neuronbob's one year update
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From: Cleveland area, OH
neuronbob's one year update
Everyone grab a beer or a lemonade, this is going to be a LONG post.
I took delivery of my 2004 Acura TL, VIN # 00168X, on 10/3/03. It's been a short and wonderful year with the car and I still look forward EVERY DAY to driving it. As some of you old-timers on the board recall, I have been giving regular updates on my car in order to alert anyone to possible quality shortcomings, and to give people an idea of what a typical TL owner can expect as far as reliability. I n this report, I will be discussing reliability, interior issues, handling, and (briefly) exterior. My previous updates, just for reference:
TLs are in Cleveland!
1st week
1 month update
3 month update
6 month update
9 month update
Falken ZIEX ZE512 review
A-Spec suspension review
I have 19192 miles on the car as of tonight. My current average mileage in 60%/40% freeway/city driving is 23-24 mpg.
RELIABILITY (as measured in visits to the dealer): My car has been exclusively serviced by my dealer. I have been to the dealer six times in the last year for service, all but two for either routine service or addition of mods. First oil change came at 6439 miles, nearly five months after purchase ($39). The next visit was in May, at 9637 miles, for replacement of my Turanzas with real tires--Falken ZIEX ZE512s, then balancing them ($69). Third visit was a month later, for installation of my A-Spec suspension kit, at 11079 miles, with an alignment ($390). Fourth visit was a month later, for my "B" service, at 12710 miles ($169).
My first unexpected dealer visit was in mid-August, and was because my windshield wiper motor died (warranty work--FREE to me). The dealer kept the car for ten days because the part had to be ordered. The second unexpected visit was a couple of weeks ago, and consisted of a FREE inspection of the suspension and rotors because of an odd noise I'd noted. Nothing was found, and the tires were blamed. I plan on having them rotated at my next routine service, which will likely be this month because the MID currently reads "<20%".
In short, if not for my mods and the unexpected visits, I would have visited the dealer only twice. Keep in mind I drive A LOT of miles for my job and because I love road trips, so I have more visits than you might have. Car seems reasonably reliable to me. My dealer's service department, though imperfect (the accidentally left the clips to the back seat broken after my A-Spec install--their only major error), does a great job as a rule, treats me like a king, and aggressively pursues any issues I bring up. I'd definitely recommend them for service. If you're keeping up with the math, my routine service cost $208. Not bad for 19.2k miles!
INTERIOR was love at first sight, and I'm not tired of it yet. The only issue I have is that even with fastidious cleaning, the carpet on the driver's side still has salt residue on it. Unfortunately, it's unavoidable as I live in a cold climate. I've got permanent butt prints on my driver's seat. Picture is forthcoming. Even so, the seat remains quite comfortable, even on long trips like the one I took to NYC last weekend. No back problems, major leg pain, or deep venous thrombosis
yet from seat position. I've had various rattles that all resolved themselves or were not what I thought they were: I had the infamous driver's window rattle for a while during the summer, but it's completely gone. I had the glove compartment rattle during the winter but it also resolved on its own. I had what I thought was a headliner rattle, but I found that it was the passenger's side seat belt buckle banging against the B-pillar. The solution was to put the buckle in its holder after the wife's visits to the passenger seat. I do have the rear deck rattle when music is only moderately loud. I haven't bothered to fix it yet, but I'm sure I will eventually.
I don't use DVD-A much in the car, as it turns out, but having DVD-A surround sound inspired me to buy a home theater system. That bug is still biting, and HARD. I don't even use the iPod/iTrip combo much in the car. I am big on XM radio, and this makes up about 90% of my stereo time in the car. The recent deal with $60 for one year was a godsend. Those of you who are pinching pennies by not keeping this activated after three months are making a HUGE error--the variety of music and talk available makes local radio, and even my iPod, useless in the car.
The navi is great, but not perfect. On my recent trip to New York, it properly showed me the way from the Lincoln tunnel to my hotel, and back when I was leaving. It led me onto the Triborough bridge accidentally when I was trying to get onto FDR. I'm not sure whether it was just my unfamiliarity with the local traffic pattern, however, Even so, when I've used the navi locally, it tends to plot a route that is a bit longer than what I usually take. To its credit, though, it automatically adjusts when I ignore its instructions and take a different route. I generally use it only if I don't know an addy in town, or I'm in an unfamiliar city.
