JohnCollins

Sorry for this, but I did read the 3G Garage sticky on this and it appears that most of RoadRage's oil posts were from 2004, and I'm just wondering if he stands by his recommendations today. I couldn't find recent oil posts with the search function

RoadRage's posts are incredibly informative, although a bit, um, over my head. I find them convincing, however, especially aout the PC pressure from the EPA. If RR is still around, or if there has been more recent discussion of this, does he stick by the 10w30 recommendation?

I just bought a used '04 TL which is at 30K miles and I have a bunch of Amsoil 10w30 in my garage. I'm not an Amsoil nut, I'll use Mobil1, or Pennzoil, or RR's LE stuff, I just happen to have this in my garage and want to use it. It is such a nice car, however, I'd gladly switch my supply and trade my current oil to a garage for a discount on some service. Money isn't my issue. Keeping this car running for 200K miles is my issue.

I also want to know if I should replenish my supply with 10w30 when the time comes (about 3 more oil changes). Thanks, all, for any input. I apologize if this is readily available and I just couldn't find it.

Repecat

I have been using Havoline 5w-20 oil (the weight recommended by Honda) and Purolator filters in my 04 TL for several years. I also change the oil and filter at 5000 mile increments If I were in your situation, I would use up the 10w-30 Amsoil; it's good stuff and should not harm your engine. If you have an automatic trans., I would consider starting to change out the fluid before you have accumulated too many more miles. There are many posts on this topic, also.

Enjoy your car!

Repecat

If you do use the Amsoil, you can probably safely go 7500 miles between changes.

KilroyR1

I use Motorcraft (Ford) 5W-20 Synblend and change it according to the MID. I have an oil analysis stating the oil is suitable for continued use, so I have a healthy safety margin. It's about $9 for a 5-quart jug at Wal-Mart.

JohnCollins

Thanks for the replies! "Won't hurt your engine" is what I wanted to hear. I was fairly certain using my existing stock of 10x30 was OK.

I was just wondering if there were any recent updates to the '04 threads on oil weight. I guess I'll go back to the 5w20 when my existing stock is gone.

The tranny fluid was just changed by an Acura dealer. I bought the car used from an owner in Seattle, and had the Acura dealer there do the 30,000 mile service and check it out for me. That included changing fluids and filters, checking brakes, and etcetera.

Do folks here recommend changing the tranny fluid every 30,000 miles? I usually do my own oil, tranny fluid and air filter changes. I leave safety equipment like brakes to the shop. Thanks.

John

Repecat

From what I understand, Hondas auto trannies are not the best in the world, so not letting fluid get too old seems to be the thing to do. 30,000 miles for changeout is prudent. I drained my tranny at 20,000 miles (not a flush.....just drained and replaced 3 quarts) and will repeat at 25K and 30K miles. That should last me until 50 or 60 thousand.
Cheers!

JohnCollins

Hmmmmm. My tranny was refilled at the dealer, so I won't be doing this for a while, but shouldn't you do what you did four times? Meaning 12 quarts needed?

From my manual, page 209. . .

To thoroughly flush the transmission, the technician should drain and refill it with Honda ATF-Z1, then drive the vehicle for a short distance. Do this three times. Then drain and refill the transmission a final time.

I read this to mean, drain/fill/drive, drain/fill/drive, drain/fill, drive, then drain/fill/done. Four cycles.

JPC

Legend2TL

You're correct with your instructions. 3 drain and fills for the 5AT using the ATF-Z1. I'm paranoid about the Honda/Acura AT so in my wife's Honda Pilot I change the ATF every ~15K miles with the 3 drain and fills.

pimpin-tl

You have the perfect oil for your Honda. 10w30 would work fine for now. When you run out, switch to 5w30 or 5w20 with Amsoil. Amsoil makes the best oil in the market. So you can't go wrong there. www.bobistheoilguy.com is one of the best sites for oil information.

SodaLuvr

To reiterate from the manual, the three drain-n-fill method is a corrective procedure used when the owner has topped off the unit with Dexron III. The manual only recommends flushing the unit if it's topped off with Dexron III, and thus explains the flush procedure in the following paragraph.

Normal service is to drain and refill the unit once, and is done so between 60-70k miles when the Maintenance Minder recommends subcode "3," which is automatic transmission service.

