pphunck

so, i was driving my fiance home and this g35 coupe was riding my butt so damn close. we got off the same exit and when we got to a two lane road, just took off. my fiance HATES when i drive aggressively so i just let it go.

as i turned out of my fiance's subdivision i see g35 lights a 1/4 mile behind me. the lights get closer and closer and we hit a one lane road and this g35 is riding me too!

we get to a two lane road stop light and i look across the way it's the same mofo! he's inching his car up as he's waiting for the green. now im just annoyed as hell. the light turns green, i take off and in front of him into the freeway. now we're both flooring it. i hit 130 mph and i see him trying to catch up. by now im about to hit my exit so i just let him pass.

i have to say that i am impressed with the type-s...now if it were a g37, i woulda gotten spanked, right?

my fiance says that i need to grow up. i think i need some hp mods, any suggestions?

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

grow up... .eh...

just be careful man and know your limits.. im always up for a nice red light pull... but with the woman in the car? ill probably never do anything wild again

JCL622

yea man be careful. it's not just putting someone else in danger...i had a ex grab my arm cuz she got scared (when i had the 350Z)...that's really dangerous...

just be glad you're safe this time, and dont risk it with other ppl! not to mention, if he's alone and you got two people in the car, that's already a disadvantage to you

nokiaboy808

i spanked 2 6spd G35's with my 06 6spd TL on the highway and on the street. the TL-S 6spd would have no problem imo.

pphunck

i wouldn't race with her in the car! i had already dropped her off @ her house and then saw the same g35. that's why it was so funny! he annoyed the crap out of me the first time that i couldn't hold back from gunning it when i saw him the second time.

i am still wanting advice on good hp gains w/o spending an arm and a leg & nulling my warranty...my car has extended warranty. I have yet to talk to the service manager (i should bring him a box of krispy kremes).

btw: fiance wouldn't let me get the 6-spd. she gets motion sickness easily!

THTL

iTrader: (2)

no street racing please. too dangerous.

JCL622

power:
CAI - 15hp
TB Spacer - 1-5hp
Pulley - free's more power to your wheels
J-pipe - 10-15hp
ATLP or Excelerate exhaust - 5-10hp

CAI is about $300, spacer and pulley together is $345 via paypal with Excelerate
J-pipe (excelerate is developing one, aznbo has one) $450

ATLP or excelerate exhaust - about $1200

aside from that get some light alloy wheels and good tires.

all together about $3000 and you have a car that is ALOT faster.

286+ another 40-50 HP you're looking at some nice gains

granted my math is a bit fuzzy i can't remember the exact pricing for all the stuff

pphunck

thanks for the info!

cai really adds 15hp? i had a one on my tsx and i dont remember it gaining that much.

tb spacer? wth is that?

i saw the atlp thread and it looks/sounds nice.

if my fiance can tell the difference from inside the cabin, i'm screwed.

alot faster = how much faster?

btw, which cai do ppl recommend. ive searched through the previous posts and there really isnt any info (only opinions). i dont want one that i have to buy separate pieces for it (i think aem needs some rubber piece?) also don't want to sacrifice low-end tq.

thanks again for all the info!

vincethe1

^^lol, cop already got into the thred and warned you hahaha

i hear you though, 140 in a tl comes up so fast you don't even notice it you think u doin 110 or sumthin

S PAW 1

Wreckless Operation=Loss of license
Fiance leaves because you didn't grow up and can't take her out to dinner.
When you get license back, you can't afford to take new GF out to dinner because your insurance rates are so high.

Yep, you get spanked.

vincethe1

damn, is that what happend to you? shit that sucks + u're 54 so you don't really have another shot at this sad sad sad

rimz

i don't know about a CAI adding 15hp...maybe 8-10hp...i noticed a huge difference, though, after my AEM CAI was installed....which is also my recommendation for CAI..not that I have any experience with fujita, injen, etc., but the AEM one has been said on here to have the most raw power...

tb spacer = thermoblock spacer...basically keeps heat away from your engine so it runs cooler...