HFL gives me fits some days. It often takes 2-3 tries for the phone number or menu entry to take what I say, but when the system works, it totally rocks. I'm still waiting for Motorola to release a Bluetooth upgrade for my V710 phone that allows it to broadcast battery and signal strength, but neither of those features was a showstopper for my phone.
HANDLING. Original review is linked at the top of this page. The longer I have the A-Spec suspension, the more I love it. Unfortunately, I have to wait for my road trips to really throw the car around in the curves because the Cleveland area is lacking in windy roads. I got to test the A-Spec last weekend when I drove to NYC from Cleveland. As many of you recall, I-80 through Pennsylvania is twisty, especially in far western PA and far eastern PA in the Poconos and through the Delaware Water Gap. I was taking a lot of the turns at 80-85 mph with total stability, and (more importantly) without the wife noticing a thing. I slowed down, of course, for the steeper turns in Delaware Water Gap. The understeer was MUCH less with the A-Spec than with the base suspension, the steering effort greater (a positive for me), and the body roll almost nonexistent. Best of all, the ride quality became more compliant after about three weeks with the A-Spec kit, so there is truly minimal compromise of ride quality with the A-Spec kit.
The Falken tires I have are much noisier than when I bought them nearly 10k miles ago. Inspecting them, there is no excess wear, and they stick nearly perfectly on both dry and wet pavement. They add to my confidence in handing the car in the situation described above. As long as they do their job, I'll be satisfied. However, I may pay the money for the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S next time around.
EXTERIOR revealed no paint problems. I scraped my front bumper in March and paid to have it repainted perfectly. Last week, after I got back from NYC, someone scraped my rear bumper (SOB
) and left some deep gouges on the driver's side. I'm amazed this didn't happen in NYC! Anyway, I'll be spending more money to get it touched up again soon. Otherwise, the car still looks good and I still hear the occasional compliment.
To conclude, I just want to say that I acknowledge taking a gamble by buying an early build of a brand new car design, but that gamble appears to have paid off as I have experienced good reliability. The interior of the car has held up nicely, as it has had only intermittent rattles, all gone now. The exterior has done well for a year in a major urban area. The handling is superior to the stock feel. While some other early-build owners haven't shared my luck, I think I represent the majority enjoying their car and its reliability. I am continuing to enjoy my car every day and hope most of you are, too.
Thanks for reading! Any questions, just ask. I will sticky this over the weekend because the reliability issue is so important, then unsticky it.
I took delivery of my 2004 Acura TL, VIN # 00168X, on 10/3/03. It's been a short and wonderful year with the car and I still look forward EVERY DAY to driving it. As some of you old-timers on the board recall, I have been giving regular updates on my car in order to alert anyone to possible quality shortcomings, and to give people an idea of what a typical TL owner can expect as far as reliability. I n this report, I will be discussing reliability, interior issues, handling, and (briefly) exterior. My previous updates, just for reference:
TLs are in Cleveland!
1st week
1 month update
3 month update
6 month update
9 month update
Falken ZIEX ZE512 review
A-Spec suspension review
I have 19192 miles on the car as of tonight. My current average mileage in 60%/40% freeway/city driving is 23-24 mpg.
RELIABILITY (as measured in visits to the dealer): My car has been exclusively serviced by my dealer. I have been to the dealer six times in the last year for service, all but two for either routine service or addition of mods. First oil change came at 6439 miles, nearly five months after purchase ($39). The next visit was in May, at 9637 miles, for replacement of my Turanzas with real tires--Falken ZIEX ZE512s, then balancing them ($69). Third visit was a month later, for installation of my A-Spec suspension kit, at 11079 miles, with an alignment ($390). Fourth visit was a month later, for my "B" service, at 12710 miles ($169).
My first unexpected dealer visit was in mid-August, and was because my windshield wiper motor died (warranty work--FREE to me). The dealer kept the car for ten days because the part had to be ordered. The second unexpected visit was a couple of weeks ago, and consisted of a FREE inspection of the suspension and rotors because of an odd noise I'd noted. Nothing was found, and the tires were blamed. I plan on having them rotated at my next routine service, which will likely be this month because the MID currently reads "<20%".
In short, if not for my mods and the unexpected visits, I would have visited the dealer only twice. Keep in mind I drive A LOT of miles for my job and because I love road trips, so I have more visits than you might have. Car seems reasonably reliable to me. My dealer's service department, though imperfect (the accidentally left the clips to the back seat broken after my A-Spec install--their only major error), does a great job as a rule, treats me like a king, and aggressively pursues any issues I bring up. I'd definitely recommend them for service. If you're keeping up with the math, my routine service cost $208. Not bad for 19.2k miles!
