Premium vs Regular gas
The following 3 users liked this post by Jackass:
#42
OMG someone didn't use premium and the entire car disintegrated and only the fuel door survived? Wow, I'm sure glad you're here to show us the tragic results. I'm not believing anything written by Acura or anyone else after 2004.
Do you only use Acura branded oil AND filters from the dealer too? Boy, if I ever owned an ultra luxury Acura TL I'd be too frightened to try an oil change myself, better to let the dealer do that technical stuff. You know you could damage the engine (which I'm sure you tell yourself over and over and over).
It's a free country and you can do what you want; but I really doubt you could tell the difference between filling up with premium or just putting in regular and then taking out a five and lighting it on fire.
Could your "butt dyno" feel the 12 fewer horsepower in the later 3.2L models?
Do you only use Acura branded oil AND filters from the dealer too? Boy, if I ever owned an ultra luxury Acura TL I'd be too frightened to try an oil change myself, better to let the dealer do that technical stuff. You know you could damage the engine (which I'm sure you tell yourself over and over and over).
It's a free country and you can do what you want; but I really doubt you could tell the difference between filling up with premium or just putting in regular and then taking out a five and lighting it on fire.
Could your "butt dyno" feel the 12 fewer horsepower in the later 3.2L models?
#43
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
iTrader: (1)
Nobody is stopping you from using whatever you wish. You can pour moutain dew down the gas tank for all I care. You can't ignore what is clearly stated on the gas lid or in the owners manual. It's required to use 91 or higher, after that it's your choice. At the end of the day i'm not worried about spending a extra few hundred bucks in the year for the proper required fuel. If a few hundred bucks is going to make it or break for you, then you have other issues.
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Jackass (08-18-2021),
Marsalis Simms (08-18-2021)
#45
Advanced
Thread Starter
Okay, so I'm going to stop with the whining and just get the premium 92 octane. 92 is what we have here in western Washington. I've been getting gas at Safeway and a few 76 stations. Is there any good gas station that I should focus on going to? I've heard great things about Shell gas.
What are your guys' recommendations for best premium gas?
What are your guys' recommendations for best premium gas?
#46
Here it goes again, this is what I'm talking about. You state you run regular and why and people start throwing borderline insults your way, it is ridiculous.
It is a calculated risk after looking at the cost-benefit factors.
#47
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
iTrader: (1)
I use 93 in all my vehicles as it's what required. I use whatever the vehicle calls for.. Insults started with your cute statement of being triggered. Welcome to the internet and welcome to me being real with you.
Last edited by 04WDPSeDaN; 08-17-2021 at 04:53 PM.
#48
Separates the well maintained, pristine TL's to the rollers dumpsters
There have also been comments about me not giving a shit about my car and stuff like that that were totally unprovoked. I've been 100% cordial the whole thread up until this point and haven't passed a bit of judgement on anyone that chooses to run premium yet there's definitely been backhanded remarks going the other direction. BTW that comment wasn't directed at you, or anyone in particular, though if that's how you respond to a general observation you must be at least a little triggered no?
Personally, I feel those who think anyone putting anything less than 91 octane in their car, regardless of the conditions or circumstances, is an idiot who is damaging their car out of cheapness is a fool, though I've kept that to myself up until this point. Though that's more about the attitude and ignorance than their choice.
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ArdentWaffler (07-18-2024)
#49
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
iTrader: (1)
How about this one?
There have also been comments about me not giving a shit about my car and stuff like that that were totally unprovoked. I've been 100% cordial the whole thread up until this point and haven't passed a bit of judgement on anyone that chooses to run premium yet there's definitely been backhanded remarks going the other direction. BTW that comment wasn't directed at you, or anyone in particular, though if that's how you respond to a general observation you must be at least a little triggered no?
Personally, I feel those who think anyone putting anything less than 91 octane in their car, regardless of the conditions or circumstances, is an idiot who is damaging their car out of cheapness is a fool, though I've kept that to myself up until this point. Though that's more about the attitude and ignorance than their choice.
There have also been comments about me not giving a shit about my car and stuff like that that were totally unprovoked. I've been 100% cordial the whole thread up until this point and haven't passed a bit of judgement on anyone that chooses to run premium yet there's definitely been backhanded remarks going the other direction. BTW that comment wasn't directed at you, or anyone in particular, though if that's how you respond to a general observation you must be at least a little triggered no?
