Originally Posted by I hate cars

blah blah blah EPA bla bla bal

Originally Posted by I hate cars

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular but how many times does it have to be said to look at your average mph? "City" covers a huge range of conditions. Once again, I'm at 13mpg, 13mph. Back when my average was 30mph, my mpg was 26 mpg. I'm lucky to average 13mph around here. I've had it as low as 9mph over two months with 11mpg. People have written the city about the timing of lights. It's rare that you make it through one single green light on a trip. Imagine accelerating to 45-50mph and back down to 0mph for at least a minute every 1/4 mile. My parent's 4 cylinder Camry only gets 15mpg in this city. Some of our company F-150 trucks get 6-7mpg. For some people, "city" could mean a 30mph+ average. That's why just saying the word means nothing. Posting average mph is eveything.

When I'm on a familiar route and know the timing of the lights, I accelerate to 40mph and coast even when the light ahead is green because I know I can't make it (since I've tried 100 times in the past). If I were accelerating like most people do (pedal to the floor and then stomp the brakes) it would be even worse.

The EPA has guidelines for city driving, check them out. They're much better than my real world conditions in this city, starting and stopping at least every 1/4 mile.