INTERIOR was love at first sight, and I'm not tired of it yet. The only issue I have is that even with fastidious cleaning, the carpet on the driver's side still has salt residue on it. Unfortunately, it's unavoidable as I live in a cold climate. I've got permanent butt prints on my driver's seat. Picture is forthcoming. Even so, the seat remains quite comfortable, even on long trips like the one I took to NYC last weekend. No back problems, major leg pain, or deep venous thrombosis
yet from seat position. I've had various rattles that all resolved themselves or were not what I thought they were: I had the infamous driver's window rattle for a while during the summer, but it's completely gone. I had the glove compartment rattle during the winter but it also resolved on its own. I had what I thought was a headliner rattle, but I found that it was the passenger's side seat belt buckle banging against the B-pillar. The solution was to put the buckle in its holder after the wife's visits to the passenger seat. I do have the rear deck rattle when music is only moderately loud. I haven't bothered to fix it yet, but I'm sure I will eventually.I don't use DVD-A much in the car, as it turns out, but having DVD-A surround sound inspired me to buy a home theater system. That bug is still biting, and HARD. I don't even use the iPod/iTrip combo much in the car. I am big on XM radio, and this makes up about 90% of my stereo time in the car. The recent deal with $60 for one year was a godsend. Those of you who are pinching pennies by not keeping this activated after three months are making a HUGE error--the variety of music and talk available makes local radio, and even my iPod, useless in the car.
The navi is great, but not perfect. On my recent trip to New York, it properly showed me the way from the Lincoln tunnel to my hotel, and back when I was leaving. It led me onto the Triborough bridge accidentally when I was trying to get onto FDR. I'm not sure whether it was just my unfamiliarity with the local traffic pattern, however, Even so, when I've used the navi locally, it tends to plot a route that is a bit longer than what I usually take. To its credit, though, it automatically adjusts when I ignore its instructions and take a different route. I generally use it only if I don't know an addy in town, or I'm in an unfamiliar city.
HFL gives me fits some days. It often takes 2-3 tries for the phone number or menu entry to take what I say, but when the system works, it totally rocks. I'm still waiting for Motorola to release a Bluetooth upgrade for my V710 phone that allows it to broadcast battery and signal strength, but neither of those features was a showstopper for my phone.
HANDLING. Original review is linked at the top of this page. The longer I have the A-Spec suspension, the more I love it. Unfortunately, I have to wait for my road trips to really throw the car around in the curves because the Cleveland area is lacking in windy roads. I got to test the A-Spec last weekend when I drove to NYC from Cleveland. As many of you recall, I-80 through Pennsylvania is twisty, especially in far western PA and far eastern PA in the Poconos and through the Delaware Water Gap. I was taking a lot of the turns at 80-85 mph with total stability, and (more importantly) without the wife noticing a thing.
I slowed down, of course, for the steeper turns in Delaware Water Gap. The understeer was MUCH less with the A-Spec than with the base suspension, the steering effort greater (a positive for me), and the body roll almost nonexistent. Best of all, the ride quality became more compliant after about three weeks with the A-Spec kit, so there is truly minimal compromise of ride quality with the A-Spec kit.The Falken tires I have are much noisier than when I bought them nearly 10k miles ago. Inspecting them, there is no excess wear, and they stick nearly perfectly on both dry and wet pavement. They add to my confidence in handing the car in the situation described above. As long as they do their job, I'll be satisfied. However, I may pay the money for the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S next time around.
EXTERIOR revealed no paint problems. I scraped my front bumper in March and paid to have it repainted perfectly. Last week, after I got back from NYC, someone scraped my rear bumper (SOB
) and left some deep gouges on the driver's side. I'm amazed this didn't happen in NYC! Anyway, I'll be spending more money to get it touched up again soon. Otherwise, the car still looks good and I still hear the occasional compliment.To conclude, I just want to say that I acknowledge taking a gamble by buying an early build of a brand new car design, but that gamble appears to have paid off as I have experienced good reliability. The interior of the car has held up nicely, as it has had only intermittent rattles, all gone now. The exterior has done well for a year in a major urban area. The handling is superior to the stock feel. While some other early-build owners haven't shared my luck, I think I represent the majority enjoying their car and its reliability. I am continuing to enjoy my car every day and hope most of you are, too.
