Please HELP Iam Very Confused
11-17-2004, 03:57 PM
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Please HELP Iam Very Confused
I have been researching the 2005 tl and I have seen that many of you guys have a driveline issues. Has this problem been corrected for 2005 I need a car ASAP I want the tl but after owining a 2001 CL i just dont want the hassle of paying luxury and spending my free time at the dealers. Please let me know I read all the info posted but I'm confused about the 2005 TL's. Thanks
11-17-2004, 04:26 PM
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05's ??
Read many posts about 04's that didn't start to have problems till ~ 5,000 miles.
Acura hasn't said anything about finding/fixing the problem so I'd doubt that it's fixed in the 05's; but we won't really know for several more months.
I guess you pay your money and take your chances, seems to be a lot of 04's with no problems but if you get one with this problem you appear to be SOL. For now I won't take the chance.
Read many posts about 04's that didn't start to have problems till ~ 5,000 miles.
Acura hasn't said anything about finding/fixing the problem so I'd doubt that it's fixed in the 05's; but we won't really know for several more months.
I guess you pay your money and take your chances, seems to be a lot of 04's with no problems but if you get one with this problem you appear to be SOL. For now I won't take the chance.
11-17-2004, 04:44 PM
#3
Systems Overlord
I have a little over 1500 miles on my 05 at this time with no real problems. It may be that many of the problems were caused by the Bridgestones that were on all 04 and on the 05 non-navis. I have the Michilens on my 05 Navi, no driveline vibrations.
11-17-2004, 04:59 PM
#4
Not a Blowhole
It seems to me that if there were a pandemic issue with the driveline, the fact that this is Acura's bread and butter car would argue that there would be a lot of noise out there in car-land. There does not appear to be - the problems with the auto tranny in the 2G cars and early 3G's got a lot of publicity, and tons of posts on any number of Honda forums.
This just does not have that "feel" to it, but I could be wrong on that.
The engineer in me also questions the magic 5K mile statement - it could be tires, but peeps have reported that tire replacements did not fix their problem. It is likely not the engine, since engines tend to get smoother over time. Is it motor mounts? Could be, but that is easily checked by any competent service dept.
Where is the pattern? Some claim to have the problem from day 1, others say it pops up at 1x, 2x, 3x miles. And many report no problem at all. Given Honda's consistency in knocking out dead reliable cars year after year, and that there is nothing dramatically new on the TL's (same engine, same accessories, same tranny) then it would point to axle shafts, gears, or CV joints. I mean, there isn't all that much in there. Perhaps there has been a run of bad materials from suppliers - but my experience suggests that the parts mfr's themselves usually know about that, as they have a lot to lose if a major mfr dumps them as a suppliers - millions and millions of dollars at stake. Is Acura sitting on a run of bad parts?
Could be.
The 2003 SVT Cobras (The Terminator) had a run of bad driveshafts, somewhere around the 2-3 month of production, which started in April 2002. But these were aluminum, extra strong for the powerful engines. Ford Eng'g quickly determined the problem (perhaps on a tip from the mfr) and the dealers got Service Bulletins, and started replacing the bad driveshafts.
Has anyone done a poll to determine a pattern? Is it happening more on 6MT's or 5AT's? If it is found on both, that rules out a number of other variables.
Can the problem be duplicated on a lift with no load? Is the vibration worse going uphill, downhill? How about in a long sweeping turn? It is either an assembly problem on some cars, a run of defective part(s), or something a dealer should be able to diagnoise and correct in the field, aided by a Service Bulletin.
Need data - INPUT!
************************************************** *************
I would not be, and was not, concerned about buying a TL - I saw some of the "my car has the dreaded vibration" posts long before I shelled out my $31k cash in June. So I voted not only with my mind, but my wallet. AHM will get this straight, if indeed there is something to get straight.
If this were a Kia, I would surely have issues - they have been oin the brink of going under several times. Or a Yugo - who would ever have bought a car from a natyi9on in civil war - i mean, really? A 5-year old Olds would cost $4k then, and be a much better vechicle. I guess buying crap new rather than a good car used makes sense to some minds.
This just does not have that "feel" to it, but I could be wrong on that.
The engineer in me also questions the magic 5K mile statement - it could be tires, but peeps have reported that tire replacements did not fix their problem. It is likely not the engine, since engines tend to get smoother over time. Is it motor mounts? Could be, but that is easily checked by any competent service dept.