as for how much faster your car will be, i can't say...but you will definitely notice some good acceleration gains, especially after a pulley install...hell, my car warms up so much faster since mine was installed, so it's obviously spinning a lot quicker than the stock one was...i've only got an AEM CAI and UR pulley and it is so much quicker (and louder)...i need to get the tb spacers, though...then i'll probably be done with this car as far as performance...

vincethe1

I actually saw a dyno (idk if it was AEM, but it was something famous like that for our TLs) that adds 20hp, to the wheels....i didn't beleive it eather but atleast you got the bragging right of a dyno sheet haha

FiveLiterCheater

I doubt it adds 20whp lol....6-7 is more realistic. The new J-pipe coming out for our cars adds about 8-9whp and like 14wtq

I noticed a nice improvement with my comptech exhaust and AEM intake though....deff picks up when the RPM's get up there

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol if you install the exhaust, I think your fiance will notice :P

ILLustriousUA6

iTrader: (2)

LMAO... o man, nice job.. Good thing you came to the forums as you'll see a lof of these guys on here have the same problem with their wifes/fiance's. You will see stories as well, so good luck.

rimz

grow up? ...that's just a woman's way of trying to change a man...by making him feel like an immature little kid...seriously, there's nothing wrong with beefing up your car a lil and racing against someone else...just do it in a safe manner and when she's not with you...

Bearcat94

You're both right.

nyclio

Well, coming from a G35 to a TL-S, I have to say, I think it would come down to driver ability more than the cars themselves, but those G35's are so easy (and so much FUN, but not so cheap) to mod - and if it's a modded G, then you'd probably be in over your head.

RWD > FWD

The G's are excellent in the twisties as well...

kosstick

RWD > FWD maybe but a TL beat the new G's on the track and the Is350...

FWD > RWD on the track?

Dave_B

No. In one test, the TL-S outguns the G35 on a road course, but every other test you read has the G outgunning the TL-S by a decent margin. At 8/10s driving, the cars are comparable. On a real road course, there's just no denying the advantage of a chassis with RWD 52/48 split vs a FWD chassis with a 62/38 split. Physics are physics and you can only ask those front tires to do so much. The TL is just one mod away from being a great entry-level sports sedan and that would be making it RWD. Honda is just silly for not doing this. Hell, they made the 3rd gen look like it's RWD, why not do it for real? Wake up, Honda! We all know you can kick butt with RWD.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol this debate has been discussed for so long but so far there's only one test driven by the same, professional race car driver and that's the one where the TL-S won...I don't know..I still think results from the pros are more convincing than car journalists...a good example would be, Jeremy Clarkson with a Jaguar X-Type can lap the Nurburgring at 10 min, the M5 Taxi driver, when driving the Ford Transit, can lap the ring with just 20 something more seconds. Pro vs car journalist, big difference IMO.

May be Willow springs is just a very good course for the TL-S, who knows...or the G35 and IS350 are not designed for that course...but I think we should give some respect to the TL-S, at least it's up there with its RWD competitors, let's keep it at that.

Costco

RWD pretty much beats FWD in any sort of race, especially drag racing. Keep in mind that Tsuchiya was driving the TL-S and he's almost in a league all his own.

RWD is better in every single way except for weight, cost, and complexity. Those 3 reasons are why Acura chooses FWD, it weighs less, costs less and is easier to package. There are other advantages too, such as more passenger space & better in the weather but those don't pertain to dry-track performance.

How many JGTC cars are FWD? NONE. How many are RWD? All of them. Historically pretty much every single motorsport aside from rally has been dominated by RWD. F1, JGTC, DTM, even NASCAR. FWD was popular in rally waaaay back in the days of the original Mini, but now pretty much all rally cars are AWD.

1 single instance of a FWD car with slight disadvantages on paper beating 2 similar RWD cars shouldn't be fooling anyone. I'm not discrediting Acura or Tsuchiya but RWD is just better. FWD vs. RWD - same driver, same amount of power to the wheels, same weight, chassis & suspension tuned by the same engineers, etc. the RWD car will win every single time.

Like Dave said, there is no overcoming physics.