Thanks for reading! Any questions, just ask. I will sticky this over the weekend because the reliability issue is so important, then unsticky it.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,631
Likes: 0
From: NYC
nice review neuron, got a question for you. how did you like the a-sepc suspension in nyc? i know last time you said if was a little firmer than the stock and the ride would be a harsher. since you drove in manhattan how was that like?
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 119
Likes: 4
From: Orange County, CA
Man, has it been a year? I remember checking in to this forum in September 03, and first seeing your posts NeuronBob, which helped me get excited about the TL and, ultimately, purchase one. Manythanks for the thoughtful reviews.
never stops!
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,531
Likes: 4
From: Bay area, CA
Great review Bob. I'll rach mine in another two months. Only have one intermittent rattle in the console area somewhere. Other than that no problems whatsoever.
As I said earlier in this forum, the newness is not wearing off at all. Everyday I'm looking forward to drive this car. It's FUN FUN and FUN and never ends and never will I guess. If it will end ever, I'll start all the mods. I've not bought anything for the car yet other than clear bra and tinting and tonns of cleaning material and protectants. But I'll get following enventually,
1. Pedals and shift knob
2. V1 or 8500
3. 18" wheels I'm leaning towards 05 A-Spec in Silver
4. Springs
5. Body kit (waiting for ROnJon)
LEt's see how I can accomodate all this.
As I said earlier in this forum, the newness is not wearing off at all. Everyday I'm looking forward to drive this car. It's FUN FUN and FUN and never ends and never will I guess. If it will end ever, I'll start all the mods. I've not bought anything for the car yet other than clear bra and tinting and tonns of cleaning material and protectants. But I'll get following enventually,
1. Pedals and shift knob
2. V1 or 8500
3. 18" wheels I'm leaning towards 05 A-Spec in Silver
4. Springs
5. Body kit (waiting for ROnJon)
LEt's see how I can accomodate all this.
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Thread Starter
Senior Moderator
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Cleveland area, OH
Originally Posted by caball88
nice review neuron, got a question for you. how did you like the a-sepc suspension in nyc? i know last time you said if was a little firmer than the stock and the ride would be a harsher. since you drove in manhattan how was that like?
Jog....V1. I was once skeptical, but once you've tried the directional arrows, you find they are NOT a gimmick. It is really useful to know WHERE the radar signal is coming from as well as whether there is one. The new 18's look nice, but I'm saving for a big home project. I'll probably go for 18's next year, along with Michie Pilot Sport A/S...
Thanks for the comments.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 479
Likes: 0
From: Cherry Hill, NJ
Awesome review!! Thanks!
I've only had my 04 for a month (just cracked 1100 mles), but I kinow I'll still get all giddy about it 11 months from now...lol
I'm also looking into the suspension and have read your initial review; VERY helpful!
I haven't decided yet if I will go with the full A-Spec treatment or not. I might do it piecemeal...I really want the body kit and the wheels, but I have to decide if I want to spend the money all at once (probably get a better install price if I do it all at the same time), but OUCH; $$$!
I have a couple rattles as well (passenger door area..) but hopefully they will fix themselves like some of yours.
Anyway, keep us posted on your car! I love this forum!!!!
I've only had my 04 for a month (just cracked 1100 mles), but I kinow I'll still get all giddy about it 11 months from now...lol
I'm also looking into the suspension and have read your initial review; VERY helpful!
I haven't decided yet if I will go with the full A-Spec treatment or not. I might do it piecemeal...I really want the body kit and the wheels, but I have to decide if I want to spend the money all at once (probably get a better install price if I do it all at the same time), but OUCH; $$$!
I have a couple rattles as well (passenger door area..) but hopefully they will fix themselves like some of yours.
Anyway, keep us posted on your car! I love this forum!!!!
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Cleveland area, OH
Originally Posted by baby_igor
Regarding the floor mats, did you ever consider the all-weather ones?
an Acura has-been
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,224
Likes: 6
From: Hmmmm......
Bob,
All I can say is that I wish I had your car, they should have sent mine to Ohio and yours to me. Just a few digits different, and a big difference in cars. Just kidding, I would not wish my car on anyone
I understand that mine was resold and has thousands more miles on it now. I hope they got it cheap, and are enjoying the mods.