Where is the pattern? Some claim to have the problem from day 1, others say it pops up at 1x, 2x, 3x miles. And many report no problem at all. Given Honda's consistency in knocking out dead reliable cars year after year, and that there is nothing dramatically new on the TL's (same engine, same accessories, same tranny) then it would point to axle shafts, gears, or CV joints. I mean, there isn't all that much in there. Perhaps there has been a run of bad materials from suppliers - but my experience suggests that the parts mfr's themselves usually know about that, as they have a lot to lose if a major mfr dumps them as a suppliers - millions and millions of dollars at stake. Is Acura sitting on a run of bad parts?
Could be.
The 2003 SVT Cobras (The Terminator) had a run of bad driveshafts, somewhere around the 2-3 month of production, which started in April 2002. But these were aluminum, extra strong for the powerful engines. Ford Eng'g quickly determined the problem (perhaps on a tip from the mfr) and the dealers got Service Bulletins, and started replacing the bad driveshafts.
Has anyone done a poll to determine a pattern? Is it happening more on 6MT's or 5AT's? If it is found on both, that rules out a number of other variables.
Can the problem be duplicated on a lift with no load? Is the vibration worse going uphill, downhill? How about in a long sweeping turn? It is either an assembly problem on some cars, a run of defective part(s), or something a dealer should be able to diagnoise and correct in the field, aided by a Service Bulletin.
Need data - INPUT!
************************************************** *************
I would not be, and was not, concerned about buying a TL - I saw some of the "my car has the dreaded vibration" posts long before I shelled out my $31k cash in June. So I voted not only with my mind, but my wallet. AHM will get this straight, if indeed there is something to get straight.
If this were a Kia, I would surely have issues - they have been oin the brink of going under several times. Or a Yugo - who would ever have bought a car from a natyi9on in civil war - i mean, really? A 5-year old Olds would cost $4k then, and be a much better vechicle. I guess buying crap new rather than a good car used makes sense to some minds.
11-17-2004, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by tommyy2
05's ??
Read many posts about 04's that didn't start to have problems till ~ 5,000 miles.
Acura hasn't said anything about finding/fixing the problem so I'd doubt that it's fixed in the 05's; but we won't really know for several more months.
Read many posts about 04's that didn't start to have problems till ~ 5,000 miles.
Acura hasn't said anything about finding/fixing the problem so I'd doubt that it's fixed in the 05's; but we won't really know for several more months.
Rumor has it that the fix is not cost-effective to retrofit, so the only solution is to have Acura buy back your car. If true, this would certainly explain why they have been so quiet about it.
11-17-2004, 07:38 PM
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Road Rage I'm sorry but Acura is not as good at customer service as you say I lease two cars one was the 2001 Cl the other a honda Accord, the honda is the third new one in a row never had any problems with any of the hondas. The Cl was a disaster and customer service was even worse. That is the only reason I'm so concerned about the TL. Thank you guys for the info still waiting for more info.
11-17-2004, 08:32 PM
#7
Not a Blowhole
Originally Posted by xkactetx
Road Rage I'm sorry but Acura is not as good at customer service as you say I lease two cars one was the 2001 Cl the other a honda Accord, the honda is the third new one in a row never had any problems with any of the hondas. The Cl was a disaster and customer service was even worse. That is the only reason I'm so concerned about the TL. Thank you guys for the info still waiting for more info.
I tried to give you a broader, yet better defined, engineering perspective, but you seem to want anecdotes.
I have owned 10 Honda vehicles. 4 Accords (2 American made, 2 Japanese), 4 TL's (3 2nd Gen, 1 3rd Gen, all Amnerican made), an NSX (Japanese) and an S2000 (also Japanese).
The two that gave me the most problems were both Japanese made. So by the logic of an anecdote, Japanese cars "are a disaster". Yet, the Customer Service on the Acura NSX-T was outstanding - they made sure I got a 1st class loaner, and my car was returned not only with the main problem corrected to my 100% satisfaction, but detailed to the max, and an extension of 1-year on my warranty, neither of which I requested - they were gratuitous.
