Has anyone cross shopped these two vehicles. I've been reading here a while and havn't seen anyone mention the S60R. Its a 300 horsepower AWD car with an adjustable suspension. They can be had for $35,000 if you shop around. Everyone always compares the TL to a G35, and not much else. The Volvo seems like it would be a true contender, just thought I'd ask for some opinions??

 

I was interested in the Volvo until I sat in it. That extra couple of inches leg room in the TL is too important to me so I didn't even drive the Volvo. Beautiful car though. I love the flash green in particular.

 

How can U have the S60R for $35,000 when the Invoice price is $35,050 and the MSRP is $37,250? Thats just the base price. Add on all features available to semi-quasy equate to the features of the TL and your looking at atleast $42,000.

 

You'll be hard pressed to find a S60R for $35k as most are optioned out. Btwn $40-45 is more likely. Check out the Swedespeed R Forum for more information.

 

I realize that its a little more expensive, but any 04 leftovers can be had very cheap, damn near invoice I'd think. Its just that everyone here always says that they want AWD, with gobs of horsepower, and the S60R fits that. The TL is with Navi is $35,595, so the price difference isn't overwhelming. One plus with the Volvo is safety, and they are much more rare.

 

I wanted the S60R too. Test drove it. Test drove the TL. No comparison in my opinion. You have to do the same and make a decision for yourself. What I like you may not, what you like I may not. Opinions on this topic aren't worth much in my opinion. You are the one buying. You have to decide.

The TL may not have AWD, but that is the only thing the Volvo has going for it. Bug minus... it's a FORD AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

when i was in the car market a month ago i looked at the s60r and yeah its a pretty quick car... but the interior really is not all that great... try sitting in the rear with the seats properly adjusted in the front.. if you are over 6' your not getting in there...

i did ALOT of research into volvo as this would have been my first one. but i quickly learned that maintenance is HORRIBLE... yeah u only take it in twice a year but expect to pay no less than 300 per visit. overall the build quality is not that great and the cars seem to have alot of problems. people have also complained about the breaks as they claim they are brembos but they wear out ALOT faster than anything else out there...

overall i found the s60r to be a bottomless pit where you will throw pretty much all you got into keeping that thing running.... the thing may have 50airbags, 300hp and a few cool features but its not that great of a car to drive..... the TL takes it hands down...

 

Didn't the '04 TL just get a better crash rating than the Volvo? Volvo has tried to 'sell' safety but I don't think they have been keeping up.

 

When I had pretty much already decided on a TL, I had two cars that I had to rule out at the last minute. One was the G35 Coupe. The other was the S60R. The G35, I ruled out because the interior just seemed so... cheap. I LOVED the car from the outside, but I just couldn't bring myself to love the interior as well as the TL.

As for the S60R... it only became a "last minute" car because I had been looking at the C70, and hadn't really considered the S60R. After I had ruled out the C70, because of price, I was reading how the S60R had more HP than the TL, with AWD to boot, so I went back to the Volvo dealer to check it out. I sat in it for about 10 seconds, and headed out to the Acura dealer. I found the interior of the Volvo to be UGLY compared to the TL. Plus, the price was about the same as the C70, which I'd already ruled out because of price. On top of all that, I liked the lines of the TL's body much better than the Volvo. I still like the G35 Coupe's exterior better... but the TL's interior is SO much better that it swung my choice deep into TL territory.

 

I was cross shopping the TL and the S60r and as a few others have pointed out I traded 30 additonal hp, and awd for added piece of mind. The maintenance, resale value, and the fact that I was comparing a turbo charged engine (maintenance nightmare) to a non turbo sold me on the Acura. To top it all off the Volvo dealer wouldn't let me test drive the S60r!!! He stated they were "too rare, and too hot" to allow anyone to test drive them. I laughed at him and walked out of the dealership. I guess at 34 I didn't fit the typical Volvo demographic (typically mid 50's with a penchant for poetry and pipe smoking). Oh well the racy advertisement got me in the door, but it quickly closed....a missed chance to lower the median age of the owner base!!

Silly me I thought I fit the target audience that Volvo is looking to attract with this car???

Note to Volvo TEST DRIVES SELL CARS!!

It sold me on the 6spd TL!!

 

Yes, I was seriously considering the S60R and actually had a hard time deciding... I did test drive the Volvo several times and what finally did it in was the interior and the nav system, like others have mention it just doesn't measure up to the Acura's.

Price was very similar since I was looking at the Volvo under the X-plan and was getting the A-spec package with the TL.

After 2500 miles I do not regret my decision...

