then a 330i... I love bmw but not how the 330i drives and looks.. The inside is so dull a civic inside looks better.. thats just me... I would think the tl would be a better family car on trips since comparing the ride the tl is much more calm...

CBRTLS47

love the legacy GT

oppnyc

BMW beats TL.
Better quality in all areas (paint, cabin material, fit, etc)
Engine
Breaks
RWD>FWD
Dealer service
In my experience all TL have some rattles and small cheap squeaks in a cabin. This alone put TL below luxury level. Plus TL is not sport sedan; it is simple sedan (it is fast however)

I know few people (including myself) who are on market for BMW. No more American cars.
Car is car in first place and than all electronic toys.
One area where TL beats other cars including BMW is toys.
So if toys are important then TL, if you are driver then BMW.
It was my mistake to buy TL especially knowing that is built in USA.
TL sucks in winter with original tires, so TL is also as bad as BMW in winter.
I know it from experience. I live in NY, so we had some winters for last few years.

oppnyc

Here is a link.
Check and read.
Toooo many people say TL=poor quality plus rattles
TL reviews

FiveLiterCheater

My friend just bought a used 330ci two months ago

so far...

*Major tranny issues
*center console electronics needed to be replaced (windows wouldnt close/open)
*Some light on his dash keeps reapearing(i forgot which, never heard of it before)

I donno, he's been complaining about it ever since he got it. He said he was going to keep it until spring and sell it for the new G35 sedan (or coupe, if it ever comes out)

vincethe1

engeneering? quality? please

vincethe1

better paint? better engine...wow...basically the gernans can't make cars and there's nothing wrong with FWD 4 every day driving

mmcv6

in the family we got a 05 bmw, and a 06 tl and alot of my family members have bmw and acura cars. so I can tell you from having both no way is a bmw better. Its just the name dont let it throw you off.

"BMW beats TL.
Better quality in all areas (paint, cabin material, fit, etc)"
** paint? no as far as I know its just a different paint. cabin material sucks its so ugle inside and boring compared to the tl...

"Engine"
** the engine is nice in a m3, 330i sucks I have driven both.

"Breaks"
** I just drove a 06 330 a few days ago and I did not like it.

"RWD>FWD"
** each has its good and bad areas...


"Dealer service"
** just brought my 05 bmw in for service and all they did was a oil change at 10k miles and it took a full day.. come on...

"In my experience all TL have some rattles and small cheap squeaks in a cabin. This alone put TL below luxury level. Plus TL is not sport sedan; it is simple sedan (it is fast however)"
**my tl has no rattles and small squeaks in the cabin. I dont consider the tl a luxury car, but compared to a 330i it is. Luxury hmmm maybe a 745 bmw. The TL is not that fast...

"I know few people (including myself) who are on market for BMW. No more American cars."
** So am I but for the price and what a bmw comes with its not worth it. BMW cars got alot of electrical problems (I can tell you first hand)...

"One area where TL beats other cars including BMW is toys."
**True, the price for toys is cheaper bmw toys are also overpriced..

"It was my mistake to buy TL especially knowing that is built in USA."
** Everyone makes mistakes.. Once again i will say i love bmw but for the price and what it comes with its not worth it. Unless you add 10k+ to the base price...I was going to get a 330i and add the things the tl comes with standard. guess what the price came out to be?

"TL sucks in winter with original tires, so TL is also as bad as BMW in winter."
** Yes with original tires, but 90% of original tires from the dealer suck including the bmw.

with all I said.. dont think im out to get you.. I own both name brand so i can give you all a idea of how I feel.. The person that posted about bmw being better then a tl is his own way of thinking.
I think for daily use, and for the money the tl is your best beat.
If you got a family and go on long trips you will like the tl more then a 330i. go drive one and you 'might' feel the same as me...
happy days hehe.. dont be mad...

oppnyc

I am not mad.
I like the way you exposed your opinion.
My biggest issue with my TL is rattles and cabin squeaks all around.
I do not get why Honda - Acura build such nice looking car as TL and cut corners on a quality. (fit, plastic, clips)
If TL would be build with German quality (I still think that in Germany quality is much higher then in USA) than TL will win.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

Every car is going to have issues some where.

With the TL, the predominant complaint is rattles/squeaks, faded blotchy looking dash, etc.

With the 3er (e90)- electrical & tranny issues.

BTW, my 05 TL has no rattles and squeaks so NO, not all TL's have those issues just like NOT all 3ers have electrical/ tranny issues.