I'd service the unit at least every 30k, solely due to its use and the "feel good" thing. It seems to be normal for the fluid to turn brown rather quickly in this unit with the genuine fluid, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

10w30 works fine, but any added benefits would be negligible to the average user so I'd stick with 5w20.

JohnCollins

Thanks for the clarification, SodaLuvr. I'm gleaning from reading RR Journals and on other sites that either 10w30 and 5w20 (of superior quality) will work without harming the engine. RR makest the case very convincingly, to my uneducated mind, at least. I just wanted to know if thinking has changed on that score since a couple years ago.

I'll use up my existing stock of 10w30, and think about it then. As this may well take me to 80-90,000 plus miles, I just might stick with 10w30 at that point as I can't think of a compelling reason to go to 5w20. In the past, on other car sites, I've read the 5w20 was recommended for newer engines only. If the 10w30 has been working for that long, I may not switch down to 5w20 at high mileage.

I'm confused by your comments about the tranny, however. I read in another RR Journal where he likes the Amsoil ATF. Please note, I'm not a brand fanatic. I'd use Mobil1 synth, LE (if I knew how to get it) synth, Amsoil synth, or Havoline or Pennzoil dinos. I just use Amsoil because I do a lot of business in Richmond, and there is a distribution center there and ever few years, I pay the preferred customer tarrif and load up my garage. It's awfully convenient!

That said, Having had a tranny in another car recently replaced, I like to baby them. So the Amsoil ATF I have in my garage stock says it's Dexron III and Honda Z1 compatible. Is your point that if I'm going to top off with any other brand of ATF, I should do the four cycles? Or only if it the new brand says it is Dexron III compatible, but not Honda Z1 compatible? Use small words, I'm not a gear head

Also, other than being a PITA, I wouldn't hurt anything by replacing more of the fluid with fresh, correct? If one cycle is good, three or four are better? I'm hoping to take this car at least to 200K and saving a few bucks by being miserly with fluids is not my strategy. I'd just as soon do more here if it adds marginal protection.

Thanks!

John

JohnCollins

Answered my own question, SodaLuvr, by rereading the manual, as you suggested. Apparently, they want you to do the full flush procedure if you top off with Dexron III that is not Honda Z1 compatible, as you said. Since the Amsoil stuff is Honda Z1 compatible, I guess I can go either way.

Just because I had to get a new transmission in another car this year, and because I'm picking up here that the 5AT is no great shakes as far as robustness goes. . . and because RR seems so enthusiastic about it, I think I'll do a complete changeover to the Amsoil ATF. May not be necessary, but I'm willing to pay for the fluid to get some peace of mind.

John

neuronbob

Why not just PM RoadRage? I'm sure he'd be happy to answer your question definitively and then post here for our edification.

JohnCollins

I guess because he's posted so prolifically, and I've so enjoyed reading his stuff the last few days. I know he gets tired of rehashing stuff, and I am sort of an "expert" on some other hobby forums I hang out in and I know I get tired of it, too.

He made quite an eloquent argument about engines not changing as fast as EPA 'encouragements' to the auto manufacturers, and I'm pretty comfortable using my 10w30 oil stock based on that. I figured if he changed his mind, someone would have posted here.

I appreciate the suggestion, Bob, but I'd just as soon RR think about and compose another post on something that interests him rather than assure a non-techie his thinking hasn't changed. I'm just trying to be courteous and not suck up his time on rehashing old oil stuff.

What a great forum this is, though! For guys like me who are not gear-heads, it's incredible to tap into the knowledge base around here. I love it! Still trying to get through the other 3G Garage posts. I've only had my TL for about 3 weeks now.

John

JohnCollins

Well, I just found a more recent post by RR stating he's now using a 0w30 in both his cars. I'm still reading around, trying to learn, but I'm gleaning the second number (30) is the one all the fuss is about. The argument is that the 20's are recommended for CAFE reasons, the 30's likely provide more engine protection. The front number is much less significant than the back number.

Am I learning rightly?? Most experts (not trying to get the cars to test at higher MPG) seem to feel a 0-5-10w30 is better than a 5w20? Just trying to see if I'm getting the important parts right.

I may use my 10w30 stock and then go to a 5w30 or 0w30. Still trying to read and learn more. This oil biz is tough stuff!