Personally, I feel those who think anyone putting anything less than 91 octane in their car, regardless of the conditions or circumstances, is an idiot who is damaging their car out of cheapness is a fool, though I've kept that to myself up until this point. Though that's more about the attitude and ignorance than their choice.
The reality is for someone to have the same level of pristine to my TL on here or in general is very slim. I'm a different type of person and if you follow my build thread you would understand my statement. I've been around this crap way too long and repaired vehicles for 12 years before leaving the industry. In my eyes, I'm a hard critic and if it's not to my standards of clean or well maintained, I write it off. That's just my character. Needless to say, even with my "attitude" i'm still a genuine car guy and a good person. I called out someone on the Facebook group because his ball joint broke and his front tire was bold. The car lacked maintenance. After I busted his balls, I paypal him money to use towards buying a set of decent tires. How ever you and others maintain your vehicles is on you guys. It's not my car so I don't care to be honest. The reality is, the 3rd gen TL community has shown the reality of what has happened to these vehicles once it's hit the 4th or 5th owners, so I don't expect much. Enjoy your night.
Last edited by 04WDPSeDaN; 08-17-2021 at 08:19 PM.
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DMZ (08-18-2021)
#50
Head a da Family
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Age: 69
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The reality is for someone to have the same level of pristine to my TL on here or in general is very slim. The reality is, the 3rd gen TL community has shown the reality of what has happened to these vehicles once it's hit the 4th or 5th owners, so I don't expect much. Enjoy your night.
.
.
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04WDPSeDaN (08-18-2021)
#51
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
iTrader: (1)
Then you this statement such as "ACURA CLAIMS ITS OKAY to use regular" from one bright member here. Funny last time I've checked this was the 3rd gen TL 2004-2008 Acura didn't make such claims for this vehicle.
Then this other bright individual posting this crap "I trust the people above know more about this stuff than some internet talking head or barstool prophet. The knock sensors and computers have only advanced and gotten better since 2003. And Honda is now making turbo engines that run on regular to replace the (old) SOHC V6 ( I have a 3.2 TL and 3.0 Accord in my driveway).
I now run regular in my 3rd gen TL (6MT) all the time. Like Honda's principal chemist, I can't tell the difference, no change in mileage or power.
It's a free country, run what makes you happy, but don't be scared to try a tank and see for yourself.
FLAME AWAY haters "
Flame away haters because "I want to use regular and not be judged and if you do, you're a HATER!!!!" and I trust peoples from the internet more than the engineers who designed the engine
And then pasted this statement from good ole google:
"According to the manufacturer, premium gas is required only for the Acura NSX. However, it is recommended for the MDX, RDX, TLX, RLX, and ILX for optimal performance. The answer to the question,” Do all Acuras require premium gas?” is no — but there are many reasons why a higher-octane fuel can benefit your Acura vehicle."
What exactly does the 2004-2008 3rd gen TL have to do with the MDX, RDX, TLX, RLX and ILX? Nothing because it's over a decade older than these vehicles as the statement was for current Acura's..
Last edited by 04WDPSeDaN; 08-18-2021 at 06:58 AM.
#52
I feel I've already explained my side but let me elaborate since not many people seem to understand what I am saying.. Obviously running 93 all the time would be best, duh. But 93 cost 90c/gal more here currently and that isn't a non-factor. I could afford it just fine, but I just don't think it makes sense to do so.
Yes, Acura designed the engine to run on 91 safely in the most extreme cases. So an engine with optimal compression should have no problem being driven aggressively and revving up to redline in 100-110 degree weather. So yeah, if I was going to be racing my car in that weather I would put premium in. I also know my car with 215k likely isn't making the same compression as a car with 10k miles. It's also not always 110 degrees. Given all these factors, if it is going to be over 90 degrees I will usually put 50/50 in which would put me at around 90 octane, rather than 91. If I am going to be going on a trip with all highway miles at a constant 2500rpm, I probably won't. If it's cool fall/spring weather, or winter, I usually run 87 unless I plan on driving the car hard. In all of the above circumstances I am unlikely to get engine knocking despite running less octane than recommended by acura, and even less likely to get predetonation to a degree it would damage my engine.