The 4 TL's had minor quibbles, but never left me stranded - I bought the 2004 based on the 3 previous American-made TL's. Following my own maintenance protocol, using lubricants I selected, and doing all the routine maintenance myself, I had no tranny problems, unlike many. And my 2004 has just over 4200 miles, so i guess it will shake itself to pieces in 754 miles. I plan to enjoy them.
My Japanese made Accord was "a disaster" - meaning it was not as flawless as the others. The tranny could not be fixed, and was replaced on the 3rd visit. An onconvenience, but they put me in my first Acura (an Integra).
So, there are the anecdotes - hope they are more helpful.
P.S. Just for fun I did a search on Google on Infiniti G35, and took the first result:
http://www.shopping.com/xPR-__2003_I...i_G35~S-2~PG-1
substitute 2004 TL and you will find [racically every malady in the "cons" as being talked about here:
vibration, no fold-down seats, leather, dealer accountability, etc.
The "Pros" are similar as well.
Do you get the point? Anecdotes make for good reading, but making a decision on them is risky. Some historical points:
1) The London Times in the late 18th century reported that the headless spirits of decapitated people from the Reign of Terror after the French Revolution searched at night for their heads, so their spirits could be at peace. They claimed to have had a reporter who witnessed this regularly.
2) Not long ago, most of the World's population believed the world was flat
3) A significant % of teenagers in the 21st century in the US believe a pregnancy cannot occur "doing it the first time".
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11-17-2004, 11:13 PM
#9
Instructor
Originally Posted by xkactetx
I have been researching the 2005 tl and I have seen that many of you guys have a driveline issues. Has this problem been corrected for 2005 I need a car ASAP I want the tl but after owining a 2001 CL i just dont want the hassle of paying luxury and spending my free time at the dealers. Please let me know I read all the info posted but I'm confused about the 2005 TL's. Thanks
B. Go for the TL. If you really do a search of this site, you will see BY FAR more satisfied customers/consumers than those that are not.
C. RUN-ON sentence(s), and FRAGMENTS. Expect the same of yourself as you do others that are postingl. This would help getting your opinion accross, I believe.
IMHO, of course...
($.02 added)
Good Luck
11-18-2004, 09:24 AM
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Thank you guys!! My concern was that I had many problems with the 2001 Acura Cl and I was about to sign a lease deal on the 2005 Tl 6spd with Navi when my friend suggested I should check out the forum for problems just to make sure I don’t have the same problems as before. When I got the CL I was on the first people to take delivery of the car and that might have been the reason that it was problem riddled usually first production cars seem to be. My moms 2001 Sentra is another first year production that is a night mare from bent wheels to constant shut-offs while in operation. I can go on for hours about first year productions that are just problem riddled because the manufactures are so anxious to put a product on the market. Again Thanks a lot for the info, I will probably try to get the car before thanksgiving. Just can’t wait to start doing the mods. Thanks 
Have an 04 and love it... nothing like it...
11-18-2004, 12:38 PM
#12
Instructor
Originally Posted by xkactetx
Thank you guys!! My concern was that I had many problems with the 2001 Acura Cl and I was about to sign a lease deal on the 2005 Tl 6spd with Navi when my friend suggested I should check out the forum for problems just to make sure I don’t have the same problems as before. When I got the CL I was on the first people to take delivery of the car and that might have been the reason that it was problem riddled usually first production cars seem to be. My moms 2001 Sentra is another first year production that is a night mare from bent wheels to constant shut-offs while in operation. I can go on for hours about first year productions that are just problem riddled because the manufactures are so anxious to put a product on the market. Again Thanks a lot for the info, I will probably try to get the car before thanksgiving. Just can’t wait to start doing the mods. Thanks
TRUST us, you will love the TL!
11-18-2004, 06:05 PM
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READ THE POSTS:
seems to be too many posts/too many different peeps to be bs
seems like a problem acura is handling the same way they handled the auto tranny fiasco
if you ain't got the problem better lite a candle and hope you don't get it cause if you do....SOL
thegabrielles
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Post #29
10-15-2004, 08:22 PM Well, this being my first new car and the first time I spent anything close to 33k, I think I might just want to go back to my cheap a$$ fords. I have two one with 240k miles and another with a LOT more, of course the 533hp will tell you there has been some work on that one. But if this is what my experiance with a 30k ACURA is going to be like I guess at least I knew what I was getting with the Fords...
