Hey all...I know some Honda engineers and I was asking them about:

*Oil changes and oil change intervals
*Benefits of using factory oil filters vs. aftermarket
*Benefits of synthetic vs. normal oils

Hope the following is good info for you. Take it however way you want. If something you've been doing for years has been working for you that's great. But I am going to stick with the following recommendations for my TL.

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Their advice to me for use in any Honda/Acura is:

Oil Filter: Use Honda filters. They say It has years of development history, market history, etc. The factory filters are almost always better able to filter more because of very stingent engine durability requirements. This is true not only for Hondas, but BMW's, Fords, GM's etc. Use the respective factories filters.

Oil: Use either Honda oil or any of the reputable Name brand oils of the correct weight required for the car. FYI about Honda Oils: With standard Honda oil the engine should last basically forever. When developing the car they use Honda Oils for all durability tests. Change your oil at factory recommended intervals.

If you want Peace of mind durability - Run a little thicker Honda oil, especially if driven hard.

If you want Extra Durability - Change the oil and filter regularly (more frequent than the factory recommended interval)

Basically as long as you're not racing or going too long on oil changes, you'll never see a difference in name brand oils vs honda oil. As long as the weight matches up, its fine. Just stay away from brands you've never heard of, and keep up to date on the oil changes.

Also stick to the manual's reccomendation for the first oil change, the extra assembly lube that is mixed in with the oil should help to break in the engine. After that, a switch to synthetic would not be a problem though considering the cost of it versus how long will you own the car, It probably wont pay off, but if it will just give you "warm fuzzies" then that is up to you. You probably wont see any mpg difference between syn and non with the same wt oil either.

For reference, BMW 3 series go ~15000 miles using Castrol synthetic, though they use a lot of oil, its well cooled, its 5w30 vs 5w20, etc.

(I had a '97 328 and I can attest to that....about 7qrts of oil for a 2.8 liter motor...The TL is a great car but man do I miss rwd..Throttle steering is a blast)

 

i go 10,000 mile intervals on mobile 1 synthetic. on my tl!

 

Wow, thanks for the great information in such a long detail. I don't know if I miss anything, but do you mean:

1. Use Honda filter
2. Use Honda Oil
3. Follow the manual recommendation for oil change

Thanks a lot, I don't think anyone would have thought of that without you tell us ... :thefinger

 

Neither Honda nor any car company makes oil filters. They buy them from the regular filter manufactures built to their specs/sizes then mark it up 100% to the dealer who marks it up another 100% to you. The same or nearly identical filters (sometimes better) can be purchased from the filter manufacturer at a parts store. Same for air filters and fuel filters which are very important as well.

I disagree. If thicker oil was better, Acura would tell you so. Why wouldn't they?

Actually, thicker oil causes more resistance to motion and therefore more heat and higher fuel consumption. It takes a smidgeon more horsepower to stir, pump, and slosh thicker oil as compared with lighter weight oil. This is more important in an air-cooled engine than in a water cooled engine. The temp of the water cooled engine is regulated by a thermostat.

Agreed. You can never be too thin, too rich, or change your oil too much.


XP

 

Full syn is the way to go, especially when it is for free

http://www.valvoline.com/pages/rebat...sp?rebateid=18

 

Hmmm ... Valvoline sounds like a drug dealer pushing crack. "The first one's free", but then you're hooked for life. I've heard that once you start using synthetics, you shouldn't go back to using reprocessed dinosaurs.

 

How about the oil in the 6MT transmission - is syn the way to go there?

 

That seems like a good deal but the Synpower does not come in the proper viscosity rating for the TL. The TL needs 5w-20. I don't see that on their website.

 

The TL - no car for that matter - NEEDS 5w-20.

Don't believe the hype.

There are few oils better than Amsoil 5w-30 or M1 5w-30. Why use a lesser oil?

 

A couple observations:

1. If they recommend changing oil more frequently than the recommended interval, why did Honda put the MID on the vehicle? I presume their engineers were the ones who developed it. If they don't want owners following it, then why bother to even develop it for, or include it on, the vehicle?

2. I doubt they would say anything else but repeat the corporate line on filters and oil since that is a profit item for Honda and they might get tweaked for phoo phooing the mantra if that got back to their handlers.