Now let me explain the cost-benefit analysis. Most decisions are a gamble to a degree. For a while I bought used smartphones on ebay for $150ish. Insurance would cost me $13/month. I decided to forgo insurance because as long as I don't break my phone within a year, I will come out ahead just not paying for insurance and buying another phone as long as I don't break it in the first 12 months. Recently I bought a newer $600 phone but did decide to go for insurance, since a screen repair cost $200-$300 and a replacement would cost $600. I'd have to go several years problem free to lose money with insurance.
Now onto the car; I should be able to get a used engine put in my car for under 3k, likely closer to 2k. I drive about 12k miles a year, so it would take me about 8 years to go 100k. 93 cost 90 cents a gallon more than 87. Getting 20mpg, I use 600 gallons a year, or 5000 gallons over the course of 100k miles. Running premium would cost an additional $540 a year, or $4500 over the course of 100k miles. That is more than I have in the car, new ball joints, LCA's, inner/outer tie rods, stabilizer bar end links, AC compressor, new TB/WP, a new APP sensor, throttle body, and new brakes all around. Running 50/50 blend making 90 octane in the hottest months of the year, or when I plan on driving the car aggressively, so lets say 30% of the time, would make 15% of the fuel I buy cost 90c/gal more. So every year I would be spending an additional $81 a year or $675 over the course of 100k miles. That brings the savings to $459 a year or $3825 over 100k. If a used engine cost $3000 as long as my engine is not damaged in 78000 miles, I come out ahead. If an engine cost $2000, as long as my engine is not damaged in 52,000 miles I come out ahead. Now, if I thought the likelyhood of engine damage was high, I probably would just run 93 all the time. But I don't. With a high mileage car that has probably lost compression over the years, I think it is highly unlikely running 87 in cold weather daily driving conditions, or 90 octane in the same conditions during the hot months will cause damage. But even if it does, I doubt it would happen in the time frames listed above. I am just being real. I am not the first owner, and while a used engine would be a wildcard, so is any car/engine you have not maintained since day one. Not to mention a used engine would probably have less miles than mine.
Last edited by 056mt; 08-18-2021 at 07:43 AM.
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Jim2301 (08-19-2021)
#53
Just curious, are you running water/meth, E85, or race gas in your supercharged car? Low compression pistons? If so, do you rag on members running superchargers without any of the listed? Because I'd imagine such a car would be at a lot higher risk having predetonation issues than mine would.
#54
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
iTrader: (1)
Just curious, are you running water/meth, E85, or race gas in your supercharged car? Low compression pistons? If so, do you rag on members running superchargers without any of the listed? Because I'd imagine such a car would be at a lot higher risk having predetonation issues than mine would.
Go through my build thread if you're curious. 8 years boosted my engine is mechanically sound. My TL in general has zero issues
#55
UA7_Unknown
I'm surprised this thread is still getting responses lol At the end of the day, each owner can do as they wish with their vehicle. The car is obviously designed to take premium but if you feel safe with running regular and it doesn't impact you much personally, more power to ya. Some of us have TL's as beaters, others probably over "baby" them (myself included).
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#56
UA7_Unknown
Getting the front bumper and spoiler repainted next week
Last edited by Marsalis Simms; 08-18-2021 at 12:25 PM.
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#57
AZ Community Team
C&D did a interesting premium vs. regular on four vehicles (including a M5) in 2019 with performance results FWIW. Pretty interesting results, always amazes me how much modern ECU's manage ICE
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...dodge-charger/
Last edited by Legend2TL; 08-18-2021 at 12:32 PM.
#58
AZ Community Team
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Marsalis Simms (08-18-2021)
#59
Mr. Detail
If you wanted to put 87 in your car you should buy any V6 accord.. they all mostly run at 10:1 compression stock
the J32a3 and J35a8 found in the 3rd gen base model and type-s are considered high out, high compression V6 motors.. they run at 11:1 compression stock which is why the engineers that built the motor say 91+ is "required" and not "recommended"
like the others said, you might save 20 quarters at the pump each time but you're motor wont be running at it's full potential and you're MPG will suffer a little bit so you're not really saving as much as you think you would be since you'll be refilling slightly more often
the J32a3 and J35a8 found in the 3rd gen base model and type-s are considered high out, high compression V6 motors.. they run at 11:1 compression stock which is why the engineers that built the motor say 91+ is "required" and not "recommended"
like the others said, you might save 20 quarters at the pump each time but you're motor wont be running at it's full potential and you're MPG will suffer a little bit so you're not really saving as much as you think you would be since you'll be refilling slightly more often
I reset my ECU and started running premium soon after I bought mine, small but noticeable improvement in midrange and I get about 5% better mileage. Doesn't really pay for itself but don't care.