My TL was driven by the service manager, in fact he drove it home that night to make sure there was no problem, I approved him doing it by the way. Nut it just seems crazy that a problem is ok just because all the other TL's have the same problem.
We will see what happens on my next appointment, It will be another week and a half before they can get me in. I will call on Tuesday to schedule another appointment. Taking the TL (vibrations and all) up to the North Georgia, North Carolina Mountains for a long weekend. Hopefully my three year old son will be screaming "woo-hoo go faaster Daddy" like he always does.
seems to be too many posts/too many different peeps to be bs
seems like a problem acura is handling the same way they handled the auto tranny fiasco
if you ain't got the problem better lite a candle and hope you don't get it cause if you do....SOL
thegabrielles
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Post #29
10-15-2004, 08:22 PM Well, this being my first new car and the first time I spent anything close to 33k, I think I might just want to go back to my cheap a$$ fords. I have two one with 240k miles and another with a LOT more, of course the 533hp will tell you there has been some work on that one. But if this is what my experiance with a 30k ACURA is going to be like I guess at least I knew what I was getting with the Fords...
My TL was driven by the service manager, in fact he drove it home that night to make sure there was no problem, I approved him doing it by the way. Nut it just seems crazy that a problem is ok just because all the other TL's have the same problem.
We will see what happens on my next appointment, It will be another week and a half before they can get me in. I will call on Tuesday to schedule another appointment. Taking the TL (vibrations and all) up to the North Georgia, North Carolina Mountains for a long weekend. Hopefully my three year old son will be screaming "woo-hoo go faaster Daddy" like he always does.
11-18-2004, 06:11 PM
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Acura TL Community by ACURAZINE > ACURA TL DISCUSSION > Third Generation TL (2004+) > How many owners experience the driveline vibration?
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View Poll Results: Do you have driveline vibration? (most of them are happening at 5AT)
No driveline vibration
04TLMan, 1violinist, 6spdzoomzoom, 6SPEED-TYPE-S, AcuraVic, acura_driver, Acura_zing, AERODRUMS, Alfred, aloedesign, baby_igor, Badgerbob, bb1802, bogn8r, BOSCH-TL, Brew99, Broly, Cdn04TL, chusteveb, crxb, DallasTL, dcarlinf1, ddehorn, Dean_P, demellie, Dirac, dnice, Doctored5, dwinnie, e46m3, ed99, epl16, etch12, flnsx, GaleForce, Gansmanms, Golfin' Man, golfingguru, grenouilleIII, haighworld, hypertech, imasquirrel, jazzpicker, jbergerud, JCommander, jdriver, jeremyhuang13, Jerky, Jim123, jime, Jimmy04, jobes, josie1, jpeart0, JPSMAN, Jss1, KitchenSink, Krypton Ken, leeherman, Les C, lrvace, markjrenna, Marlys, maxTL, Michigan Golfer, Mindcrime, MN CLS, Motoracer, murphy9173, Neorick, nesinevets, NoRespect, NOX 3.2, numexbigjim, ONAGER, otaypankey, paul revere, pchemist, planman, PyroPaul, realport, Red04TL, RepellR, Republican TL, rjlech, rkalbiar, Rkat, rmastbro, Road Rage, rsinisi, Salut, SilverSpike, SilverTL, sizlin, Slava, smr2112, soxx111, StealthSpeed, stikkyrice, Stikman, svtmike, thalasseri, tigetech, timtae, titlex, tizo, TLMike, TLspeed, tmitch2315, tms, Tommygun, twong11219, txex84, vtechbrain, wildchild_8635, wolftag, WoofyCub, xristos 118 37.34%