John

pimpin-tl

The 5w20 weight oil is more for gas mileage and emissions. 5w30 or even 0w30 is better than 5w20. 10w30 will work just fine. 0w30 might be too extreme for certain climates.

SodaLuvr

RR and I correspond regularly offline via e-mail. He is currently running Syntec 5w20 with the oversized OE filter for comparison purposes to GC 0w30.

5w20 does provide faster start-up lubrication than 0,5, or 10w30. Start-up is where much of the wear occurs. I agree, 0w30/5w30/10w30 may provide slightly better protection under extreme driving conditions such as racing, but for nearly all daily drivers, the benefits would be minimal and 5w20 may actually allow for better wear control due to its improved flow properties.

And please explain why you’d think 0w30 is “too extreme” for some climates. The 0 is merely in reference to its superior cold flow properties in comparison to other 5w30/10w30 oils.

JohnCollins

Thanks, Sodaluvr! I appreciate that update. I was reticent to PM RR because of the quality and proliferation of his posts. Didn't want to bug him with noobie nonsense.

That was a real clarifier for me. Learning about this oil stuff is making my hair hurt. Sounds like I started reading RR's stuff in '04 when the EPA memo came out, and it was only natural to be suspect of 5w20 recommendations after so many years of 10w30 recommendations from the manufacturers.

However, RR was posting about advances in dino, specifically by Pennzoil and Havoline and open to the possibility of 5w20 being OK, and after a couple years of watching decided it's probably OK. Good stuff! I won't ever really understand the deep stuff, but I'll follow recommendations from you guys all day long.

I don't know where I read this (I've been reading nothing but oil for 3 days) but someone said engines like the same oil without changing viscosity if at all possible. It's been using the 5w20, and I have about 3-4 changes of Amsoil 10w30 in the garage. Based on this thread, I'll use it then switch to 5w20.

Just because I'm anal and I can probably trade the 10w30 to my garage in return for having them do the labor on a couple changes for me, I'm not opposed to sticking with the 5w20. I guess I'm anal and uniformed, which leads to inability to make decisions.

If it was your car, would you stay with 5w20 now and trade the 10w30 for some labor, or use up the existing oil. I gotta believe I'm way overanalyzing this decision, but that's what happens when a neophyte gets extreme info-overload!

Thanks all.

John

P.S. By the way, it's 7 miles one-way to my office, but I routinely do 400-750 highway miles a week in business travel a couple times a month, if that makes any difference. I'm averaging 25,000 per year with daily commuting and lots of highway travel.

KilroyR1

FYI, 5W20 has demonstrated better shear stability than grades with a wider cold to hot viscosity range. Most 5W30 oils shear to a 20weight well before their intended change interval.

Just remember, oil specifications get tougher all the time and to meet them, oil companies are improving the base stocks and additive packages accordingly. Someday, cars may just specify straight 0W oil. Just because new oils are thinner, doesn't mean they are inferior.

I still use a full synthetic 10W40 in my track motorcycle, but that's a different story.

pimpin-tl

Keep in mind that it is possible for a given 0W-30 to be thicker than a given 5W-30 at starting temperatures other than very extreme cold.

Picking a 0W-30 over a 5W-30 does not guarantee that when you turn the key on a 65F day your oil is thinner.

In general a 0w30 should always be lower in viscosity than a 5w30, but when you compare specific oils you are correct that is not always true. The reason is that there is quite a wide range of acceptable hot viscosities to still be rated as a "30". The 0w30 should always have a flatter slope and if it starts out thinner hot it should increase that viscosity gap as temperature goes down.

The chart below is an example of how much individual oils vary but are still classed as the same 0w30 grade.




Basically to sum it up. 0w30 is more for cold climates. If you live in So-Cal or Texas you need to use 5w30 due to a more range of temps. Temps range from 30 degrees all the way to 110-115 in these states. And 0w30 isn't recommended for those high temps even though it will do the job.

INSPIRE 32V

iTrader: (1)

Would it be ok for me to use Royal Purple 5w20 in my 02 tl-s which has about 40k miles. and if not royal Purple than which other oil is the best of the best for these cars. and also do i need to do a radiator flush at this time. thankx is advance

pimpin-tl

IMHO, Royal Purple is a bit overpriced for what it can do. There are many better oils out there. Stick with Mobil 1 or Amsoil and you will be fine. Like some have said, even the SuperTech at Walmart is a excellent Synthetic for the price.