Last edited by Scottwax; 08-18-2021 at 01:39 PM.
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04WDPSeDaN (08-18-2021)
#60
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
iTrader: (1)
Don't listen to those that individuals. Remember the Type-s value is climbing and a really well kept 3rd gen TL will always sell for a pretty penny. So it's always worth it in the end. I always LOVE seeing clean 3rd gens. I'll break my neck if I see a clean one with a full A-spec kit driving past me. Such a timeless classic
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Marsalis Simms (08-19-2021)
#61
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
iTrader: (1)
Actually, according to the lead engineer on the 7th gen Accords, they were going to initially require premium and rate the motor at 250 hp vs 240. But since the Altima needed premium to make 240 hp and the Camry only made 225 hp, they decided to rate it at 240 hp and recommend regular.
I reset my ECU and started running premium soon after I bought mine, small but noticeable improvement in midrange and I get about 5% better mileage. Doesn't really pay for itself but don't care.
I reset my ECU and started running premium soon after I bought mine, small but noticeable improvement in midrange and I get about 5% better mileage. Doesn't really pay for itself but don't care.
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Scottwax (08-19-2021)
#63
UA7_Unknown
Don't listen to those that individuals. Remember the Type-s value is climbing and a really well kept 3rd gen TL will always sell for a pretty penny. So it's always worth it in the end. I always LOVE seeing clean 3rd gens. I'll break my neck if I see a clean one with a full A-spec kit driving past me. Such a timeless classic
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04WDPSeDaN (08-19-2021)
#64
Instructor
Okay, so I'm going to stop with the whining and just get the premium 92 octane. 92 is what we have here in western Washington. I've been getting gas at Safeway and a few 76 stations. Is there any good gas station that I should focus on going to? I've heard great things about Shell gas.
What are your guys' recommendations for best premium gas?
What are your guys' recommendations for best premium gas?
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Scottwax (08-19-2021)
#65
Mr. Detail
Don't waste your money on wax. Its dead. Optimum Hyper Seal will blow it away in looks and longevity. The new version is ceramic based (and not cheap so called ceramic products at Walmart, they are a legit ceramic coating manufacturer) that lasts about a year now. You have to get it from them.
This is how it looks on an E46 M3 after polishing with Hyper Polish.
All you'd need to do for a long time is wash regularly. You can also use it as a drying aid. Spritz on a panel prior to drying, will help dry the panel quicker and add protection.
The following 2 users liked this post by Scottwax:
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#66
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
iTrader: (1)
On the side? I've been detailing professionally since 1994.
Don't waste your money on wax. Its dead. Optimum Hyper Seal will blow it away in looks and longevity. The new version is ceramic based (and not cheap so called ceramic products at Walmart, they are a legit ceramic coating manufacturer) that lasts about a year now. You have to get it from them.
This is how it looks on an E46 M3 after polishing with Hyper Polish.
All you'd need to do for a long time is wash regularly. You can also use it as a drying aid. Spritz on a panel prior to drying, will help dry the panel quicker and add protection.
Don't waste your money on wax. Its dead. Optimum Hyper Seal will blow it away in looks and longevity. The new version is ceramic based (and not cheap so called ceramic products at Walmart, they are a legit ceramic coating manufacturer) that lasts about a year now. You have to get it from them.
This is how it looks on an E46 M3 after polishing with Hyper Polish.
All you'd need to do for a long time is wash regularly. You can also use it as a drying aid. Spritz on a panel prior to drying, will help dry the panel quicker and add protection.
Fantastic work!! Love those M3's. Similar color to my M40i. Two out of the three vehicles I own have been professionally paint corrected and ceramic coated. the one that isn't I tend to wax weekly. I just placed an order for the Opti hyper seal. Can I use it to refresh the ceramic coating?
This is the most current picture I have of my TL
Last edited by 04WDPSeDaN; 08-19-2021 at 01:50 PM.