 

I traded in a TL-S for a V70R. I've had it a year in June. The car's been great (knock on wood) and been in the shop only once for a loose fuel cross-over pump connector. The interior workmanship and materials are by far better than Acura's. Style wise it's a matter of taste. All Volvo interiors are kind of Bauhaus modern and you either like it or your don't. I thought I'd miss the touch screen Navi but the joystick was easy to get used to and it's nice have the screen in your line of sight. I don't keep my cars beyond warranty so long term maintenance isn't a big deal to me. The car does come with three years of free maintenance though. The stereo is incredible and the build quality better than BMW's and M-B's I've owned. AWD -is- a big deal depending on where you live. I got up icy hills that SUV's with snow tires couldn't climb. Like someone else said, it all comes down to what makes you happy. BTW, after the Acura transmission debacle, throwing stones at other marques about reliability becomes a little shaky.

 

Interesting, although I feel the Honda/Acura system is the best, many have given the Volvo navi system equivilant or higher marks than the TL.

S60R has awesome brakes, too.

 

The S60R (and Volvos in general) is VERY underrated.

As for the previous Ford comment, the only parts of the S60R that Ford have a hand in is a) their position as parent company to Volvo and b) red carpet leasing availability. That aside, the S60R 100% Volvo. As evidenced by their product development, it seems that Ford is pretty hands off with Volvo product line. (Unlike GM's tainting of Saabs already tainted products.)

The comment about trading in '30hp for peace of mind' is not unlike ES330 buyers who feel they've traded in 45hp for Lexus refinement over the TL. (and he ES has more torque. ) But, it's all relative.

In my car shopping (currently ongoing), I'm considering the S60R as well. However, I'm not liking its exterior styling; particularly its rear end. It has to be one of the few sedans with an uglier rear than my 02 Maxima. (although the new Max tops the list of ugly rears)

BTW, Rodney is correct (sort of). My local Volvo dealership was willing to part with a demo S60R-nonNavi (4k) for $36G. So it can happen. IMO, for the same price (or more), I'd be hard pressed to get it over a G35X, TL and maybe CTS.

Peace.

 

Consumer Reports rated the 2004 TL the top upscale sedan in their top ten list of best cars to purchase!

 

MY04 S60R and V70R Volvos can be had at a substantial discount (if you can find one),as the they are taking orders for MY05. Having spent plenty of time test driving a S60R, they are kind of different animals. The TL has a double wishbone suspension, which to me provides a better ride for uneven paymen and city driving. The Volvos do not take bumps quite as well. I felt the seats in the S60R were better than the TL, but the overall interior of the TL is nicer. The AWD issue is kind of moot since the S60R will usually have the front wheels pulling the majority of the time. The 4C supension has been updated to provide a better ride.

I was in the same boat as you in deciding (v70R - kids), I just decided that I will stay in the Honda family (TL). Besides, I didn't want two volvos kicking me in the a$$ with high maintenance costs. My wife has a '98 s70 T5 auto (236hp).

If you want a "rare" car, the s60R may be for you. They only send a few thousand to the states and even less of the V70R. If you want a sleeper, get the wagon (V70R).

 

Ford/Volvo vs Honda/Acura

Your choice. Be prepare to fix the S60R if you're planning to keep it. Turbo + Ford => a reliability disaster waiting to happen.

 

nodoze2004
How many cars does that dealership sell. Cherryhill Volvo in NJ will toss you the keys and see you when you get back. They didn't even have a S60R tester. They asked me if i wanted a stick or auto and pulled it out with the plastic ans brake covers still on it.

 

It just plain seems like a silly design to put a 2.5 turbo in a big wagon. Mileage is not that great. It never going to be a really smooth engine. A better choice engine would be a nice 3.5-4.0 liter six like Nissan. The S4 Avanti is much more of a sleeper and conversation machine. I notice that Ford contribution is actually a price of increase for Volvo and Mazda with no real benefit.

 

Six or seven mos. ago there was $6k in rebates and dealer incentives available on the S60R sedan in our area. A totally loaded model could be had for 37k. I seriously considered one but my days of using a 5 or 6 speed are finished secondary to incurable laziness. The auto model is very undesirable because they had to de-tune it so as not to trash the tranny.

 

Holy sheet I used to live in Cherry Hill, right outside of merchantville, how are things in the area?? To answer your question Winter Park Volvo is THE Volvo dealership in this area.
It may have had more to do with the timeframe than anything else. The car had literally JUST been released and had just arrived at the dealership, to top it all off it was black as well. The salesperson offered to allow me to drive a 'similar' car, but not the S60R. Again I left laughing and never looked back.

I always considered the S60r to be a viable choice, but there were some issues that I couldn't get past (the dealer was the last straw). When comparing Acura to Volvo there are some general observations that still stand:

1. Volvo resale value is NOT as high as Acura
2. Volvo as a whole has more maintenance issues than Acura (I don't drive automatics)
3. The joystick in the S60r looks queer....you know it does

I will say that I saw one on the road the other day and really liked it, but do not regret my decision in the least. I have never owned a turbocharged vehicle, but from what I hear (regardless of mfg) they entail higher maintenance than non turbo automobiles.