Minor driveline vibration
04SSMTLCanada, 05WDP, 1FasTL, 2004TL6SP, 92NSX, Aleong1967, Apollyon, awecp, BLACURATL, bliss, BlueStar, bodyshopguy, brucehallberg, Bucky O, casey2529, cbr, cdavec, cobra22, daikon38, Dave04TL, dhewitt, Donte99TL, dunno465, EluSiOn, glg, gzing2, imsv7, iyfphoto, jdimaria, jrecufan, JSMajzun, jtruman, judgecj, JWhite1301, Legend75, lroche, mmcowan, MNP, MrMagoo, nick04tl, Novice, nuttyirishman, orskier, panthersfan, phinphan, PuffyY, rets, RoadDog, rvoigt, s54, Sakuragi, Shemp, srhewes, Stewie, stock95accordex, SWO, synoil, Ted Johnson, Tedanddenise, TenaciousJk, TheMainEvEnt, TL n Sin City, TL42, TLPRINCESS, Troy36, VelfarreClubber, zcarguy 67 21.20%
Minor driveline vibration (I didn't feel it at Day 1 or first hundreds of miles' driving)
AA7483, alextclam, Aspector Gadget, Brewmaster, bughuntr, Cali04TL, cparris, cvajs, damats, deandorsey, Dobber, dsc888, edmiller9999, ghanaba, HuKaShI, iketl, jglei, KamTLer, Michaelvg1, milanored, mwm, Nodoze2004, NSX_SB, Osteoman, Ron A, rvmeush, SK MOD #6, Spryster, stevenr, tallrussian, TheOne305, UA66, varanelli, vha, wheelhead, willz822, Xpditor 37 11.71%
Serious driveline vibration
adin, a_bu_lo, badboy, BigBokey, BIGFISH, burn-one, C5Racer, cTLgo, cullal, cwcjr1, Davidoconn, dlf2365, ebloomponycar, egorss78, fuque, GoBig, grktl, grohstein, GTFISH, jeffwojo, Jinen, JohnDoe2, Karizma, koobreez, kwh, ludachrisvt, nc_stealth, need4spd, nimimbu, nirmul, qdog22, rrochlin, sailorZ, srpatel721, That Girl, tlicious, wrs, xboylive 38 12.03%
Serious driveline vibration (I didn't get it at Day 1 or first hundreds of miles driving)
akim31, ArcticFormula, Corn, Eduardo, esfry, GUMP, kaisjam, lindros2, lowlife, ne-fl-tl, pps, RixTL, ryder1650, TYPE-S BLAZE, U8INIT 15 4.75%
Serious vibration (too many vibrations, cannot really figure out where they are coming from)
jeovaz-TL, KawBoy, mason1125, MisterLawyer, NightRider, stevehil 6 1.90%
Yes, vibration, but not sure if that weird feeling is what you called "driveline vibration"
1blkowl, 2004tlinNY1, AFB, Ania, AnnapolisTL, cliff, darthferd, fostercw, GCOLONE, gyrus, ITL, jamilla, kdfrye, Kubrus, maddog136, Melny, pedalermike, RadRacerFL, ROC04TL, rwp1223, Shane_JL, stkbanker, tomhanx, Vanwall, Wavehogger, zoobobs 26 8.23%
Additional option: Minor driveline vibration; went away eventually
TL23 1 0.32%
Additional option: Serious driveline vibration; went away eventually 0 0%
Additional option: No significant driveline vibration, but only have annoying "droning sound"
AcuraTLjatt559, ahgil, DavePA, geminis2, Hollendorfer, mattlana, ticomba74, Xerxes480 8 2.53%
Voters: 316.
Acura TL Community by ACURAZINE > ACURA TL DISCUSSION > Third Generation TL (2004+) > How many owners experience the driveline vibration?
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View Poll Results: Do you have driveline vibration? (most of them are happening at 5AT)
No driveline vibration