Thanks for the input, but I'll stick with the knowledge I've aquired about oils, filtration, and high pressure hydraulics over the last couple decades.

 

doesnt matter what tranny wou have, oil is for the engine, and yes syn is great even for you manual tranny guys

 

Pug,

FWIW, I just replaced the oil in my 6MT with Red Line MTL and, so far, the shifting is much smoother and the notchiness I was getting when the trans was cold has gone.

My initial impression is that the swap was worth the time and effort.

 

I wouldn't characterize a manufacturer's recommendation as hype. I agree with the Amsoil and M1 recommendation. Amsoil makes a 5W20 and Mobil makes a 0W20. Sure the engine will run on most any oil, but it doesn't make sense to deviate from the recommended viscosity unless there are specific reasons to do so.

 

Thanks for the info - I'm going to give it a try.

 

WOW! 10,000 miles!?!

Can you really go that far on synthetics? I want to know more about how much time before changes for synthetics. It would be great to get more miles out of synthetic oil vs. regular oil.

 

yes you can go that far on syn oil. they tend to hold up better than regular oil and do not breakdown or oxide. but between that 10K miles you should at least change the filter. doesn't matter if the condition of the oil if its dirty. i have a 3 series as well and 7 quarts of oil just seemed like overkill to me not to mention the extra dough i had to shell out for synthetic.

kosh2258:
where did you go to change the tranny fluid? i was thinking about doing this but the tranny is so damn smooth right now it almost feels silly.

 

I think you are confusing viscosity with quality. Thinner is not "lesser". By your logic, we should all use 90 weight.

I am convinced Mobil 1 is one of the best synthetics available. :worship: It comes in 0W-20. The "W" rating doesn't mean anything to me as I live in the land of perpetual summer.

I will support my belief by telling you I used it exclusively in the 14 year old Maxima I just sold. I sent it to the mechanic for a thorough inspection and engine check at 100,000 miles. He said the measurements haven't changed since it was new. On paper, he couldn't tell the difference between that engine and a new, unused one. That is what good maintenance with top quality products does. These Japanese engines will live forever if well maintained and the expendables are replaced periodically.

I expect to keep my TL at least as long.

XP

 

And how did he check this??? Did you have him tear down the engine and Micrometer the crank, bearings, pistons, cylinder walls, valve stems, camshaft etc....?????

Just checking....

 

he probably just did a compression check on the engine. you would have to take apart the head to disassemble the whole engine to check to see if the parts are still within spec. i doubt anyone would invest the time or money to do this as it's basically rebuilding the engine. the cheapest way is to perform a compression test and dyno the car to to see if it produces the same power as it did when it was new.

 

I don't want to dispute you but, a bunch a years ago Consumer Reports tested Oil filters down to micron sizes and found essentially most factory filters inferior to most name brand filters. I used FRAM for years now use Mobil1 Oil and Filters. May be waste of money, but I sleep better knowing I have superior products protecting my engine.

 

Those are the direct methods. He did compression checks (indirect indicator of valves, rings), vacuum checks (ditto), oil pressure (bearing wear), and, as a marine engineer, I always tested my old oil for metal/lead content. If a bearing, ring, valve guide, valve wears (any lubricated part), the worn off metal ends up in the oil. I routinely do this on yachts.

Of course, there have been traces in the oil, but only traces and, in combination with the other indirect methods, there was no material change from the original measurements.

If the engine were torn down and miced, I would expect similar results. In fact the Mobil 1 people with more money and more at stake than I, have done exactly that in published tests and the results were the same.

XP

 

Caball88;

I did it myself. I have the factory manual, the tools, and the equipment.

I've been doing much of my own maint. for years. The procedure isn't hard if you possess the tools and basic mechanical skills.

The only bothersome part is having to remove the battery and air cleaner assembly to access the filler plug. Not difficult mind you, it all comes out easily enough, but it is time consuming and proper tools a must.

I used Rhino ramps to get the front up off the ground, then jacked up the back end and used jack stands at the rear side jacking points to hold the car level.

 

Been a Fram guy for years. 265,000 Miles on my old pontiac tells me that they are OK to use.