All I can say is that I wish I had your car, they should have sent mine to Ohio and yours to me. Just a few digits different, and a big difference in cars. Just kidding, I would not wish my car on anyone
I understand that mine was resold and has thousands more miles on it now. I hope they got it cheap, and are enjoying the mods.
Thread Starter
Senior Moderator
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 20,067
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From: Cleveland area, OH
Originally Posted by need4spd
Bob,
All I can say is that I wish I had your car, they should have sent mine to Ohio and yours to me. Just a few digits different, and a big difference in cars. Just kidding, I would not wish my car on anyone
I understand that mine was resold and has thousands more miles on it now. I hope they got it cheap, and are enjoying the mods.
All I can say is that I wish I had your car, they should have sent mine to Ohio and yours to me. Just a few digits different, and a big difference in cars. Just kidding, I would not wish my car on anyone
I understand that mine was resold and has thousands more miles on it now. I hope they got it cheap, and are enjoying the mods.
By the way, the missing front fender lining I told you about on my car is supposed to be missing--it's now plastic instead of that felty stuff on newer VINs, it was replaced on mine and I just didn't notice.
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
From: Plano, TX
Thanks for the even-handed report, Bob. It's refreshing to see someone patient (and realistic) enough to know that some rattles, etc. will work themselves out. It's also good to hear from someone who doesn't bad-mouth their car for not being absolutely perfect (whose is?). Too bad some of the other early VIN owners weren't as lucky as you...
Glad to see you're still loving the car. I look forward to joining you in the one-year club (only 9 more months to go!).
Glad to see you're still loving the car. I look forward to joining you in the one-year club (only 9 more months to go!).
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Posts: 170
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From: USA
Why did you replace your EL42's at 9K miles? I mean if you really hated the tires why did you wait so long.
I hate the EL42's on my car and I'm considering replacing them with 512"s. Three trips to the dealer and they say everything is normal.
I hate the EL42's on my car and I'm considering replacing them with 512"s. Three trips to the dealer and they say everything is normal.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Cleveland area, OH
Originally Posted by Vanwall
Why did you replace your EL42's at 9K miles? I mean if you really hated the tires why did you wait so long.
I hate the EL42's on my car and I'm considering replacing them with 512"s. Three trips to the dealer and they say everything is normal.
I hate the EL42's on my car and I'm considering replacing them with 512"s. Three trips to the dealer and they say everything is normal.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 432
Likes: 0
From: Lake Hartwell, SC
Originally Posted by neuronbob
I wanted to give the BS Terroranzas more than a fair chance. They started hydroplaning at just over 9k miles, and at that point it became a matter of safety to replace the tires. If I hadn't been one of the first to buy the car, and had known that these tires were POSs, I would have traded them as soon as the car came off the lot. Luckily, those who came later learned from my experience and others'.
I have been reading your posts for a while and you always give a honest review.
I am considering the Falken 512's but your comments on noise may send me to the Falken ST-115's. (what do you think??) I opted for the HPTs on my 6 MT and they have been fine so far (12K miles) but it will not be long before I need new rubber. Thanks to you early adopters, I skipped the "Terroranzas"
Lakeman
2005 WDP TL
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 709
Likes: 0
From: Baton Rouge, LA
I am so close to pruchasing a set of tires for mine. I am glad to hear you say that you would have sprung for the Pilots, I think I may do the same. After that I will install the A-spec suspension for a stock look. Once again thanks for the heads up!
Thread Starter
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From: Cleveland area, OH
Lakeman, since you live in a warm-weather state, the ST-115s may be just fine for you as these are "high performance", summer tires.. The 512s are not bad tires, but the set I have has become noisy over the last 10k miles. Even so, I plan to keep them until they wear out as their grip is better than what I started with.
Kyle, I really will likely end up springing for the Pilot A/Ss next year. (by this time next year I expect to have 40k miles, and it'll be time to change tires again anyway). The A-Spec suspension is simply the best upgrade you can make for this car. It's got more than enough power for me, but the handling leaves much to be desired. I therefore concentrated my mod efforts on the suspension, and they've paid off.
Kyle, I really will likely end up springing for the Pilot A/Ss next year. (by this time next year I expect to have 40k miles, and it'll be time to change tires again anyway). The A-Spec suspension is simply the best upgrade you can make for this car. It's got more than enough power for me, but the handling leaves much to be desired. I therefore concentrated my mod efforts on the suspension, and they've paid off.
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