04TLMan, 1violinist, 6spdzoomzoom, 6SPEED-TYPE-S, AcuraVic, acura_driver, Acura_zing, AERODRUMS, Alfred, aloedesign, baby_igor, Badgerbob, bb1802, bogn8r, BOSCH-TL, Brew99, Broly, Cdn04TL, chusteveb, crxb, DallasTL, dcarlinf1, ddehorn, Dean_P, demellie, Dirac, dnice, Doctored5, dwinnie, e46m3, ed99, epl16, etch12, flnsx, GaleForce, Gansmanms, Golfin' Man, golfingguru, grenouilleIII, haighworld, hypertech, imasquirrel, jazzpicker, jbergerud, JCommander, jdriver, jeremyhuang13, Jerky, Jim123, jime, Jimmy04, jobes, josie1, jpeart0, JPSMAN, Jss1, KitchenSink, Krypton Ken, leeherman, Les C, lrvace, markjrenna, Marlys, maxTL, Michigan Golfer, Mindcrime, MN CLS, Motoracer, murphy9173, Neorick, nesinevets, NoRespect, NOX 3.2, numexbigjim, ONAGER, otaypankey, paul revere, pchemist, planman, PyroPaul, realport, Red04TL, RepellR, Republican TL, rjlech, rkalbiar, Rkat, rmastbro, Road Rage, rsinisi, Salut, SilverSpike, SilverTL, sizlin, Slava, smr2112, soxx111, StealthSpeed, stikkyrice, Stikman, svtmike, thalasseri, tigetech, timtae, titlex, tizo, TLMike, TLspeed, tmitch2315, tms, Tommygun, twong11219, txex84, vtechbrain, wildchild_8635, wolftag, WoofyCub, xristos 118 37.34%
Minor driveline vibration
04SSMTLCanada, 05WDP, 1FasTL, 2004TL6SP, 92NSX, Aleong1967, Apollyon, awecp, BLACURATL, bliss, BlueStar, bodyshopguy, brucehallberg, Bucky O, casey2529, cbr, cdavec, cobra22, daikon38, Dave04TL, dhewitt, Donte99TL, dunno465, EluSiOn, glg, gzing2, imsv7, iyfphoto, jdimaria, jrecufan, JSMajzun, jtruman, judgecj, JWhite1301, Legend75, lroche, mmcowan, MNP, MrMagoo, nick04tl, Novice, nuttyirishman, orskier, panthersfan, phinphan, PuffyY, rets, RoadDog, rvoigt, s54, Sakuragi, Shemp, srhewes, Stewie, stock95accordex, SWO, synoil, Ted Johnson, Tedanddenise, TenaciousJk, TheMainEvEnt, TL n Sin City, TL42, TLPRINCESS, Troy36, VelfarreClubber, zcarguy 67 21.20%
Minor driveline vibration (I didn't feel it at Day 1 or first hundreds of miles' driving)
AA7483, alextclam, Aspector Gadget, Brewmaster, bughuntr, Cali04TL, cparris, cvajs, damats, deandorsey, Dobber, dsc888, edmiller9999, ghanaba, HuKaShI, iketl, jglei, KamTLer, Michaelvg1, milanored, mwm, Nodoze2004, NSX_SB, Osteoman, Ron A, rvmeush, SK MOD #6, Spryster, stevenr, tallrussian, TheOne305, UA66, varanelli, vha, wheelhead, willz822, Xpditor 37 11.71%
Serious driveline vibration
adin, a_bu_lo, badboy, BigBokey, BIGFISH, burn-one, C5Racer, cTLgo, cullal, cwcjr1, Davidoconn, dlf2365, ebloomponycar, egorss78, fuque, GoBig, grktl, grohstein, GTFISH, jeffwojo, Jinen, JohnDoe2, Karizma, koobreez, kwh, ludachrisvt, nc_stealth, need4spd, nimimbu, nirmul, qdog22, rrochlin, sailorZ, srpatel721, That Girl, tlicious, wrs, xboylive 38 12.03%
Serious driveline vibration (I didn't get it at Day 1 or first hundreds of miles driving)
akim31, ArcticFormula, Corn, Eduardo, esfry, GUMP, kaisjam, lindros2, lowlife, ne-fl-tl, pps, RixTL, ryder1650, TYPE-S BLAZE, U8INIT 15 4.75%
Serious vibration (too many vibrations, cannot really figure out where they are coming from)
jeovaz-TL, KawBoy, mason1125, MisterLawyer, NightRider, stevehil 6 1.90%
Yes, vibration, but not sure if that weird feeling is what you called "driveline vibration"
1blkowl, 2004tlinNY1, AFB, Ania, AnnapolisTL, cliff, darthferd, fostercw, GCOLONE, gyrus, ITL, jamilla, kdfrye, Kubrus, maddog136, Melny, pedalermike, RadRacerFL, ROC04TL, rwp1223, Shane_JL, stkbanker, tomhanx, Vanwall, Wavehogger, zoobobs 26 8.23%
Additional option: Minor driveline vibration; went away eventually
TL23 1 0.32%
Additional option: Serious driveline vibration; went away eventually 0 0%
Additional option: No significant driveline vibration, but only have annoying "droning sound"
AcuraTLjatt559, ahgil, DavePA, geminis2, Hollendorfer, mattlana, ticomba74, Xerxes480 8 2.53%
Voters: 316.
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Greengecko
3G TL Audio, Bluetooth, Electronics & Navigation
4
09-16-2015 08:19 PM
