Just thought I'd post a couple of examples of single source car tests (1/4 mile racing results) that were taken as "gospel" at the time, only to be exposed as "ringers" years later by those who built and/or tested them.

1964 GTOs ran 0 -60 in 4.6 seconds and ran 13.1 second quarter miles - bone stock. "Car and Driver" said so. No other source did. (They all got mid 14s or higher), but most people wanted to believe the fastest time and lots of cars were sold as a result. The truth came out decades later by the PR man who made it all happen.(Open link and scroll down a little):

http://www.contes.com/ccvmore.htm

1969 440/6 Pack Superbees ran high twelves @ 111 MPH. "High Performance Cars" said so. That was (and still is) taken as "gospel" and you'll find it quoted as such on many of the "fastest musclecar" links on the web. Sadly, the truth behind the charade is missing, as is the case for many similar results from that era.

http://www.homestead.com/sixpacksixb...stspage10.html

The actual driver and editor who was on the scene came clean decades later...Turns out it was a specially prepared "ringers" designed to sell cars:

http://www.homestead.com/sixpacksixb...stspage11.html

This kind of nonsense is far less prevalent in the U.S. today, given the realities of our litigious society and the prevailing threat of class action lawsuits. (What goes on in other countries is anyone's guess.)

Never believe a single source - particularly if the results seem "suspicious." That goes for Acura TLs and every other car (or item) sold on the planet.

 

NOTE:

I won't be posting responses or "debating" this issue. Take it for what it's worth or dismiss it altogether.

 

Yup, I agree with you for once! haha. In fact, I only believe in what professional drivers have done, not results from average Joe's or car journalists. Only the pros know how to bring out the max for each car.

 

Thought you were done with this?

Even after you drag a thread down into a pissing match that has to be locked, you can't let go. Your typical SOP - grab a fact and pound it into the ground while arrogantly ignoring everything else. Working with you must be a real treat ( ).

In your arrogance do you assume that the readership here can't make an informed opinion in the face of conflicting statements? Well, we can. You don't have to beat the same fact into the ground over and over. Make you point, post your source and move on. But you can't.

It's the same BS that you pulled here 3 or 4 years ago and it hasn't changed a bit. Since you've been back the past few months, you've had at least 3 threads locked because you won't say your piece let go and move on. These are the hallmarks of a Troll.

The rest of you guys: Look him up. A constant stream of the same arrogant, self-serving, arrogant BS in thread after thread after thread. Look at some of the old threads; he hasn't changed tactics a bit in 3 years.

 

wow, never knew about that man. And now we are exchanging PM's.....

 

Not sure what you're talking about here or why you're cutting/pasting text from other links.

I posted two road tests that to this day remain staples of the "muscle car" myth. Old tests like that are rare, interesting and, in many cases, can teach us important lessons.

The 440 6 pack articles are particularly interesting because they involved the driving skills of Ronnie Sox, who was a preeminent PROFESSIONAL driver in the NHRA "Super Stock" Classes during that era. (Google "Ronnie Sox".) Chrysler Corporation even introduced a series of advertisements that were based on those (bogus) results and appeared ion virtually every enthusiast magazine of the era. Ironically, the most popular ad was entitled, "Plymouth Tells It Like It Is." Turns out they didn't; they told it like they WISHED it was in order to sell cars.

What was sold to the public as a high 12 second/111 MPH car was, in truth, a high 13 second, ~ 102 MPH car. The one-off factory ringer that was driven by Sox for the magazine was considerably hotter due to the sneaky modifications that had been performed, as detailed in the article I posted (re: "Return to Cecil County.")

Here it is 40 years later and many of the Mopar "muscle car" fans still quote those times as though they're gospel...That's because many people choose to believe what they WANT to believe while suspending reality in the process.

 

Here's another link on the bogus 1964 "Car and Driver" GTO test car:

http://www.classicfastcars.com/modul...rticle&sid=265


A Little Background


The year was 1963. Pontiac had just released its Pontiac Tempest GTO for the 1964 model year and was looking for a way to promote it. Car and Driver was a small automotive enthusiast magazine looking for a interesting article to increase their sales. They approached Pontiac with an idea: pit their new Pontiac Tempest GTO vs. a Ferrari GTO. Jim Wagners, head of Pontiac marketing, jumped at the chance and sent the magazine two "prepared"GTO's. Meanwhile, the magazine couldn't locate any Ferrari GTOs to test, so they just tested the Pontiac's and compared them to fictional Ferrari GTOs. After extensive testing, Car and Driver declared that "Ferrari never built enough GTOs to earn the name anyway -- just to be on the safe side though, Pontiac built a faster one." The "official" test times were unbelievable: 0-60 in 4.6 seconds and the quarter mile in 13.1 seconds @ 115 mph. These results made the Pontiac Tempest GTO a sensation overnight and made Car and Driver the "every man's" magazine.


The Truth


Although the article pointed out that the GTOs that were tested were only "mildly" prepped by Royal Pontiac, no other magazine or customer could match those test numbers with stock GTOs. Both Pontiac and Car and Driver insisted that the numbers were accurate. It wasn't until 30 years later that the truth came out: the numbers were not as accurate as they should have been. First of all, Car and Driver, in its infancy, was testing with stop watches. There was plenty of room for human error, and looking back, you can see that human error certainly did exist in these testing procedures. But the main reason for the unbelieveable times was that both GTOs test were ringers. Jack "Doc" Watson of Hurst Performance fame, made this statement in a 1994 interview in MuscleCars magazine regarding the GTO that was actually featured in the pages of Car and Driver: "That car had a 421 in it, not a 389, and if anyone tells you different, they are full of hot air!" But it was Jim Wagners, five years later in his book "Glory Days," that finally confessed that the test cars were indeed specially prepped by Royal Pontiac and included 421 engines. Jim Wagners noted that "yes, I did install a 421 H.O. Tri-Power engine in the red Royal Bobcat Car and Driver test car."

 

If anything, a thread of this nature belong in the Car Talk forum.