FWD, in theory outperforms RWD in the snow. Bottom line- get a pair of snows for the winter time in either car.

TallDarknFugly

I'd go with the TL. I honestly think the BMW 330's a joke. The inside feels and looks so hollow and the body too isn't appealing. With the TL u get alot of features you will have to pay major bucks for in the BMW.

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

In my opinion if you want a trouble free car by the TL. If you want a car that you wont mind it being in the shop every once and awhile then the BMW should be ok for you.

neuronbob

To the OP, welcome to Acurazine.

As to your top choices: My personal preference in your price range would remove the Audi. The others are all solid choices.

The TL will simply give you the most bang for the buck. I recently traded my 2004 TL with nearly 60k miles. I had no major problems with it and the only reason I traded was because the RL was more easily accessible (e.g. got a great deal). Purchasing now will get you a new non-navi 2006 in your price range. Adding A-Spec suspension will make the car MUCH more sporty-feeling, yet not compromise the ride quality. I know some have quibbles about the quality, but again I had no serious issues with mine, and mine was one of the first 2k of the 3G TLs ever built. I drove my TL through three winters with first stock, then aftermarket all-season tires with minimal trouble. And Cleveland winters are BAD, AWFUL, sucky, and where I live on the east side of Cleveland it snows a lot.

The BMW (03-05) is an AWESOME car. Not as many toys, the interior is not as good, and you will NEED an extended warranty. But all that is made up for by the driving experience. I have driven BMWs, and no car drives as perfectly as a 3-series. RWD is not ideal for Michigan winters (which are as bad as Cleveland winters). but with snow tires and the usual electronic gimmickry you could probablly make it. Can you find a 330xi in your price range?

The Subie drives like a bat out of hell and is AWD. I don't have as much experience with this one, but it certainly qualifies as "fun to drive".

I hope this helps.

SouthernBoy

Funny. Some of our members picking on American machines. The top three most reliable cars I've ever owned were all American products.. Fords. A 1988 Mustang LX 302CID, a 1996 Contour SE, and a 2001 Ranger pickup (which I still own).

I could also add to this short list my 1966 SS396/360 Chevelle - especially in light of the fact that I raced that machine a lot.

I will say that over all, my '04 manual TL has the potential of becoming the best of the lot when viewed in terms of what it has to offer along with the pleasure of driving this car.

ndx2

Welcome to the forum!

IMO, as long as you get dedicated winter sets and/or good all seasons, RWD shouldn't be a real issue in Michigan - since the roads are flat and straight.

For the same reason, however, it's not so lucrative to have a RWD sedan at the cost of leg room (especially if you're gonna be using your backseats for kids), some features, warranty lengths, and so on.

I would place TL at the top of the list in your case.




OT: Why do some of you guys compare BMW to TL? BMW is a brand; TL is a car...

Bammyz

Personally, I would go with the Acura TL. The BMW 3-Series is only HALF the car that the TL is. Yes, BMW has great engineering and may be fun to drive however, for the money you will spend to get a well-equiped 3-Series, you would be better-off with the TL in the long run!

I looked at a BMW 3-Series before I bought my TL and the 3-Series was lacking a lot of features that I was seeking. Also, I do not care for the redesign interior or exterior styling. I liked the previous styling better.

Going by what others have said and with their experiences with BMW products, it looks like the TL wins, hands down!

Good luck with your decision! Bottom line is, YOU gotta be happy!

subinf

That may be the case with the higher end German cars, but the ones they are making now to compete with the Japanese market cut a ton of corners regarding interior quality.

Bammyz

I don't understand why so many people have said that Honda/Acura cuts corners on quality. Personally, I think that for the money, it is one heck of a car! My Husband is a Plastics Engineer, so he KNOWS his plastics and he is very impressed with the TL also. He said it is "tight" and "very well made".

I have sat in German cars (WW, Audi, BMW) and I found a lot of cheap materials being used. BTW: My Husband currently owns a VW and he said that he probably won't buy VW again. Alot of things wore out on it (interior & exterior), parts broke and cheap plastics were used however, no engine problems (only cosmetic really). So, I dunno?

I think when you really compare Acura to other cars out there, you really cannot find anything better, for the money!

subinf

I should have been more specific. I'm not saying Acura cuts corners at all. They offer a ton of great stuff for an awesome price. In order for the German auto makers to compete with Acura, they are the ones cutting the quality on the interior.

Fatalilluzionz

buy a SAAB great quality and fun to drive .... just dont hold on to it TOOO long ...HaHa