FiveLiterCheater

Given all those things are the same, but keep in mind although Tsuchiya was driving, the TL-S weighs the most and has the least HP and TQ by a decent margin. That usually puts most cars at a HUGE disadvantage from the start, but the TL-S still managed to beat both the IS350 and G around the track by almost 2? seconds. And if any driver is RWD biased, it would be Tsuchiya. In fact, driving a FWD would really challenge his skills since its not often that he pushes one around the track.

Manual Transmission

The guys who are saying that the G35 performs better in the track than the TL Type-S 6MT are retarded...

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

No, the article says Tsuchiya drove all 4 cars (including the RDX, and yes, I can read a little bit of Japanese). So IMO that's as fair as it can get, really.

What you can say is, may be it takes a professional driver to exploit the most out of the TL-S. Normal test drivers/car journalists/car enthusiasts like us just aren't skilled enough. Don't blame Tsuchiya or that article, or the cars, blame ourselves for the lack of skills.

In a RACE car, or sports cars, yes, RWD is better than FWD in terms of performance 90% of the time, if not all the time. It's verys simple, F1, arguably the fastest race machine on a track, is RWD. But again, we are talking about sedans only, and there are a lot more variables/factors other than the drivetrain layouts.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

In the end, Honda has been making FWD sports cars for quite a while, whether it's the DC2, EK9, EP3, DC5, or the new FD2, all of those simply outclass others in terms of lap times.

Yes, there's no overcoming physics, it's just that some cars "use" the most out of the physics, while some cars do not.

Manual Transmission

iforyou summed it up well.


Unfortunately there are way too many people think the G35 is automatically better because it's RWD. That would have to be the most absurd assumption. Not only it's a cost saving for Honda to stick with the FWD platform but it actually works in handling. They left it like that for a reason. The professional Japanese driver mentioned in this thread also proved this to be true. Even for Nissan, one of the most successful cars were Nissan Primera GT(equivalent to Infiniti G20) in the BTCC and ASTC events. It's a Front Wheel Drive, and has incredible handling. It is widely used in the road course tracks, tracks with steep curves. Honda Civic and Accord are also excellent examples for this application. These cars are equipped with super tuned suspensions and 300HP engine and does best job in tracks in Europe and Australia. I would choose the TL Type-S 6MT over Infiniti just because of the handling performance, not the drag racing.

Manual Transmission

And to the OP, you don't want to beat the car like that even at 600 miles. I would give it good 1000~ 1300 miles for a breakin period.

pphunck

thanks for the info...im @ 815 miles now and have been taking it relatively easy (not by choice, but i will keep your comment in mind manual transmission). i still get ppl that want to race me, but i wont do it with my fiance in the car.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Thanks

Even now, in those touring car events, you can see FWD cars like Mazda6, Honda Accord, Alfa 159 (I believe) and others compete well with BMW 3 series and other RWD saloons.

Again, I am not saying FWD is > RWD. It's just that there are occasions , although not very often, that FWD can be > RWD, and that is more so with street cars. Another great example is how the new FD2 Civic Type R can smoke the new S2000 Type S (CR in North America) at Tsukuba by roughly 2 seconds.

Costco

Despite the extra weight and less power, you have to keep in mind that a FWD powertrain has the advantage of less parasitic drivetrain loss. Again, assuming the same people built the drivetrain components, same tires, etc. a FWD car with 300 hp, 300 lb/ft of tq will beat a RWD car with 300 hp, 300 lb/ft of tq car from a roll every single time. So the power disadvantage is not as great as you'd expect.

I'm not discrediting the TL-S, it was a great showing by a FWD car. Its just that I've yet to be convinced, maybe I haven't driven the right FWD car yet. There have been several instances where driving at the limit I felt the FWD understeer during a sharp corner and its a scary feeling, one that I would not like to get used to. I have driven quite a few production cars, stock and modified that are FWD and RWD, and from my experience, throttle steer > torque steer

Beating the IS350 wasn't much of a surprise. Most editors, who can't even exploit the limits of cars like the pros do (As many of you said) complained about the understeer in the IS350 even with all TCS/stability control nannies off. I'm still confused about the G35 though. Great engineering by Honda, I guess.... its a shame that Acura didn't make the TL a RWD.... we can only imagine how impressive it would have been then. In the end, Lexus, Infiniti and Acura all get spanked by BMW production car-wise, which is predominantly RWD.