One last point but isn't discounting a sign of lack of demand??? Granted it is the end of the model year, but even so the TL is not being heavily discounted whereas the S60r is?? Makes you wonder how long the 'sport' devision of Volvo will continue on!

 

maybe i ll try a volvo after i m 40 years old. for now, i m not getting my ass in a volvo

 

SAME HERE! I walked into the Volvo dealership (cross shopping the TL & S60R at the time) and got the cold shoulder when asked to test drive it.

Trust me...my experience was ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE! Too long to explain but to make a long story short, I will NEVER buy a Volvo ever in my life! The treatment I got from not only that dealership but also Corporate (yeah, it was that bad), I said no way!

I finally got an apology from the owner of that particular dealership (he was very sympathetic) and even he agreed that not allowing a test drive of the S60R was ridiculous. He said, "it's not that great of a car!" Yeah, he said that! He invited me back down to test drive the car but I thanked him for his time and declined. I know I got this treatment initially b/c I looked young too. I was still 27 at the time so what the hell! and could have paid cash for that damn car! What a stupid salesman!

If I was still in the market for this car, I would definitely take the TL. That was what led me to check out the Acura lineup to begin with.

Also, I really don't care for the back end of Volvo. Those tail lights look funky to me but I got used to them.

I say go with the TL and not just b/c of my bad experience with Volvo but the TL really is the best car for the money and the look of it, inside and out can't be beat.

Nick

 

Volvo's biggest problem is electrical gremlins. Just as in past modes (S70), they blow bulbs and fuses on a regular basis. A coworker of mine buys bulbs by the gross and keeps them in the trunk. While under warranty, one of the bulbs responsible for lighting the instrument cluster went out requiring 5 hrs work to replace it.

Volvos are nice, comfortable seats and have all wheel drive (Haldex system used also by Audi and soon to be SAAB), but they are a pain to repair.

 

My girlfriend has an S70. Granted, built before Volvo cars ownership went to Ford but what a piece of crap! Electrical problems galore, rattles everywhere, and so forth.

Based on this experience I would not buy a Volvo. Some folks will say that build quality may have improved since they are owned by Ford.

Also, the interiors do not even come close to the TL's interior.

 

I thought about the S60R. I had the usual hesitation about buying a Volvo at my age, and all of the reliability problems. Anyhow, by the time you option out the S60R, it costs a fortune. Also, whats up with the shift lever on the manual tranny? Has anyone tried to shift that thing?

 

S60 R is a great car. But it's in the $43-45k range as posted above.

Standard S60 is lacking. Has a lot of great features but the TL is superior - at a comperable or lower cost.

 

I test drove both back in March. The Volvo dealer was willing to knock $8,000 off the $45,500 sticker to move the car, which had been in his showroom since October, 03. I almost bought but decided the payments would overextend my budget more than I was comfortable with. I loved the looks, power, 3 year free maintenence, seats, and the back headrests that dropped at the push of a button. I didn't like the suspect reliability and that, plus a lower payment on the TL, swayed my decision. I don't regret it either as my TL has been perfect. But the S60R is a great car. Test drive them both a bunch and decide what really matters to you in regards to transportation wishes and need.

 

I did not like the joystick, and also the screen did "seem" a lot smaller. Part of the problem was also the salespersons unfamiliarity with the navi system.

I do agree about the brakes.


In my area there is basically two Volvo dealers, one of them was not very interested in catering to people that might find the "R-models" interesting, they had none in stock and really did not know much about them. The other dealer had several in stock and also two demo cars (one manual, one AT) that I both took out for a drive. The salesperson was also very helpful and knowledgable (except when it came to the Navi system). I also test drove the car at a dealer in Sweden, which was a totally different experience altogether...

 

Everyone keeps saying the Volvo is going to be costly to own and is prone to break-downs? First off, there is a 4 year 50k bumper to bumper with free scheduled maintenance. Secondly, most people don't keep cars more than 4 years.

0-60 in 5.4 is pretty sweet! Plus, its a sleeper. The web-site says it has 13" brembos! It doesn't have the blue tooth or XM. Im just playing devils advocate.

 

Driven the S40, S60, S80 as far as volvos go and cost. Your better off getting a S80T6 good power and more room and comfort for the ride. Was Looking between the S80 and the TL and went with the TL due to all the added features and it is sportier than the S80. But was not too impressed with the 40 or 60. Too much road noise and overall uncomfortable ride for the price tag.

Just my feed back from someone who also likes the last generation of Volvo's and has family members that own them.

 

I intended to try out the S60R but the sales guy wanted a deposit before he would let me test drive it. I decided to beg him. Yeah right.

 

I agree with that statement completely. I expected a soft ride, but not a noisy ride. I also sat in the back seat and man that is tight.

"The TL is da bomb!" Not my character to say that, but what else can one say about a car that is AWESOME!

Maybe we shouldn't let Honda know how good their TL is. They may raise their prices!