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Marsalis Simms (08-19-2021),
Pair of TLs (08-19-2021)
#67
AZ Community Team
for the expected gas drama,
C&D did a interesting premium vs. regular on four vehicles (including a M5) in 2019 with performance results FWIW. Pretty interesting results, always amazes me how much modern ECU's manage ICE
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...dodge-charger/
C&D did a interesting premium vs. regular on four vehicles (including a M5) in 2019 with performance results FWIW. Pretty interesting results, always amazes me how much modern ECU's manage ICE
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...dodge-charger/
Some interesting octane comparisons between some modern vehicles.
Not as much difference as I woulda thought.
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Jim2301 (08-23-2021)
#69
Hello. If I may contribute my 5 copecks. I've actually done dyno runs with my J32A2 on different types of gasoline. And the difference was quite considerable.
Both dyno sessions took place within two days of each other, albeit on different dynos in different parts of my city. The machines themselves were of the same type (Dyno Dynamics), and since old Honda aren't necessarily super popular where I'm from - the community is pretty tightly knit, and the owners of these two dynos communicated with each other, they had cars going back and forth between them for power runs and ECU tuning. Apparently these dynos put out "ridiculously close numbers" (I'm directly quoting the first guy who I visited).
Dyno session number one (September 27th 2018) - my car puts out 282 horsepower. This was on 95 octane fuel (in my part of the world they measure octane rating differently, this would be the equivalent of US midgrade).
I was a bit disappointed with the result, which is why two days later I went in for a second session (but to that other guy's shop, it's just quicker and easier for me to drive there). In my disappoinment I tried to work out why the result wasn't as high as I'd hoped, and I identified three potential factors. The first and most obvious one was fuel. The other two - a slightly loose throttle cable (it wasn't super loose, but the butterfly valve was a couple of mm short of opening all the way at WOT), and slightly low pressure in one of the front tires (1.5 or 1.6 atmospheres I think it was instead of 2.2). There's no way for me to know whether the last two factors contributed in any way, or, assuming they did, how much of an impact they might've had. So, unfortunately, this makes for an experiment that isn't 100% clean.
As for how much power my car made the second time around - it was 301 horsepower at the crank. So almost 20 horsepower more, on 98 octane gasoline (equivalent to US premium). The engine itself had a few bolt-ons (J37A1 manifold, 70 mm TB, P2R headers, an exhaust, I don't think I had the ported lower runners back then, and I certainly wasn't yet running the UR crank pulley), nothing too crazy. So for what it's worth - again, the throttle cable and tire pressure might've played a role, but I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that fuel was the main factor.
Both dyno sessions took place within two days of each other, albeit on different dynos in different parts of my city. The machines themselves were of the same type (Dyno Dynamics), and since old Honda aren't necessarily super popular where I'm from - the community is pretty tightly knit, and the owners of these two dynos communicated with each other, they had cars going back and forth between them for power runs and ECU tuning. Apparently these dynos put out "ridiculously close numbers" (I'm directly quoting the first guy who I visited).
Dyno session number one (September 27th 2018) - my car puts out 282 horsepower. This was on 95 octane fuel (in my part of the world they measure octane rating differently, this would be the equivalent of US midgrade).
I was a bit disappointed with the result, which is why two days later I went in for a second session (but to that other guy's shop, it's just quicker and easier for me to drive there). In my disappoinment I tried to work out why the result wasn't as high as I'd hoped, and I identified three potential factors. The first and most obvious one was fuel. The other two - a slightly loose throttle cable (it wasn't super loose, but the butterfly valve was a couple of mm short of opening all the way at WOT), and slightly low pressure in one of the front tires (1.5 or 1.6 atmospheres I think it was instead of 2.2). There's no way for me to know whether the last two factors contributed in any way, or, assuming they did, how much of an impact they might've had. So, unfortunately, this makes for an experiment that isn't 100% clean.
As for how much power my car made the second time around - it was 301 horsepower at the crank. So almost 20 horsepower more, on 98 octane gasoline (equivalent to US premium). The engine itself had a few bolt-ons (J37A1 manifold, 70 mm TB, P2R headers, an exhaust, I don't think I had the ported lower runners back then, and I certainly wasn't yet running the UR crank pulley), nothing too crazy. So for what it's worth - again, the throttle cable and tire pressure might've played a role, but I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that fuel was the main factor.
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terryt5231
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09-11-2018 11:57 AM