The domination of Mazda and Acura with their FWDs in the touring car circuit is impressive though. What's really embarrassing is that Audi was almost a non-competitor despite the races in rain and poor track conditions. FWD has made many great advances but the inherent disadvantages are too great for me to consider one. Some have the money, skill and time to engineer out the disadvantages of a FWD.... money that Mugen has. By the way, I thought it was the Mugen Civic RR that outran a S2000 CR, correct me if I'm wrong... I couldn't find a source of the regular CTR beating the S2000 on Tsukuba.

Finally, the OP was drag racing.... as far as we're concerned AWD rules that segment too, with RWD coming a close 2nd, and FWD essentially a non-competitor in the higher ranks. Which is why you stick to highway runs.... though those are more or less a competition of which car has a better power to weight ratio and gearing.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea, not only that FWD loses less power, but recently Honda has been underrating their engines too, may be that's another reason.

I can definitely see where you are coming from, most FWD would understeer like mad at the limit, and RWD brings in a different kind of fun that FWD cannot do. But I was also surprised to see how the TL-S oversteer with just braking in the video, Tsuchiya said it was probably due to cold tires.

Yea, the IS350 isn't really that fast, it is still a Lexus afterall, and Toyota probably still wants it to be on the comfort side. As for the TL, it seems like Honda won't "give up" on its FWD layout unless it's completely outclass by its RWD competitors, which might not be a good thing for a lot of people. Now I am not sure about the 335i beating the others, from what I've seen on Tsukuba, the G35 has beaten it once. But then keep in mind that's a Japanese track so it's understandable that the G35 has a bit of an advantage there.

In March 2008 BMI, they had race where a normal CTR, Modulo CTR, Mugen Civic RR, S2000, and S2000 Type S were competing at Tsukuba. All 3 Civics passed the S2k's within the first 2 laps. Try searching the video at youtube or google. Besides, the CTR is within 1 second of lap time difference at Suzuka against the NSX Type S Zero.

Ken240sx

How do you figure that AWD rules drag?
As far as I'm aware the fastest drag times are all put down by RWD vehicles.
AWD looses a tremendous amount of power to the wheels and is harder to launch.
AWD is perfect for rally, a moderate drag car, and a great street car imo.
From a roll, does it really matter how many wheels are spinning? As long as you have traction it comes down to weight and power to the wheels.

Manual Transmission

That's right. The 6spd TL is the *KING*. It really is. Most importantly, this is not an exaggeration, but a fact. King of the Kings.


.

I hate cars

Agreed. I agree with everything Costco said except for that quote.

AWD is great to a point for drag racing. Many factory AWD cars start converting to RWD at the 9-10 second range. I've got my RWD car set up good enough that on the street I can launch as good or better than an AWD and at the track it gets worse. AWD is a little more foolproof and it's easier for a novice driver to get a good lanch. On a higher powered RWD car, if you over do it, you're just going to go up in smoke.

cuteguy1414

iTrader: (1)

I MOST DEFINITELY AGREE! Give the TL-S the respect that it deserves for its achievements on the track instead of calling it an " entry level sports sedan" . I can see why Manual Transmission went berserk..lol..

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

^lol, yea. I hope they can have more professional tests on different tracks!

Ken240sx

I agree with you that the awd/4wd vehicles start having issues around the 9 second area...have you ever seen wheel hop on them...it's disgusting

Anyway, what I don't agree with is that they are easy for a novice driver...about half hte people yo come across on the street will run 14's in their sti's purely because they don't know how to launch awd...it's a little trickier than rwd. It's really easy to bog on a launch with awd.

I hate cars

The guys that run around here that I've seen let them sit on the stock rev limiter and dump the clutch when the light goes green. It seems pretty brutal on the drivetrain. The smarter ones use a 2-step.

What I mean about RWD being trickier is that once you spin, you're probably going up in smoke. I guess AWD has the opposite but just as bad of a problem.

The trick I've learned with mine is from a roll on the Hoosiers, I have to just nail it to the floor. If I try and ease into the throttle, I usually get wheel spin. It's hard to remember because it's just the opposite on drag radials. An AWD up to a certain power level wouldn't have this problem.